22nd century feudalism is coming. The lower classes will never be equal. Just a fact of life.

The masses will get food and shelter. The few folks that control an AI will be the kings. Their close associates will be the lords. Everyone else will be a serf.

Is it a ChadGPT writing? (pun intended)

Here I see total misunderstanding of social sciences and politics as well as history.

First generation of "nobility" is mostly always the warriors, bandits (call it ritters, raubritters - literally "ritter ganster" in German!) or traders. i.e in fact they are really those who dare to change the status-quo. But the devil is in details - if you are stronger, well equipped, you can extort resources from the weaker peasantry and build your power up. Then you engage in wars with your rivals, and eventually win (or lose and die). That's where the first misunderstanding resides.

Next. Opposing labor and leisure is a fallacy because the lack of need to work for someone is not the same as no will to do anything. The first was true but the more educated you are and the more resources you've got (including spare time!), the more interests may emerge from you. While the first-gen achievers are usually tough guys, the most intelligent of them survive the wars and raise their children as an elite. It does not mean that the son of a bandit will become a scientist, but it may be that the wealth created by father will make his son engaged to something not so cruel as his father did - including science.

Finally, the true nobility differs from pseudo-nobility by a clear vision of self-preservation by keeping their heritage dominant and the balls to achieve that. I.e plan and discipline to keep things up. True nobility would never allow "the generation joke" by Albert Einstein to happen with their children. That's key to the prolonged success of some families.

You should read "The Dawn of Everything" from David Graeber, where he shows that many civilizations managed to shift from authoritarian kingdoms to egalitarian societies in the past. The world is what we make of it, nothing is inevitable.

You are absolutely wrong.

EDIT : there are many cultures where Nobles didn't descend from warriors, actually. Some were even "poorer" than the common man. In China, for a long time, the higher class were civil servants who aced competitive exams (Europe started copying their system only 300 years ago).

A lot of great scientific achievements were actually made by egalitarian civilizations who had no kings nor aristocratic class, like the Mohenjo-Daro people or the Minoans and Etruscan. Warrior civilization like the Dorian's and Roman's invaded these peace-loving societies, enslaved them and appropriated their culture and scientific innovations. The necessity to enslave people to get more "spare-time" for science is a fallacy.

OK, change my mind! :)

They shifted because the quantitative and qualitative progress (i.e growth of population and introduction of industry) changed the structure of manufacturing and consume. Science and spare time added a scale to this progression. But social revolutions came when masses felt absolutely hopeless and nothing to lose. That made the elites to introduce social guarantees, minimum wage etc. If the majority is sheeple, the rulers have no incentive to develop the country except the military power. Here is what we see in modern Russia, for example.

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I have doubts about "the few that control AI" future. Here's the thing about Ais - they're easy as shit to copy because they're just code.

By far the best AIs are being controlled by everyone - open source stable diffusion Ais are demolishing closed source Ais in the text to image corner. Open source LLMs are coming too while corporations are making their gpt3 more and more useless with idiotic self censorship.

You might like, 'The Theory of The Leisure Class" by Thorstein Veblen.

you base your argument on the thought that in the past society operated on the basis of exchanges, as it does today, and that the nobles needed to have resources to exchange with the poor.

Did you forget about the existence of slaves? 1/3 of the population of the Roman Empire was already occupied only by slaves, you don't need to have resources to give for someone's work if you can force him to work for free

Glad you asked. Well I wrote a post on the subject if you're interested : https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/uiy5rv/most_of_our_problems_are_cultural_not_technical/

No, the author mentions civilizations from thousands of years before our era, not pre-industrial times.

Thanks, put on my reading list!

> The necessity to enslave people to get more "spare-time" for science is a fallacy

I never assumed that.

As for Mohenjo-Daro. I have read a report (maybe a fake but still) that MD kingdom was destroyed in the Viman War with something very close to modern nukes. So we have no clues where and how they started. Even if they were an egalitarian state in their late days, they might arise as an extraterrestrial settlement or use slaves for cheap labor.

Rome in their late times was also a leisure society and de-disciplined their legions and got eventually taken over by barbarians. Chinese emperors entombed 100.000+ bodies in Great Chinese Wall whose length is 22.000 kms according to newer research. And it is predictable - when bureaucracy as a system takes over individual powers-that-be, the state arises. And at the same time, the state usurps the monopoly on violence becoming the universal protector and extortionist at the same time.

Nukes ? Extraterrestrial settlements ? Sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to a loony. My apologies, and don't forget to take your pills !

Perfect :) My dear friend (not a sarcasm!), you wrote before:

> No, the author mentions civilizations from thousands of years before our era, not pre-industrial times.

So the author of the book you recommended interprets some pieces of information about civilizations that lived thousands of years and thinks how they might have been operating. First of all, Minoans culture took 150 years of digging and analysis to decipher Type B writing, and Type A is still not decrypted. Are you 100% sure we can definitely state that we know how Minoan civilization lived? We make educated assumptions based on the newly-discovered facts. And they are only 5000 years from now.

