Greene County Sherriffs Department committing arson against the homeless population

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Submitted by the_honeyman t3_10zte6m in springfieldMO

What kind of idiot thinks burning tents and what little possessions these people have will solve anything? Congratulations, you've made it even harder to escape the homelessness cycle. Which, I guess is the point for 70% of the people around here, when watching somebody get actual help results in tantrums of "why don't I get free shit?!"

Seriously. My 6 year old is working on that lesson now. Grow the fuck up.

Edit: try this link

Edit 2: you have to click "open in browser." Apps don't redirect properly it seems.

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Cold417 t1_j86nu77 wrote

[evidence required]

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the_honeyman OP t1_j87tmmn wrote

Click the link

Edit: Link's broken. Hold on

Edit 2: Link's not broken. Just "open in browser."

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Cold417 t1_j88s2hs wrote

That's not evidence.

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Ok_Professor2620 t1_j88w1xd wrote

If you need evidence, why don’t you go volunteer with those experiencing houselessness and hear their first hand experiences. Otherwise, shut up. This is been ongoing for weeks, and there has been multiple articles of the police forcibly removing these people from the only “home” they have.

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Cold417 t1_j89f8y8 wrote

If it's been going on for weeks, it should be easy to get evidence. I am listening, but I'm not raising my pitchfork without proof.

It seems pretty risky for uniformed officers to bust down a camp and leave it on fire.

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fphillips93 t1_j8bbu0h wrote

Isn’t it illegal now for them to just set up camps wherever they want to?

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VaderTower t1_j8bdkn8 wrote

Technically it's always been illegal if the landowners have asked them to leave. Simply trespassing.

That being said efforts have ramped up, but I thought it was only focused on enforcement of homeless sleeping/living on public property which doesn't fly anymore.

On one hand, I feel for those displaced and just trying to find somewhere to sleep for the night. On the other if it's my building, property, etc. I don't want people trashing it, making my property into a shanty town. I'm sure this statement will be unpopular, but I truly don't know of anyone offering their backyards up to homeless to camp on. It's easy to say those with a bunch of land shouldn't feel disturbed if homeless camp on one acre. But equally if you feel that way, you shouldn't be annoyed if homeless come and camp in your backyard.

We have systems in place, shelters, food pantries, etc. in place precisely for these people. The problem most of the time is the shelters have strict rules and curfews which don't go well with their lives. Likewise what is really needed is more mental health support.

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fphillips93 t1_j8bdspk wrote

I guess I didn’t realize they were on someone’s land, and not the city’s or the state’s.

The shelters around here don’t jive with their lives because they are mostly homeless by choice of drugs/alcohol they refuse to give up.

Your statement may be unpopular to some, but it’s the truth. I have plenty of grass a few homeless could camp on, but doesn’t mean they are welcome. I work waaaaaaaaaay too hard to have the meager shit I do have, to allow someone who does nothing with themself to have free access to it. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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notnotpegbundy t1_j89xdah wrote

because they are entitled to someone else’s property? Im genuinely trying to understand how people think socialism could ever actually work.

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ghenghis_could t1_j9ohvrs wrote

I don't have the app and it automatically opens in browser....there is no link

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Benway23 t1_j86srqv wrote

I dislike cops as much as any reasonable person but I'm gonna need some citations please.

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the_honeyman OP t1_j87tldn wrote

The link is to Christy Love's status about the whole thing, she's the leading advocate for the homeless community in the area.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10227836331829475&id=1105524839&mibextid=Nif5oz

Edit: if you're using an app, you have to click "open in browser."

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Always_0421 t1_j898muj wrote

Someone else saying the same thing you're saying on a facebook page isn't the evidence people are looking for.

A video, or a statement from the Sheriff's office comfirmimg these tactics would be good proof.

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EcoAffinity t1_j899p38 wrote

Christie Love isn't just "somebody". She's the founder and Pastor of The Connecting Grounds. Many would argue she is the leading knowledgeable expert on homelessness in Springfield, and she and her church are integral to any effective outreach initiatives. Her entire church is for the purpose of service. She led the effort to find other churches and places to open their doors during that insane freeze before Christmas.

