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targ_ t1_iwysru2 wrote

Reply to comment by botfiddler in The time it took to get to the moon. by Redvolition

This right here is why we need universal basic income

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unicornlocostacos t1_iwztbw4 wrote

Don’t worry our government (at least in the US) won’t even think about that until 80% of the population is on their doorstep with pitchforks and torches.

That’s what happens when you’re only capable of planning 1 quarter out.

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TJ137 t1_iwz6845 wrote

Just remember nothing is given without something expected. Maybe they give you 2k a month but you have to follow their rules. I would way rather work and make my own money.

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RikerT_USS_Lolipop t1_iwz903c wrote

UBI is not a choice between working or letting the government control you. You can work regardless.

And just think about what you're suggesting. They will threaten to take away you're UBI, and that is somehow worse than it not existing in the first place? That's like telling a homeless man that the government will offer him a house but expect him to work a job, and the government shouldn't go down that path because then the homeless man will be dependent on the government to not be homeless.

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Wassux t1_iwzlafh wrote

I never understand UBI, it seems impossible to me. Prices are driven by supply and demand, if we don't increase supply but do increase income, everything will just get more expensive. What's the point?

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RikerT_USS_Lolipop t1_iwznyca wrote

why doesn't supply increase? Is it locked or something?

If the general population has more money then there's more incentive than ever to produce more stuff. Also, this topic is a little more advanced, but in economics there is a thing called the Utilization Rate. A huge percentage of our Capital [machines and production] are sitting idle.

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Wassux t1_ix07cqh wrote

Because there are only a limited amount of resources? AI isn't going to magically appear more copper out of thin air. And aren't they sitting idle because we don't need them?

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cyan2k t1_ix10wtv wrote

If there’s UBI I would do nothing then Netflix and chill because even my passions like making music or painting would be replaced by AI by then. Bring it on!

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botfiddler t1_ix43lqi wrote

You can use such an AI for making your own game or show?

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mutantbeings t1_ix1myl9 wrote

I love your comment because you’re cracking the surface on why universal basic income is actually just a band aid on neoliberalism, because it perpetuates the same ideology of the system we have now that your needs should still be a commodity that you must buy.

Universal basic welfare is the answer to that; which simply gives people everything they need to survive and undermines the oppressive neoliberal logic that everything in life should be bought and sold, even the most fundamental needs everyone has to have access to in order to survive.

The rich hate UBW because it reduces their ability to spend UBI on luxuries and reduces their ability to profit off of other peoples UBI spends. So it is talked about way less.

The logic of commodification is by no means a given or any kind of truth; but we are socialised extremely strongly to think that anything different is impossible. Not true at all.

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Wassux t1_ix1nnd3 wrote

See this is something I can get behind.

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TJ137 t1_iwzf18g wrote

Sounds like you really really want UBI not that you have a valid argument as for why it's good lol.

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RikerT_USS_Lolipop t1_iwzoyn6 wrote

To be honest it sounds like you really don't want UBI and don't even know what it is.

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Butthole_seizure t1_ix0fpg6 wrote

Could it come from the value of your data of is this too utopic to be real?

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botfiddler t1_ix439la wrote

Idk. Maybe only if immigration is regulated strictly. It might already be too late for more than just an extremely low UBI. Why would the people with still some jobs, capital gains or retirement funds support it? Especially if it's just for random people living in the same country? Also, if a big energy and fossil fuel crunch happens around the same time, a lot of very cheap farmworkers will be needed.

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Exel0n t1_iwz9ifc wrote

ubi is stupid. millionaires and billionaire do not need it. why should they get ubi when they pay taxes already?

unemployment benefit is all it needs. just increase it

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SWATSgradyBABY t1_iwzdyld wrote

We need a political revolution. You choose the method. But UBI under this system would turn into 1984 almost immediately. It already is a dystopia for some. But lots of people don't consider it real until they get burned.

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GinchAnon t1_ix0czx2 wrote

I don't follow why that would be the case? like... how?

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stupendousman t1_ix01k1b wrote

Translation:

"I want the government to take money from strangers and give it to me. "

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lajfa t1_ix04n7c wrote

I want the government to take money (value) from robots and give it to me.

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stupendousman t1_ix0913c wrote

r/singularity, where commenters don't even understand tech before the singularity.

They don't understand decentralized management, spontaneous organization, process innovation, etc.

Tech trends towards decentralization, not an eternal replay of 1960s US manufacturing.

The rate of decentralization is slowed by the very government you types champion- to benefit you personally.

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spamholderman t1_ix1ayb9 wrote

1960s manufacturing no longer exists in the US because we buy all our shit from China and print dollars backed with force and financialization of the economy. Your version of the future only works with portable matter replicators they are so cost effective making a physical copy of anything including more replicators is as effectively free as making a digital copy. As long as production has to be centralized because of supply chain complexity and economies of scales, we’re still going to have factories and factory owners. Relying on your local factory owner for all of your goods and services is a lot less utopia and more feudalism.

On the other hand this sounds like a great situation for the majority, unemployable and relying on charity to survive, to use decentralized communications to organize a violent takeover of less well defended everything factories and use the supplies to attack and capture as many factories and factories owners as possible to then decentralizedly redistribute their seemingly infinite resource- wait this is just seizing the means of production and you’re advocating for communism!

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stupendousman t1_ix1hv3a wrote

> 1960s manufacturing no longer exists in the US because we buy all our shit from China and print dollars backed with force and financialization of the economy.

The point was about centralization, as this: "Tech trends towards decentralization" clearly refers to.

Mid-century US was all about centralization in business and government.

>Your version of the future only works with portable matter replicators

Nope.

>As long as production has to be centralized because of supply chain complexity and economies of scales

The internet makes supply logistics pretty easy. Economies of scale are required for some business plans, not all by a long shot.

> Relying on your local factory owner for all of your goods and services is a lot less utopia and more feudalism.

Feudalism!!!

Take a few minutes and read I, Pencil.

A small business can set up supply contracts from other businesses all over the world.

>On the other hand this sounds like a great situation for the majority, unemployable and relying on charity to survive

I see, your conceptual models are taken straight from dystopian fiction.

>wait this is just seizing the means of production and you’re advocating for communism!

100101000011110101

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targ_ t1_ix05veg wrote

I don't think you understand how money works...

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stupendousman t1_ix096it wrote

You've copied the tone of the 2000s Daily Show without the wit.

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