Website for HOA payments clearly states a $3.25 fee, but has been charging me 3.25%. Is this worth fighting over?

Submitted by Melodic_Language_890 t3_zzt16f in personalfinance

I pay $220 a month for a sucky HOA. The website specifically states a $3.25 even fee for paying via Echeck, which I’ve been doing for the past few months. It has been charging me 3.25% instead which comes out to around $7, when it first started doing this I figured I had paid by debit card by mistake which does have the percentage fee but I went back and checked all my receipts and they confirm I paid by echeck. I emailed HOA who then emailed the company who runs the website who replied “We do not see where the website says $3.25” (even though it is right there on the payment page) and is denying a refund.

I’m pissed about this, even though it’s not that much money. I thought about just subtracting the total from my next HOA payment but I’m wondering if it’s worth fighting over this. I asked the HOA to provide me with a number to call.

Any advice?

727

Comments

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mt06111 t1_j2ddqzj wrote

Take a screenshot of the message that says it.

917

Ilivedtherethrowaway t1_j2dy3yu wrote

Then draw around the bit that says $3.25 with a red outline and a big red arrow pointing at it. People only see what they expect to see, sometimes you have to make it obvious

452

DeathTacos t1_j2e0ekj wrote

In advertising we call this a BFA (Big Fucking Arrow). Sometimes you get done with a design concept and the client says something like, “I don’t know. Our message should pop more.” Slap a BFA on there and call it a day.

Open up newspaper ads (if newspapers still exist) and you’ll be amazed at all the BFAs being used.

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Rustled_some_jimmies t1_j2e1mdn wrote

Truth... Look at damn near every trending YouTube video thumbnail. It's insane how many arrows there are. I cant stand it.

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PM_ME_UR_POKIES_GIRL t1_j2e2uq6 wrote

Shocked face on the right, icon or image that hints at the topic of the video on the left with a BFA pointing

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jabba-du-hutt t1_j2e5ox3 wrote

"What's wrong with my wife's body image?" BFA and circles with shocked hubby on thumbnail.

The couple vblog then is them talking all about something else never even mentioning her body image. Sigghhh

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hutacars t1_j2e7r60 wrote

And a title that gives no clue as to the video’s content whatsoever.

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ggouge t1_j2e9v8z wrote

I stop watching youtubers as soon as they start using clickbait titles. Because i know their content is about to take a nose dove.

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TheMartinG t1_j2eaivs wrote

I hate the “shocked” faces and refuse to watch any video with one in the thumbnail.

80 percent of the things I search on YouTube shouldn’t require a persons face at all

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thegroundbelowme t1_j2e9rpk wrote

I do a lot of UI design, and every now and then there’s a need for a very similar approach: the Big Fucking Button. 90% of your users not noticing the little “start here” link after setup? Sounds like you need a big fucking button!

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YesICanMakeMeth t1_j2eaqxk wrote

I've noticed a lot of time I'm using something and I think "man this interface is shit" it's because all of the buttons are the same size. I'm looking for the button that does whatever the primary purpose of the program is and subconsciously expect it to be big. I use a lot of niche software made by like 3 people (none of which are UI designers) so it's a recurring theme.

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comicidiot t1_j2e4ee2 wrote

u/Melodic_Language_890, you should also run it through the Internet Archive so if they quietly update it to 3.25% there’s at least a record of the $3.25.

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surftherapy t1_j2e6fi5 wrote

Guarantee you they’re getting someone to rewrite the page as we speak to say 3.25% instead lol

31

[deleted] t1_j2e7wqb wrote

[deleted]

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0fficerRando t1_j2e8kpv wrote

This is for "echeck" which is ACH, a free service. Echecks commonly have a fixed fee because the processor doesn't charge based upon the amount.

6

techcaleb t1_j2e8xz6 wrote

Ah yeah, I missed the last where it was ACH. Disregard.

2

-tired_old_man- t1_j2e7mhi wrote

Seriously, it probably took OP longer to write this reddit post than it would have been to send a screenshot with his original complaint letter.

This is a typo, not tyranny.

Don't attribute to malice what could be attributed to stupidity.

The person answering support email probably has no control over the software used to manage the content of the website. The fact they can't find the typo also shows they are kind of dumb and careless at their job.

5

iranisculpable t1_j2dh2iz wrote

Attend the next HoA meeting to complain

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DazeyHelpMe t1_j2dzeaq wrote

This! Maybe talk to your neighbors and ask them hey I noticed on my hoa bill….. is it the same for you? And maybe get a handful of people to come to the meeting.

114

CivilMaze19 t1_j2e329u wrote

Attend meetings in general if you have a problem with what they’re doing. So many people willingly buy in HOA areas, don’t attend meetings, then wonder why nothing changes.

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iranisculpable t1_j2e443n wrote

Ultimately the only way to force change is to be on the HOA board. It is fairly easy to join the board if state regulations required fixed terms and elections. Usually you end up in by default.

Once in the board, for something like OP’s issue, a director can ask the property manager why is there a discrepancy and if the answer is that it should have always been $3.25, the director can make a motion to require the property manager to refund the excess fees and a separate motion to stop collecting the excess fees.

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azvnza t1_j2e6rgo wrote

Or even still, be friends with the board and be vocal in the meetings to push your issue along. You dont have to be on the board to get things passed, especially if other people in your community feel the same way.

