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Sentsuizan t1_iwz1c4j wrote

When did we vote on that? I was NOT consulted!

284

Sl4sh4ndD4sh t1_ix0txqy wrote

It came up at the last second, you had already left.

33

AwfulEveryone t1_ix2tk7r wrote

You only had a second to read the question and answer.

You were simply too slow to participate!

1

jorge1209 t1_ix10z3c wrote

I demand a recount and the reinstatement of Donald J. Trump as World president.

−9

Drach88 t1_iwz555h wrote

Can we vote to end daylight savings? My alarm clock knows what the new time is, but my dog doesn't.

214

InGordWeTrust t1_iwzcq6c wrote

It has to go. Daylight Savings is terrible.

54

CarelessCogitation t1_iwzf8ge wrote

Daylight saving time is amazing and should be made permanent.

Normal time (where it gets dark earlier in the evening) is what needs to go.

106

stonerdad999 t1_iwzg3hg wrote

I’m with you. Let’s end time.

56

anti-torque t1_iwzials wrote

Time-stopping is fine.

But those guys who want to stop the world and melt with me are sus.

20

Bozhark t1_ix0u6hy wrote

Technically, it hasn’t started

1

HappyEngineer t1_ix0pl2a wrote

This 100%. Glad CA voted for this. Morning light is awful. I block it with blackout blinds, but it still makes its way in. I need it far more in the evening after I am off work. I don't want to go for a nice stroll after work if it's pitch dark.

15

koosley t1_ix1iq66 wrote

Living in Minneapolis, day light savings is my favorite time. Screw normal time. It's dark when I get up with or without it. I'd rather the sun set at 5pm instead of 4pm to at least watch the sunset when I get off work....

7

kmsc84 t1_iwzym77 wrote

Split the difference.

Move it by 30 minutes, then leave it.

1

Outlulz t1_iwzkwjk wrote

Better it get dark in the evening than be dark late in the morning. Permanent DST is antagonistic to human circadian rhythms. We need sunlight to wake up and keep our internal clocks in sync with solar cycles.

−2

[deleted] t1_iwzot57 wrote

[removed]

−2

statsgrad t1_ix0dtqx wrote

Yea I never got why we can't just all decide that work is 9-5 from spring to fall, then 10-6 from fall to spring. Why was it ever determined to be easier to have everybody physically change the clocks, and account for it in every database and computer program, rather than just changing our schedule around the time?

Especially in the age where you can look up a company's hours online.

15

its_not_you_its_ye t1_ix001r1 wrote

That’s just idiotic. It’s far more important when sunrise and sunset take place than when noon takes place.

Edit: I imagine you must live towards the south, don’t you?

−1

Felaguin t1_ix02k99 wrote

Guess what, sunrise and sunset are symmetrical around noon on standard time. Funny how physics and geometry work. Given our modern day living habits, it’s generally healthier to wake up with the sun since you’re going to use artificial lights in the evening anyway. You always have the option to get up and work earlier if you somehow prefer to use lights in the morning.

EDIT: I currently live near 40 deg North latitude. When I lived below 30 deg latitude, work and school hours generally started at 7:30 or 8:00 AM and ended accordingly. Changing the clock because you’re too ignorant to understand seasonal and solar cycles is stupid.

3

JUSTlNCASE t1_ix0qe0k wrote

Guess what, society is structured around having more free time at the end of the day than at the start. I'd rather have more sunlight hours then so you dont have to drive home in the dark and can't do shit outside.

12

Goodnitenite78 t1_ix01xo7 wrote

Daylight savings time is actually horrible for you.

−6

baxbooch t1_ix0c443 wrote

Maybe in the summer. But in the winter if it got dark at 5:30 instead of 4:30 my circadian rhythms wouldn’t suffer. But my mental health sure does with the current system

13

Supertrinko t1_ix140d3 wrote

Try living closer to the poles.

2

InGordWeTrust t1_ix150u4 wrote

Needs of the many

0

Supertrinko t1_ix157rr wrote

Tyranny of the majority you mean?

