Submitted by Safe-Pop2076 t3_ywaef0 in pittsburgh
Does anyone else here work upmc and hate it? Anyone else watch them fill the departments with travelers that they are paying extremely high wages to and you just get to keep coming to work and acting like nothings wrong?
I think that the original poster was referring to "traveling nurses" or "traveling healthcare workers." Some hospital systems and nursing homes "resolve" staffing shortages by paying large sums of money to staffing agencies for healthcare workers who are on short term contracts. These healthcare workers, referred to as "travelers" make a much larger wage than the permanent employees, but the staffing agencies also pocket a great deal of money from the transaction.
I am not a healthcare worker, but from what I understand, the practice of using "travel nurses" significantly increased during the beginning of the Covid pandemic.
Probably referring to travel nurses? If so, they’re hired guns that serve as contractors and get pairs way more than a standard employee to do the same job.
Ahhh, gotcha. Thanks
A good bit of them are also terribly under-qualified, fresh out of a two year certificate program granted by an online for-profit unaccredited "school" and sell Younique make up or doTERRA essential oils on the side.
Source: I currently live in Butler County, which churns these "nurses" out like cheap underwear from China.
Left them about 5 years ago. I'm now making 230% more than I was and my life is far easier. (Granted my position was not clinical, but I'm far happier now that I'm out)
My friend did it years ago right out of college and paid off her loans in a couple years.
Upmc sucks. They pay shit. I applied there, got an offer, but it was a little less than what I was currently making, for a higher level role. I countered and they increased their offer a few k more lol and their reasoning was basically I couldn’t be making that much more than the current employees. Lol that sounds like a “them” problem. Needless to say I did not accept the position. For finance though, not nursing.
Irish Travelers are a thing. But not in this context
UPMC you mean U PAY ME CRAP
I don’t recommend doing their internal travel. I left Upmc to do agency travel, one of my friends did their internal program. The pay seems nice (85$ per hour) but they tax the shit out of it, you don’t get to pick which hospital they send you to, you’re only at each hospital 6 weeks before they can move you again, and for housing stipends, you get a 1 time stipend that they tax. So after everything you still only come out making about the same as staff.
Are the tax rates not the same for all traveling nurse companies?
The more your hourly rate is the more you pay in taxes. The money travelers make comes from their untaxed stipends. For instance, I’m at a hospital now where my hourly rate is 40$. About what a normal seasoned staff nurse would make out of state. However, I get housing stipends every week that are completely untaxed because I’m technically paying to live in 2 different locations (my actual physical house in Pittsburgh that I pay for and the cost of my rental here in Philly). UPMCs internal travel does not do weekly stipends, it’s 1 time for the entire length of your stay at 1 hospital. Which is why it’s a rip off and better to just do agency travel.
Been with UPMC for 4 years now and don’t know how I’ve made it this long. Finally started filling out applications so I can get out before I go crazy
damn sick story
14.66 to 18.76 is crap?! Compared to my previous job (at Giant Eagle) making less then 10 dollars an hour, that's MONEY MONEY
I'm about to get a job there, but at Northwest in Seneca PA
I'm about to get
A job there, but at Northwest
In Seneca PA
- helloiamaudrey
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Fuck UPMC
I'm a contracted worker at UPMC. Been here for a year now. Looking for other jobs....lmao.
With all due respect to retail workers, I can’t imagine the chaos and bullshit UPMC workers (or any healthcare workers for that matter) have to deal with on a constant basis is worth a minor pay increase over stocking shelves and bagging groceries…and I know first hand working retail is hell.
When I started my first job at UPMC I spoke with the person who was training me, who had been there for 5 years, and they were making 15 cents an hour more than me. When I later accepted an internal promotion the starting pay was offered at about a 30% increase from where I was but UPMC wouldn't allow that as their cap for promotions is 10%.
UPMC is not interested in retention or they would offer more than a 2% yearly raise. It's a huge slap in the face to the lot of educated and driven people who are worth the wages.
Every hospital is doing the same thing right now
Ok, I'm not going into tax's, as of course you pay more in taxes on $85 an hour than $40. However, it's the same tax rate.
For a $40/hr job to make more than an $85/hr, your stipend would need to be ~$1800 dollars every 2 weeks. Which I am assuming it's not.
I mean highmark ahn ceo made 8.64 million according to the tribune review so maybe AHN has more $ to pay employees now? Kinda interesting no one is screaming about that pay rate .
??? I’m a traveler based out of this area and don’t know what you’re talking about lol.
I left 5 years ago and have worked for AHN and two other travel companies. The sad thing is they're all the same - will pay employees as little as they possibly can while still somehow keeping them willing to come in to work. Also, all hospital systems are slowly taking away ancillary staff and putting that work onto the nurses.
