PM_ur_Rump

PM_ur_Rump t1_ja9oemf wrote

I only brought it up because the guy I'm talking about was specifically talking about it in terms of simple odds, not arguing the fact that air travel is a very complex thing.

It was very much an application of the gambler's fallacy to a real world event, one that has extremely hard to quantify odds with countless variables to begin with.

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PM_ur_Rump t1_ja9m8vr wrote

The odds of two planes crashing while flying in/out the same airport on the same day are far lower than the odds of a single plane crashing while flying in/out of that airport.

But.....

The odds of a plane crashing via that airport are not any lower after a plane has already crashed there, assuming in this hypothetical that plane crashes have specific odds and are not very complex events that are extremely hard to actually put "odds" on.

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PM_ur_Rump t1_ja9kw7z wrote

The odds that they win twice in a lifetime is much more unlikely than the odds they win once.

But after they won once, the odds of winning again are exactly the same as if they had never won.

Think of the dice example. There is a one in six chance of rolling a specific number. Rolling again, there is still a one in six chance of rolling that same number. The number of sides hasn't changed, the number you chose didn't magically disappear.

The odds only change if you bet that you will roll two in a row before the first roll, because you are now betting on both events before they happen, not on a single event happening. The events themselves have no influence on each other.

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PM_ur_Rump t1_ja8cqu5 wrote

Yes, but that was not the conversation we were having.

And the grounding of whole fleets based on one event immediately after it has happened without reason to think it was a flaw in the design of the aircraft itself is not exactly common. When a plane overshoots the runway on landing due to pilot error, they don't ground entire fleets of that airframe.

Planes crashing is very complex thing and the "odds" are as well. It's not remotely static like dice.

That part was also part of the conversation I had with the guy in trying to explain the concept of odds to him.

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PM_ur_Rump t1_ja8c0jd wrote

Again, this discussion was very much about simple odds, not the complex odds of all the multiple factors. Dude even ironically used the words "gambler's fallacy" to describe what he thought I was doing by saying that one outcome does not effect the next.

In the real world, yes, there are connections between complex events like plane crashes, and the "odds" aren't static like dice.

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PM_ur_Rump t1_ja8ad7h wrote

Or it could go down as everyone involved is now being more cautious.

I forget the exact scenario that inspired the conversation, but the person I was arguing with was definitely talking about the "odds" in the context of simple odds in the manner of "if a one in a million chance thing just happened, it's now probably closer to one in two million it happens again."

Odds only change when directly linked.

So if you are gambling on a dice roll and you bet that it will land on six, it's a one in six chance. If it does, and you bet on six again, the odds are still just one in six.

To change the odds, you would need to bet that it lands on six twice, because now you have linked the two rolls before they happen.

In the case of the plane crash, the odds of two planes crashing for independent reasons on the same day, involving the same airport, are much higher than a single plane crashing. Unfortunately for our hypothetical travellers, one plane already crashed, bringing the odds back down to the standard single-event odds.

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PM_ur_Rump t1_ja87fj5 wrote

I remember arguing with someone about this regarding seeing a plane crash at an airport and then getting on another plane. Others were talking about how they wouldn't get on their own flight after seeing that. This person said that it would make them feel safer, because "what are the odds that two planes crash on the same day?" I said they weren't getting on two planes though, they were getting on one, and the odds of one plane crashing didn't change when another crashed (of course assuming that all plane flights are equal).

The irrational mind sees a plane crash and goes "Fuck that, I'm not getting on a plane now, it's likely to crash."

The rational mind says "what are the odds of two planes crashing?"

The reality is somewhere in between. The chance was always there, but it didn't go up or down simply because this event occured.

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