Submitted by [deleted] t3_127jtik in personalfinance
[deleted]
Submitted by [deleted] t3_127jtik in personalfinance
[deleted]
We were dating before they moved in, I perhaps didn’t make that clear! Or perhaps you mean the set up makes us roommates..
Right, "technically" you're dating a roommate. My old-school thoughts - A makes enough to pay for house and utilities and should until you're married. Its A's house. B can help with food and other consumables. If B wants to help with mortgage, more than welcome to.
I'd be nervous to buy a house together without being married. This is coming from someone who doesnt have a seperate account. Every account my wife n I have is shared. I can't imagine any other way but I know people make it work.
Partner B could just pay what rent is considered fair, given that it's not a typical renting scenario. If partner B rented a similar house with a roommate, what would they expect to pay?
I second this approach-- I'm not trying to "make a buck" off my partner, but could they find a similar situation for less than what they're paying if we split even a bit different, like 60-40? In my country, they completely could not, so partner pays me equivalent of 50-50 "rent" and I take care of 99% of repairs/improvements.
Not being on the mortgage shouldn’t matter. They’d be renting from someone else if not from them.
Only time I’d see it be a problem is if the owner is trying to make a profit off the other.
If the end goal is to get married (not sure I’d sign a 30 year commitment without it), then would it really matter if “owner is getting equity and I’m not!”?
You are confused because you didn't decide what your plans and lifestyle will be for the long term.
Decide this and the financial questions will answer themselves.
But you could also find out that you have incompatible visions, finances have this nasty habit of not allowing you to remain in denial about such possible incompatibilities.
On one hand it's whatever works for you.
On the other A owns the home and pays all bills, repairs, taxes, insurance and B pays 50% of market rent on the home.
Utilities are split down the middle.
If A wants to reduce the charge because the home would otherwise not be B's pick or because they want to eliminate the 'profit' portion of rent to be affordable that's fine but justifying any lesser s[;ot charges because of income is silly. I don't pay less for milk because I'm poor. Why would I pay less for rent?
Right, but if your romantic live-in partner of 4 years who you might even marry, had more milk than they needed, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to give you some of their extra for less than you'd pay at the grocery store? Shouldn't that partner WANT to share their extra? I'm not saying the lower earner should get a free ride, but in a loving partnership, you should want to share your standard of living as much as possible and not end up in a scenario like "Hey honey, let's go out to dinner" "Sorry, I can't afford that because rent is due this week." True: if B was living somewhere else, they'd have the same issue. But the difference is, it's within A's control to level the playing field. Why wouldn't a loving partner want to do that?
See paragraph 1. Whatever works for you.
It's an emotional arrangement first that needs money (like all things) to function. If you're comfortable at a different level of support/contribution great.
I'm not trying to have the romantic inclinations of a wet sponge but this is a finance sub and not a relationship one. It's sort of like seafood; you can't put your finger on what makes it right but when it's bad you both know.
Well, I guess if B did have a house now but they lived in that house, A wouldn’t like the idea of essentially renting when A already owns a house, so trying to make it as fair as possible
Combining 2 homes into 1 would be hard. You'd be moving your life into another person's space and that would require a lot of communication and financial arrangements that are too nuanced/emotional/personal to have any logic from a financial side.
Joint account at separate bank each partner contributes what is needed to pay all the bills (including mortgage) plus $100 - $200 monthly. This should cover utilities, cable, groceries, etc.
Partner A "charges" rent to Partner B at FMV or FMV less a "Partner" discount. This may work out where A is paying 65% or mortgage and B is paying 35% more or less.
If partnership continues and A sells the house then of course, the proceeds could go toward the new house. At this point all money becomes "our" money. How to to spend and how much to save is a joint decision.
If partnership ceases then B leaves and joint account is closed. Remaining funds could be split equally or a portion gifted to B based on the percentage of mortgage covered by former "rent" agreement.
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Maybe look at what the place rents for and ask partner B to pay 35% of what the place would rent for?
What we think is irrelevant.
What the two of you decide when you sit down and talk about it is what matters.
IMO partner B pays a rent amount that both feel is fair to cover both any rent and a portion of utilities that are included.
