Submitted by LGP214 t3_zugp6g in pittsburgh
PJM (the authority that governs power generation between Chicago and New Jersey) is asking customers to conserve power through 10 AM tomorrow. If not, short rolling brownouts may occur.
Comments
AirtimeAficionado t1_j1jcb88 wrote
Most large and significant buildings Downtown generate their own power with the steam system, same with Oakland and portions of the North Shore. They are still a part of the same grid, but not necessarily drawing energy in the same way a traditional home does.
UnaffiliatedOpinion t1_j1je91i wrote
One could argue that all capacity should be used to keep homes and hospitals heated and lit. Then again, one could argue that that capacity only exists to keep these places powered when the rest of the grid fails, so they would just not build it if they won't be able to use it.
AirtimeAficionado t1_j1jem4g wrote
It’s also not as simple as just moving that power to homes, the capacity for distribution is also a factor, and sometimes there are limits on how capacity can get from point A to B. And the major hospitals, fortunately, are on the steam network, which is why they almost never lose power.
Snoo-35041 t1_j1jfy5c wrote
I don’t believe that is correct, and the downtown plant is closing down soon. They usually just generate heat, and most newer buildings, after the 70’s don’t use the steam plant, hence it shutting down in town. (And the damage from the last flood didn’t help)
AirtimeAficionado t1_j1jjkkz wrote
PACT is consolidating their operations with Clearview (the system on the North Side), it is not going away. Many, many buildings use the steam, and there is no real better energy solution as of right now. Most systems that use the steam system also generate power. Steam also powers the A/C turbine systems for most buildings. The only buildings that do not use it are the newest PNC towers, to my knowledge.
PGHENGR t1_j1mhbwu wrote
I’ve done HVAC design work in 20+ buildings downtown and I’ve never seen one that uses steam to generate electricity or A/C.
6nop_ t1_j1n5sg8 wrote
Duquesne University generates their own Steam to use for Electricity (4MW) , Heating, and Cooling. This video talks about their system, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKqR7_ZQRwY
PGHENGR t1_j1n6373 wrote
Yeah that’s a college campus, makes sense. It’s not economically feasible for regular building owners to do.
AirtimeAficionado t1_j1nq1rd wrote
I am almost 100% sure several buildings at Pitt use steam for HVAC turbines and power generation, as well as water and building heating. I just assumed it was the same downtown, but I could be wrong!
PGHENGR t1_j1nwn0a wrote
Yup Pitt does use steam for some of that. It’s just really expensive so you’ll typically just see it in sectors that are subsidized in some way. It’s definitely a cool idea it’s just not cheap b
Ntovorni t1_j1k7nau wrote
And the majority of them take part in demand response, which usually is in the summer but functions for this as well. Elevators, HVAC limited, etc etc.
PGHENGR t1_j1mgqhs wrote
Huh? They do not generate power through the steam. They use steam to convert to hot water and use the hot water to heat the building.
ktxhopem3276 t1_j1jp30v wrote
How do you know they are wasting more power than a million people living in the county? Think about all the people going to the game that are turning off their home lights. I think they are just reminding people to turn off unused items because it will save money on your bill and help the grid.
OneDwarfTwoSocks t1_j1jqdls wrote
I am not going to explain why our heat at home is a higher priority than the lights in a stadium. If we have the power to light up advertisements we have the power for my space heater.
ktxhopem3276 t1_j1jv5ra wrote
There is a game and people are not home so they can turn off their home lights to offset the stadium energy. Instead of blaming the shortage on something with the most visibility like the stadium we could harness’s the common effort of a million people to double check and turn off a few unused items
OneDwarfTwoSocks t1_j1jwe95 wrote
The stadium uses an order of magnitude more power than all the lights in all of the homes of everyone in attendance.
ktxhopem3276 t1_j1jygoh wrote
The average household uses 1500 watts an hour. An nfl stadium is around 10 megawatts or about 150 watts per fan.
OneDwarfTwoSocks t1_j1k7eor wrote
Are you under the impression that everyone shuts off their furnace and breaker when they leave their home? I'm blocking you now because you are either not acting in good faith or havent completed the fourth grade.
Wide-Concert-7820 t1_j1jxsva wrote
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ventorun t1_j1k110d wrote
So did the people attending the game turn off their heat and lights when they left the house?
ktxhopem3276 t1_j1k1hie wrote
I said they can turn off their home lights and I said nothing about heat. The point is that the stadium is just a popular punching bag for people to use as a distraction from doing the bare minimum of checking if they are wasting any energy.
fuckmelikeawh0re t1_j1khtg2 wrote
I don't think anyone was saying don't have Steeler games, most likely talking about the times the stadium is lit up when there are no events....................🤦♂️🤦♂️
Itsjustataco t1_j1kas1k wrote
It's fucking 7° outside. Fuck these guys. They need to build a better infrastructure.
LGP214 OP t1_j1kb1jk wrote
that’s what I thought too - but this is a non-profit responsible for interconnecting the different grids. The problem is that we’ve shed so much generation capacity but the loads are still the same.
Itsjustataco t1_j1kqw1x wrote
Is it a non-profit? I can't seem to find that information. I only briefly skimmed but it seems they refund excess deposits from ???. Makes me think the energy cos supply them and they build infrastructure for those companies?
Is this "non-profit" funded by the for profit companies? That would create a nice conflict of interest.
DQE is for sure for profit, which I find to be completely fucked. Mostly owned by Singapore.