She's not making anything up for internet clout. She is a trustworthy leader who lives to serve, particularly for North Springfield.

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Always_0421 t1_j89ca2k wrote

Ok, the arguably leading moat knowledgeable expert on homelessness in springfield making an unsubstantiated claim, still remains unsubstatiated.

You're reading the skepticism of many here on both sides of the issue.

When people ask for evidence, they aren't asking for an opinion or an appeal to authority, but I suspect you already understand that.

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EcoAffinity t1_j89dmsf wrote

So, you are not believing the claims of the victims until the assailant confirms them. This isn't the first time service providers have been notified by homeless groups that their belongings have been doused in gasoline and set on fire by law enforcement. And we've already had instances this year where the sheriff has illegally destroyed camps without the 24 hr notice required within Springfield limits. Or posting photos from a different raid months ago when releasing a public statement. This sheriff is extremely shady, particularly when it comes to the homeless because the larger public chooses to not support these folks and allows their handling to go unchecked.

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Always_0421 t1_j89dqxy wrote

Im saying people are asking for proof of these claims and you're citing a facebook post (from a self described activist)

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EcoAffinity t1_j89ejue wrote

It's not a "Facebook post", but the direct relay of information provided from the homeless individuals whose belongings were burned to service folks who have boots on the ground every day with these groups and know them as equals and friends.

You are choosing instead to wait to see what the Sheriff's narrative will be concerning these atrocities despite them having a repeated history of such similar acts.

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Always_0421 t1_j89hsxv wrote

>It's not a "Facebook post"

This is the link you posted as an offer of evidence or proof: "https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10227836331829475&id=1105524839&mibextid=Nif5oz"

This is quite literally a facebook post.

I'm not saying it has to be a press release or narrative from the sheriff's office (although they'd surely have public record of such, if someone wanted to take the time to substantiate a serious claim like this), but that'd be one form of evidence most would accept.

Alternative a video or pictures might convince some who are skeptical as well; this has reportedly been going on for weeks and the claims being made have no proof to substantiate them.

Im just saying when you're making a serious claim like this, and people ask for evidence of your claim, a facebook post from a self identified activist isn't going to sway many, if any.

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EcoAffinity t1_j8djziu wrote

I haven't posted any links, and your link doesn't work for me. However, Christie's original Facebook post does have video with it. It happened over the weekend, the Sheriff's department will likely respond sometime this week, as they tend to stretch several days before reporting on actions against the homeless.

While you're trying to champion for the sheriff's office, it's clear you choose to or are just generally ignorant of their actions. They made press releases several times over the last couple months regarding homeless raids, and, again, just recently did a press release on a raid in January while using pictures from a raid during the summer. It changes the optics when you show photos of nice warm green areas being "cleared out" and not the reality of camps and personal belongings being destroyed in the dead of winter.

Congratulations on editing your other post multiple hours after your initial hard-hitting comment of

>Im.sayimg people are asking for proof of these claims and you're citing a facebook post.

Yeah, an activist (who's a religious leader and literally started her church to help the homeless and is one of the most effective outreach initiatives in Springfield) automatically debunks the claim. The police, and Sheriff Jim Arnott are so much more Christ-like and genuinely good folks who do nothing but out of the goodness of their own hearts and never try to push a hate-filled agenda against those "different" from Jim Arnott. Ignorant.

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Always_0421 t1_j8dkv7f wrote

The claim being made is about arson and destroying private private. I haven't seen a video of this. If there is please share it.

Also. Believe me, I am no champion of the sheriff's office.

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Benway23 t1_j89nb33 wrote

Damn, link is gone for me. But, I absolutely believe every word.

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the_honeyman OP t1_j89ng7h wrote

Open it in your regular browser. Or, just search Facebook for Christie Love. It's one of her statuses.