But also no, because while you get rid of DST, doesn't mean everyone has to.

1

Cakeordeathimeancake t1_iwzcx4y wrote

The struggle with our dog is real. Where’s my breakfast humans, hey , hey, I’m hungry it’s an hour late where.. is.. my… breakfast!?!

52

TickleyTaint t1_iwzrdqz wrote

Meals, walks, all of it. Mine are definitely fond of their schedule

7

Apocrisiary t1_iwzo5ov wrote

Doesn't even have a purpose here. It's dark when you wake up, and it's dark when you get off work.

All that hour does is fucking up your sleep-scheduelle.

26

PelosisBraStrap t1_iwzxxku wrote

saving, not savings

3

Drach88 t1_iwzycys wrote

I'll use the correct term when the practice of observing it ends.

11

PelosisBraStrap t1_ix0dj10 wrote

OK I get it. I hate the switch back and forth too. Personally, I'd like it to be permanent DST.

Anyhow, I was replying to your comment because so many other commenters below were saying 'savings'.

I'm trying to educate, not hate.

2

Drach88 t1_ix0dnfc wrote

>I'm trying to educate, not hate.

No hate assumed. I'm all in favor of TIL moments.

2

PelosisBraStrap t1_ix0g695 wrote

And while we're at it, is it really saving daylight? I guess for all intensive purposes, it could be argued that the daylight helps you to see better for critical jobs.

So 'saving' the daylight to the ladder portion of the day would allow daylight at times when you need to climb on the roof and clean out gutters, or something.

1

TittyJacker3000 t1_ix24uyv wrote

I prefer my ladder portion to be right around lunch time. Nicer views.

1

thenerdal t1_ix10nqt wrote

Maybe that's why they haven't ended it. The DST Gods are pissed at us

1

TheRealMrChips t1_iwzv09a wrote

I don't care if we keep DLS or drop it for Standard time... Just pick one and stick with it already!

2

Voluptuous-Granny t1_iwztnvq wrote

Nah I love daylight savings.

1

Drach88 t1_iwzyyn2 wrote

The practice of changing the clocks forward has a significantly significant impact on increasing heart attacks and deer collisions.

4

Supertrinko t1_ix14cfi wrote

The practice of ensuring daylight occurs in the day reduces attacks on people in the early and late hours.

Without DST, it'd be dark outside when most people at mu lattitude finish work. They'd be walking home in the dark. What wonderful targets.

3

Voluptuous-Granny t1_iwzzhfc wrote

Not my problem, I don't drive. I like it when it's brighter outside for longer in the evenings in spring and summer.

I also like when we change the clocks back in the winter. I like that 1 extra hour of sleep that night.

−12

Drach88 t1_iwzzw4m wrote

>I like it when it's brighter outside for longer in the evenings in spring and summer.

It's brighter for longer in the summer regardless of what your clock says.

I'm also a little irked by how brazenly you proclaim "I don't care if it actually kills people".

11

Voluptuous-Granny t1_ix013p7 wrote

Yeah it's brighter for longer and it's brighter for even longer with the time change. I like that.

If I had to care about every single thing that kills people, I'd have to care that stairs kill people. Electricity kills people. Fans kill people. Doors kill people. Tide pods kill people. Hotdogs kills people. Hot water kills people. Water kills people. Dumbells kill people. Stoves kill people. Showers kill people. Bathtubs kill people. Sound kills people. The sun kills people. Candy kills people. Plants kill people. Trees kill people. Fireplaces kill people. And so MANY MANY more things.

1

abdelg21 t1_ix1cgat wrote

You know I'd agree with you but also.

But then again i can't after Mexico ended daylight savings, to "go back to god's schedule" it was so stupid that I'd rather just leave the schedule as is.

1

Pooteo t1_iwzpqxo wrote

They did, it ends next year.

−5

Drach88 t1_iwzqehf wrote

I know it passed in the Senate, but I don't believe it's been passed by the House.