UPMC is especially disgusting in that they claim to be a "nonprofit" and they don't pay property taxes despite being the second-largest (as of 6 years ago when I started there) employer in Pennsylvania.
Oh and I almost forgot their blatant union busting - I would attach an article but there are several instances, just Google "UPMC union busting". They're willing to get caught for this over and over again and pay the fine every time because they know the fines cost them less money than unionization would.
It probably is. When I worked as a traveler in rural Pennsylvania, I officially made $18 an hour and got a weekly $900 stipend. So yes, it's significantly less in taxes.
Not sure why you got downvoted - this is just some very basic info about how being a travel nurse works. Have my upvote!
$10/hr and $14-$18/hr are both crap salaries. Neither of those is enough to sustain a person anymore, hasn't been for a long time. You can have suffered bad wages and still recognize other people suffering bad wages. We're in this together.
I am afraid we have all become immune to obscene CEO pay since it touches every industry, and because we think it has always been that way - and it hasn’t. CEO pay has exploded 1322% from 1978 to 2020 according to epi.org.
All else being equal (e.g., dependents, both W2s not independent contractors), their tax rate probably went up slightly. At $40/hr, they'd be in the 22% bracket with a effective rate of 17% and at $85/hr they'd be in the 32% bracket with an effective rate of 21%. This assumes they are working 2,080 hours in a year and ignores all other tax factors.
That's only federal taxes, but if someone wanted to double my wages for a 4% tax hike, sign me the fuck up.
And let's not forget all tax brackets are marginal. So both people still pay the SAME amount of taxes on the SAME amount of money.
Someone making 40,000 a year pays exactly the same amount of taxes on 40,000 dollars as someone making 80,000.
If you make 40,001 dollars and the cutoff was 40,000. Only a single dollar is taxed at 32%, the 40,000 is still taxed at 22%.
My sister is currently a “traveler” at a UPMC hospital. Makes way more than she would at her home base hospital. I don’t blame her for wanting to make a decent paycheck so she can pay her student loans off and pay down her mortgage.
UPMC is the largest landowner in Allegheny county to the tune of 1 BILLLION dollars in un taxed property. And I believe their profits were something like 12 BILLION in 2022.
The city really needs to strip them of their non profit status. Also AHN, Pitt, CMU. . .
Why do we put up with this utter bullshit?
Absolutely correct. My effective tax rate captures that, but I didn't word my tax bracket clearly.
My last boyfriend used to beat me and cheat on me, but my current boyfriend only cheats on me so he’s a great guy.
This is what you sound like with that garbage.
Look I live with my mother so it's better
You are correct that $18/hr is objectively better than $10/hr.
You are, however, not correct that it’s good money. Until recent history, people could support a family on a grocery store cashiers wages. Now, without your mother, or if you had no family then 3 other roommates in a shit apartment, you couldn’t support yourself on those wages. Never mind a family.
I assume you mean the Highmark CEO. There is no way any executive at AHN makes that much.
Regarding CEO pay at non profits like UPMC and Highmark, I'm conflicted. Each of these companies generate ~$25 billion in revenue per year. This is more than McDonald's ($23.2B). The CEO of McDonalds makes $20m per year. The UPMC ($10.4m) and Highmark ($8.6m) CEOs make significantly less (plus no stock options). If we want the best talent at these companies, shouldn't their wages be comparable to other industries?
The other question is whether $8.6m is a reasonable amount for any CEO to make let alone $20m. Rising executive pay is concerning to say the least, but it helps to have some context within the world of executive pay.
>UPMC is especially disgusting in that they claim to be a "nonprofit" and they don't pay property taxes despite being the second-largest (as of 6 years ago when I started there) employer in Pennsylvania.
I don't understand this point. Can a nonprofit not be large?
>The city really needs to strip them of their non profit status.
I get why UPMC is a terrible employer and I support efforts to fix that, like unionization and better regulation. But I don't get what that has to do with their nonprofit status.
1st, love your username lol.
UPMC is this region's largest corporation. They should be paying their taxes same as any other local corporation.
I'm pointing this out just to further illustrate how awful they are in the context of the discussion of UPMC sucks, lol.
And to be completely fair AHN, Pitt, and CMU are also in the same boat when it comes to flagrant abuse of non profit status. They should all be paying taxes. Full stop.
I totally agree and yes it was Highmark , my bad . It’s nuts
Less about size more about the fact that they make a profit and their c-level executives make millions per year.
All good. I've always wondered why UPMC faces the brunt of the internet hate. Beyond a few differences (upmc is mostly provider with a small piece in insurance and Highmark is opposite) there isn't a big difference between the two. Only major issue I have with UPMC is how they played chicken with Highmark insurance and the Children's hospital.
