The War on Christmas continues.

I'm not shutting anything off until the UPMC sign on the steel building and the lights in the stadium are turned off. They're wasting wayyyy more power than we are.

Most large and significant buildings Downtown generate their own power with the steam system, same with Oakland and portions of the North Shore. They are still a part of the same grid, but not necessarily drawing energy in the same way a traditional home does.

I could be wrong, but based on the map and the links, I don’t think Duquesne Light is part of that. West Penn is, though.

You are correct, I think. From the article "...follow FirstEnergy and its operating companies on Twitter: @FirstEnergyCorp, @ToledoEdison, @IlluminatingCo, @OhioEdison, @MonPowerWV, @JCP_L, @Penn_Power, @Penelec, @Met_Ed, @PotomacEdison, @W_Penn_Power." probably still a good idea though, to be a bit conservative with energy use for a few days.

One could argue that all capacity should be used to keep homes and hospitals heated and lit. Then again, one could argue that that capacity only exists to keep these places powered when the rest of the grid fails, so they would just not build it if they won't be able to use it.

It’s also not as simple as just moving that power to homes, the capacity for distribution is also a factor, and sometimes there are limits on how capacity can get from point A to B. And the major hospitals, fortunately, are on the steam network, which is why they almost never lose power.

My hometown hasn’t had electricity since 2am. It’s now 4pm. I don’t know how they are managing. Thank god my fam has a wood burner. About 30 minutes from Breezewood.

You are correct about that map but the PJM also manages Duquense Light - https://www.pjm.com/library/~/media/about-pjm/pjm-zones.ashx

I don’t believe that is correct, and the downtown plant is closing down soon. They usually just generate heat, and most newer buildings, after the 70’s don’t use the steam plant, hence it shutting down in town. (And the damage from the last flood didn’t help)

Well, I can’t. My boiler died yesterday and while they got it going three of our radiators aren’t producing heat and may have an ice blockage so I’ve got to keep space heaters trained on at least two of them until hot water begins to circulate in them again

Duquesne is part of PJM.

PACT is consolidating their operations with Clearview (the system on the North Side), it is not going away. Many, many buildings use the steam, and there is no real better energy solution as of right now. Most systems that use the steam system also generate power. Steam also powers the A/C turbine systems for most buildings. The only buildings that do not use it are the newest PNC towers, to my knowledge.

Sorry. I went green and bought two teslas. Time to charge up.

How do you know they are wasting more power than a million people living in the county? Think about all the people going to the game that are turning off their home lights. I think they are just reminding people to turn off unused items because it will save money on your bill and help the grid.

Can you charge overnight when the grid is less stressed?

I am not going to explain why our heat at home is a higher priority than the lights in a stadium. If we have the power to light up advertisements we have the power for my space heater.

If smart thinking was a strong suit of theirs, they wouldn’t have got two teslas

Lol my apartment will go below freezing

There is a game and people are not home so they can turn off their home lights to offset the stadium energy. Instead of blaming the shortage on something with the most visibility like the stadium we could harness’s the common effort of a million people to double check and turn off a few unused items

The stadium uses an order of magnitude more power than all the lights in all of the homes of everyone in attendance.

You are wonderful. I love your style. I have been looking for someone to fix up with my ex, and you are the ticket.

The average household uses 1500 watts an hour. An nfl stadium is around 10 megawatts or about 150 watts per fan.

So did the people attending the game turn off their heat and lights when they left the house?

I said they can turn off their home lights and I said nothing about heat. The point is that the stadium is just a popular punching bag for people to use as a distraction from doing the bare minimum of checking if they are wasting any energy.

Are you under the impression that everyone shuts off their furnace and breaker when they leave their home? I'm blocking you now because you are either not acting in good faith or havent completed the fourth grade.

And the majority of them take part in demand response, which usually is in the summer but functions for this as well. Elevators, HVAC limited, etc etc.

It's fucking 7° outside. Fuck these guys. They need to build a better infrastructure.

that’s what I thought too - but this is a non-profit responsible for interconnecting the different grids. The problem is that we’ve shed so much generation capacity but the loads are still the same.

Hmmm let me think about it no.

I don't think anyone was saying don't have Steeler games, most likely talking about the times the stadium is lit up when there are no events....................🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

It’s really expensive to build and staff a power plant that only runs on the coldest day of the year

I am wondering what people would cut out to reduce power...? I mean I'm a pretty simple person so maybe others are doing more in their day to day lives but to me cut back on power would be like "stop watching TV and use candles instead of light fixtures" lol. Maybe people with really built PCs might wanna turn those off though.

The only “extra” thing I have on today is about 216W of Christmas lights. I’ll turn it off after UPMC and BNY Mellon turn off their signs.

Is it a non-profit? I can't seem to find that information. I only briefly skimmed but it seems they refund excess deposits from ???. Makes me think the energy cos supply them and they build infrastructure for those companies?

Is this "non-profit" funded by the for profit companies? That would create a nice conflict of interest.

DQE is for sure for profit, which I find to be completely fucked. Mostly owned by Singapore.

Owners: https://www.duquesnelight.com/company/about/investors#undefined

Or any teslas

How bout no? It's cold af. How bout these big corps turn off their shit??

I think maybe the issue is all of the holiday lights and displays people are using electric for that they aren't otherwise using in mid-January when if it does get this cold, it's more likely to happen than December. Not sticking up for them, just a theory.

Non profits receiving funds from for profit companies are called donations, not conflict’s of interest

Space heaters use a huge amount of power.

The Amazon warehouses are probably still open. The Steelers played last night. I’m sure the higher ups of the energy companies have their heat on full blast. This isn’t energy conservation. This is just hatred of the working class. “Force yourselves to freeze or we’ll cut your power.”

If you have two teslas, you probably make enough money that he rules don’t apply, so you’re good.

It means turn off your fucking btc rigs!

Sorry no, fix your grid infrastructure

It’s almost like green no matter what is a mistake. Lets build more nuclear plants.

Huh? They do not generate power through the steam. They use steam to convert to hot water and use the hot water to heat the building.

I’ve done HVAC design work in 20+ buildings downtown and I’ve never seen one that uses steam to generate electricity or A/C.

This was my point exactly. I don’t own two teslas.

Not today’s problem, but wait until it’s cold and everyone is trying to charge the electric cars while heating their homes.

Yeah, people are not going to use their ovens less for Christmas or turn down their thermostats when it's this cold.

I turned down my thermostat *because* it's this cold. I can handle being a little uncomfortable until Tuesday in order to save some money on that gas bill.

Duquesne University generates their own Steam to use for Electricity (4MW) , Heating, and Cooling. This video talks about their system, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKqR7_ZQRwY

Yeah that’s a college campus, makes sense. It’s not economically feasible for regular building owners to do.

I am almost 100% sure several buildings at Pitt use steam for HVAC turbines and power generation, as well as water and building heating. I just assumed it was the same downtown, but I could be wrong!

Yup Pitt does use steam for some of that. It’s just really expensive so you’ll typically just see it in sectors that are subsidized in some way. It’s definitely a cool idea it’s just not cheap b

Not when the service provided directly benefits them, that is a service provider, a vendor. When their contributors are only a set of ten companies, how can a non-profit act independent of those 10 companies?

Because they are a separate entity… and when a for profit company donates the assets have to be classified by the non profit depending on any restrictions donors may have, also non profit entities have multiple documentation requirements for both donors and vendors. I’ve audited non profits all over Pittsburgh if these things are missing or unreported we the auditors disclose that info and the non profit can lose 501c3 status.