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whyreadthis2035 t1_ja10buu wrote

Reply to comment by TminusTech in Ford’s EVs are getting faster charging and more affordable batteries thanks to new chemistry by Ssider69

Especially with Tesla sounding more and more like DeLorean.

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jasoncross00 t1_ja25eob wrote

Maybe I just don't know that much about DeLorean, but this comparison seemed strange to me? They never made even 10,000 DeLoreans, right? They're making 2 million Teslas a year now. They've been the top-selling car of any kind in Norway for a couple years now. Last year the Model Y was the top selling car of any kind in California (second place was the Model 3). They've had almost four straight years of profitable quarters, and are profiting to the tune of over $3B a quarter now.

I mean there are plenty of gripes to have about the company and especially its CEO, but you can't say they're not selling tons of cars and making tons of money.

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whyreadthis2035 t1_ja2gcoh wrote

It’s weak and only goes so far as the company is going to fall off a cliff. And that’s going to leave owners in a bad place.

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Gk5321 t1_ja3ic7a wrote

Why is it necessary to be so negative. They’re the first successful new car company in how many decades? They’re also American made (or wherever you happen to live now) - and the most American made car (they have the most parts made here. I know Elon is controversial but they did something amazing and it’s so stupid to keep shitting on them over and over again. They have their own issues but the company is only 20 years old if you can even say that. They literally changed the industry.

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whyreadthis2035 t1_ja4uss8 wrote

My issue is with Musk and with how EXTREMELY overvalued Tesla is. Once the big auto makers go all in, Tesla is fine. Musk himself spends too much time disrupting the economy. And now he’s sold out and taken his marbles to Texas. It isn’t a good thing. It’s not a successful car company. It’s a successful tech company. I’m ready for a mature ford product. Ford KNOWS how to make a pickup truck. The only thing that has been throttling their investment is that they don’t have Tesla’s inflated market cap. I could go on. We could share a beer and find common ground. I’ve had a solar roof since before it was cool. We need EVs mass produced for everyone. Ford is going too high on the F150 price right now. But, that will correct itself once the big auto makers are convinced fossil fuels don’t rule congress.

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Specialist-Document3 t1_ja5uq6u wrote

I want this to be true, but I don't think it is. Tesla's margins are really high compared to legacy Auto makers. I honestly wish Elon would disappear in a puff of smoke, but I have not seen anything that seems to indicate that the company is actually going to start losing money soon. Even if they never roll out fsd release (aka not beta). Unless he sucks money out of the car business and into the robot business? But I don't think that's currently happening at a level to kill the entire company.

I do agree however that legacies will catch up. I think Ford's ev looking like a regular truck is a stroke of genius that will actually propel the masses towards EVs rather than only targeting nerdy demographics. Rivian looks great too. So do the Audi e Tron variants and the latest Nissan leaf and ariya. The list goes on. I think the legacies will catch up on mass production of EVs, but new platforms and new assembly lines are expensive and Tesla does have 10 years of amortizing those costs. I don't think Tesla's going to disappear when they have strong price gouging capabilities and strong price undercutting capabilities.

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KickBassColonyDrop t1_jaa0gw2 wrote

The real tell will be how the Cybertruck does against the F-150 lightning. If the former dethrones the latter in every category that can qualify for what it means to make a pickup truck, this argument is going to fall apart.

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Maverick0984 t1_ja3mvu3 wrote

I think a lot of people feel it's a sham though. Yes, they pushed EV forward but they also likely won't be here in 10-15 years, gobbled up by a real car company.

They have been overcharging for years to make up for their massive money sinks in failed initiatives.

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Gk5321 t1_ja41anx wrote

I think a lot of people on Reddit push that narrative. In real life people have no clue about musk and just automatically think Tesla when they hear EV. Even when they see an add for Ford or Chevy EVs they think Tesla.

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Maverick0984 t1_ja41jb3 wrote

I really can't disagree with this more. At least the real life around me anyway.