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s0n0fagun t1_j2ebsnc wrote

You are assuming the HOA is profiting from this transaction. Refunding the fees the payment processor made in error will come from the HOA reserves and not from the payment processor. The board needs to engage the payment processor to get to the bottom of this but the CCRs will need to define what an excessive fee is.

3.25% is not that excessive for a credit card procesing fee. The OP could try a different form of payment like a check or a bank transfer.

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Only1alive t1_j2eb2h8 wrote

I went to 6 HOA meetings over 5 years.

Two of the meetings they cancelled without saying anything due to people on the board not being available.

The other four? We couldn't vote on anything due to either missing 2 of our 4 board members, or not enough home owners showing up (likely due to the meeting time being at 5:00pm in a weekday, not allowing kids, and cancelling last minute all the time without warning).

Since we couldn't vote, the board members were allowed to make decisions FOR us.

One of the votes were for new board members...

The board member that we were voting to remove didn't show, which prevented us from voting them out.

They did that for 2 years before enough people complained, and we got a whole new management company and board members, then the cycle repeated again, only this time, they raised condo fees by $50 a month every 6 months while also removing services.

They ended up claiming that all the costs went to snow plowing, until someone requested the receipts and did the math. The numbers were way off, and it was found that the new manager was increasing rates and pocketing the cash.

So glad to be out of the place.

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_BearHawk t1_j2eb8zd wrote

Join the hoa board and then work to disband it

3

NorthImpossible8906 t1_j2e8gzn wrote

Yes, or just call someone on the board right now.

Thing is, it is probably a typo. They'll just change the website from $ to %.

I'm not sure there is a leg to stand on legally in recouping any money. It may be stated as a percentage elsewhere, or on the contracts, in the covenants, etc. The fact that you paid it several times may indicate an agreement to that cost.

Couple comments, $7 (or 3$) seems ridiculous to be charged to pay a bill. There should be a better way to pay it.

On "Crappy HOA", all financial statements are available, and you can probably download them all right now from their website. The fact is, there are costs involved living in a neighborhood. Much of mandated by law. You need a reserve fund, you need insurance, you need to maintain property. It's pretty much unanimous that everyone complains about HOA costs, but for most of them, they are as bare bones as legally possible.

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bendover912 t1_j2e6o6f wrote

You should attend the meetings anyway, but it doesn't seem necessary for this. Screenshot your evidence and send it to them in an email with a request for the refund.

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UKnowWhoToo t1_j2dgva9 wrote

3.25% for echeck is robbery. The bank the HOA uses doesn’t charge them that high of an amount for ACH debits. 3.25% makes sense for credit card payments due to credit card processing fees, but I’d be willing to accept $3.25 for an echeck since the HOA mgmt company is probably paying ~$1 for each transaction.

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OutlyingPlasma t1_j2e1eys wrote

> credit card processing fees

aka, the cost of doing business. When did it become acceptable for business to pass on every expense as a separate fee hiding the real cost of a product or service?

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e28dc wrote

My property management company charges a $50 rent processing fee every month like it takes teams of people to get my money electronically

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TinCupChallace t1_j2e2ozj wrote

Unless it was disclosed in the lease, it's not legal

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e45et wrote

I already tried to take them to court because they failed to disclose an active cockroach infestation that I discovered the first day I moved in. Spent $400 on consulting fees for three different lawyers who all told me the same thing: in my state the property management companies basically write the laws and pay teams of lawyers to the extent that it would cost me far more to fight it

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ThePretzul t1_j2e917l wrote

Mandatory fees not disclosed in the lease are an open and shut small claims court case in all 50 states in the US, with the property management company themselves paying your filing costs in addition to the amount they’ve illegally charged in fees (with some states tacking on additional punitive damages for good measure).

That said they’re allowed to charge fees for various “convenient” forms of payment. Mailed or hand-delivered cash or check are always fee-free unless otherwise specified in the lease (and fee-free regardless of what the lease says in most states which require at least one fee-free option to pay rent).

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e9tul wrote

And then the property management company doubles my rent to the point that I have to move out because there are zero laws against it here. So now I'm stuck looking for another rental in my kids school district but now every time a rental company does a background check for a history of evictions they see I had a civil suit against my previous landlord so I can't find a new place to live in the 30 days I have to move.

No thanks. Not worth the $600 I'd get back from the bullshit fees.

0

themoslucius t1_j2e4jqa wrote

My building's payment portal charges $75 if I pay by card. I never once used it and have my rent check mailed in via my bank. They rolled out a new app for paying as well, similar fees - didn't even install it.

Don't pay rent in wonky ways. They can supply an address for snail mail and there's no fee

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Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2e9osl wrote

The really funny thing is that it costs them a LOT more in labor to process a physical check that it would an electronic payment.

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nivek_c t1_j2eb01o wrote

even with my current landlord who is by far the best landlord anyone could ask for (completely absent but SUPER responsive when texted with an issue, only raised rent 1% per year), I still mail in checks via certified or priority mail and send her the tracking number ahead of time. Costs me like 2$ in postage, i can live with it.

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S_204 t1_j2e7fb2 wrote

So you pay by cash or check right?

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fuck_all_you_people t1_j2e7vt5 wrote

No, electronic xfer from a checking account.