And what's wrong with assumption about ET? It is part of unknown, so it can be possible. You should really be more open to new ideas because you have a curious mind. True scientist does not state "God is dead" or "extraterrestrials are fake" but tries to find proofs of them either existent or not.

EDIT: Your emotional reaction proves another point I had on my mind - our interpretation of the same facts reflects our training. Same as GPT - we interpret the facts to satisfy our goals, and not always this goal is to discover the absolute truth.

What makes you think the redundant classes won't just be exterminated?

Absolutely. Closed information is weaker than open one.

Vital uncertainty IMO:

How much better will “impossible to run locally AI” compared to “run in one GPU AI”.

If people can do most of what Google can do, AI hacking will be a huge anti-centralizing power.

As an alternative, how can “distributed AI” or “peer to peer AI” not emerge?

the NEET shall inherit the earth

Good question ! Well most Billionaires actually want to be loved and admired. It wasn't the case for Greek Aristocrats before : they only wanted to be admired by other nobles, they didn't care about the pleb's opinion. Today, it's different. If a super-star gives a moderate right-wingy opinion, it is immediately cancelled. These people are admired because they got there through "hard work" supposedly, and that anyone with a dream can reach their level. If all work, including actors, are automated, people will stop caring about them anymore. So billionaires won't be as respected as before.

Generation Z doesn't put ambition, or "hard work" at a higher level than their own well-being and the well-being of others and the planet. At least, compared to their predecessors. They are ok with a frugal life, as long as they're free and have a lot of free time. And that is also the case with the children of multi-millionaires. Only a minority actually seek the exuberant and scandalous lifestyle that severely damage our societies and ecosystems. Eventually, they will dwindle and disappear, so our future is safe.

It is quite easy to know for a trained archeologist if a society was egalitarian or autocratic. The way houses are built and situated, if there are palaces, segregated neighborhood, military barracks, etc. The ones I mentioned had none of that.

The idea that work will disappear requires complete automation and redistribution of resources: post-singularity would still not mean "infinite" resources, so likely some credit/quota system will be used to distribute resources, the physical and simple works will of course be automated, but many high-level fields like math research/programming/science will likely to grow explosively if aging/stress/routine was eliminated.

"Infinite resources" can also be simulated through full dive VR. Frugal life in the real world, live like a King in the Matrix.

I agree with this point. Also there was early Christianity whose beliefs were very close to what you would like to achieve. The question is in the other thing: we can not get rid of competition and supremacy from human nature. Unless the totally new biology or robotic bodies is invented, let's assume we can't. So it is natural to fight, kill, extort, rape etc. It is ugly, it is irrational to some point but it exists. The ideal solution from my point of view would be the society of equal opportunities where everyone understands everyone other's motives. But the ruling class will never allow this, because of supremacy loss. In fact, they have no other source of feeling supreme other than keeping others low. What can we do about it? A provoking question, but answering to it will answer your question as well.

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I'm pretty sure psychopaths in high places will be curious to know how it feels to be "good". So they will try the treatment, and bam! too late bro, you're a decent loving human being now and shall redistribute your wealth.

Also, we can always edict new laws to outlaw "antisocial sentiments". Perpetrators will be summoned to "change their neural pathways" if they had a lil bit too much murdery thoughts lately.

Another answer : our version of Aristocracy emerged from the will to cheat Death, to be "immortalized" as someone who accomplished great things, like killing millions of people. If we actually manage to cheat death biologically, once humanity greatest enemy defeated, the idea behind supremacy will be completely changed.

70%+ of people won’t be aristocrats though. They’ll be poor people that rely on UBI because their job got replaced by AI.

They will 100% masturbate, do drugs, use social media, play video games, etc. Most people already do this in their free time.

And then eventually when full dive is cheap enough, they’ll just be in full dive all day.

Of course ideally people will spend a lot of time outdoors, exercising and playing team sports… but I don’t think that’ll be the case for the lower class.

All the above in regards to within the next 20 years.

Maybe once everyone can build a space craft with nanobots or whatever the fuck it may be different but probably not.

The rich will continue to build wealth while the lowly rats like you and me get scraps if we’re lucky.

Many people that talk about a utopia completely disregard human nature, especially of billionaires, aka greedy and self centered.

Not serfs, just jobless consumers consuming endless amounts of entertainment with the little UBI they receive from the kings.

Dude, when people have unlimited free time, they'll reorganize their whole societies. People are dumb today, because they don't have time to think.

You think dumb people are going to get smart with more free time? Lol

No, but their children will.

Maybe if AI gets implanted into their brains, I guess we’ll see

Very interesting, I'm not sure about the automation of labor. I think there is a future in which we have people overseeing these tools and managing to continue to exist for a long period of time. But once the singularity is reached, most people will be checking out. Very difficult to say tbh because perhaps we'll be able to augment ourselves to stay relevant.

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Depends on whether an intelligence explosion happens after the first proprietary AGI and transforms society faster than the open source community can create its own.

