Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

jaybazzizzle t1_j2wx1n7 wrote

Looks like the city of Troy thinks the wooden horse sitting outside the gates is a bit suspicious

235

HanaBothWays t1_j2wy26r wrote

I am actually very uneasy about all these pushes to ban specific Chinese companies from doing business in the U.S. (ZTE, Huwaei, and now TikTok). Our supply chains, trade, and overall economy are so deeply enmeshed and interdependent by now. You can’t really put that toothpaste back in the tube.

On the one hand, if one country bans some of the other’s businesses, that’s just a drop in the bucket really. It also creates incentives for workarounds, smuggling, counterfeits, etc. which are already problems in the supply chain.

On the other hand, if one country decides to really screw and/or cut off the other…that would be devastating for both. And historically trade wars are often followed by wars of the more conventional kind. In a war between us and China, nobody would really win and the whole world would lose.

While China does do a lot of espionage and influence stuff we should be concerned about (stealing intellectual property, state-sponsored hacking, doing business with more openly hostile nation-states with Russia and North Korea), it would be really monumentally stupid to treat them like they’re, I don’t know, actually Russia or Iran or something. We already foreclosed on that option a long time ago. Again, we’re too enmeshed and we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.

−15

Photos99999 t1_j2wyiqb wrote

Sometimes I get the feeling that the Chinese are not trust worthy.

28

Craterdome t1_j2x7xvc wrote

How do you feel about China disallowing companies like Google from operating freely within its country? They wouldn't allow our media companies to dominate their landscape and we shouldn't allow the reverse.

16

mrstubali t1_j2x8xhf wrote

Virtual Flanders: Tikity Tokity neighborino!

Homer: Stupid insubstantial Flanders....

27

HanaBothWays t1_j2xam4p wrote

ByteDance, the company that owns TikTok, fired the employees who inappropriately accessed user data including the data of journalists. Seems like those employees were doing on their own in violation of company rules and ByteDance was not okay with it!

Lawmakers’ stated concerns about TikTok are not related to that issue specifically, and are mostly speculation about what the Chinese government might do with that data if they compel ByteDance to hand it over.

Congress also did not need to pass a law banning TikTok from being installed on Federal government devices (AKA Government Furnished Equipment or GFE). The White House or certain offices within Executive Branch agencies can prohibit certain software from being installed on GFE, without a bill being passed. If you know that, you know passing a bill to make that happen is a bunch of jingoistic chest-thumping nonsense.

−7

jaybazzizzle t1_j2xaxd0 wrote

I remember the story going differently. The Trojans brought the horse inside the city because it was considered to be a trophy of their victory against the Greeks and that the horse was the emblem of Troy.

9

StrangerThanGene t1_j2xd0da wrote

>The internal ByteDance report, as first reported by the New York Times, found that the employees accessed IP addresses and other data of two U.S.-based reporters via their TikTok accounts — one for BuzzFeed News and one at the Financial Times — along with several individuals connected to the reporters.

This should be even more concerning. ByteDance is a company that allows employees user-access to database entries.

This is... wildly unsecure. Screw the employees, how in the hell did they even have access to client IP information? It's literally not something any employee would ever have cause to access. This is why we write functions to handle traffic.

The fact that this happened at all should be setting off every alarm bell and red flag you have about data security.

6

HanaBothWays t1_j2xfw0a wrote

> You don’t mind your personal information being compromised I guess.

Bro your entire life history and sensitive financial information is held by Experian, which is one of the credit reporting bureaus, which you cannot opt out of. Chinese state-sponsored hackers got all their stuff in 2015. Your medical records and your financial records have probably also been compromised multiple times (sometimes those hacks make the news, sometimes they don’t, freeze your credit).

Facebook can track your stuff even if you don’t have an account with them because they have scripts on all the most popular Web sites. You are actually safer from them if you have an account with them and don’t use if for anything except to max out your privacy settings - it’s the only way to opt out.

The ISP you are using to connect to this website, and most of the services you use online, collect and collate information on you, and sell it to data brokers (which the Chinese government can purchase from by the way, like anyone else).

That horse has left the barn for all of us.

9

The_frozen_one t1_j2xnqt4 wrote

Then why not generalize this? Why is it ok for any number of companies to collect data on US citizens, well beyond what is necessary to operate, with little to no oversight or accountability? The solution isn’t adhoc. Make all tech companies accountable. Require any company that meets a size threshold to have a regular external audit of their practices, with big enough repercussions for violations that companies can’t just pay a small fine and change nothing.