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sold_snek t1_j2e8me5 wrote

He's saying you should start paying by check. If they're going to charge $50 for making it easier to pay, then use checks and make them have to drive to the bank or have to scan and submit each check.

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[deleted] t1_j2e96ft wrote

[removed]

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ThePretzul t1_j2e9ksi wrote

Most states require a fee-free payment option to be available by law, and you absolutely can mail a check to their business address to pay your rent. Send it via registered mail and retain the receipt, the company cannot claim that rent was unpaid or they didn’t receive it because you then have proof of payment that is valid in all 50 states.

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dclxvi616 t1_j2eavbx wrote

Certified mail w/ return receipt requested is so much cheaper and faster than registered mail and offers similar proof of mailing and delivery. It's a rent check not some kind of irreplaceable item.

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HotPoblano t1_j2e1p8n wrote

When card brands increase rates and offer rewards cards that cost the merchant even more money to accept.

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OutlyingPlasma t1_j2e1xfy wrote

Food vendors raise rates all the time but no one would pay a 3% food cost recovery fee when visiting a restaurant. Its the cost of doing business.

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Spiritual-Chameleon t1_j2e2gjf wrote

But many restaurants now ask for tips for takeout orders, which feels like the same thing. We're not paying our employees enough with the prices we've established, so pay more please.

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LurkBot9000 t1_j2e2xi8 wrote

Paying their employees should be included in the cost of doing business but theyve outsourced labor wages to the customers as a charitable donation line on the bill. Its pretty fucking sick IMO

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UKnowWhoToo t1_j2e4z5t wrote

I dunno, it helps filter out bad waitstaff pretty quickly. But I don’t think poor performance of a job should be paid the same as high performance, which I know is counter to Reddit culture.

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Spiritual-Chameleon t1_j2e5zd3 wrote

There are some studies that found that tipping isn't necessarily related to quality of service

Edit: interesting to see down votes. Here's an excerpt from academic research; "other studies have failed to find a significant relationship between tipping and service evaluations (Bodvarsson & Gibson, 1994; Crusco & Wetzel, 1984; Lynn, 1988; Lynn & Latane, 1984; May, 1978)"

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstream/handle/1813/72354/Lynn46_Tipping.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwib86qX76T8AhUpK0QIHSohC1UQFnoECAYQAg&usg=AOvVaw3nkAIqOaefKJ32GoQqU7a7

And from the Freakanomics podcast:

"Lynn’s research shows that tipping is an unfair way for workers to be paid, because personal characteristics like a server’s race, gender, and appearance factor too much into customers’ tipping decisions."

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-does-tipping-still-exist-ep-396/

−1

TacoNomad t1_j2e6b4z wrote

I bet it filters out good waitstaff faster than bad. Anyone who is decent but relying on customer attitudes to pay the bills will go find something that pays steady.

−1

chism74063 t1_j2e5ouo wrote

I noticed tip jars showing up in fast food restaurants at the end of the COVID restrictions. It is like they are saying "COVID didn't shut us down, so we deserve a tip."

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nyconx t1_j2e2srv wrote

Many of the local chain restaurants are switching to forcing customers pay this fee. You would think they would benefit more to not have to deal with handling cash to make up for this. I think they can start to get away with it because we are at the tipping point where people do not carry cash much anymore.

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TacoNomad t1_j2e655c wrote

Increase prices to cover the fee. Offer discounts on cash payments.

1

PissOnYourParade t1_j2e368v wrote

Large ticket items like rent and (especially) condo/hoa fees you want 100% off the funds to flow through to the budget.

I encourage you to participate in your board. You'll get a sense of the ramifications of 3% haircut off the budget.

Commercial stores and such have higher profit margins (and batching deals with the cc processors) such that they pay less in fees and have more "room" to eat the cost as a way of getting you in the door.

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i_am_out_of_pie t1_j2e6cf9 wrote

Restaurants don’t itemize it as a food cost recovery fee — they just raise their prices sometimes to compensate. All costs of doing business are ultimately paid for by customers.

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imsoawesome11223344 t1_j2e2rns wrote

...are you under the impression that restaurants don't raise their prices when food costs increase?

0

zeiandren t1_j2e3m0i wrote

Raise the PRICE not keep the price the same then confuse it with add on fees

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Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2eamm9 wrote

One reason to do it as an add on fee is if they believe the prices will come back down. Reprinting menus with different prices for what they believe will be temporary is an unnecessary hassle/expense.

2

HotPoblano t1_j2e4drp wrote

I've seen images of some restaurants adding line items for "supply chain issues," etc. Plus, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I see why some merchants might do it, especially if they don't see a drop off in business.

0

DiCatto t1_j2e5yus wrote

>Food vendors raise rates all the time but no one would pay a 3% food cost recovery fee when visiting a restaurant. Its the cost of doing business.

They just lower the portion sizes, get rid of expensive ingredients, increase prices, or all of the above.

Any cost will be passed down to the customer. Including the "cost of doing business". The problem is when the cost is not disclosed upfront. If I am buying a $12 burger, it's a $12 burger. Period.

0

zuzununu t1_j2e3yw2 wrote

I bought a plane ticket earlier this month which the base cost for the ticket was $50

But there was an extra fee for using the overhead bins: bringing a carry-on is considered an extra.