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Ozarksmetalhead t1_j87yfpe wrote

I would argue these individuals have a claim against GCSO for damage to their property. If they had been arrested, their personal belongings would’ve had to be gathered, inventoried, and returned to them upon release. This is at minimum a civil rights violation. I’d like to see that issue pressed.

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Glittering-Bake-2589 t1_j86rn8c wrote

Could you post another link? That one doesn’t work. Or at least name the page where you found this?

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PalPubPull t1_j874cm0 wrote

Here is the text. The reference is from a user on Facebook who seems to be a local advocate for the homeless

"Tonight I drove through hazy streets that still smelled of smoke to find several displaced individuals to talk to them about this video captured by a volunteer and advocate. The video matched a story I had heard from several other people at other campsites over the last couple of weeks, so I asked them to tell me their story.

Those I spoke to separately shared the same details that led to the images you are seeing.

Three deputies from the Greene County Sherrif Department came to a campsite carrying gas cans. They told residents that they had two minutes to get out of camp. Residents scrambled to grab belongings and get out of tents.

They watched as deputies (two males and a female) poured gasoline onto their homes. They watched as deputies grabbed additional items lying on the ground and tossed them back into the tents; that they then set on fire.

Most residents shared that they escaped with only the clothes on their backs. They watched as their medicine, sleeping bags, blankets, a brand new heater, vital documents, food stamp cards, and food went up in flames on a day that the temperatures were going to plummet tonight into the low 20 degrees.

As their belongings smoldered, deputies told them that if they went elsewhere and put up a tent, those would also be burned.

A few weeks ago- County Commissioners stood up and praised the coordinated actions of the Sherrif for arresting more than 10 individuals at numerous camps for trespassing. They called these actions tough love.

What is happening right now is not tough love... This is violence. This is arson. This is bullying.

While we do not have video footage or pictures of the actions that led to this video and the stories that I have heard, I feel confident enough that the stories and details that I have heard over the last few weeks are consistent with this video to share it. I share it for accountability and awareness. I share it to advocate for victims of this behavior who are often made to feel that no one will believe them or how they are being treated by law enforcement because they are vilified and stripped of their humanity.

I would love to know if there is body camera footage of these interactions to confirm these actions or dispute the consistent stories and several locations of charred earth around our community.

I would love to understand if these ugly actions that set people back in their efforts to find stability and shelter in our community are the new accepted standard practice of our Sherrif's department.

I'm going to be honest- tonight, I am struggling.

As I sat with impacted individuals this evening and listened- my soul ached. I am angry. I am sad. I am disappointed.

We are better than this Springfield and should expect better from our leaders and law enforcement officers.

This is what being homeless in the Bible-belt looks like. 💔"

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erichkutslilpp t1_j889mpu wrote

Man, that entire area looks trashed. Similar to the west side of highway 13 just north of Norton.

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Cloud_Disconnected t1_j89esaw wrote

This seems implausible for a number of reasons. For one, it's pretty unprecedented, I don't think there's any modern examples of law enforcement clearing a homeless encampment by burning in recent history in the United States.

Then, there's the safety issues. Burning a camp like that would cause a lot of toxic fumes and potential groundwater contamination. And then there's the risk of the fire spreading, especially this time of year. It's unlikely Greene County would do this without a fire department overseeing it.

Gasoline as an accelerant? Again, huge safety issue, and there are much better ones. You could suppose they used something else and the "witness" was mistaken, but gas is easily identified by it's odor.

GCSO knows there would be a huge backlash, scandal, and lawsuits if this got out, so why do it? Why not just use more conventional methods and avoid all that? I'm not saying they always use good judgement, but this would be something you'd expect to hear about from Maricopa county.

I'm not saying it's impossible this happened, but it's highly improbable and I'm very, very skeptical. One burned campsite as shown in the video is proof that one campsite burned for unknown reasons. It would require a lot more proof to make the claim that GCSO is burning homeless encampments believable.