TikTok is low hanging fruit, but what’s the point if data brokers can legally resell mountains of information about you? The truth is TikTok isn’t breaking the law in most instances, we just don’t have any law that prevents what they are doing. National security arguments can’t be where this is fought, because we’ve seen over and over that countries will claim everything they don’t like is a national security issue.

4

bigguccisofa_ t1_j2xpvh6 wrote

No I think he knows that he’s just saying ur protections from them are futile bc of what he’s stated

you’d get that if you weren’t just racist against the Chinese but masquerading it as a privacy concern. As a private American citizen what can the CCP even do to you?

1

Zanzaclese t1_j2xqgc9 wrote

But how else will I ignore all my problems instead of fixing them?!

1

RogueNarc t1_j2xt0i0 wrote

>it would be really monumentally stupid to treat them like they’re, I don’t know, actually Russia or Iran or something. We already foreclosed on that option a long time ago. Again, we’re too enmeshed and we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.

China is worse than Iran or Russia. They have greater economic strength, stronger international relations, a seemingly competent military and strong internal cohesion. They want to be top dog and that position inherently cannot be shared.

1

DietZer0 t1_j2xu3k7 wrote

Facebook’s future should be equally cloudy.

64

StugDrazil t1_j2y3tbl wrote

It’s a Chinese Spy app FFS. Why are people ignoring this? That app wants full access to your phone, it wants everything. Even worse, tik tok has publicly said that they have access to all your data, in China! Are you people dumb or something? You bitch and moan about privacy but here you are giving everything you do, say, text, snapshot and post to the Chinese military in exchange for likes and subscribes. Jeez listen and learn, but you won’t because your stupid.

38

HanaBothWays t1_j2yeits wrote

Yeah okay sure

Last time we had your kind of attitude about another county we wasted 20 years, trillions of dollars, and a lot of American lives on a military misadventure that destabilized a whole region and they didn’t even have a comparable military force or nukes but I’m the one drinking Kool-Aid. Right.

4

[deleted] t1_j2yh3ni wrote

I never understood why people downloaded that app. I never trusted it from the get go, it was so obviously weaponized from the start. From the content it shows to certain countries, to the content it shows certain age groups, to the dangerous ‘stunts’ or ‘challenges’ it has spawned, and let us not forget all the spyware.

35

[deleted] t1_j2yheik wrote

Another Trojan horse. Why do people not realize it’s entire purpose is to catalog people and use biometrics, not to mention all the spying they do. People are ridiculous. Whether it’s Facebook or Tik Tok, these are dangerous apps.

28

njpunkmb t1_j2yiltp wrote

Why is Tik Tok the only app that does what it does? Can nobody in the US or any other part of the world make a similar app that’s better?

People have just become lazy consumers and companies look more to how they will advertise on these platforms than actually create a competitor.

When the first company manufactured a car, other companies didn’t sit back and say “I guess I can’t make cars now”.

2

Pichu_sonic_fan2545 t1_j2yj1xa wrote

They keep saying they are going to ban the app so just ban it already. I don't know what to take seriously anymore relating this subject.

To the US gov: JUST MAKE UP YOUR MIND ALREADY!

−1

ThePoltageist t1_j2yjagl wrote

you know what great evil tik tok committed that suddenly has them on the radar? Handed republicans the biggest midterm L in history because the zoomers used it to get out the vote. Thats the real reason, the government does not give two shits about us and its already been banned from government devices.

16

xynix_ie t1_j2yndq4 wrote

The only companies interested in doing business in China are greedy companies that don't mind when China allows it's technology to be ripped off and copied. Many of these companies STILL think that somehow China's 80 billion people are somehow going to magically purchase their gear.

No. They're not. They're going to purchase the stolen gear for much less and despite every company like Apple getting their teeth kicked in every single year they line up for a fresh kicking to the face every single year.

Smart companies have already left, having had too many teeth gone missing the past decade.

So we're not tied to China. In fact if the borders closed this very second the only thing that would happen is Americans would have to figure out how to manufacture a fucking bag of screws again. For that we have 3D printers - time to end this relationship entirely.

Bunch of thieves and their government is ran by a dictator professing to be a damned emperor of all things. Ridiculous. Good riddance.

−2

HanaBothWays t1_j2yow2b wrote

> The only companies interested in doing business in China are greedy companies that don’t mind when China allows it’s technology to be ripped off and copied.

This is laughably incorrect. Most of the manufactured products in your home have components that were fabricated or assembled in China. Whatever you typed that on? Partly if not completely assembled in China. Same for the routing equipment of your ISP that put it on the internet.