I think it's so they get higher on Google flights when you sort by price

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TacoNomad t1_j2e6n3i wrote

Those are discount airlines that offer you a low fare. If you're traveling with no luggage, it's a good deal. If you fly other airlines, some of those fees are included. Often when you do the math on the cheap fare plus bags and carryon fees, you pay the same or more than booking with the other airlines. It's their business model.

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HoweHaTrick t1_j2ea1m6 wrote

People don't do the math and then complain when they are suckered.

It is human nature to assume all other aspects of price comparisons are equal, but this world is full of "gotchas ".

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ollydolly t1_j2e49s7 wrote

We implement our cc fee for customers on transactions over $3k. Up until that point, we consider it cost of doing business. We notify anyone trying to pay a large invoice with a cc that there will be a fee, and that if it's not acceptable, they are free to pay other ways. Nothing shittier than finishing a big job and realizing hundreds of dollars are being deducted from it for the cc processing fee.

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HoweHaTrick t1_j2ea9tg wrote

Yup. When I have a job done I'll just write a check if it costs more to charge.

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TacoNomad t1_j2e5tkt wrote

When they do this, they should offer free ways to pay. Like check or cash

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Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2eaxpj wrote

In many states if the goods or service is essential they are required to offer a free way to pay. Ironically the free way often costs the recipient more to process than the card processing fees would.

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dickie99 t1_j2e86y0 wrote

If a business doesn’t list it separately, it’s already being factored in to the price

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fargothsrevenge t1_j2e9op6 wrote

They always have done this. A smart business would just build it into the price so you don't notice.

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UKnowWhoToo t1_j2e4gys wrote

I think it’s fine to share costs of payment acceptance and I actually prefer it. But by sharing those costs you may make me realize that you’re not honest in your information OR you’re poorly researching your payment providers to have competitive vendors, which is indirectly costing me more money.

For example, vehicle registration can be done by cash or check with no additional fee (that level of detail can be difficult to compute for government agencies) but credit cards have the merchant service fee passed to the person making the payment.

Those who aren’t making the “cost of business” more expensive since they’re paying by cash/check get to also pay a smaller amount.

I’d like to get a % off when I use Apple Pay since last I read there’s a 2% processing fee vs the more common 3%+ for visa/Mastercard.

0

Notwhoiwas42 t1_j2ea4at wrote

>Those who aren’t making the “cost of business” more expensive since they’re paying by cash/check get to also pay a smaller amount.

Except that the entity receiving payment has higher costs in processing and accounting for cash/check payments that they do on funds received electronically.

0

mmomjian t1_j2ea4ob wrote

Interchange rates are set by the banks and card issuers. Apple takes a 0.15% cut of Apple Pay transactions, they are not any cheaper to run.

0

OathOfFeanor t1_j2e5tba wrote

All costs of doing business are passed on to the customer, that's where the business gets their money from

You are actually arguing for less visibility because you just want them to increase the cost of the item so you don't know how much of it goes to the ripoff payment processor.

0

Annonymouse100 t1_j2de5sl wrote

Fighting no, clarifying and working to update any indescrepencies, Yes! This is your association, you are a part of it and third party management is accountable to the homeowners and the board. The HOA can have a huge impact on your property values and the overall desirability of the community. Get involved, ask for clarity, work to get the documentation or website updated. Lawsuits or even just the management costs associated with working these out in an owner by owner bases come out of your pocket.

281

ExPorkie15 t1_j2dojll wrote

Yeah this. They say they don’t see it? So provide the screenshot of it to show them which page has it, then see what they say. Chances are you are not the only home owner getting overcharged. Or in the end they might just update the website to say 3.25% in the future and say the $3.25 was wrong.

Nothing wrong with making a small push to clarify but certainly not a hill worth dying on in my option.

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scottstedman t1_j2e646h wrote

> The HOA can have a huge impact on your property values and the overall desirability of the community.

Just tacking onto this for an affirmatory personal anecdote; the condo complex I live in has been in pretty desperate need of repairs for about a decade now but the HOA board has continually put off the repairs and projects in favor of keeping dues low because they didn't want to pay for it. Now that the chickens have come home to roost, the repairs are badly needed and we are faced with a massive special assessment that is hurting resale value to the tune of almost a hundred grand per unit. It is truly staggering, shocking incompetence on the part of the board. We are selling to leave the state as we're in a high COL area and will still be able to afford a nice house elsewhere with the sale proceeds, but having the value cut by almost 20% because of the board's incompetence hurts a lot.

Hold your HOA accountable for every penny you can. Even your $3.50 overcharge.

6

Accomplished_Tour481 t1_j2dndzv wrote

Stop paying online. Mail a physical check for the HOA fees. An HOA cannot force you to pay a specific way (i.e. online by a certain method), and then charge a processing fee.

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brightfuckinorange t1_j2duakv wrote

Building on that, you can probably set up Auto-Pay through your bank instead of the HOA’s platform and your bank will automatically mail the HOA a check ever month. My HOA charges a $2 e-check fee so I do this to get around it.

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ftrade44456 t1_j2dwvhn wrote

This is definitely what should be done. Muuuuch easier, no fees of any kind.

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themoslucius t1_j2e4x1n wrote

Same here, my building charges $75 payment portal fees. I snail mail a check through my bank... No fees

3

hamartia7514 t1_j2dymen wrote

This is how I got around the silly payment fees without having to worry about forgetting to send a check monthly.