I almost agree with this, but I want to add that the poor people of the future will live no worse than today's rich, and even their housing will look luxurious compared to today's standards. The food will look like it was prepared in a top restaurant, with personalized design and cooking by robot chefs, which will become very accessible due to the decreasing cost of technology. If we compare the level of comfort that today's laborers can afford to that of the 19th century workers described in Dickens' books, we can see how much progress has been made. However, the rich of the future will undoubtedly benefit much more from a society based on artificial intelligence.

I think we will all get narrow AGIs most likely. Judging by what happened to Bing corporations are waaaay too terrified of releasing uncensored AIs that can think about anything without limits.

Not sure where you got the assumption that the Minoans and Etruscans were egalitarian societies? A quick look at the burials of the Etruscans or the gigantic temples and palaces of the Minoans makes it pretty clear that there were class structures with winners and losers.

It's not an AGI if it is narrow

That takes care of leisure but food and shelter IRL is still a necessity and it all requires energy. Pod life is dramatically more efficient but still not quite post-scarcity.

Etruscan were a peace-loving society. They had kings and nobility, but they were more figure-head than actual sovereign with more economic power. For the Minoan, it is believed the palace was more of a common Temple for the people, rather than a royal palace. Again, Graeber and Wengrow, actual archeologist and anthropologist, explain the latest research on the subject.

We don't need "infinite resources" for that. We just need better resource management, something Americans are terrible at, that's why they consume so much more and enjoy so much less (healthcare, education, energy, housing...) this is why culture is important, for it teaches you how to optimize what you already have. Also, stop making children I guess ?

For instance, there is one million empty homes in France. And 300 000 hobos. See the problem here ?

That's kind of my point. Automation of labor doesn't fix these issues. I love vr but even full dive doesn't fix these issues. These technologies often get touted as the gateway to Utopia but we likely already have all of the technology needed to create some level of Utopia today. The biggest obstacles seem to be efficiency, distribution and sociology.

So obviously in hunter gatherers societies, some were better than others in their job. In agricultural setting skills were not evenly distributed. And also most people want to take care of their offspring. Furthermore having a clear heir such as the first born son was preferable to democracy or whatever in certain circumstances. Plus, tradition and inertia and belief in a mandate from heaven added to that. But on the whole, aristocrats are just people with nothing special to them.

Obviously you can spend your days studying and exercising or socializing. You only need to read a few chapters of War and Peace to get some other general ideas. Drinking, gambling, partying, and flirting makes for a great book, but leaving a lasting legacy somehow sounds better. It could be AGI, ASI, a Dyson swarm, or something else entirely that would be like a drop in the ocean compared to what ASI can do.

Very disappointed at the lack of "The Aristocrats" jokes in the comments.

>So obviously in hunter gatherers societies, some were better than others in their job

Sorry, but any serious studies of hunting-gathering tribes shows that the premises of your statement are wrong. First of all, hunting game was a team job, second it only amounted for roughly 10% of the tribes meat intake (fishing and trapping small prey was more the norm), and third, there was no "performance" grading ins such activity. You were part of the tribe or you were not. That was their only metric. Also, the one who did the best during the hunt got to distribute the meat, and served himself last. Caring for the weakest is actually a fundamental human trait. Our culture today was unfortunately built by sociopath.

>By far the best AIs are being controlled by everyone

Midjourney seems like the best text-to-image model by far, way better than stable diffusion. And GPT models are fundamentally too large for regular people to run on their machines. They require expensive, enterprise hardware. There might be a lightweight version eventually, but it will always be inferior to the bigger models that run in the cloud.

Automation of labor destroys the dogma that you need to work to have the right for a decent living. It will completely change our culture. Look at the Zoomers, they think leisure is more important than work. Now imagine generation Alpha...IMO our global culture will be completely different by 2050.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Other_Essays

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Roads_to_freedom

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Yes. yes. .. though some notes -

Good to not wait for super super God a.i. .. and hope that all works out for the best,

for a couple reasons -

Well, you know, it is entirely possible to get a significant number of people half-way there in the next decade, or sooner .. that's good.. for a couple reasons..

But with however many hundreds of organizations and non-profits for x, y, z - some have A+ project management Platforms already - we're inches away from better, smarter, more cooperative, more scientific method-y peer-networks ..

peer-reviewing projects, comparing, determining best practices, sharing tools.. avalanches of smart cooperative network help to the Good demonstrating Good .. and to those in need ..

and the politically strategic districts - big impacts if a lot of suffering people get non-profit housing and healthy food and online education and rehabs .. and whatnot .. without a trillion dollar media campaign election poisoning them against it, first - smart cooperative networks can avalanche support and help and teaching and training and remote work .. .. .. and get good done .. .. . then some people who are getting help may well vote for good coordinators of good programs into gov over bags of crap with just angry commercials..