It means they don't pay the taxes that they should.
Also, it gives them a more positive reputation. Typically when someone hears "nonprofit", they think of charitable organizations. But UPMC is the opposite of a charitable organization.
Non-profits are absolutely allowed to "make a profit" in that they can bring in more money than they spend in a given period. And of course they should be able to do that - think how hard it would be to run an organization if your expenses had to always match your income.
What nonprofits can't do is take those profits home in the form of dividends. They have to be reinvested in the organization.
Being a nonprofit also has absolutely nothing to do with the salaries of executives. I think there are good reasons those salaries shouldn't be exorbitant, but it's not related to their nonprofit status. It's not the "charity" sector where qualified professionals should be expected to take a pay cut.
Should all nonprofits pay taxes? Why should these nonprofits pay taxes and not others? Does it have to do with size?
Why are you bootlicking for an enormous corporate entity? One which has shown repeatedly though it’s actions how little it cares for the residents of this city, this state, and their own employees lmao.
Get the boot out of your mouth and try looking at this objectively. From a taxpaying citizens point of view.
Please point to an online, for-profit, unaccredited school that is turning out RNs who are passing their boards.
I’ll wait.
They're not non profits
They're making profits in the BILLIONS. And they are not giving back to the community on the order of billions, are they?
That's the justification for not paying taxes. . .they give back to the community. But they do not.
There is a trend in less urban areas where girls who averaged Cs in high school and know they can't cut it in a real nursing program like Duquesne offers instead get "certified" for nursing through online courses and do their clinic hours under the supervision of burned out RNs in second rate hospitals.
These are the types of ladies who get sucked into MLMs and often use their "consultant" knowledge of essential oils as a form of healthcare as well. These are the people who post about 12 flower tea, colloidal silver water, and borax infusions on FB and they are typically antivax because of the Big Pharma Boogeyman while personally benefitting from the healthcare machine along with the occasional nurse developing a pesky opiate addiction.
I'm not talking about RNs, I'm talking about LPNs and CNAs.
I'm just explaining why people don't like UPMC's non-profit status. Not saying it's why they shouldn't qualify for it.
https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/upmc/
https://makeitourupmc.org/upmc-a-real-charity/
Here's a couple good breakdowns. Specially love the 'but does a real charity..." section
Yes, we know they're not supposed to held to a strict standard where they break even.
But their profit margins are massive, seemingly excessive, and where is UPMC reinvesting the 12 BILLION into the organization? Certainly not in the staff payrolls.
Development of additional tax free properties throughout the city? The US and abroad?
Research? I'm not going to get started on how grant indirects work, the amount of tax money that's wasted in research, or the fact that UPMC is very tight fisted with research support.
Health insurance relief?
Do you have a better idea as to the answers?
Lol thanks idk why either, just answering a question
Pardon my confusion.
Bro. . .
Back in 2012:
"UPMC is a global health enterprise worth more than $10 billion and is sitting on more than $4 billion in cash and investments.
"UPMC made nearly $1 billion in profit in 2011 (see note 6 on page 12) and 2012 but gives less than 2% back of its annual patient care revenue in charity care.
UPMC has shut down and scaled back operations around Allegheny county, like in hard-hit communities like Braddock. At the same time, it’s investing millions overseas in places like Italy, Cyprus and Singapore"
How does UPMC qualify for non profit status? Why cannot US Steel, PNC, PPG, Alcoa, Amazon qualify for non profit status?
Leslie Davis has entered the chat.
Nonprofits simply must reinvest any profits back into their organization, rather than give them out as dividends to owners or shareholders. US Steel, Alcoa, etc, do the latter, so they aren't nonprofits.
I believe there's also some kind of requirement for nonprofits to spend a certain amount of money on community benefits, which is broader than just charity care. I don't know if they adhere to that rule or not.
I'm not bootlicking - just trying to understand this issue better and trying to correct misinformation about what being a "nonprofit" does and doesn't mean.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂
i worked for upmc in a non clinical role. our supervisors treated us like shit (“your job should be your number one priority” to coworkers with sick kids), and the pay sucked.
That’s not what nonprofit means at all.
I work at UPMC and they are scummy, but this is wrong.
That’s untrue. You cannot get a nursing degree online or somewhwre unaccredited and you can’t travel as a new grad.
You missed the part where I never said anything bad about travelers.
You also missed the part where I directed my ire at UPMC
These “nurses” have taken a licensing exam? RN or LPN NCLEX exams?