OP: I recommend using bill pay from your bank if at all possible!

7

NoRace5075 t1_j2e43gz wrote

Had to scroll too far to find this. Fees are theft, pay none, stay woke.

5

dougola t1_j2dwvgz wrote

I do this, and I'm the VP of our association. In April I time-out on eligibility to serve. Those fuckers in he neighborhood can fuck the fuck off then. It's a thankless job. We've put so much money in their reserve to cover future repairs and all they do is bitch about how much the dues are. We've had all the streets re-paved at a good 15% savings, street lights updated to LED's, power generator added to the lift station to keep it working during hurricane, storms, power outages, and still, they bitch about how the lawn guy scalped their yard on time. I'll be going to the meetings and hold the new board accountable.

2

techcaleb t1_j2e84gi wrote

Yep, this is what I did when renting a place that charged a fee for ACH.

1

shastaxc t1_j2e9g6v wrote

Yeah definitely an option. However, some banks still charge a fee for this kind of service so it doesn't necessarily save money. Also, they it usually do not account for due dates and if the mail doesn't run on certain days, then arrives late, you can still be penalized by the recipient with late fees. So if you do auto-pay by mail, definitely schedule it to send 4-5 days early.

1

bigpipes84 t1_j2dremf wrote

It's always worth fighting an HOA.

75

halibfrisk t1_j2e2scv wrote

It’s always worth ousting the current board and taking over the running of the HOA yourself so you can be the target of everyone’s complaints.

Unless there’s egregious neglect or mismanagement the main thing to do is to be glad some other fool is doing the tedious and thankless work of running the HOA, (or the sports club, or whatever org you are part of with a volunteer, unpaid board.)

7

sold_snek t1_j2e8z1i wrote

> the main thing to do is to be glad some other fool is doing the tedious and thankless work of running the HOA

Yeah I'm sure they're doing it out of the goodness of their heart and not because they benefit in any way.

−1

geekinkc t1_j2e1p3d wrote

This ^^^^^

On behalf of another resident that was being fined to the tune of $3400 for an unapproved tree planting. I called them all “petty little bitches” in a meeting. A few gasps, but even more applause…. They are now a much more realistic organization.

Always fight the HOA……

1

crazywidget t1_j2dpbd6 wrote

It’s not robbery, it’s technically fraud. Technically you have the grounds to dispute the charge as unauthorized.

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cubbiesnextyr t1_j2dzbzb wrote

Which if you do then you're just making yourself as being late/behind on your HOA dues. Not exactly a solution.

7

crazywidget t1_j2e3d4v wrote

Totally a solution.

NOT paying AT ALL would make you late. Disputing a misrepresented / unauthorized charge is totally legit. See you in small claims court is totally ok here.

What are they gonna allege? You’re late because…they said they’d charge you X and actually charged you X + Y?? Since it was FRAUD, no judge is gonna side with them.

6

lucky_ducker t1_j2dsjjo wrote

> I thought about just subtracting the total from my next HOA payment

That's a good way to bring on late fees, and eventually a lien on your house.

Just be a gadfly, and bring it up every year. Then, when you're ready to move away, sue the HOA in small claims court for the damages. Keep records and screenshots.

40

ry1701 t1_j2dh45d wrote

Fighting yes, unlike the other response. HOAs, specifically the property management side of things are scum and they don’t impact property values like people claim too, especially in the housing market today.

I would simply respond back, with screenshot, stating that the posted fee structure and what you are changing is not correct. This is not an agreed too transaction cost and you wish for it to be remedied with a refund and a correction in the communicated fee structure.

There’s also the scotch earth approach which my dad has taken before and actually lowered HOA fees for a 10k home community over excessive fining by the property management company.

No remedy? Contact board

Boards and useless? Run for president.

Fire property management company.

19

trekologer t1_j2e1qxm wrote

> Fire property management company.

This would be the ultimate F.U. to the management company. "Oh remember me? The person you kept gaslighting? Not only are you fired but we're suing you for fraud to recoup the excess fees you charged our members."

3

ry1701 t1_j2e63ab wrote

My dad has done it. Twice in two different communities.

2

ABetterKamahl1234 t1_j2dzt83 wrote

> HOAs, specifically the property management side of things are scum and they don’t impact property values like people claim too, especially in the housing market today.

I see people say this, but houses in my suburb (which are all similar 5 designs), if they try to sell on the street of the guy who doesn't manage his property at all causing a rat issue, are dramatically lower value than my street is.

So it really can matter. Not everyone cares for their property, and that certainly can affect the value of yours.

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Paavo_Nurmi t1_j2ebdcz wrote

>So it really can matter. Not everyone cares for their property, and that certainly can affect the value of yours.

It can also be the exact opposite like my neighborhood.

I live in a really nice neighborhood but only a small part of it is in the HOA. The houses outside the HOA are more desirable and it's actually a major advertising point the real estate agents use. You can't tell the difference between the HOA houses and the non ones.

People vastly overstate the value of an HOA to a neighborhood. Where I live it does nothing for property values and in some cases actually hurts the value a bit. I'm not allowed to remove any trees and people really don't like the risk and mess they cause. The guy across the street from me had over $250k in damages from trees and finally told the HOA to fuck off and removed all of them. If I moved 2 houses down there is no HOA and I could do whatever I want to my property, including removing trees.