Owners: https://www.duquesnelight.com/company/about/investors#undefined
Karma4Clunkerz t1_j1kz6z8 wrote
Non profits receiving funds from for profit companies are called donations, not conflict’s of interest
Itsjustataco t1_j1p97ht wrote
Not when the service provided directly benefits them, that is a service provider, a vendor. When their contributors are only a set of ten companies, how can a non-profit act independent of those 10 companies?
Karma4Clunkerz t1_j1sb3f2 wrote
Because they are a separate entity… and when a for profit company donates the assets have to be classified by the non profit depending on any restrictions donors may have, also non profit entities have multiple documentation requirements for both donors and vendors. I’ve audited non profits all over Pittsburgh if these things are missing or unreported we the auditors disclose that info and the non profit can lose 501c3 status.
ktxhopem3276 t1_j1klf6p wrote
It’s really expensive to build and staff a power plant that only runs on the coldest day of the year
James19991 t1_j1kvb4q wrote
I think maybe the issue is all of the holiday lights and displays people are using electric for that they aren't otherwise using in mid-January when if it does get this cold, it's more likely to happen than December. Not sticking up for them, just a theory.
chuck_mongrol t1_j1m2b4j wrote
Space heaters use a huge amount of power.
timesuck t1_j1j54cw wrote
The War on Christmas continues.
livefast_dieawesome t1_j1jic1g wrote
Well, I can’t. My boiler died yesterday and while they got it going three of our radiators aren’t producing heat and may have an ice blockage so I’ve got to keep space heaters trained on at least two of them until hot water begins to circulate in them again
DaKaSigma t1_j1jck0h wrote
I could be wrong, but based on the map and the links, I don’t think Duquesne Light is part of that. West Penn is, though.
LGP214 OP t1_j1jf9lo wrote
You are correct about that map but the PJM also manages Duquense Light - https://www.pjm.com/library/~/media/about-pjm/pjm-zones.ashx
TransporterOffline t1_j1jjefw wrote
Duquesne is part of PJM.
CharleyPDXcellent t1_j1je6js wrote
You are correct, I think. From the article "...follow FirstEnergy and its operating companies on Twitter: @FirstEnergyCorp, @ToledoEdison, @IlluminatingCo, @OhioEdison, @MonPowerWV, @JCP_L, @Penn_Power, @Penelec, @Met_Ed, @PotomacEdison, @W_Penn_Power." probably still a good idea though, to be a bit conservative with energy use for a few days.
astroidfishing t1_j1km2qt wrote
I am wondering what people would cut out to reduce power...? I mean I'm a pretty simple person so maybe others are doing more in their day to day lives but to me cut back on power would be like "stop watching TV and use candles instead of light fixtures" lol. Maybe people with really built PCs might wanna turn those off though.
GubbyPac t1_j1jf32d wrote
My hometown hasn’t had electricity since 2am. It’s now 4pm. I don’t know how they are managing. Thank god my fam has a wood burner. About 30 minutes from Breezewood.
janie3041 t1_j1jtivl wrote
Lol my apartment will go below freezing
falseidolofthecosmos t1_j1kv5ku wrote
How bout no? It's cold af. How bout these big corps turn off their shit??
SAR_and_Shitposts t1_j1m801w wrote
The Amazon warehouses are probably still open. The Steelers played last night. I’m sure the higher ups of the energy companies have their heat on full blast. This isn’t energy conservation. This is just hatred of the working class. “Force yourselves to freeze or we’ll cut your power.”
jirenlagen t1_j1kcxlg wrote
Hmmm let me think about it no.
penndawg84 t1_j1kmv2u wrote
The only “extra” thing I have on today is about 216W of Christmas lights. I’ll turn it off after UPMC and BNY Mellon turn off their signs.
Dapper_Target1504 t1_j1mb2w9 wrote
Sorry no, fix your grid infrastructure
Dapper_Target1504 t1_j1mba7k wrote
It’s almost like green no matter what is a mistake. Lets build more nuclear plants.
Deadtide13 t1_j1mhgvi wrote
This was my point exactly. I don’t own two teslas.
LE867 t1_j1moq1o wrote
Not today’s problem, but wait until it’s cold and everyone is trying to charge the electric cars while heating their homes.
domin007 t1_j1mpy01 wrote
Yeah, people are not going to use their ovens less for Christmas or turn down their thermostats when it's this cold.
213737isPrime t1_j1mua00 wrote
I turned down my thermostat *because* it's this cold. I can handle being a little uncomfortable until Tuesday in order to save some money on that gas bill.
KentuckYSnow t1_j1m8omy wrote
It means turn off your fucking btc rigs!
Deadtide13 t1_j1joahe wrote
Sorry. I went green and bought two teslas. Time to charge up.
ktxhopem3276 t1_j1jpf9l wrote
Can you charge overnight when the grid is less stressed?
cigarmanpa t1_j1jskqi wrote
If smart thinking was a strong suit of theirs, they wouldn’t have got two teslas
KentuckYSnow t1_j1kucj9 wrote
Or any teslas
SAR_and_Shitposts t1_j1m8jzo wrote
If you have two teslas, you probably make enough money that he rules don’t apply, so you’re good.
OneDwarfTwoSocks t1_j1ja009 wrote
I'm not shutting anything off until the UPMC sign on the steel building and the lights in the stadium are turned off. They're wasting wayyyy more power than we are.