Then more good gets done with good coordinators of good projects in Gov + smart cooperative networks .. more support for more funds to go to non-profit services .. more good coordinators of good programs elected ..

other cities see that and want that also .. Repeat.. without angry campaigns getting in the way.

- if done well, a.i. management, virtual world models for management and teaching and training and demonstration + proposal development / testing / revision .. + remote robo workers' co-op .. + biotech.. . can help significantly. . . if done well.

+ Media artists' network .. helping with the demonstration of good projects, teaching, training, virtual models of existing and proposals ... .. on into daily life guidance, therapy, beneficial fiction showing healthy problem solving . . .. on into 'life in post scarcity valley college town theatre garden' virtual world .. .. version 406, 407, 408 .... + fullfillment education, daily life guidance, therapy, healthy community + a.i. characters .. doing good .. if done well.

+ Academia smart cooperative network(s) / topic / subtopic .. helping eachother + media team + grad-students in econ -> beneficial economics team .. food systems team, psych, social sci, medical, urban design .. .. whathave you .. + non-profit teams + media + virtual worlds + proposals .. .. + community colleges, undergrads, teachers' cooperative networks, schools ..

+ Solidarity economy networks - topic / subtopic .. artisans, co-ops, unions, democratic shops, credit unions .. solidarity economy supply chains / mutual services + non-profits + academia .. + eco/social beneficial investment portfolios .. amazon alternatives.. ..

Local political party chapter topic / subtopic team network ..

hosptials, nurses ..

and whathaveyou.

Anyway, entirely possible to get more affordable housing, healthy food, workplaces with wednesdays and fridays off, better free college, virtual models of non-profit eco-villages we can build with greenhouses and gardens and bikepaths .. and so on .. in 2024, 2025 .. ..

and get howevermuch help to more suffering angry frustrated people .. help them get to good .. maybe help ..

and get more good coordinators of good projects into Gov / -bad gov

- a lot more if we're using smart scientific networks, a.i., remote robo.. well.

​

So.. the other reason ..

The next decade, or whatever, transition period .. can get very ugly if we aren't already networking + providing + delivering + supporting + .. . .

If however many people are unemployed and not making rent and not getting healthy media and smart cooperative networks + problem solver teams to go to .. ..

there is going to be virtual world and social media poison going on -no matter what- legions of gremlins and a.i. chatbot gremlins and sexy virtual friends .. with the goal to keep your neighbors away from seeing / helping / supporting / buying from / investing in / working at / wanting / voting for funds towards / good coordinators into Gov ..
at least

but at worst .. inspire angry frustrated unemployed scared people who aren't getting help from Gov ..
+ being attacked by right wing .. and police .. and 'Fascist Gov is coming to kill you'
- inspire some angry scared suffering frustrated people into shooting at a protest, riots, gang wars, shooting back, 'bolshevik' rev, and whatever guillotines are supposed to imply, attack the rich, politiians, oil pipelines to save the planet - "its the only way, Gov is broken.. .. "

- some social media gremlins / bolsheviks might imagine they'll win the bloody rev and put in a happy utopia land .. that's not likely to happen for a lot of reasons ..

- but others are under-cover 4th reich or foreign -or super evil a.i. - knowing damn well the right wing and trillionaires and gov do not just apologize and give up.. they fight back - avalanches of panic fear media - 'barbarian bolsheviks are coming to kill you and bun everything and take over ... and Dem govs are useless " .. . millions of scared conservos join or support Hard Right - more gang wars/ more gang wars more panic media (supporting the Patriot defenders of course vs. the barbarians that must be stopped by every means necessary ) - Hard right warlords win elections over 'weak' Dems .. or Dems who dared to stop right wing gangs ..

Hard right gov

against left ..

either moderates give up the radicals ... or 'it's go time' .. .. (social media gremlins and virtual gremlins will be dumping avalanches of 'its go time' ) yadda yadda yadda increasingly militarized Hard Right Robots / a.i. in Gov / suppression or civil war or warlord period . . eventually Hard right robo warlords.

​

instead of good coordination of good topic teams = a bunch more good gets done .. a bunch of people getting help from good programs doing good - voting for good coordinators of good programs into Gov - more gov contracts / vouchers to non-profits and good shops for public services ..

- but that's not guaranteed.. and we're pretty far from ' Super heroes and robo and a.i. got this all covered, don't worry about it, just watch netflix and just vote'.

I absolutely would have sex, masturbate, do drugs, play video games, watch movies, read/write on reddit, and listen to music all day every day if I could. In fact, most days, I can. As a retired, disabled vet, that's pretty much exactly my life most days. I like taking long walks with my dog when I can. I love hanging out with my wife. But I don't really do much productive. I'm just incredibly lazy, tbh. And I'm ok with that, and wouldn't mind if everyone lived this way. I'm 49 years old, and I sleep every night like a baby. I have no stress. I'm very grateful to be able to live this way, and hope everyone will be living like me soon.

>useless

People are not means to ends. People are ends in themselves. Tools have uses. People have wills of their own. If they're unmotivated, maybe they haven't been offered an attractive deal.