But the two of us can’t decide the fairest way! B is happy to pay 50/50 taking everything out of the equation, but A thinks perhaps that’s not the fairest way to do it given some of the elements involved (higher salary, mortgage not joint) … so we’re looking for a wider opinion to help decide best way forward!
>But the two of us can’t decide the fairest way!
Because fair means different things to different people in different contexts.
And we cannot decide for you how you see your partner. Could be a traditional arrangement where in the long term one of the two earns the money and the other does the household. In that case usually, you would go for community of goods (excepting preexisting wealth, inheritance and gifts received but including new income and capital gains also on preexisting wealth)
Or could be roommates who hookup but live separate lives at the other extreme. then don't share wealth, but we cannot tell you.
> B is happy to pay 50/50 taking everything out of the equation
then do that.
find a similar house that's for rent, and partner B should pay approximately half what the rental cost is as their housing expense. they are a tenant, and should pay what a tenant pays.
other ongoing bills (utilities, cable/internet/TV tax... that's a thing in the UK IIRC?) should be split 50/50, or based on income, whatever they believe is fair for their relationship.
I'd do it like this:
Mortgage and utilities split 65/35. All other bills (food, subscriptions, etc) split 50/50.
Well, a 5050 split is obviously the most fair, but I'm in a similar situation where I make about twice what my partner makes and I our split is about 6633 because thats what she can afford and I want to live in a nicer place. We were doing 5050 when we lived in a cheap one bedroom apartment though.
A key thing for both to remember is mortgage is the minimum amount the owner has to pay. Think new roof / repairs/ decorating / insurance etc. Rent is the maximum that you have to pay.
Also if the house was paid off with no mortgage still paying rent would be fair.
Personally my view is: c25% of FULL market rent. (Likely more than half the mortgage) 50% bills Joint Discretional spend (holidays, meal out etc) split as per post tax income ratios.
With house owner to pay for all household unexpected bills.
With a post marriage split to be more about having financial goals and evenish discretional spend (with highest earner having more to reward the hard work, and potential extra costs of more senior roles)
Personally I've always done the split based on income with my significant other. If you're planning to use the equity on the existing home for the purchase of the new home then both parties are contributing to that building of equity. Yes, there has to be a component of trust in there, but unless you refinance the existing home in the name of both parites, there will not have any concrete certainty.
If Partner A pays the mortgage and Partner B pays the bills that would be fair. Also Partner B should buy the groceries to even things out a bit.
Partner B should pay 25% of gross income (or 33% of net income) to Partner A as rent.
Fairness is subjective. She currently has none of the legal or financial risk. None. Talk it through and just make you're not actually losing money. It's also about perception. If someone pays part of the mortgage and utilities may easily think they're a contributor, but what about property taxes, insurance, the risk attached to it all, etc???
You do whatever works for y'all. If you're not married or very certain you're going to get married, I wouldn't put someone else's name on any titles.
Partner A is going to own the house and pay the mortgage whether or not they are dating and no matter where the date is living. Offering to have their date live with them doesn’t change anything financially except it saves Partner B from paying housing costs. Even if Partner A normally has a renter, I doubt the renter shares the same bed with their landlord.
If Partner B wants their own room in the house, then determine fair market value of that room and sign a lease agreement. That way, if the dating suddenly stops, then Partner B isn’t also suddenly homeless.
The other financial aspects of dating won’t change. Partner B has their own expenses for utilities, cellphone, groceries, and personal care. Most couples do this on a casual basis such as, “I’ll pay the electric bill this month” or “I’m going to the grocery store, do you need anything?” Partner A continues to pay for all house related expenses because they were going to pay for those anyway.
In the meantime, Partner B saves their housing budget. As mentioned above, they are at risk for suddenly finding themselves homeless so they might need that money.
So you guys net 7200 a month, bills are 1600 a month. I would personally do it income based so maybe 600/1000 bc i like even numbers but you guys arent living paycheck to paycheck. Either one of you could comfortably afford the whole thing so just choose whatever you are comfortable with. But seriously if this is causing a hiccup you should be on relationship advice. It would be different if the expenses were taking up somebodys entire paycheck but yall are doing just fine.