6

moleware t1_iwyu277 wrote

So they're aware that this will have consequences, they know what those consequences will be technically, but they're going to do it as an experiment to see what happens societally?

I can understand the technological arguments against the leap second. None of them really apply to everyday life though, so I really doubt that this decision will have any practical effect, especially if it takes nearly a hundred years to drift by even a minute.

119

i_have_chosen_a_name t1_iwz6wr8 wrote

Somebody a hundred years from now is gonna miss a sunset by one minute.

91

Even-Fix8584 t1_iwzaq72 wrote

At the same time…. We can’t get rid of day light fucking savings!?!?!

50

doctorlongghost t1_iwzj6xy wrote

Why don’t we just get rid of sunsets? Seems like the more effective remedy…

17

HaloGuy381 t1_iwzs699 wrote

Or sunrises. Let’s just tidally lock the Earth! Infinite solar power!

8

jag149 t1_ix1ffn9 wrote

I have blackout curtains and a sleep mask, and light still keeps me awake. Let's keep the sun on the other side, thank you. And the permanent night life will make my problem drinking seem a lot more normal.

6

russianmofia t1_ix0ss6n wrote

We want to keep DST(the hour ahead) and drop standard time that we’re in right now(the fall back).

8

ronnieler1 t1_ix1u6sd wrote

So standard time is the one that gets dark earlier? If so, it needs to go

3

russianmofia t1_ix2346z wrote

Yes, we are in standard time currently. DST begins again March, when nights will be longer again and our seasonal depression will be revealed that it is not just seasonal.

2

ronnieler1 t1_ix26os2 wrote

I am still confused. Nights are longer now. Current time sucks depression is now

2

FreddoMac5 t1_ix3052z wrote

Nights are longer now due to the earth's axial tilt which DST tries to mitigate by falling back an hour to actually give you MORE sunlight. DST doesn't have a god damn thing to do with the days being shorter during winter and everyone blaming DST for it are morons.

3

ronnieler1 t1_ix32pse wrote

DST is crap. It does not give me .ore sunlight. It makes sunrise at 6 am when i am still sleeping and sun set at 5.

Why the fuck do we need sun rise at 6 am?

0

FreddoMac5 t1_ix4u5f4 wrote

The sun rises later in winter even with the fall back.

2

russianmofia t1_ix2j1sz wrote

I mean evenings are longer I guess? I’m saying it emotionally lol so in the summers the nights are longer like it’s daylight later. Damn I am horrible at explaining my thoughts sorry

1

DAWTSF t1_iwzbn3o wrote

I love a good sale though. Why would we get rid of it?

7

blaqkaudioxd t1_ix7wwap wrote

I believe a bill has been passed a while back that gets rid of it actually. I believe its called the sunshine protection act or something similar

1

Even-Fix8584 t1_ix7z02q wrote

Still gotta pass the house…. And even though a Republican Senator introduced it, the Republican controlled house has to pass it.

Didn’t sound like democrat controlled house was going to get it passed, not sure the new house wants it either.

2

blaqkaudioxd t1_ix7zuu7 wrote

Ah. I haven't heard anything since it passed the Senate. Thanks for the update.

1

elitedejaguar t1_ix0yezq wrote

México did because we know is just a scam and a weapon fo controll and it makes money by stealing workers time.

0

vadapaav t1_ix794ul wrote

Why did Mexico have it in first place? Countries on or near tropics get nearly same day light across the year. They have no reason to do this drama

1

[deleted] t1_ix0fqsg wrote

Thank you for being a considerate human being.

1

jorge1209 t1_ix11u1v wrote

I believe Google already ignores them and just amortizes the leap times over a longer period of time in their data centers.

https://developers.google.com/time/smear

Ultimately that should probably be the solution. Core atomic time sources can just lie in a coordinated fashion to amortize an adjustment as needed.

Astronomers (being the smaller community) can then program these adjustments into their time tables.