It's almost always just LPNs, I personally do not know any RNs on this level of blithering idiocy. The NCLEX exam only requires a little more than 50% correct answers for their exam. And I'm not shitting on nurses, I promise, but I did a "prep" test once to prove a point to someone and I passed it easily, I'm an engineer. I don't know if the standard for testing has always been so low but it is now and it's terrifying to be honest.
You take the nurse training courses online and get an associates in Science, then go do so many clinic hours and eventually sit your test, which the NCLEX only requires a little more than 50% correct answers to be licensed. And idk about that new grad not being able to travel thing, my neighbor finished back in May and she's on the road.
You have to attend a program approved by the state BON to sit the NCLEX, and the NCLEX is an adaptive test that requires a significant body of knowledge to pass.
And no reputable company will hire new grads to travel. It’s so rare (and hugely unsafe) that I’d question your neighbor’s story.
I didn’t miss it, just seemed like travelers were getting blamed too. They’re part of the solution, not the problem. But sorry if I misinterpreted!
Obviously it’s because if you are willing to travel, you must want to actually work, unlike floor nurses.
/s
I worked there from 2018-2020 & absolutely hated it. They don’t want to pay their employees livable wages & there’s a lot of toxic/micromanagement. I will never go back 🙂
Yes, and many of those programs approved are offered through for profit career training centers and online schools. Like, a lot of them. Just because the program is approved doesn't always mean it's a good one.
And I'm sorry, but the NCLEX is not difficult. I did a prep NCLEX once to prove a point and I passed it, Im an engineer.
I’m not saying you cannot study and pass NCLEX. I’m saying that knowledge is required. Also, every “practice” NCLEX test I took was not close to the actual NCLEX (which I did pass easily, I’m just saying they weren’t great approximations). NCLEX has very little to do with actually being a nurse. Nursing school is very regulated. If the schools are approved, there are certain standards they have to meet. Some are better than others, but nursing is largely learned on the job.
Do not belittle a profession you don’t well understand, please. You think you understand a lot more than you do, it is very clear.
Where did I belittle the profession? I'm not belittling anything. I'm calling out the fact there is a problem with current nurse training and certifications/licensing/whatever. If you cannot see the current issue with healthcare and this army of nurses who have no business being in the field and the fact the nursing shortage has been capitalized by career training centers and a 51% correct answer rate on their licensing exams, I can only assume you are part of that army and cannot see your own contribution. Every respectable RN I've ever come across has mentioned this exact same issue. Ask any of them yourself.
I am not saying there are not issues to be addressed, as there definitely are. However, you don’t seem to actually understand how deeply disrespectful you are being to the field, which is a shame.
Are you fucking kidding me?
I have every right to be disrespectful to a field that's falling short, which my life may depend on one day. Just because you're a nurse doesnt make you a god. You aren't a hero, you are paid to go to work. If you weren't paid, you wouldn't go. Heroism is a selfless act for humanity, my insurance premiums and out of pocket costs that go toward paychecks and the profit machine of healthcare doesn't make anyone in that field a hero. It's makes them a paid employee. Expecting the nursing field to be viewed through a lens of reverence is laughable. It's a necessity, like garbage men and postal workers. Someone has to do it, and they need to pay their bills.
I engineer integral pieces of equipment used in your labs, equipment that's used to save lives. I develop them. Am I a hero? Nope. I'm a manufacturing engineer who gets paid to use my brain to make things happen.
??? I never said anything about hero or reverence. I do deserve basic respect, which you do not display.
I don't know you other than the fact you work in nursing. Are you crappy nurse? I have no idea. But your vehement defense of these low bar nurses and insistence of my disrespect of you personally, well, if the shoe fits...
You should be just as angry as I and many others are of the deplorable state of nursing on the LPN and CNA level. This past year the company I work for has dumped thousands upon thousands into research and development to change our equipment and accessories of said equipment in order to "nurse-proof" it because this generation of nurses we have currently cannot operate the lab equipment previous generations were once able to use with ease. Your vendors of your lab equipment requested us to build our products in such a way a "10 year old child is able to use with ease and no confusion". You should be questioning why your colleagues are considered as adept at lab equipment as 10 year olds.
So do not tell me I do not know anything about the nursing field, I know quite a bit seeing as these people who supposedly have a vast and wide range of knowledge in order to pass their NCLEX cannot handle equipment I manufacture anywhere near the level of adeptness as nurses 10 years ago, to the point where my entire manufacturing process has had to change to accommodate them. My products shouldn't have to be dumbed down to compensate for their lack of knowledge and ability, there should be no handicap applied here seeing as people's lives depend on their adeptness.
pittbiomed t1_iwihjsa wrote
I believe they have their own traveler division , maybe that would be a job you would like ?