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server_busy t1_ir2sgyh wrote

I heard he put pliers and lead balls in the pieces to make them heavier

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jorge1209 t1_ir58id0 wrote

When the queen captured a pawn, he actually shoved the pawn down the queen's throat.

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wonkey_monkey t1_ir6mk8n wrote

He had a partner standing behind Carlsen and signalling what pieces he had.

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Doomdoomkittydoom t1_irtli2b wrote

There were at least 57 instances over the course of those 100 games he exclaimed, "Oh my god, what is THAT?!?!" but there was nothing over where he was pointing.

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jl_theprofessor t1_ir38bd9 wrote

Oh this is fascinating. So Magnus wasn't bullshitting. Not that it would have been like him to do so, but the fact that it's bearing out is crazy.

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sudifirjfhfjvicodke t1_ir3h9t9 wrote

Yeah, I don't follow competitive chess at all, so when I first heard about the allegations, I just rolled my eyes and figured Carlsen was just a huge crybaby. But the more I read about this, the more I'm convinced that he knew exactly what he was talking about.

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quick20minadventure t1_ir53029 wrote

Magnus is the top most authority on how humans play chess. He is not just gifted, he works insanely hard and he got to the top by being extremely unforgiving and harsh on himself when he made mistakes.

The idea that magnus was being a crybaby was always a joke for people familiar. And he's completely justified in drawing a line and saying he'll not play against people who cheated online or offline repeatedly.

His response and chess.com report are both extremely nuanced and very professional. People just got impatient.

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jorge1209 t1_ir52fy4 wrote

Carlsen may have had insider information from chess.com due to a financial transaction between his chess website and chess.com.

I don't know the terms of that deal or if it was all cash or had some stock involved.

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ethan52695 t1_ir4pm7m wrote

Well to be fair the article really only provided strong evidence for him cheating online. Much of which he admitted to. They found irregularities in his over the board play and with his rise in ranking, but it’s still possible that he wasn’t cheating when playing against magnus. That being said it definitely doesn’t look good for him. From what I’ve read there has been a lot of speculation from many top players in the chess community that he had been cheating for some time.

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McKFC t1_ir51kgv wrote

>Much of which he admitted to.

He admitted to cheating when he was 12 and 16. This is far beyond the scope, which is the newsworthy part, because it shows that he continues to lie about cheating in the past.

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quick20minadventure t1_ir52glq wrote

Dude said he cheated twice at 12 and 16 year old in insignificant games when there was no cash prize, no streaming and 'no real matches'.

All off them were proved wrong. He cheated a lot more, much more recently and in much more serious competition.

Magnus was 100% right when he said hans cheated more and more recently than he admitted to.

It's one thing to cheat in random game, another to cheat in prizepool events and entirely another thing to downplay cheating you already confessed about on live television and insult people who gave you second chance.

I read 72 page report, hans cheated a lot and fucked up massively. Only thing helping him is that chess.com explicitly says that they don't have expertise in catching longer format and over the board cheating because they usually deal with short online games only.

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RageA333 t1_ir5dtwg wrote

How do we know he cheated beyond that? Edit: beyond when he was 12 and 16

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quick20minadventure t1_ir5easu wrote

Chess.com has listed 100 games. Their evidence has been concrete enough that he confessed as well. He said he had to cheat to gain more viewers and followers online in email with chess.com and Chess.com published that email.

He confessed that he made conscious decision to cheat against top players to gain followers on twitch/streaming.

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Oscar-Wilde-1854 t1_ir5f14h wrote

It's one of those things where it doesn't really matter at this point. It's essentially the "once a cheater, always a cheater" mantra.

Imagine a professional athlete getting caught doping. Like Lance Armstrong in cycling. Then imagine they just let him compete in the Tour de France the year after and he dominates again.

No amount of blood testing would ever make people believe Lance isn't cheating somehow. He proved he was a cheater and he proved he could get away with it under scrutiny.

Same thing here. It's been proven he's cheated and a lot more than he admitted to when questioned. Thus he's "a cheater".

He may legitimately be worthy of the rank he holds these days, but no opponent (or fan) will trust him ever again. Does chess as a whole want a world champion who might be a cheater? Nope.

