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2greenlimes t1_j73vp9b wrote

Reply to comment by batpot in Snowboarders sue ex-coach, federation, USOPC for sex trafficking. by PrincessBananas85

Predators will find ways to be predators…

Elite sports involves a lot of kids/teens being alone with their coaches. Even outside of locker rooms, parents just leave their kids to train for 2-3+ hours with no parental supervision. Just kids and coaches - because coaches, especially successful ones, are respected authority figures.

Unfortunately as well SafeSport is very underfunded and underpowered to do shit. In figure skating there’s been several coaches who SafeSport has banned, only for said coaches to sue SafeSport and get a paltry punishment for their crimes - and since SafeSport is the ultimate authority other than the legal system, the sport’s organizing body can do nothing to overturn either one for a harsher sentence.

The thing I am happy about is that this issue is being brought to light and something will be forced to change in the US. I can only imagine what’s happening in places like Russia and China where parents are straight up banned from some training facilities and some underaged athletes live in dorms year round…

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LimerickJim t1_j74c5hs wrote

This. Wherever there are people put in positions of trust around children there will be predators. Be it religions, sports or scouts.

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Chitownitl20 t1_j757q7k wrote

This. Wherever there are people put in positions of trust in a culture based on exploitation put around children there will be predators. Be it business, religions, sports, scouts, government.

The solution is to build a culture against exploitation, but that’s inherently anti-capitalist, so that’s not happening and it’s just a problem we are willing to accept as a community.

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AudioShepard t1_j76d6h7 wrote

Why is everyone mad? You’re right.

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[deleted] t1_j76gbkk wrote

[deleted]

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PM_ur_Rump t1_j771dyy wrote

What? Reddit usually loves criticizing capitalism.

It does deserve much criticism, but that comment was just dumb.

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77fwqq wrote

The foundation of capitalism is exploitation. If you don’t understand that you don’t know what capitalism is. Which most Americans don’t know what capitalism is, so that’s just normal.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j77n1ca wrote

I mean it’s ironic when you clearly don’t know what capitalism is. Capitalism has its faults, just like communism…

But what you’re describing is the economic system of mercantilism and colonialism. Which Americans don’t realize for some reason capitalism replaced in the 19th century

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77nrxr wrote

Communism is a theoretical concept of what comes after socialism. Nobody knows exactly what that looks like but we have a general idea of what it can look like.

We know exactly what capitalism is because it’s the current system.

Mercantilism is late stage feudalism. As fascism is late stage capitalism.

You 100% don’t know what capitalism. You can’t have capitalism without exploitation. It simply doesn’t work without exploitation. Not all socioeconomic political systems require exploitation.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j77oo9t wrote

That’s just wrong at a basic level. Have you ever taken a course on macroeconomics?

Socialism is a vague term that has no meaning and everyone applies it to what they want. Communists all called their countries socialist, and you’re naive as fuck if you think communism hasn’t been tried

capitalism, real capitalism in the vein of Adam Smith; is anti-exploitative and urges equality of opportunity. Like he said “the measure of a society’s wealth isn’t the gold in a kings vault but the prosperity and well being of its people”

Communism, like fascism, is inherently authoritarian by nature.

Anyone advocating to replace our failed economic system with an even worse one is naive at best and an arrogant idiot at worst.

Social democracy is the way to go. Capitalist free markets with socialist government services. But you’ll probably make a comment all the lines of “that’s why we call you a succ dem hehe” right?

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77pb0k wrote

You 100% have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re so wrong it’s not even worth continuing trying to inform you.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j77po40 wrote

I love comments like this, it confirms you don’t really know anything past high school level about macroeconomic systems and you need to tap out.

It’s okay, just say “uncle”

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77qed2 wrote

You’ve definitely only taken High-school level economics.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j77qpug wrote

Tell yourself that if you need to…. It’s know it false and doesn’t make this argument any less embarrassing for you

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77ttp6 wrote

Your arguments are common for kids in High-school. In no way are they embarrassing. Just common.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j7876do wrote

It’s funny how I know you’re lying, since I attended a top-10 ranked public school and only learned the very surface-level definitions that can easily be confused like you guys have then.

It wasn’t until college, and not just college but college focused on macroeconomic systems, that I learned what I just shared with you.

Take a class, it might help you understand better than I can

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Chitownitl20 t1_j78g6ea wrote

Lol, top ranked High school.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j78i6e4 wrote

Yeah… those exist.