What I find a lot more credible is that due to the recent changes in the law, rumors are going around in the homeless community, and this pastor was taken in by them.

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Goblin4Morrison t1_j88ttek wrote

You cannot get upset for a land owner wanting uninvited homeless to vacate their land. I’m sure they’ve been warned multiple times.

I believe in equal access to everything as much as the next person, but if people are so hell bent on helping, buy some land and invite them there. Don’t get pissed at land owners for not wanting their property trashed. Give me a break. A lot of solution givers but not one I’ve seen that is willing to share their home/property.

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Ok_Professor2620 t1_j88vk49 wrote

Piss off. People experiencing houselessness do not deserve to have their belongings burned even if it is private property. That is not the job of cops.

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Goblin4Morrison t1_j88wgrf wrote

Where in the fuck did I say they deserve that? I said you cannot get mad at private property owners for not wanting uninvited guests living on their fucking property.

Again, what are you doing to fix the problem? Other than taking shit out of context on Reddit?

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probably_inside t1_j891ody wrote

I understood your comment to say that personal property rights on unused land are more important than someone's right to shelter.

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Goblin4Morrison t1_j896r5l wrote

Uhm. Yea. Because that’s the reality of the situation. Just because a part of property isn’t being used doesn’t mean that it gives the right of people not invited to take up residency.

Again, are you offering up residency to homeless in your home or on your property?

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probably_inside t1_j89a438 wrote

You really need to stop with this bad faith argument you're using.

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Goblin4Morrison t1_j89fqhu wrote

Because I don’t believe that just anyone is entitled to the property I own by working my ass off, it’s a “bad faith argument?” Or is it the “because you aren’t doing anything other than sitting behind a keyboard” that got your goat?

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probably_inside t1_j89tnow wrote

Also. I have opened my home to those who have needed it. And they were strangers before that, now they are family. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?????

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Goblin4Morrison t1_j89u2mr wrote

Nothing. Because as a property owner THAT IS MY RIGHT.

I have no space for anyone beside my family, and that’s perfectly fine. Your attempt at making me feel bad fell short, I’m afraid.

I don’t feel like anyone has a right to my property but me and mine.

Edit to add: and yeah, if I had given multiple warnings (I’m assuming these folk did, because that’s the decent thing to do), and my warning was ignored, I’d do what is necessary to protect my own property. Joe Bob doesn’t have a right to it because he’s mentally ill and can’t hold a job. That is not my problem and my property or home does not have to be apart of that solution.

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Whole-Patience-8728 t1_j8irzhs wrote

Well as most laws in most states when a person buys land or property you have x amount of time to do something with it so either do something with it or stfu

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Goblin4Morrison t1_j8j6fx9 wrote

Lol wtf? “Do something with your property you pay taxes on because if not, you should let strangers live on it and trash it.”

Socialism is a fucking joke. Get over it.

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probably_inside t1_j89v52x wrote

You are a lost cause. I hope someday you learn compassion. Good bye.

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Goblin4Morrison t1_j89vjf0 wrote

I have plenty of compassion, I just don’t think it includes inviting strangers onto my property of into my families home just because they’re homeless. And anyone who thinks people should have to do that are seriously insane.

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ghenghis_could t1_j9oi07w wrote

Police are to be held to a standard and that standard isn't terrorism

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Rooster_311 t1_j8dmvby wrote

Ok so I work Maintenance at a large Distribution Center Located on East Kearney in Springfield, the other night I was sent by security to investigate a burning smell on the south side of our property. It was off property but you could see and smell the smoke for about an hour. Someone Burned something HUGE on Northside the other night. And it smelled like Trash burning.

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Goge97 t1_j8exfr3 wrote

Crap. In the US of A, we (meaning the legal representatives of the society) CANNOT burn people out.

It's horrifying. I don't care who they are, where they are, whether you agree with them or not, human beings are not some sort of infestation.

You may not like their circumstances, but in the name of God, they deserve to be treated with dignity.