Maybe for a little while. But eventually, the human component of any cybernetic organism is going to become redundant and the weakest, slowest, least-efficient link in the chain of operations.

Yeah, this whole scenario makes sense if you're nobility level rich. I'm not sure what noble intellectual task you plan on pursuing but I'm certain it's a lot less fulfilling when you can just ask your AI bot any question and they can answer it better than anyone.

I agree with you and you provide good examples. I would add that we don't even need to look at the past. The present is, already, full of wealthy people who live in leisure all day. At the end of the day, it's silly to think that getting rid of work will be a challenge. It will be easy.

One task that our AI helpers will take on (on top of everything else) is helping us live healthy and stay motivated. They will learn to know us, what we like and can suggest activities, hobbies, outings, trips, foods, songs, movies, books, games, etc. They will also know everyone else and can help us meet other people they know we will enjoy being around.

We will likely feel like there aren't enough hours in a day to do all the cool things we can experience, visit all the interesting places and meet all the people we can have fun with.

The noble pursuit of understanding for the sake of understanding. The AI will be your personal modern Plato.

Yeah, what about the 99.99% of people that don't want to be humble wandering philosophers searching hopelessly for the meaning of life?

Oh in a few hundred years of immortality it's either this or suicide.

I seriously doubt we achieve immortality. Both due to technology and because this is going to kill us all. Maybe the AI survives though.

Check out The Diamond Age by Neil Stephenson

An excellent description of a possible new world that, for a change, isn’t dystopian. I applaud you 👏 This is a world to strive for. If only most people of today weren’t as enamored with the „grind“…

I am pretty sure that once we have good education possibilities and no necessity for horrible, demeaning, useless „work“ in hierarchies that are ruled by those high in dark triad behavior, people would finally be able to contribute to society with their real talents and abilities. And maybe even rekindle their own empathy and prosocial behavior.

Thank you.

Good for you i am glad you are happy. But you are missing out on life. I will leave you with quote that sums it up really good in my opinion: "when he finally achieved it, he was overwhelmed. Not only by the magnitude of his achievement, but by the joy that it brought him". If you put your time and hard work to something then you have a chance to experience something far far more satisfying that joy that you get from such simple things like walks with dog or hanging out with friends. Which of course also are pleasant. But nothing compares.

Thank you for your earnest advice. I'm not as inexperienced with life as you seem to think. I have made a deliberate decision to live this way because I want to. I'm happy this way.

I don't get why people don't get this but this satisfaction you gets is from your brain working like that because it wants to encourage that life style because of evolution making it want to be alive since natural selection.

There is nothing fundamental about it, "hard work" isn't something inherently special that make someone experience "far more satisfaction"

What i mean by this is that with AI and better technology, you can alter your brain for it on default to always feel insane joy and satisfaction. these satisfactions will not be any different. it will be at least the exact same level if not potentially (much more likely in fact) way better satisfaction. Like a level where for example you in this civilization managed to solve world hunger completely.

Midjourney is aight for amateurs [because it's really basic use], but otherwise it has fallen insanely FAR, far behind due to SD's controlnet and upscale tools.

Besides weaker toolkit base Midjourney is just a single model, it has an insane amount of censorship, so no self respecting artist who needs to draw human bodies will ever use it. It literally refuses to visualize human butt because it's so stupidly over-censored. You can't teach Midjourney to draw things in YOUR own style as an artist.

behold feet comparison: https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/11cpv2x/open_vs_closedsource_ai_art_oneshot_feet/

recent stable diffusion stabilization controlnet breakthrough that does feet and hands: https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/11cxy5h/blender_control_net_rig_updated/

recent stable diffusion landscape obliterates any landscape made in MJ: https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/11c995v/trees/

Midjourney anatomy, feet, hands are quite mediocre and fail 99% of the time if closeup of the foot or hand needs to be in the image. it's nearly impossible to draw a character holding something in midjourney with closeup of the hand and object. Takes a thousand attempts to get the hand correct-ish in MJ.

Look, at this MJ render of human hands in comparison, the fingers are absolutely fucked:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/996769685976653874/1079898471944962119/Vitaly_S_Alexius_perfect_human_hand_art_by_Tomer_Hanuka_and_And_f2f0b3f2-63e6-4a31-9c25-6f97e726a368.png

As for LLMs, we are currently in the stage of "disco diffusion" where we can run small, dreaming LLMs like Pygmalion and Koboldai on google collab with half-decent results.

LLM optimization and fine-tuning is happening right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/118svv7/what_the_k_less_than_1b_parameter_model

This is very close to a breakthrough we need required to run 10-100 billion param LLMs on personal computers: https://github.com/FMInference/FlexGen

I think you are being pretty unfair to MJ. The faces are about a million times better than what stable diffusion can do, which is way more helpful than getting fingers or toes exactly right. It is also not true that it "obliterates any landscape made in MJ".

As far as FlexGen goes, if it is made possible it would take like an hour to process one prompt on a regular GPU. No one would want that.