Quality of public school education varies greatly by state.

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Chitownitl20 t1_j78ifxj wrote

You’re bragging about a High-school education. This is how I know you’re at least old enough to be still in High-school, but also a high probability you’re still in middle school about to go into HS.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j78yzaq wrote

You’re failing to use reading comprehension to actually read my comment properly. That’s how I know you’re education failed you at every level. But let me break down what just happened for you

-you claimed that my detailed comment was only “what you’d learn in high school”

-I explained that in one of americas best high schools, you don’t learn all that, you learn a very surface level definition of all these things. Thus I know you’re lying when you say your high school in America taught you any of that

-I then explained that I learned this while getting my degree in college

-you somehow got confused and keep falling back on “yOuRe BrAgGiNg AbOuT a HiGh ScHoOl!” And still not comprehending what was actually said to you

Unless you happened to go to one of 8 specific schools in this country, you did not learn any of that in high school, and you talking out of your ass when you say “ThAtS hIgH sChOoL lEvEl StUfF!”

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Chitownitl20 t1_j78znoh wrote

No I’m not saying you learned anything in high school. Your ignorance is reminiscent of high school level ignorance. It would make sense that you’re about to go To this top 8 school.

And you should be proud of getting in! Good for you! It’s worth celebrating!

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77rc70 wrote

This is an example of a gishgallop. You’ve got so many wrong things in this statement it would take hours to debunk.

The funnest part is you do “no true capitalism” & “no true communism”

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j77sll4 wrote

Yup we’ve never had capitalism or communism in their purest ideological forms. Because that’s how reality works, you have to account for good and bad actors existing and create a system that promotes transparency and democracy. Extremist left and right economic systems both discourage that form of political system

Both sides of you extremists, communists on the left and fascists on the right, are equally as misinformed, destructive, and arrogant in your ignorance.

On the right the fascists have become mainstream so they’re the concerning priority. But all these kids post-2016 who have graduated shitty high schools thinking they should be communist and never being able to afford college education to learn better (thanks to Republicans) like you is a real concern for the future

Try to actually state your economic plans, instead of just making substance less snarky quips. It’s high school behavior and it’s time to grow up

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77t6vx wrote

More gishgallop and more evidence you’ve not taken any college level courses in economics, political science, or any other sociological science.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j77tpn1 wrote

Wrong 🤣

Just a pro tip The debate strategy of “I’m rubber you’re glue, whatever you throw bounces of me and sticks to you” is not actually a respected debate strategy outside of gradeschool

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77v21q wrote

Lol. This isn’t a debate. But thank you for clarifying that you think this is. That explains your gishgallop.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j786x4y wrote

When you’re trying to win other readers over to your ideology, it’s a debate

Idgaf what you think, I give a fuck what ideas the readers of this convo come away from it with. And it seems I’ve succeeding in stopping your ignorance from spreading any further today

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Chitownitl20 t1_j78ga0p wrote

No. Lol. None of that is correct.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j78i34w wrote

Great retort. Full of depth, just like those of your comrades

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Chitownitl20 t1_j78i5lb wrote

Definitely age appropriate for you.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j78ieqx wrote

You’re almost definitely high school age or near it, like the vast majority of tankies

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Chitownitl20 t1_j78imh5 wrote

“Everyone to the left that disagrees with me is a communist” your republican parents influence is leaking.

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ItsAlwaysSmokyInReno t1_j78y5e5 wrote

“Republican parents”

That gave me quite a laugh.

The truth is I’m about as far left as you can be without being a tankie.

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PM_ur_Rump t1_j77idzk wrote

I'd say it's more that many humans are exploitive and have found ways to use capitalism to exploit people, just as happens under every system. It's not an necessary part of capitalism. In theory, everyone works and adds to the economy what they can and receives from it in kind. But the world is not perfect, and people love to exploit whatever they can.

I'm personally a communist in theory, but a realist in practice, and see that communism is just as much or more prone to exploitation in practice. It's basically the same idea of "everyone works, everyone thrives" but with a community centered thought process instead of a self centered one.

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77jv88 wrote

You fundamentally don’t know what capitalism is.

If your labor provides a good or service, you are not a capitalist.

Without exploitation you can’t have shareholder profits.

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Kill_Frosty t1_j76qrxz wrote

No they aren’t. One of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read. Just another teenager angry at making minimum wage blaming the “system” for everything

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77fqqh wrote

I’m a business owner. I do the exploiting first hand. Everyone that works for me has a worse economic situation that I exploit.