I'm sure there are places like you mentioned where it does matter, but if you are in an area with a strong housing market they do absolutely nothing.

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ry1701 t1_j2e6k6u wrote

That’s where the city can step in for extreme situations which is what you listed

A 100+ HOA fee is going to discourage buyers and cause a decrease in value.

The city has actually contacted me cause one of my palms branches decided to cross the side walk.

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wildlywell t1_j2dzyrm wrote

This is actually an enormous problem for the HOA and you could successfully press this, including through a law suit. Do not just withhold money from your next HOA payment, though. That will lead to enormous problems for you even if you’re right about this.

All that said:

  • Convenience fees are usually a percentage not a flat fee. So someone probably screwed up the website.

  • it’s very possible the convenience fee is paid to the bank or payment processor, not withheld by the HOA. So they might not be stealing from you.

  • In theory, the HOA is a non-profit coalition of your neighbors. So you should give some leeway for honest mistakes.

So, what I would do is figure out whether they keep the convenience fee or pay it to a third party. Just ask them—you’re entitled to know as an HOA member.

If it’s paid to a third party, I’d advise them to update the website and eat the 3% if you can afford to., or ask for a discount on next months fees if you can not (don’t just unilaterally deduct it—that can cause YOU lots of problems). If they keep the fee, then I would ask for a discount in next month’s fees regardless.

Also keep in mind that many HOAs, especially for larger communities, have a hired manager (who often sucks) and a board of homeowner directors (who often but not always suck less). If you don’t get anywhere with the manager, go to a board meeting and talk to the directors. That’s what the meetings are for.

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ahecht t1_j2e2uin wrote

> Convenience fees are usually a percentage not a flat fee. So someone probably screwed up the website.

All the bill pay services I've used that charge a fee have a percentage for credit card payments and a fixed fee for eCheck.

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LordofRaddishes t1_j2dktfd wrote

I would think this could be grounds for a charge dispute from your bank. Show a picture of the dollar fee to bank as well as the reciept. In addition show that the HOA or payment company dont see this. The bank should rescind the whole transaction. Then just fight with HOA about the payments.

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junktrunk909 t1_j2dzir5 wrote

You wouldn't want the bank to undo the transaction just to then be responsible for giving a paper check to the HOA for the same amount minus $3.50 or whatever. Or at least I wouldn't. The best course of action here is for OP to be more clear about exactly what they're seeing (screenshot and URL) and to demand the HOA refund the overpayment. HOA will comply if OP is showing them evidence and indicating they're willing to go to court for it with that same evidence. OP would win in court but only if they actually follow through and sue soon after HOA refuses. Not suing and continuing to use the service anyway could indicate to the judge that they understood the actual fee to be whatever was actually being charged rather than what the website says. Personally I wouldn't bother suing over $3.50 but that's up to OP.

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cubbiesnextyr t1_j2dzgob wrote

And pay all the late fees associated with not paying your HOA dues? I'm not sure what you think that accomplishes.

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Veteris71 t1_j2dz4e9 wrote

An HOA? By all means fight it. They would probably harass you to no end and threaten you with dire consequences if you underpaid by a few bucks.

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MyOtherSide1984 t1_j2e7f62 wrote

HOA's are such trash. I've lived in 3 places with them and they either wholely suck and are against you, or they don't do shit and you wonder what the fuck you're paying for. First place I stayed I was confronted multiple times for the "smell" in my garage (I was working on my car and the smells were gone in hours). My current place, the neighbors leave their trash cans out all week, park in front of their garage (we have a shared alley as our 'front door' very confusing), let there kids scream outside and throw rocks from our porch and they're well know as "that" neighbor on our block. HOA doesn't say shit

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DirectGoose t1_j2dyyyx wrote

Send them a screenshot of the website.

Then have your bank send them a paper check each month. Most banks offer this service for free and you can set it on auto pay. (This is how I pay my HOA for the same reason.)

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kveggie1 t1_j2dos9e wrote

A sucky HOA is because the actual homeowners do not take interest in it. I suggest to get involved, join the board, volunteering, becoming treasurer, help with budgeting.

So, get on it.

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shill1963 t1_j2dy7q0 wrote

Always take a Screen shot of a website before you tell someone their websites states... The reason for this is because they can simply go change it. And I would argue it with them, file a complaint with the housing authority in your area if they refuse to make it right. Make it public, there maybe many more people in your HOA that have been overcharged. But do not spend to much effort on it, as there are more important things to do in this short life we have.

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Thatoneguyonreddit28 t1_j2e29mg wrote

Hi there, I work in payments here and this is very common. The logic behind charging payments is a literal drop down option to charging “actual” verses “percentage” unit amount. I’ve made this mistake multiple times and although very unacceptable for some people, it’s unfortunately common and part of human error, there’s hundreds, to thousands of merchant accounts each with their own unique pricing. Because of this, it must be eyeballed.

Not saying they’re not intentionally screwing you, but just that it happens, and it could be reversed.