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shaggypotato0917 t1_ir51kdj wrote

Nothing against most of your comment, I just want to point out that he actually hasn't admitted to most of his cheating, especially if the article is to be believed.

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Sendstorepatter t1_ir4x7x9 wrote

I think the fact that people think he might have used a USB connected bum dildo that vibrated his next moves is hilarious to me. Like "C3, bzzzt bzt bzt bzt".

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[deleted] t1_ir56eru wrote

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[deleted] t1_ir59oq5 wrote

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[deleted] t1_ir5a3he wrote

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revgames_atte t1_ir5hqar wrote

  1. Big drama drops about Hans' past as a cheater on Chess.com after Magnus withdraws from the tournament and rumors start spreading (from sources other than Magnus)

  2. Chess.com boots him due to his participation while there is ongoing cheating related drama possibly lowering the faith of players and spectators in the million dollar tournament

  3. Hans "confesses" to his past cheating while downplaying what he was caught for and admitted to.

  4. Chess.com shows receipts.

Chess.com involvement didn't start from Magnus withdrawing from the tournament. It started after many big figures started speculating and making it more widespread knowledge that Hans does indeed have a past of cheating on the site.

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TheOneWithNoName t1_ir3hpmy wrote

Magnus still may not be justified. He accused Hans of cheating in live over-the-board matches and has provided exactly 0 proof of this. This article is only about his online history, though it is pretty damning to Hans reputation either way.

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jimdotcom413 t1_ir3swdw wrote

Did he not resign out of protest in that match because he knows what a cheater Hans is and refused to play against him? There was one move in that match so it’s not like you could accuse the person of cheating in that match alone.

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TheOneWithNoName t1_ir3tep2 wrote

Magnus had played against Hans several times before with knowledge that he was an online cheater, but only refused to play him after losing a match. He quit that match after one move because he was suspicious of their previous games.

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politickinninja t1_ir47nuz wrote

You're thinking of the second game(online), after Magnus got his ass whooped in the first(OTB).

Hans cheated online and probably shouldn't be allowed in online tournaments but there is 0 evidence of him cheating OTB.

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elpajaroquemamais t1_ir4xplc wrote

He didn’t quit because he was cheating in that particular game. He quit after a move. He quit because he didn’t want to be beat by someone who could be cheating.

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Morkins324 t1_ir62gcp wrote

I feel like Magnus is reasonably justified regardless. He might not have actual proof of Hans cheating OTB, but he probably was reasonably aware of the repeated cheating online. And then he played a game against Hans OTB where Hans made some strange moves that seem more like engine moves rather than human moves(given Hans rating). I feel like that was enough to create a situation where Magnus is reasonably justified in pulling out of that tournament. Even if he can't prove what happened in the OTB game and even if Hans wasn't actually cheating in the OTB game, I don't blame Magnus for not wanting to play against Hans. He is already suspicious of Hans going into the match given the online history, and then had a weird match OTB...

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Fistfullafives t1_ir3iur0 wrote

Hans has put up wayyyyyy too many 100% perfect games, which just doesn't happen. Bobby Fisher at his best couldn't do it, Magnus couldn't do it, it just can't be done to that extent. Short 100% MAYBE, but a 40+ move game just isn't happening. Magnus knows pretty much every move from every game ever, and if he says Hans is playing like he's being fed moves, he's likely 100% correct. With Hans record, I am in full support of Magnus and hope Hans just gets perma banned from all events.

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Doggleganger t1_ir4apb0 wrote

Anyone who gets busted cheating, even once, should be permanently banned. It is hard to catch and should not be tolerated at all. There is no excuse for it either.

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tcellsrus t1_ir5dj5y wrote

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/xphk1a/cmv_professional_chess_players_caught_cheating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

​

would like your thoughts and responses to other comments in this link... thank you :)

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Fistfullafives t1_ir5fds3 wrote

Too toxic... You can't string together multiple perfect games, and he's done that much more recently than "as a kid". Hikaru has a great video about all his shady matches. He should never be allowed to compete again imo.

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[deleted] t1_ir5hdvx wrote

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Fistfullafives t1_ir5icub wrote

Pro games and tournaments happen online, so that should still carry the same weight as OTB. What part of him having perfect games is incorrect? He's even talked about his 45 move perfect game (in an Arabic accent for whatever reason). He's had 10 perfect games and 23 over 90% that I know of...