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Kill_Frosty t1_j77gos5 wrote

And how does this lead to sexual exploitation? Why does it happen in other countries without capitalism, in every culture and civilization in history of human’s?

No it must be capitalism

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77iap3 wrote

How does a culture that promotes exploitation lead to more exploitation?

You can’t be serious?

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Kill_Frosty t1_j77pfeo wrote

No, how does exploitation happen regardless of how society is built?

Correlation does not imply causation. This is reddit though so keep raging against that machine.

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77q8ni wrote

Exploitation requires imbalance of power. Because we don’t recognize personal property and we have a capitalist legal system, most public property and 100% of personal property is legally categorized as private property.

All property is categorized into private or public property in capitalist legal system. We don’t recognize personal property rights, you go to work at a public company you don’t automatically have equal rights with every worker there over the profits of your labor. The capitalist has legal rights over that.

So you have to use your labor to profit, to be exploited, while the capitalist doesn’t have to work a day in his life gets to hire someone to negotiate against you from a position of privileged ownership under threat of starvation.

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Kill_Frosty t1_j77qv45 wrote

Why are you repeating this over and over? Yes I know the system is fucked up if you aren’t at the top.

My point however is that this problem exists regardless of system. The assertion that us growing up in this system leads to sexual abuse is asinine and stupid af. This is of course because this has happened in every form of society and government ever. Why? Because humans will ALWAYS form power groups, always.

Edit: OP is a libertarian. All makes sense

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Chitownitl20 t1_j77u9zx wrote

I’m a social democrat, which is a traditional leftwing libertarian.

Human nature is to defy our natural instinctual thoughts and instead use logical reasoning. It’s what separates us from animals.

Exploitation is naturally animal instinct. It requires power imbalances.

It’s a wild state. We are not doomed to it.

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AlanFromRochester t1_j75v3ve wrote

also, there a lot of people trying to make it, so the talent doesn't have as much leverage plus it can be a judgment call who makes it. perverts could abuse that discretion and pretend the decision was a subjective assessment of talent

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MoJax25 t1_j75vnvw wrote

I just spoke about this with my partner earlier today. I wasn’t anywhere near elite level sports but played multiple sports since around 5 years old until graduating college, and we were often alone with grown men on the coaching staff in locker rooms, during practices or waiting for our parents to pick us up after practice, conditioning, games, PT and very often for away summer sports tournaments with the teams.

My parents were super supportive and one of them was pretty much always able to come to 99% of my games, I never had to wait for hours and hours to get picked up and I was still alone with several different male coaches fairly often. Thankfully, my coaches weren’t creeps and never tried anything but now that I’m an adult, I see how “easy” (and I hate that this is best word I could of) it would’ve been for a coach to be completely inappropriate, predatory and take advantage of the power dynamic.

Glad that the victims are able to speak out and hopefully get justice.

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greenweezyi t1_j76r1jn wrote

For real though. I played on the boys golf team in high school and loved every competitive second of it. The teammates and coach all “protected” me in case someone tried picking on me. I was extremely fortunate.

But looking back, my mom essentially sent me into the woods with boys. It could’ve gone very wrong but luckily it was a great time

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Arntor1184 t1_j77x3rf wrote

Any time you have dedicated and passionate people so close to their dreams it’s also easy to leverage them. It’s why you see this so much in high end corporate gigs, schools, and video gaming as well as sports. If you take someone to an inch of their goal then say “well idk, maybe I need something out of this” you have a ton of leverage to facilitate abuse.

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lifeofideas t1_j75o87e wrote

Where do they find all the time to actually do the sex trafficking? Aren’t they busy coaching elite athletes?

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gonewild9676 t1_j76k64u wrote

There's lots of traveling involved going to meets plus they are together a lot. There's also a power dynamic where the coach is highly respected and there's a line of athletes waiting to use their services and if you don't do everything they say then you'll be replaced.

Plus there's a lot of grooming involved and they start slowly to make it seem normal and then cross boundaries. At that point the athlete assumes that if they complain that they won't be taken seriously and it will be the end of their careers.

It's similar with modeling. It might start with modeling jeans. Then they are told they can make more money modeling swim suits. Then underwear. Then model these panties but cover your breasts with your arms. Now just your hands, and it devolves from there. Then once they have topless pictures they threaten revenge porn and they are trapped.

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