22

EvidenceBasedOnly t1_ix15nv1 wrote

Just use TAI for storage and low level timekeeping and adjust to UTC and then local time at the input/output stage, just like we do already with time zones.

4

jorge1209 t1_ix1b29e wrote

In most use cases it is very helpful for there to be exactly 24 * 60 * 60 "seconds" in a day, but it's not all that important that a second be an SI second.

If you insist that a second is a physical second from an atomic time source you will eventually accumulate some noticable difference between the official time and the astronomical time.

The general public can probably accept a much greater deviation in that than the one second that has been the practice for the last few decades, but if the astronomical community thinks it is worth keeping world time in sync with astronomical time then they should bear the brunt of the adjustment.

A single second amortized over a full day is not detectable by commodity time sources. So if you want to make the adjustment do it that way. Lie about how long the seconds are, just make your lie so small that it falls below the natural variation in quartz time sources.

10

EvidenceBasedOnly t1_ix15hck wrote

It will allow programming time libraries to simplify a bunch (eventually) tho which is based as hell. Fucking NominalTimeDiff vs AbsoluteTimeDiff is such noise.

6

koosley t1_ix1ic7o wrote

I'm a developer and work in corporate America. No matter what problem is thrown at me, time is consistently the most difficult subject. Listening to 3 project managers trying to figure out a go live time between the UK, Singapore and 3 US timezones is comical. It was around November so the differing day light savings between the UK and US came into play as well.

My life is made difficult since I deal with really old systems designed by Cisco. Server time is whatever windows is set to, so you have to manually add and subtract offsets when dealing with Arizona or other places that don't observe the servers daylight savings schedule.

6

madhi19 t1_ix1n7fj wrote

Figure we revisit the question if some form of relatively modern civilization is still up and running by the time we have a noticeable drift. Big fucking IF by the way.

4

moleware t1_ix1rodj wrote

The way things are going, you're absolutely right.

2

ButterscotchLow8950 t1_iwyz9ru wrote

Bruh, how are we going to travel through time, if we can’t even agree on what time is and how to measure it. 🤣

C’mon Marty, let’s GTF outta here ✌️

85

hp0 t1_iwz2ar9 wrote

Yep it's really not fair.

I set my watch back 24hr. And the fuckers still won't sell me yesterdays lottery ticket.

15

ButterscotchLow8950 t1_iwz2rdv wrote

That’s why you gotta go with Grey’s Sports Almanac …… they don’t have to sell you the ticket. You’ve just got the outcomes to all the major sporting events.

7

i_have_chosen_a_name t1_iwz6zuj wrote

>Bruh, how are we going to travel through time

We are all going to keep travelling through time at one second per second.

2

anti-torque t1_iwzjbhv wrote

Not when I get my beam-splitter out and start going into superposition.

It's all relative.

2

1r0ut3 OP t1_iwzahg9 wrote

>The CGPM — which also oversees the international system of units (SI) —
has proposed that no leap second should be added for at least a century,
allowing UT1 and UTC to slide out of sync by about 1 minute. But it
plans to consult with other international organizations and decide by
2026 on what upper limit, if any, to put on how much they be allowed to
diverge.

The CGPM committee should be more proactive and come to an agreement to detonate the Moon that would cease affecting the Earth's rotation, thus solving the problem. It would definitely be easier than fixing all the software impacted by this change. Trust me, I'm a programmer

39

jorge1209 t1_ix135hz wrote

Moon isn't actually the cause. It's actually tectonics in the Earth's core. Earthquakes routinely change the Earth's rotation by measurable amounts.

Orbital mechanics and tidal lock are degrees of magnitude less noticable.

So the real solution is to blow up the earth.

7

NecroJoe t1_ix1ga0w wrote

>So the real solution is to blow up the earth.

I see no problem with this plan. Where do I sign?

5

jorge1209 t1_ix3wt2y wrote

No need to sign-up, you are already enrolled. Just leave the lights on and continue to burn that oil!