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mocha47 t1_j2dhmof wrote

Oftentimes you’ll see language for either or or lesser of. I’m guessing that may be what applies here. Start with a question, you’re more likely to get someone to help you out than if you come in hot

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orangewarner t1_j2dsliv wrote

I get on every board I can to combat this type of thing. I'm almost a professional board member now lol

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mfball t1_j2e239d wrote

It just sucks that somehow you're supposed to find the time and energy to become a part of a board you may want nothing to do with, just to keep them from exerting undue power over a really essential part of your life.

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GetCookin t1_j2dqln3 wrote

You should absolutely fight an incorrect charge. You should also post about it in the public portal for your hoa so other members going after management about fixing it. We don’t get charged anything for using direct debit.

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snoopy369 t1_j2drlj1 wrote

If they’re charging the same fee for both credit card and ACH, then it’s simple - use a credit card with a good cash back percentage. Citi 2% or whatever.

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anthro28 t1_j2dxurq wrote

HOA

There’s your first problem. Second, yes it’s worth fighting over. That’s your money. Don’t give it away for free.

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Fromanderson t1_j2e0d6i wrote

$220 a month!?! Unless they have some amazing common amenities or take care of all your lawn care and such you're being robbed regardless.

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Flashmax305 t1_j2e672d wrote

Not that uncommon. HOAs where I live are 400+/month

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techcaleb t1_j2e8csq wrote

It really depends. If it's a condo or townhouse with shared walls and roof then that's about average.

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OutlyingPlasma t1_j2e0ybn wrote

How are you suppose to pay without a fee? An e-check is the same as a normal check and has a fee, credit and debit are both charged at 3.25%. I'm sure they don't take cash because places like this seldom do.

What form of payment don't they double dip with? I say go to the HOA meeting and raise hell.

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pawnman99 t1_j2e5cl5 wrote

Stop paying by Echeck.

I have several bills that insist on a "convenience fee". So I make them process a physical check for free. Sucks for me, sucks for them...but I'm not going to pay more to make their job easier.

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niz75 t1_j2e8hep wrote

The website is not the Document of Record. You’ll have to check the HOA documents that you signed when you purchased your property to see what they say, then you’ll have to check any documents signed by the board that may be hosted on your HOAs website, and then if you find nothing about it there the website could be considered the document of record.

I bet whoever is authoring the website just mistyped something so work with them to get it updated.

Keep in mind that the people running HOAs are usually older retirees who aren’t tech savvy. Having a website at all is a big thing to them.

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Joggyogg t1_j2eb4bn wrote

How does an HOA benefit the home owners at all?

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Inthewind69 t1_j2dqc7g wrote

Yes say something, why let them keep the money you work hard for. Plus if they are charging everyone 3.25 % they are making money off all of you. Its just not right...

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[deleted] t1_j2ducjz wrote

[deleted]

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pheasant_plucking_da t1_j2e1ka4 wrote

It seems like the state of denial. This person doesn't share any evidence of their allegation.

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advertentlyvertical t1_j2e7uje wrote

Why would they share information that could potentially identify them just to satisfy a few moronic redditors that call the most mundane things fake because they never leave their basement.

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ekkidee t1_j2dvmaq wrote

Why not use your bank's bill-pay system to auto-issue drafts every month. Schedule them for issuance 7-10 days before the first of the month.

Even if you prevail in resolving $3.25 vs 3.25%, you're still stuck paying a fee using their bullshit portal.

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[deleted] t1_j2dwpvc wrote

Take a screenshot as others have said. Search for "snipit" on your computer if you're unsure how

As others have said then just start mailing them checks

The expensive hoa is annoying in itself but 3.25% "processing fee". That's bs

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[deleted] t1_j2dzxuw wrote

[removed]

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ElementPlanet t1_j2ee2py wrote

Please note that in order to keep this subreddit a high-quality place to discuss personal finance, off-topic or low-quality comments are removed (rule 3).

We look forward to higher quality posts from your account in the future. Thank you.

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81632371 t1_j2e13kv wrote

Wow, my HOAs never charged a fee to process. ACH saves late payments, gives cash flow predictability, and saves them the wages of whomever processes the check deposits. So the bank may charge an ACH processing fee, but it's less expensive than having an employee depositing checks (wages+employment taxes+benefits). This fee is just a revenue generator for them.

I'd set up a bill pay through your bank (if it's free) or mail them a check (the stamp is still cheaper than the fee). Just to force them to eat the time and expense of processing that check.

I'd go with the screen shot fight, but if it doesn't work, don't withhold your payments. The ramifications aren't worth it. Eat it and move on.

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mfball t1_j2e1mlt wrote

This is where you get together every single person in your building/neighborhood/whatever that's subject to these same fees and let them know that for however long they've lived there, they've been getting overcharged x amount due to this fraud being perpetrated by the HOA. Sure, you might feel like the dollar amount isn't that much to you, but it's still money that rightfully belongs to you and not the HOA per their own rules, and it certainly adds up when you multiply that by every person paying it. I'm not a lawyer, but wonder what threshold it would need to reach before y'all would be able to file a class action suit. If it's a big HOA management type company on the backend, how many other people might be getting hit with these same bogus fee overages? It's worth fighting this and it's worth seeing how far it goes because HOAs are fucking evil.

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johnnyg08 t1_j2e1n8c wrote

Easy. Take a screenshot. It's either there or it isn't.

And that's WAY too high of a fee for e-check.

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Topher_86 t1_j2e2m11 wrote

Firstly, attempt to send a check from your banks website instead for no fees.