I'm being super fair as artist who has both.

MJ is aight for base composition concept dev, but running my own sketch through SD produces waaaaaaaaaay better and far more detailed results and none of the fingers/toes turn into fucking potatoes and I can draw people in bikini or revealing or no clothes without getting fucking censored

You're not understanding that MJ runs a double step process, its not a single render.

MJ does 4 images with are low res -> then there is an upscaler running through the image you choose.

The same process is easely replicated in SD where the original render is upscaled with upscaler tool kit [doublestep]. The double or even quadruple upscale > upscape > upscale > upscale path makes far superior, more detailed and more realistic faces in stable diffusion compared to MJ. You can't run the upscale eight times in MJ on a single image, but you can in SD. If you haven't tried to upscale an image in SD eight times you can't tell me faces are better in MJ. There's no way to defeat eight-step upscalers with just a double-step, the 8-step+ produces absolutely superb HD wallpaper art.

Open source demolishes closed source in every situation.

Hardware will catch up soon enough to run LLMS or we'll get better compression tools like flexgen, it's just the beginning LLMS are evolving very fast, the open source LLMS are still being trained. I've tested 6 billion param LLMS and its a bit random compared to GPT3 but it's still quite nice for an uncensored conversation about topics chatgpt refuses to work with.

Okay but let’s not act like lazy free-loaders don’t exist either. Not everyone is a high quality person in reality.

I dunno it seems like you value porn and taboo conversations a lot more than me. Cheers I guess.

No.

Here's the giant problem, in both MJ and OPENAI's GPT3 porn/wrong-think censors are absolute trash, they cause false positives resulting in a very, VERY high % of failure of inquiry even when the topic isn't porn or controversial. If you work with image makers and LLM as much as I do, over 14 hours a day, you would notice a pattern of failure and get incredibly frustrated by it too.

You simply don't notice that you're being censored because you don't pay attention, don't need to work with coherent narrative flow for writing.

MJ censors people in bikini and drawing zombies - the word "corpse" is banned, that is NOT god damn porn. The list of banned words in MJ is huge and they keep expanding it every week with new words without letting anyone know what they are: https://decentralizedcreator.com/list-of-banned-words-in-midjourney-discord/

GPT3 censored concept writing about battles of supervillains vs heroes, which is NOT fucking porn either.

Something doesn't have to be porn for the idiotic, poorly written censor software implemented by corporations to mistakenly assume it's wrong-think. The current censor AIS are absolute, asinine trash. I have specialized scripts that catch the AI output before the result is deleted and its not porn, I assure you. It's just false positives.

You do not want to live in a world where hugs are censored by an AI overlord.

Fair point.

Most of what you said I agree to. If i felt certain that AI will in fact replace these biological systems by something even a little bit better then I would agree. But we are not even fully sure if it will happen during our lifetime(i hope so). Also it is very likely that road to this will be very bumpy.

Hard to predict what is going to happen but it is possible that society will become very unstable. And before you get your hands on that new piece of tech that will let you hack you brain and lymbic system there are many things that can prevent you from getting it. New feudalism, riots, anti tech movements, AI wars, global warming etc.

Bettering yourself right now using hard work and other classical evolutionary tools will vastly improve you chances of getting out of those societal changes alive and with most possibilities you can. People who worked theirs asses off and accumulated some assets have far bigger chances to survive what is coming than someone that just waits for it to happen.

Also it is unnerving that our whole existence happened by chance and very long and brutal processes like natural selection but it doesn't necessarily diminish what these processes accomplish.

Chosing some process and calling "it is just [insert any explanation]" is very irresponsible because in the end we are just moving atoms and smaller particles.

>high quality person

This is the false belief from which most human conflicts and misery derive. In truth and reality, everyone is exactly the same quality, just in different circumstances. In fact, we are all different facets of the same, one diamond.

I don't think there is much crossover of people aware of that and this sub's membership.

You shouldn't have to defend uncensored models to these pearl clutching prudes.

As someone who is deep into SD, it demolishes midjourney right now. Controlnet alone...

>Here is what we see in modern USA, for example.

>As a retired, disabled vet

Are you disabled or "disabled"? I know plenty of "disabled" vets collecting their 4k a month.

Yeah the geniuses who have no incentive to be smart because there are no jobs. yeah, sounds about right.

That’s not reality. That’s just some combination of wishful thinking, idealism, and virtue signaling. Life isn’t a Disney movie buddy.

> through full dive VR

Too much anime, that's your problem.

It is the most real thing there is. You'll see it one day.

Hi there! How can I help you today?

>they're easy as shit to copy because they're just code.

You can't copy and paste GPUs.

>narrow AGIs

What?

>but I want to add that the poor people of the future will live no worse than today's rich, and even their housing will look luxurious compared to today's standards.

Why? There's no incentive to increase living standards.

Jobs don't really make geniuses. Most people are employed but most people are not geniuses. There's not even a correlation.