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smoothtrip t1_ir385zt wrote

I heard he was using two queens and the only reason they found out is one of the queens got tipped over revealing it was not a king

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NenPame t1_ir4egsr wrote

Is that a vagina on that chess piece!!?? Quick arrest that man

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danofrhs t1_ir4js2f wrote

Comprehensive full body searches with xrays & cavity searches. play in an isolated room where they rematch completely naked. Must be done. Also something should be done to prevent him from cheating

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JSmooth94 t1_ir5m6pd wrote

I think the best method to prevent cheating is to have both players pinky swear.

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william-o t1_ir3crao wrote

How does he cheat in real games? Sorry got paywall'd. Is it some kind of electronic transmitter

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Momentosis t1_ir3zgfm wrote

From what I've read, just knowing that there are critical moves at play greatly affects the flow of games.

So they have someone/a team of people watching the game and when there are certain moves available to push the game in the player's favor, they get a cue. Either someone gives them a signal somewhere in the audience or through other means(like an anal vibrator).

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Sick_Breh t1_ir5f8mk wrote

So like the astros banging a trash can to signal which pitch is thrown

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DragoonXNucleon t1_ir5ho1c wrote

Classical games can last between 1 and 5 hours. Players will often "have a think" where they go and ruminate on a single move for 15 minutes because they have to calculate the move and all possibilities after it, which can include hundreds of resulting combinations.

During this time they often leave the board, walk, pace, smoke. They have to do it in approved areas without speaking to anyone, but 15m is a longtime to send a signal.

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Sick_Breh t1_ir5idye wrote

Damn lol, that is quite the amount of time. I’ve never gotten into chess so this shows some light.

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BrappZanniganAgain t1_ir502ka wrote

Is it like a team of people is better at coming up with the next move as opposed to one person who is competing? I just don’t understand why if there’s someone who knows enough that they can feed him plays why doesn’t that person just play and win without cheating?

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shryke12 t1_ir52a2v wrote

Generally you have the board set up and see what move a top AI would do on your turn. Top AIs are unbeatable at chess because they play perfect.

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william-o t1_ir524v3 wrote

Cheaters are pathological liars who are willing to destroy the validity of the sport they claim to love, for their own personal benefit. you really don't need to justify it beyond that

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cowking81 t1_ir52dn7 wrote

That team is playing along using a top level computer to generate the best next move. If there is a really good move that’s not obvious they alert the player and the player will look deeper. For a skilled player, this is a huge edge as it allows them to look past the obvious ok or good move for the hidden great one

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neighborhood-chad OP t1_ir5caax wrote

Cheaters in chess use a chess engine - essentially AI bots for chess, and the best engines are well clear of the best players on the planet easily capable of beating them 100/100 times. So someone is probably running the game through a computer and relaying the best computer moves to hans, if he’s cheating on the board that is.

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ethan52695 t1_ir4ptd2 wrote

If he did cheat irl, it’s speculated that it probably would have only been a couple moves at critical points, which for top level players can make all the difference. How he got the information could have been done in several different ways. He could have had a hidden ear piece, signals from the crowd, or some sort of small vibrating machine which the world seems to be convinced would have been in the form of vibrating anal beeds.

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DragoonXNucleon t1_ir5im90 wrote

He's a legit GM without cheating. So to cheat he needs a minimum simply the name of the piece. At his level simply knowing which piece is likely enough for him to know what move to make. At most you need a 3 letter signal. Kc3, bg7, re1. Morse code, or even a single number can be enough to queue him.

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McKFC t1_ir51xov wrote

There was an excellent comment about the various possible methods of cheating irl (to add to your list, distant sounds like car horns, light reflected through any window) that make it impossible to prevent.

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Alfred-Fallon-Borden t1_ir4jh9r wrote

There still isn’t evidence that he cheated irl, and because it would be so hard to detect if done right there likely never will be even if he did

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TheRealZllim t1_ir3gitq wrote

Well, rumor has it he was playing with vibrating anal beads, yes you read that right, that would vibrate, in his butt, through input from another party who was playing his exact moves against a computer and signaling the computer players moves to Mr. Anal Beads.

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TheOkGazoo t1_ir3nt91 wrote

That rumor started from a joke someone made in a twitch streamer's chat.