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Gk5321 t1_ja41onn wrote

I think EVs are pretty regional. Here in Florida they’re everywhere and for the most part Teslas.

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Maverick0984 t1_ja472kt wrote

Maybe? I have never really mentioned quantity or what it is in the marketplace today. My comment is about the long term. They are not built to last. Teslas in general were a status symbol and they aren't anymore. The luster has wore off and people see them for what they are, now that other options exist.

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homogenousmoss t1_ja6d8nt wrote

I have two Tesla and my wife has no idea who Musk is. Its just a car brand to her and she works in a garage. Its like I have no idea who the CEO of any car company is except Tesla and its only because of reddit that I know who he is.

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KickBassColonyDrop t1_jaa06np wrote

How are they going to be gobbled up by a real car company. I mean, what does that even mean "real car company"?

Are you implying that Tesla isn't a real car company? Lol?

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Maverick0984 t1_jaa1abh wrote

>Are you implying that Tesla isn't a real car company?

Yes, that is precisely what I am implying. Musk himself has said they are a tech company first, car company second. Trying to get that crazy valuation.

We're seeing that fail now, hence the crashing valuation.

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KickBassColonyDrop t1_jaa51z7 wrote

Lol? What crashing evaluation? The market always pulls back during fears of a recession. Tale as old as time.

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fireisveryfun t1_ja1jpjf wrote

I wonder how the muskrats would cope with Tesla fumbling a decade long technology and presence lead.

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pablo_pick_ass_ohhh t1_ja1maa8 wrote

Elon is doing a pretty good job of telling the world exactly what a fucking buffoon he is.

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Bobby_Marks2 t1_ja23qkn wrote

It's all but guaranteed at this point. Tesla should have taken their head start and used it to learn how to make vehicles with all the same capacity for quality that established manufacturers do. Instead, they wasted time disrupting industry for disruption's sake.

Teslas aren't really price-competitive, not when the whole picture is measured. Shoddy manufacturing practices means lots of parts that need to be replaced inside warranty windows. For example, we had a Tesla come in for window tinting at work, and one of the door panels wasn't properly installed - no big deal, we pop those out and in all the time so we can do the customer a favor. Except we couldn't do this one, because when the door panel was installed properly the door wouldn't close.

We work on lots of new and luxury vehicles. Teslas are built shoddy. The Chevy Bolt starts at like $27k if you want an economy EV, the Hyundai Ioniq at $41k if you want middle-of-the-road quality, and the Cadillac Lyriq starts at $58k if you want luxury from a brand that actually understands luxury. Their truck appears like it will be beaten to market by most of the competition, and there's just so many options out there or in the pipe.

What is Tesla's niche? They remind me of where Netflix was a year ago: the first-mover of a guaranteed-to-be-standardized-in-the-future technology, riding high on nothing but the fact that their revenues are high. No forward strategy but to assume everything will continue to be awesome.

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fizzlefist t1_ja3a2av wrote

The only real advantages they have left are not needing to buy through a dealership middle-man, and their charging network. And the latter is a very real differentiator if you plan on going long-distances in your EV.

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Bobby_Marks2 t1_ja5oz9f wrote

And Tesla may very well give up the exclusivity of their charging network in order to qualify for the federal EV rebate.

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moofunk t1_ja3mswm wrote

As far as we understand from anecdotal reports and scattered news articles, build quality problems are mostly from cars built at the Fremont factory, i.e. all Model S and X, all American Model 3 and most American Model Y.

If you buy a Model 3 made in Shanghai, you may get a better car.

Model Y production is about to start up in Texas, which has a better reputation in manufacturing.

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mdielmann t1_ja2t5uo wrote

Some people would call me a muskrat. I plan on buying a non-Tesla EV. There are better options on the market for a similar price.

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weaselmaster t1_ja1nbe2 wrote

Would be pretty in character for Elon to turn out to be a high level cocaine dealer…

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