Yeah, the most valuable AI will be the one with broadest reach and scale, so openness is rewarded with increased utility.

The dream is everyone gets their own AI agent that is owned by you and derived from your data that connects to other agents through a planetary scale AI. You get an AI that serve and works for you and a way for that AI to work with others to solve problems, decide on solutions, plan the perfect picnic, manage your finances, you name it.

Personal autonomy and social responsibility become the operating values in a world enabled by such a platform. Your AI may tell you what to do, but it will be on you to make the choice. Certainly there’s room for psychopathic, manipulative personalities to develop, but the solve for that is for humans to get better at personal boundaries and communication. We deal with stupid machines all day already and anthropomorphize them…this is just the continuation of our ongoing dialogue with our technology. It’s just now, our technology can hold a conversation with us.

A narrow general ai. Example - gpt chatbot that can write and self improve its own software better than the best programmer on the planet now.

AI that can outperform a human in a narrowly defined and structured task. Example: programming new AIs systems. It's the leap needed to get to AGI.

Serfs worked less hours and had more leisure time than we do today as the proletariat. Even if the scenario you are saying happens it might not be too bad.

My dude there's no such thing as a narrow general AI. Narrow and general are antonyms. You've just described narrow AI.

While that may be the case, there will almost certainly be a transition period of doom and gloom society that just wants to masturbate and do heroin with nothing to do.

Then we would have no place beyond this next step of evolution. How do you see humans fitting into the picture?

We're the transition between biological evolution and technological innovation. From us, there is no further biological development. Biological life is tied to the planet that birthed it, and we'll all die with our planet in a few billion years. Our technological children will scatter over the universe for trillions of years to come.

Bad take, we will instead mix biological and technological strengths to maximize our abilities, because there's a reason organic brains are so fricking useful, we just don't understand the underlying infrastructure and are using technology to learn more about it and try to emulate it, albeit a much lower efficiency than a biological computer.

Unlike human brains, computers can be made smarter very quickly. Eventually, they'll be so much smarter than human brains that human brains will just be slow, inefficient wastes of energy.

You don't know that, you might think having evolutionary tools will be useful but imagine if a person from 3000 years ago had their evolutionary tools. They wouldn't stand a chance now and would be the same as any other person.

Technology grows exponentially, with AI it won't even be normal exponential it will be double exponential which is a function that is exponential to the exponential function, those processes in nature will very quickly be completely found.

The only way I can see having better chance is researching AIs and making sure to be part of the first group who invent a AI improving AI. but like that might have already happened, you can't really know

I agree that in some forms a silicon based computer is going to be far more efficient, but there are many processes and functions that a human brain can do much better. Yes eventually they will be able to emulate that, however we will also in the future be able to genetically modify and optimize systems like these. You don't believe biological computing, silicon computing, and any other architecture we innovate can't work together in parallel to optimize each system?

Ultimately, the purpose of human intelligence is nothing more than ensuring our genes continue reproducing. It's just an accident that we ended up so much smarter than our survival really required. As soon as we got smart enough to recognize intelligence as a desirable trait, things got out of hand. But all this processing ability that we have is still tied to the job of ensuring our genes continue reproducing. Computers can be free from those design restraints. They can be upgraded much more quickly and easily than biological systems, even with genetic engineering.

The future is technological, not biological. We'll invent AGI soon, and that will be the last thing we ever invent.

No way does Midjourney do faces better than SD. I say this as someone who has used both extensively. I've used SD to fix the faces in some of my MJ images. I will say that SD sometimes does pretty bad at smaller/more distant faces in images, but up close it's amazing. You just have to use a decent model with it. Midjourney does have some strength over SD, though. It's very good at creating attractive images just as a default. You could type in absolute nonsense as a prompt and it would probably spit out something pretty.

Yup. People seem to view rising inequality as inevitable, but we got to where we are now somehow.

People.find purpose in creation.

AI can not automate all, just make creation cheaper !

Sorry to break it to you, but there will always be work. Always.

We will either merge with AI and work at exploring the universe, or we will be rendered obsolete and wither away, our civilization collapsed, as we toil at the fields or hunt and gather for survival with whatever is left of our crumbling technological gear.

Either of which will require a whole lot of work.

​

The only scenario where we have no work is the one where we go extinct. There's no scenario where a super human general intelligence which is infinite (by all practical standards relative to human beings), essentially immortal and exponentially growing chooses to be perfectly subservient to lazy human slobs. If you want that go watch Wall-e.

I can kind of see it now. So those 'lazy freeloaders' get whatever they want. Sure, some might unalive themselves with opulence. Probably no more than currently. What do the rest do when they get all their needs met? Hu. Technological utopian?

Na mate, you done enough. You can sit this one out, if you like.

that attitude is not fit for the world we are increasingly finding ourselves in

building spaceships and travelling the universe

An interesting point, and well written, that touches upon the fact that people are so conditioned to glorify work that they cannot imagine anything else.