Where things get bothersome is home maintenance and improvements. That’s equity responsibility. So I believe one has to determine if B is equal to a roommate paying rent; in which case, the financial burden and yes the fun decisions are A’s to make. Then utilities. A should provide the past years usage and payment. Can the increase be attributed and paid by B? Then food/chores. And as any good attorney would ask A, would you feel differently if B won the lottery?
B’s name is not on the mortgage, the utilities etc so is losing credit proof needed should B move out. Say, A dies? Basically a roommate agreement would work. A needs a written agreement so it’s easier to evict. I’ve thought of this stuff, not as a love interest, but an actual roommate. What’s the fair rate? Roommates.com will show places rates in your area. I hope that’s net income and both are contributing to their retirement funds. Also, B needs a better job, maybe more education or certification.
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I was in this exact scenario. My now-husband already had a house he purchased when we started dating. When I moved in with him after a year, we split mortgage + utilities by income %. A few years later we bought our own house and got married, so I didn't feel bad about giving him equity on the old house, as we rolled it into our new house together.
Firstly Partner A is already doing very, very well and B is doing very, very, very well. It's an awkward one, because when you're married you can view your finances as combined. There is no objective answer to this, personally I prefer treating each other like equal roommates. It is not enough to say "if fine" "I don't care", you both been to positively sit down and talk this through, talk about your values re: money, housing, expectations and responsibilities. Did either of you grow up with values to do with taking care of your partner, or looking for someone who will take care of you? Is B genuinely happy to subsidise A bearing in mind a 2:1 split in As favour of total housing costs of £1600 is effectively the same as B paying ~£300/month to A.
Was A renting out a room in the house before asking B to move in? If B moving in caused A to lose that income it seems fair to charge some amount of rent (although it should have been decided when B moved in, not 4 years later). BUT If A was paying the mortgage beforehand without planning to rent part of it out, maybe it's a little opportunistic to try to gain monetarily from living together? In that case, I would aim for a contribution that feels like an amazing deal on housing to B and a small perk for A instead of going for "fair" since this isn't the same as just being roommates. Maybe B pays all or most of the utilities? That way if you break up, B won't feel resentful for contributing to equity they won't retain and anything that B did pay is just gravy for A. If you do get married, it might not matter practically anymore, but things like this can cause lingering hurt feelings.
Where is marriage in this scenario? You gave a timeline of 9 years together but no date on when the marriage would take place, which would solve all these issues. Other than that, the most equitable would be % wise, but nitty gritty stuff like that causes friction.
The owner of the house determines what fair rent is. Probably not 50% of the mortgage but if you're actually going to get married eventually then it won't matter anyways.
Splitting anything based on income hardly makes sense.
The rest is relationship advice, in terms of how you agree to split things. The fairest, healthiest way when married is 50/50 split unless 100% certain agreed not to for a variety of possible reasons.
But what if for example B is currently earning less because a new job was just taken and A encouraged them to take it? That’s why we’ve also considered the income based approach - so both are fairly impacted by the change in salary and not just B
Yeah, this is all going to be relationship-based. You can do the market based rent and have of utilities thing for a regular roommate, but with the relationship and the adjustments and commitments one makes to each other based on said relationship add another dimension to the question.
> But what if for example B is currently earning less because a new job was just taken and A encouraged them to take it?
that's a relationship thing, not a finance thing.
Then you've already worked out what's fair and probably no point in asking here.
"I'm ok with you making less" is directly followed by "And here's how we'll agree to cover costs".
If the owner of the house decides to offer a discount to market-based rent, that's going to depend on their overall assessment of the situation, and income change doesn't necessarily change anything about the situation (although it might, and probably would in this case.) Suppose one of the couple didn't have a change in base income, but did receive a huge inheritance. Then what?
Ordinarily if you rent, you don't take the landlord's income into consideration in terms of what you are willing to pay.
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terzaghi10 t1_jeeensl wrote
This stuff always gets weird when you're dating your roommate. Talk about it and decide what would make both of you happy. Marriage seems like it solves all the problems.