2

1r0ut3 OP t1_ix1hf79 wrote

Wait, are saying that NASA lied to us? In that case I'm fine with any option as long as we keep blowing stuff up.

>From VLBI, scientists have learned that Earth is not the most reliable
timekeeper. The planet's rotation is slowing down overall because of
tidal forces between Earth and the moon. Roughly every 100 years, the
day gets about 1.4 milliseconds, or 1.4 thousandths of a second, longer.
Granted, that's about 100 or 200 times faster than the blink of an eye.
But if you add up that small discrepancy every day for years and years,
it can make a very big difference indeed.

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/extra-second.html

2

jorge1209 t1_ix1oag3 wrote

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/negative-leap-second.html

Total forces set the general trend and in a thousand years or so we would have to deal with the fact that using 1970 definitions of 1 second = do many vibrations of a cesium atom and 1day = 86400 seconds, we would need to add a leap second almost every day.

But over the shorter time frame there is substantially more variability. So much so that there was actually discussion of a negative leap second.

At that point the big tech companies really put their feet down and said "enough with this bullshit" because removing a second is in some ways an even more complex engineering task than adding one.

2

ladynox25 t1_ix1bojv wrote

….you do know about the Moon’s effect on the tides, right?

1

aneurizman t1_ix1f2q1 wrote

Oh no! You seem to have found a flaw in the otherwise flawless plan of detonating the moon. There go my weekend plans. (puts away spacesuit and dinamite)

5

ladynox25 t1_ix1q0ar wrote

Not to mention the effects of a million various sized meteorites suddenly crashing to Earth….

1

NecroJoe t1_ix1frtt wrote

>The CGPM committee should be more proactive and come to an agreement to detonate the Moon that would cease affecting the Earth's rotation, thus solving the problem.

Look out moon,

America's gonna getcha.

You're gonna go kaboom,

T'was nice to have met'chya,

'Cuz you don't mess around...with God's America!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJ3LIA5LmA

1

QuantumVitae t1_iwyz7il wrote

Reddit professors debating the concept not realizing that now the glorious crab people will have more time to walk among us. It’s a win/win

Gratuitous /s

13

FIicker7 t1_iwyutic wrote

Edit: I assumed this resolution would desync countries creating a mix of countries in and out of sync.

You know what they say when you assume...

But the article does mention that Russia's constellation is not able to comply which will cause problems (Not that I care).

Original Post:

Won't this mess up GPS over time?

Don't most countries base thier time on GPS signals?

So after a few years GPS and their terrestrial clocks will be out of synch, messing up bank transfers...

Smart. /s

Edit: Some lite reading. https://qz.com/1106064/the-entire-global-financial-system-depends-on-gps-and-its-shockingly-vulnerable-to-attack/

I guess they will change their minds, when things start to break...

12

jthill t1_iwza3pi wrote

Jesus, buddy, do you ever bother checking?

GPS time started at UTC in 1980 and has never applied leap seconds since. It's straight atomic clock. This will put UTC in lockstep with GPS.

19

FIicker7 t1_iwzd5p5 wrote

Nope I didn't. Thanks for calling me out.

I assumed this resolution would desync countries.

But the article does mention that Russia's constellation is not able to comply which will cause problems (Not that I care).

5

[deleted] t1_iwz4iso wrote

[deleted]

6

FIicker7 t1_iwz4w3p wrote

That's a great question. I'm glad you asked.

If my memory serves me correctly (I can look into finding a source if you want),

modern digital banking relays on an encryption that uses the GPS system to encrypt and verify transactions.

Edit: Oh and the Clocks on your phone are GPS time and their isn't an easy way to change this because your phone also uses GPS for navigation. So in a 10 or 15 years the clocks on your phone will be noticeably off.

5

drysart t1_iwz9oib wrote

> Oh and the Clocks on your phone are GPS time and their isn't an easy way to change this

Sure there is. Go to settings and turn off automatic time setting. Then you can set the clock on your phone to any date and time you want.