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OathOfFeanor t1_ir5lpk2 wrote

And yet it is just as proven as any of the other accusations (no proof of any of this, just a statistical anomaly that suggests it)

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jorge1209 t1_ir3ids2 wrote

That is the most salacious (and therefore most popular) version of the rumor, but the original version I heard was something in a shoe or a pocket or something.

It could very well have been a sex toy in a shoe or pocket, as those are readily available cheap haptic devices designed for some amount of discretion, but there is no particular reason why it would have to be worn up ones butt. They don't exactly perform strip searches on chess players before competitions.

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wooodaben t1_ir3xtli wrote

I don’t know why the downvotes. Some people just can’t handle the truth

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MailOrderDog t1_ir3p4hd wrote

When he arrived for the last match, his opponent was not ready yet so they told him to weight in the rear.

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TroutWarrior t1_ir428c9 wrote

Can someone explain to me how you cheat in Chess? I'm genuinely curious.

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Zanydrop t1_ir4chtr wrote

Have your friends watch the game and use computers to analyse it. Then they send you messages in morse code over remote control vibrating anal beads.

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Able-Waltz t1_ir47p8t wrote

Computers are better than the best players in the world. You ask a computer and follow it's moves. When playing online, you can have a bunch of cues to tell you what to do without making it super obvious that you are cheating. Which is why the anal vibrator thing became a meme.

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Derron_ t1_ir4ot8w wrote

Chess engines are stronger than people at playing chess because they can calculate layers deeper than humans. The highest rated human is 2856. We think the rating for the best chess engine is 3500 but it's a guess. So the accusations again Niemann are that he would occassionally change tabs to a copy of the game and use the engine moves to give himself an advantage. He doesn't need to follow it the whole game, just enough to put himself ahead of his opponent.

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Drinkus t1_ir42oz9 wrote

Use a computer one way or another (or get assistance from a better human player)

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percydaman t1_ir5c54u wrote

Cheaters almost always also lie. So I never believed a word the dude said. Even if we don't really know 100% if he cheated, I think he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Once a liar, always a liar.

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futuredoc70 t1_ir3fepn wrote

Was it really in the way that I've heard it rumored?

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AtGamesEnd t1_ir4ovod wrote

Is this the guy that was using a butt vibrator to be fed information?

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elfelettem t1_ir4quo3 wrote

Even if it turns out not to be the case I think he is now, and for the rest of his life, destined to be known as "that cheat with the anal beads"

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mortonr2000 t1_ir4xa0x wrote

Common on, its only Chess. Let the guy off with castration and 20 years hard labour.

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yellowbin74 t1_ir5k2hn wrote

Eli5- how do you cheat at chess? (Genuine question)

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bloated_canadian t1_ir5k3lo wrote

Chess.com states that he likely cheated over 100 times two years ago and thus that is why he was banned from the service. However it was out of the jurisdiction to guess if any cheating occurred in OTB games.

A quick tldr for people who wont read the article regardless.

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MGRPWEST t1_ir5mqkx wrote

He hid the device in the only place he could. His ass.

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slp034000 t1_irh6brl wrote

Chess Investigation is the name of my band

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[deleted] t1_ir4iswm wrote

[deleted]

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megalomike t1_ir56v5d wrote

he cheated online. chess dot com compared his stats when toggling windows vs not toggling. they don't know what he was looking at but if it was pornhub or facebook or whatever the expectation is he would have worse performance when toggling, not better.

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[deleted] t1_ir5o10u wrote

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megalomike t1_ir5oyso wrote

if that's all he did it's probably not going to help him in a live game but it affects his rating which then affects a lot of other stuff.

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neighborhood-chad OP t1_ir5qe51 wrote

He cheated in prize money events. But the fact that a top level player is cheating is enough to warrant the outburst imo bc engines are really just that good

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eledad1 t1_ir53v7l wrote

Unless there is concrete proof, this is defamation and they are liable.

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Audityne t1_ir5a3m0 wrote

There is concrete evidence. They published a 72 page report detailing it. Did you even read the article lmao

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[deleted] t1_ir2w8so wrote

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jorge1209 t1_ir3k4v6 wrote

It makes about as much sense as having car racing in /r/sports. I would tend to say neither should be in, but if they allow the one they should allow the other.

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