> Smart companies have already left, having had too many teeth gone missing the past decade.

No, a good chunk of the world’s global manufacturing is still there.

> So we’re not tied to China. In fact if the borders closed this very second the only thing that would happen is Americans would have to figure out how to manufacture a fucking bag of screws again.

Our economy would melt down overnight before we figured that out (so would theirs). We might not even have the means to build our own domestic production capacity for a century or so if we did that. Ask anyone who works in a statewide factory or a shipping or logistics company.

3

r0ughedges t1_j2ys40l wrote

PLEASE ban TikTok - it is cancer

−4

r0ughedges t1_j2ysagt wrote

>Why is Tik Tok the only app that does what it does? Can nobody in the US or any other part of the world make a similar app that’s better?

There are tons of clones? Check out Instagram Reels or Snapchat Spotlight

12

QuantumSpecter t1_j2yt7ae wrote

You just agreed that you dont respect the sovereignty of the chinese government. In that case, the most successful anarchist revolution has been carried out by the American empire- overthrowing customs, traditions, states and civilizations for the last 100 years

If you cant respect the sovereignty of foreign people and their governments, you’re no different than a neocon

−1

wickedalmond t1_j2yxy7f wrote

I think most people that agree with the OP will also agree with you there. There's a large group of people pulling out of social media now that the longer-term negatives are coming to light. A great cleansing.

9

sissichu t1_j2z0kou wrote

And how would you go about convincingly people to switch platforms?

Look at YouTube. Plenty of other sites have tried to become the new YouTube. I think even Microsoft tried with Vimeo or something, and failed to garner substantial userbase.

It's not that TikTok does something all that special. It's just the cool thing right now. Which is pretty ducking terrifying that people are ok with TikTok.

1

naql99 t1_j2z0xxb wrote

FWIW, nobody puts social media apps on GFE (or should), so it seems like a bit of a NOOP.

1

Farseli t1_j2zcwlx wrote

Yeah, I'm just gonna go back and keep enjoying the content I get. Oh no, the Chinese military are gonna know I was watching a guy debunking faux-nutrition advice (like someone saying to avoid enriched wheat because it has synthetic vitamins and minerals that the body turns to fat despite not having any caloric value).

−1

theblackfool t1_j2zdoil wrote

Everyone realizes it.

I think a considerable portion of the population has been hearing "they are spying on you/selling your information" for so long they just don't care. Or don't think there's anything they can do about so there's no point in fighting it. Either way.

16

nicuramar t1_j2ze11o wrote

> It’s a Chinese Spy app FFS. Why are people ignoring this?

Probably because it’s claimed, but not actually demonstrated to be so. You could make a similar claim (without “Chinese”) about, say, Facebook.

> but here you are giving everything you do, say, text,

Actually, just the stuff you put on tiktok.

> Jeez listen and learn, but you won’t because your stupid.

Personal attacks make for very poor arguments.

9

a_white_american_guy t1_j2zfjj9 wrote

Why is this important? Let’s just get to the part where it gets shitcanned and some other clone or whatever takes over.

1

PR05ECC0 t1_j2zfkc4 wrote

Reddit had massive Chinese investment. If you are worried about then you shouldn’t be on her either.

This story is such bullshit being funded and pushed by Meta and Google to try to slow down their competitors. The laws should apply to all social media or just shut the fuck up about it.

−1

antifragile t1_j2zkas8 wrote

Crony capitalism 101 - US mass media working hand in hand with government agencies to manufacture consent for banning as bombing isn't possible.

1

GetOutOfTheWhey t1_j2zsaps wrote

List of TikTok's crimes:

  1. Being Chinese
  2. Not being American
  3. Forcing users to accept ludicrous permissions that violate their privacy
  4. Promoting Vertical content when Horizontal content is objectively superior
  5. Recycling cringe meme formats within their user base
  6. Also polluting the interweb with video content that have annoying music stuck onto them with robotic voice narration.
−3

Realistic_Roll3566 t1_j2zscx0 wrote

Old Orange Man DJT said, he was gonna build his own... I guess like the wall I guess...

Can't remember if anyone in the middle thought it was a good idea?

Yet, it is pretty anti-capitalist--maybe just needs more regulation.

1

pilgermann t1_j2zy8yz wrote

Inertia, too. Like, there's almost no reason to still use SMS style messaging. In fact Apple's decision to make their messaging largely incompatible with texting outside their ecosystem is a huge reason for everyone to just move onto a platform like Whats App (yes, I know who owns it) or even something like Slack or Discord.