Just because your phone uses GPS for navigation doesn't imply that it uses GPS for any other purposes, including setting the clock. It can, and you probably want it to, but literally nothing says it has to.

And even if you do continue to use GPS to sync your clock, your clock will not be off in 10-15 years because GPS time doesn't use leap seconds, so there's already an offset that gets applied to your clock when syncing time from the GPS signal -- currently this is 18 seconds, so your phone's clock is 18 seconds off from what GPS says it should be. And all this change means is that the offset won't need to continue to be manually changed in the future as leap seconds get abandoned entirely.

4

outlawsix t1_iwz9fjo wrote

We keep saying "one minute in 100 years" but uh.... that's more than half a second every year and that's not good where precision matters

2

ric2b t1_ix3397q wrote

>modern digital banking relays on an encryption that uses the GPS system to encrypt and verify transactions.

This sounds ridiculous, do you have a source for that?

>So in a 10 or 15 years the clocks on your phone will be noticeably off.

By like... 15s

1

1r0ut3 OP t1_iwzjxm9 wrote

GPS is not affected, but some other navigation systems like GLONASS might be. Here's what article says:

>The Russian system
incorporates leap seconds, while the Global Position System (GPS) and
others already effectively ignore them. The decision means that Russia
might need to install new satellites and ground stations, says Felicitas
Arias, former director of the Time Department at the International
Bureau of Weights and Measures (BIPM) in Sèvres, France.

1

i_have_chosen_a_name t1_iwyz6bf wrote

> Won't this mess up GPS over time?

No cause GPS clocks (the atom clocks inside the satellites) are already separated from UTC, they have never adjusted for leap seconds. Neither does galileo, only glonass adjusts for leap seconds.

>Don't most countries base their time on GPS signals?

GPS is primarily a global position system, not primarily time system even though to work it require sending time to the receivers. Countries have their own agencies in charge of time and those run their own atomic clocks, modern countries don't just copy over the time of the gps satellites. Sure there are tons of devices that use gps signals to sync their clocks with but such signals can also just be ground signals.

>So after a few years GPS and their terrestrial clocks will be out of synch, messing up bank transfers...

WTF does GPS have to do with bank transfers? Do you even know what GPS is?

>I guess they will change their minds, when things start to break...

Why would anything break? Universal coordinated time and astronomical time will drift out of sync by one minute over a 100 years. But if all computer systems keep in sync with astronomical time and never care about leap seconds anymore why would they break? Who care if a weather website that calculates the sunset gets it wrong by one minute a 100 years from now?

−3

dopazz t1_iwz13ni wrote

>GPS is a global position system, not a time system.

Oversimplified: GPS calculates position using precise timestamps transmitted from the satellites. It's completely based around time. The satellites have atomic clocks in them to maintain accuracy.

​

>Do you even know what GPS is?

Do you?

16

i_have_chosen_a_name t1_iwz4gmi wrote

yeah but it's not the only way for a device to get a signal to help sync it's clock.

1

dopazz t1_iwz6crk wrote

You mean an alternative signal like WWVB in Colorado USA / MSF in Cumbria UK? There are signal deadzones all over; if you can see the sky you can receive the GPS signal.

Regardless, your initial post seemed to lack understanding of how GPS works. Time is the crux.

4

ric2b t1_ix33n6a wrote

>Oversimplified: GPS calculates position using precise timestamps transmitted from the satellites. It's completely based around time.

Yes, but it has 0 need for leap second adjustments, it's the relative timestamps between the satellites that matters, not their absolute values. (T1 + 18) - (T2 + 18) is still T1 - T2.

Way to miss the point just to act superior.

0

dopazz t1_ix3dm2n wrote

>Do you even know what GPS is?

Way to misinterpret which person was acting superior.

1

FIicker7 t1_iwyz9s1 wrote

https://qz.com/1106064/the-entire-global-financial-system-depends-on-gps-and-its-shockingly-vulnerable-to-attack/

6

i_have_chosen_a_name t1_iwyzv7a wrote

How does a ATM in a underground mall receive a GPS signal?