Secondly, it’s likely an issue with their payment processor and their front end. Either someone selected percentage when they meant dollars or vice versa. Continue to highlight the error to them.

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Such-Education t1_j2e2qnw wrote

Yes, the HOA would come after you if you were giving them less than the stated fee and would probably charge you a late fee on top of it.

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SynbiosVyse t1_j2e39ht wrote

Most HOA meetings have an open forum at the beginning if any stakeholders are present. Just go to the next meeting, don't be bashful.

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Nigredo78 t1_j2e3nb4 wrote

become the president of the HOA, Dissolve the HOA..

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kawklee t1_j2e3wyj wrote

The advice will differ by state but generally some of the people's advice here is sound. I work in condo / hoa law.

Check the paperwork, get screenshots and evidence of the terms. You can send in a document request to your HOA which (most likely under your state statute governing HOAs) as to be responded to within a certain amount of time. Compile your proof. Bring it to management company attention. Inform them of mistake. They do nothing? Go to meeting, bring it to board attention. They do nothing? Contact am attorney.

Many HOA statutes have prevailing attorney fee provisions for winning parties. This means even if the dispute is low value in terms of money, many attorneys will take the work on contingency. There will likely be presuit obligations to resolve the dispute and hopefully avoid needlessly escalating costs. If they're doing this to many residents, it could rise to a class action claim.

Don't do a charge back. Don't do some sort of withhold. Just pay and provide lots of notice about how they fucked up

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Anthropogenic_Noise t1_j2e4ok3 wrote

First and foremost, send 'em a screenshot of the text you referred to on their website. In addition, the extra 3.25 should have still been added to your account, so even if your next payment is the normal payment minus the extra 3.25 of the last few months, you should still be paid up properly. Double check that with them though.

Also, please dont do things like a charge back, like someone recommended below. If your HOA is like mine, you end up with a lien on your house.

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anotherfakeloginname t1_j2e50mx wrote

Definitely tell them. But you need to save screen shots of the website before they change it. Keep the evidence

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billyvnilly t1_j2e5x3i wrote

Send a screenshot with a big red circle around the '$3.25' and the words, 'lawyers love red circles'

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TenorHorn t1_j2e6i0e wrote

Fighting no, correcting, yes! Expectations of honesty are important!

On that, if money was being improperly used, errors like this often reveal this

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Xianio t1_j2e794n wrote

Get it fixed but while you're doing that do try and remember that this could have just been an oversight. HoAs are often just a collection of people from the neighborhood. It may be very easy to fix if you come in with that mindset instead of assuming malice.

Everyone has heard the terrible HoA stories. But just assuming you're in one would be a mistake.

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OathOfFeanor t1_j2e7pil wrote

You have no legal grounds to dispute the monthly HOA dues regardless of other ongoing disputes. Do NOT subtract the amount from your monthly payment or your account will become delinquent and eventually sent to collections, where they could eventually foreclose on your home.

Unfortunately, in most cases, your HOA is a couple levels removed from the payment processor. Your HOA is required by law to have a licensed manager, so they outsource that to HOA management companies who employ these licensed managers.

Your HOA is most likely small and has no leverage with these HOA management companies. These companies exist solely to leech off HOA-related fees in exactly this fashion. They won't be changing their business model due to your complaint.

Now, you obviously have ways to avoid the fee such as paper checks and other inconveniences.

You might be able to recover past funds via small claims court with evidence of the inaccurate website.

But if you want to actually eliminate it, your only option is going to be to:

  • Find another management company that does not charge the fee (these fees are pretty common in this industry though)
  • Get other homeowners on your side and try to fire this current management company
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AltOnMain t1_j2e8tit wrote

Aren’t they going to fine you for shit like keeping your garage doors open for too long and not bringing in trashcans fast enough when you are at the hospital with childbirth?

Hell ya, I would send them a bill.

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HoweHaTrick t1_j2e9g6d wrote

I'd walk to the office with cash.

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cryptoanarchy t1_j2ea4v8 wrote

Why not pay via a regular check from your bank account mailed as bill pay?

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Sea_Cheesecake_1814 t1_j2eaxmz wrote

Do not under any circumstances, deduct what you think you’re owed by your HOA. You put yourself at risk for failure to pay as required = late fees, etc. etc. etc.

It definitely is a high fee to pay a fee but not unheard of. My HOA charges $3.25 per transaction through their portal. I set mine to be drafted from my bank account instead on the due dates. It accomplishes the same thing but no fees.

Definitely talk to your HOA board/president and request a reimbursement. Most board members are reasonable and will help you.

Also, it’s to your advantage to at least attend annual meetings and be involved with your HOA. Less surprises and conflicts.

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appendixgallop t1_j2ec3pt wrote

You have to rely on the legal documents you agreed to when you bought the place. Those are filed with your county, if you don't have a copy. Then, you need to read the minutes of the meeting when this was put in place, if you didn't attend that meeting. That will tell you what your legal obligation is, not some third-party website.

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DAWTSF t1_j2e476w wrote

HOAs are not really a big thing where I live, but $220 PER MONTH?

What all does that that go towards? Is this just a pay the mob fee?

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OFP03 t1_j2e8e4w wrote

Don’t pay the HOA what are they gonna do send a mob of old ladies to your door?

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