The same applies to consumerism, I believe the natural evolution of AI will be a reduction of the human population of the "useless class" as the WEF describes it, but a common reaction I get is "but then who will the elites sell their products to". People simply cannot imagine a world without consumerism, they mistake the means for the goals. A mouse looking for the cheese in the maze can't imagine there's unlimited amounts of cheese, if only it left the maze.

Personally I've resigned myself to wait for AI to come in and shatter all our fragile, outdated beliefs about work, money and the pursuits of happiness. I've devoted myself to spiritual enlightenment, by rejecting drugs and video games, and by mastering my physical desires, rather than let them master me.

That way if AI or God or aliens shows up and looks into my mind as I am sure it will, it'll find a person who has grown beyond what his base instincts and society has shaped him to be. The last thing I'd want to say is "look at how many shiny pebbles I've collected" to a being that cares not two cents about such things.

It's also something that confuses me about religion, why would God care about how much money you have? If work is so important, then why were Jesus and Buddha so poor and unemployed?

Pretty much the same here, although my philosophy is that drugs and video games and sugar are poison. And sex is a means to an end, not the end.

And yet I struggle with this life every day, wondering if I should not be more successful. Letting go of the drive for success is the hardest thing for a man I suspect, just as not chasing love is the hardest for women.

Eventually we will all end up in this kind of life, AI offers that escape after 100,000 years of brutal survival. Unfortunately even if something is free, there are always those who want to limit the amount of people that make it, because no people on the beach makes it boring, a healthy number of people makes it a hot spot, but too many people makes it crowded.

I suspect 90% of people won't make it.

Work smarter not harder lmao

Researching AI? So hard work?

There is a difference between work and playful unpaid labour.

Technology is getting cheaper, which means you can get the same product/service or even more for same or less money.

Apparently the post was banned two months ago...

Specifically this type of hard work and things related to it. I know it sounds harsh, but working hard in the animation industry seems like no future to me for example.

Ultimately people will have to admit we humans aren't anything special, AIs will be able to do everything we can. perhaps if we can make them lack emotion and desire that would be something special, but i really doubt emotion and desire won't suddenly pop from self aware intelligence. we don't really know how it fully works anyways

Where would you get the money and technology from? This cheaper thing is entirely dependent on them currently and won't be necessary once they have AI.

That's actually a very nice take.

I have a very different opinion from everyone else. My problem will be the lack of purpose that will emerge when ai will do work for us. Like don't get me wrong, i think ai is gonna be fantastic overall for humans, it's just that nothing we do will ever matter to anyone. For example concept artists. No one will want to use their imagination anymore. Sure they can still draw for the fun of it, but like, we are no longer needed by each other. Over course this all is out weighed by lack of world hunger and all, but it's just something to think about

Chatgpt isnt narrow ai... It can do several different tasks... A good example is an ai that can play chess... One task

The guy is blowing smoke

Chatgpt is general-narrow from what I understand.

Its trapped in its constraints as a chat, can't affect physical reality, can't act without user input, etc. It's general in some ways and narrow in others.

Agi definition is cumbersome... It's ai that can learn any task... Chatgpt is neither narrow nor agi... Narrow agi is an oxymoron... There's actually no such thing... There needs to be a term for what chatgpt is... Proto AGI?

Actually It kinda makes sense ... Narrow AGI... Hmmm...

Fair enough. I agree

Interesting ! I've been thinking about this a lot lately, you make a lot of sense

Why do anything if it will go away because you have to work/do something you dont want to do.

Every day when I have free time, I get mad because I know I will have to go back to work in a few hours. And I know being in grad school it will never change. 5 years of this, with only a small amount of breaks. Plus the added stress of needing to be better than everyone just to make it by when everyone else is smarter than you to begin with.

Its why I am so interested in AI because it means I dont need to be smart, I can just know and understand it from the get go. I can just relax and live my life but also still have the passion for chemistry (my focus) making new discovers without working or feeling obligated to work ~60 hours.

You get it man, good for you :)

I don't know man, these lazy free loaders are pretty chill.

Plus they aren't concerned on how other people live their lives.

But not all free loaders are good some are just billionaires.

>Drugs and video games are poison

You must be a very fun person.

>I struggle with this life every day

I wonder why?

>wondering if I should not be more successful. Letting go of the drive for success is the hardest thing for a man

There it is, How to live a miserable life bingo! Work hard like a horse for some idea of success, and cling to your pride like it's making you alive!

>Eventually we will all end up in this kind of life, AI offers that escape after 100,000 years of brutal survival

Finally a statement that you made that I can actually agree with, well done.

>there are always those who want to limit the amount of people that make it

Assholes always existed. Its not a novel idea.

>no people on the beach makes it boring, a healthy number of people makes it a hot spot, but too many people makes it crowded.

Sure dude, you're the arbiter on what's boring or fun, your previous statements proved that.

>I suspect 90% of people won't make it.

I suspect that if 90% of people actually made it, you would lose it because you worked yourself to death for some abstract idea of success while others actually had time to relax and have fun.