2

FIicker7 t1_iwyzwto wrote

They have antennas.

Edit: Most ATMs work off cell towers. Cell Towers depend on GPS.

6

fatdonuthole t1_iwz13ai wrote

Lots of industries decode time from GPS signals to remain in sync with each other. https://www.gps.gov/applications/timing/

6

ric2b t1_ix33u1g wrote

And none of those industries need GPS to have leap second adjustments. Because it never had them.

2

jorge1209 t1_ix5le7o wrote

There is a distinction between needing a way to synchronize, and needing accurate timekeeping.

GPS needs accuracy. The satellites are moving many kilometers per second and so to know where they are (and this where you are) you need to know the exact time a signal was sent, and then that pulse is synchronized across the globe.

It is a rather unique application. Lots of other applications need a global source to synchronize but are less sensitive to errors in that source.

For example you need to sync power across a large network to avoid blowing out transformers, but you have a rather wide acceptable variation in the frequency with which you can synchronize that network. For instance the Texas network ran at 59.4Hz during the 2021 blackouts without failing.

1

bkoly t1_iwz45y1 wrote

Jesus how does this have so many upvotes

4

ric2b t1_ix33wn9 wrote

Because it's correct, GPS doesn't need leap seconds adjustments, that's why it doesn't have them.

1

bkoly t1_ix3pp4m wrote

The bit about bank transfers…

1

ric2b t1_ix3wrjy wrote

What about it?

1

bkoly t1_ix3xnth wrote

It was dead wrong.

1

ric2b t1_ix54h6t wrote

How do bank transfers depend on GPS getting leap second adjustments? (which it doesn't get)

1

bkoly t1_ix6vx80 wrote

That’s not what the comment I was referring to said. They didn’t understand how gps had anything to do with bank transfers at all

1

golyadkin t1_iwz7vuo wrote

It actually is also a time system. The precision time signals from GPS are used in situations where it's important to have standardized time across geographically dispersed equipment. It's used in telecommunications, power distribution, financial networks, seismic monitoring and a lot of industrial processes ad the default.

2

ric2b t1_ix33yhz wrote

>used in situations where it's important to have standardized time across geographically dispersed equipment.

NTP also works fine.

1

GarbanzoBenne t1_iwzmlcx wrote

If the leap second is an unpredictable and manual adjustment, why would GLONASS need to be replaced if we stop doing it? Can't we just stop entering these manual adjustments?

11

ric2b t1_ix348cl wrote

I guess the issue is GLONASS would need to remove the past adjustments, or else it will be using a 3rd timing system that has some adjustments but not all, and would match nothing else.

3

jorge1209 t1_ix3p1u7 wrote

It sounds like glonass is assuming that atomic and solar time align to within 1 second?!

I don't get it either. A one second deviation in satnav is miles, right? I don't understand how the system could function if it assumed that UTC was TAI.

This probably explains it once I can drink my coffee:

https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/leapseconds-expose-bugs-even-when-they-dont-happen/

[Edit] apparently yes GLONASS just uses Moscow wall time. I don't understand how that works at all.

3

ObsessionAddict t1_ix8bxah wrote

I also don't understand this, the only reasoning that would somewhat make sense to me (doesn't mean I think it's a good reason), is something like: "He world, you wanted leap-seconds, we've spend time and money on being able to handle them, if we're going to abolish them, that's money we've spend for nothing and it's your fault!".

Not saying that's it, but if it's not, I don't understand the problem

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Icy-Bauhaus t1_iwz2nv6 wrote

The reason to change is because of glitches of digital systems, while they should have used atomic time instead of UTC in the first place. It's their design peoblem. Instead, they are companies big enough to change UTC standard so that they can save some money to fix their own problem.