This is a repudiation of our values and beliefs as a society. If we can't recognize that and haven't experienced true hardship in our own lives, perhaps looking into our own family history provides some empathy.

Anyone's grandparents survive the Dust Bowl, the Great Depression, just to name two?

Most have family tragedies that we survive, including poverty and death. It takes time and help to recover.

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probably_inside t1_j88woo2 wrote

ACAB

I do think the Elm Fork John Brown Club down in Austin came up with a repeatable model on how to deal with this kind of behavior.

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Always_0421 t1_j89btah wrote

>I do think the Elm Fork John Brown Club down in Austin came up with a repeatable model on how to deal with this kind of behavior.

You must not know Jim Arnott....

Those guys im Austin stopped volunteers from cleaning up a homeless encampment (and they came back at a later date unannounced with traditional police escort and did so at a later date)...these aren't unarmed social workers and volunteers youd be trying to stop.

Here's how it'd go in Greene County (best case scenario)

Police show up. Guys blocking the police. They're told they're obstructing and now trespassing and if they aren't willing to leave they will be arrested and removed. Some leave. Some refuse.

Police arrest those who refuse to leave and sieze their weapons, and then clean up the camp regardless. Give the homeless some extra time to get whatever things they can carry away.

The arrested protestors now have a modest bail to post, a misdemeanor court date, a firearm seized by LE, and will be targeted for future harassment.

We can use our imagination for the worst case scenario; But idk of any scenario in the history of the US where pointing a firearm has ever ended in the favor of the perpetrator.

If you want to change this, you'll have to target the law, not the enforcers of the law.

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probably_inside t1_j89si5d wrote

I am well aware of Jim Arnot. And the unsavory extremists he associates with.

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CruiseChallenge t1_j8b8vkb wrote

Good I'm sick of the homeless in this country.

Took my kids to the park this morning Jenny Lincoln and two homeless were sprawled out under the playground.

I was like you worthless souls have the whole park. Don't make it were I have to explain yo my kids how worthless you all are and can't move.

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the_honeyman OP t1_j8e0t3a wrote

Thanks for letting us all know you're just a gigantic prick with zero capacity for empathy!

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[deleted] t1_j888si8 wrote

[deleted]

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Bulky_Conference_306 t1_j88sic4 wrote

Where do you suggest they go then, since you're the expert on this?

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[deleted] t1_j88sszc wrote

[deleted]

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Bulky_Conference_306 t1_j88sxls wrote

And they can't sleep on public land so they just have to disappear?

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[deleted] t1_j88t46g wrote

[deleted]

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Ok_Professor2620 t1_j88vonv wrote

And where exactly do you think they disappear to? Disgusting. Shame on you

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[deleted] t1_j88y59k wrote

[deleted]

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probably_inside t1_j8908ql wrote

This is the most unempathetic thing I have read in a long time

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[deleted] t1_j8915gl wrote

[deleted]

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CandyBoBandDandy t1_j894wul wrote

Because you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're blaming the homeless for having their stuff burned, instead of the people burning their stuff. Especially since it is supposedly cops and arson is illegal

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CandyBoBandDandy t1_j894ngm wrote

What do you do if you're born into homelessness? Did You ever stop to think there might have been kids in this camp? I guess it would be a three year old's responsibility to get out themselves out of homelessness?

Maybe you've grown up homeless, and when you're an adult you can't get a job, because you need an address to get a Job. And you can't get an address without a job, so you're stuck in a catch 22.

Or maybe you lucked out and managed to get a job somehow, but there are no vacant homes you can afford because the price of rent has skyrocketed.

Realistically, it can be nearly impossible to change your situation in these conditions.

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[deleted] t1_j89596r wrote

[deleted]

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CandyBoBandDandy t1_j896qpr wrote

I am not "making it something its not," these are all hypothetical scenarios to get you thinking. To explain to you that once you are homeless, it's extremely difficult to get out. We don't know who was at the camp.

But since you want to focus on what it is, here is what it is. Cops, illegally commiting arson on poor people.

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