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dv_ t1_ix0dk3v wrote

Atomic time is great for timestamps that have zero relation to localtime. But if you want to be able to convert to localtime, UTC is easier, since it only involves an offset. Atomic time to localtime also requires fitting in the leap seconds. This is also the reason why scheduling stuff based on atomic time is impractical - you won't know when leap seconds will be inserted in the future.

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jorge1209 t1_ix1qaew wrote

Very few (almost zero) digital systems need atomic time.

They need a coordinated time, but it need not be atomic.

Their ideal time is one with exactly 86400 seconds in a day, and each second being equal within the natural variation when measured by the quartz crystal in the system clock

That variation is relatively enormous and provides a wide range for how long a day could actually be according to a more accurate atomic clock.

The challenge is how to bootstrap a coordinated time across the worldwide network of computers without it being atomic time.

But almost no computer programs care if a second is long or short by a few parts per million. If they did they would already be exhibiting bugs on commodity hardware.

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XiMs t1_iwz1525 wrote

How does this effect stuff eli5

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trail_mix24 t1_ix1gy96 wrote

Basically it's an "oh no, anyways" thing. Makes programming easier since we won't be having them divert from the atomic clock. The largest effect is that in a century we might deviate a whole minute. Eventually, in a few thousand years it'll be a problem when it's off by an hour or so, but that's a future issue.

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monkee67 t1_iwz6t38 wrote

" and just like that, "Snap," a slow tear in the fabric of space/time began. It wasn't much at first, just a little pinhole, but soon it was significant. Later the gap was just large enough, and someone was just smart enough to exploit the gap for financial gain. When the gap became sufficiently great the "World Wide StutterWobble" made it feel like the Acid was just about to come on.

Then all shit hit the fan....

edit; anybody want to help me write this movie treatment?

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lpsmith t1_iwyzk9c wrote

Meh, software people don't actually do UTC, but they call what they do UTC, so now we have to change UTC even though there are existing standards (e.g. TAI, GPS) that don't have leap seconds.

Great 🙄

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FilmActor t1_iwzwzlf wrote

Well I didn’t vote for you!

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Drone30389 t1_ix2ivid wrote

I think they should just move all leaps to December 31st/32nd every 4th year.

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smartintechy t1_ix2xc04 wrote

"We could even decouple our sense of time from the Sun entirely, to create a single world time zone in which different countries see the Sun overhead at different times of day or night"

Interesting thought but would be impossible to implement in a world where almost everything is coupled to time, which in its turn is coupled to the sun. I can't even imagine being in a zone where 12pm is at night 😅

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yoopidder t1_iwzydcg wrote

It’s about time!

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arch1ter t1_ix0di7t wrote

There’s no time to count everything again.

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ScootysDad t1_ix0lw4j wrote

It's about time. We've held on to this notion for the sake of analog-digital convergence. I certainly hope the UTI just let it passes and we just have to reverse it out at the end.

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the_bieb t1_ix1243e wrote

I always wonder how things like this mess with mission critical tech whose software dependencies (such as time libraries) cannot be updated to account for the change because either no one knows how to maintain them or changing anything involves an intense and long validation and review process.

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1RjLeon t1_ix20o4b wrote

Watching 👀 was technoking technoking lp0

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Blake__P t1_ix2l8hj wrote

Is this why my microwave and oven clocks are never fully in sync and keep getting further off from one another until it drives me so crazy I sync them up again??

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smartintechy t1_ix2w3by wrote

If GPS (on which most systems base their time) already ignores the leap second, this seems like a logical step. Imagine having to sync 2 systems where one takes the leap second into consideration and the other ignores it. Seems like a very unnecessary hurdle.

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44andbeyond t1_ix367v9 wrote

I mean how was this time pausing thing allowed to be a thing that exists in the first place?

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teh_maxh t1_ix9gw2h wrote

This is a mistake. We already have systems that don't include leap seconds. UTC should retain them.

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whyreadthis2035 t1_iwz5l3v wrote

Makes sense. It’s literally a waste of time. We will be living in post technology small tribes, long before the adjustment matters.

0