But here we are. I mean hell, the phone companies were charging for texts not so long ago and we still stuck with it.

2

fred7010 t1_j2zzofz wrote

If Flappy Bird taught us anything it's that there is probably profit to be made by buying iphones, installing tiktok, then selling them on ebay when it gets banned.

2

goingphishing t1_j3054xe wrote

They want to ban tiktok because young people are becoming liberal at unseen rates because of class consciousness. Not cause of data privacy. If they cared about us, they would pass laws to protect us from all social media companies. So tired of this take

17

DarkISO t1_j30g9td wrote

Because they dont like that something China based is so popular here. Its always the same "nooo its a national security issue, we must ban it reeee!" Yea theyre teying to get state secrets from meme and dance videos...

2

tornessa t1_j30jhpl wrote

Have you even used TikTok? The algorithm is better than any social media app in existence. It’s recommendations are very insightful. The entertainment value of the content is leagues ahead of Instagram or Facebook. Talk to any person who’s been on it for at least a month and they’ll tell you. It’s insanely addicting.

5

Azurfant t1_j30knlw wrote

Its not about the content.... Its about the fact that downloading and having Tik Tok on your phone grants Tik Tok AKA China the ability to collect as much data as they allow themselves. It is a Trojan Horse that helps itself to every piece of data on your phone even though it shouldn't be allowed to collect data to any extent beyond its own user profile information.

Again, its not about the content on Tik Tok. Its about the fact that the app stealthily helps itself to collecting as much information about you (from your phone) as is possible. The Chinese government can, and will, use that data and anything else unsavory it can find (think in terms of blackmail) to threaten, or control people (like politicians) in the future.

5

pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j30mi7t wrote

It’s also about the content.

What you create and consume.

That data is just like data of you browsing on Amazon. They use it to refine suggestions on what to show you next etc.

That also says a lot about your interests, political leanings, fetishes, medical issues etc. skipping certain videos or watching certain videos is feeding that algorithm. It knows you better than you know yourself. Hormones impact what interests/bores you before you even realize. Even menstrual cycles can be uncovered by data like this. Shopping habits can detect pregnancy before customers even realize their pregnant. People browse based on complex brain chemistry. Same thing goes for video and content you consume or create.

They could monetize it, use it for blackmail, use it as data points for misinformation campaigns etc.

I’m 100% convinced the whole antimask thing is a Russian and Chinese campaign to prove that they can perform a misinformation campaign at scale against a target. They convinced republicans who pride themselves on prepping for the end of the world with fallout shelters and gas masks to think a mask will kill them.

Imagine if they targeted US military and their families to desert? Or not wear necessary equipment? Or sabotage US assets.

They did that as a demo of what their misinformation weapon is capable of.

In 30 years this will be declassified and you’ll see this and the election interference were the real cuberwarfare. Not some “hackers” in a dark room with green text flying across a screen.

6

MochiMochiMochi t1_j30msdn wrote

So, TikTok was 'weaponized' to be harmful for certain countries and for select age groups? In what way?

YT Shorts and FB Reels exist because they copied the TikTok social graph and business model, which makes them also harmful but not intentionally since they're just copies?

Seems to me that TikTok, Shorts and Reels are all just mirrors to how stupid and banal most people are at any age. If we ban TikTok we should ban all of them, and I have no problem with that.

0

banana_man_777 t1_j30mx6a wrote

It's not just what you post that you give them access to. It's everything on your devices.

A possible use case? When are people more likely to be in certain areas? Essentially create population heat maps for use in a tactical war with the US for mass casualties. Or, perhaps, ways to politically influence the US for the benefit of China (like Russia has done).

Information is very powerful, and China is getting free access to droves of it.

14

hjaltih t1_j30tr8a wrote

US was not far from going authoritarian just a couple of years ago. People here were expecting civil war and full authorotarian regime to take over. Very happy that did not happen though, so I will continue selling my time for ads now.

0

jaam01 t1_j312zlz wrote

The media and the government conveniently are telling the Tik Tok story backwards. If the USA actually cared about privacy, they could make legislation to protect users' data, but they don't, because their own spyware companies would have to abide to those same laws (fairness), but of course, protecting users data and privacy is not in the interests of the USA's government. In fact, the FBI opposed Apple when they announced they are going to end to end encrypt the iPhone's iCloud back up, because "we could no longer snoop into it, think of the terrorists and children!" (yes, they practically said that). Also, this companies make you renounce your right to a class action lawsuit, so just the wealthy and people living in the USA can protect their rights against them. "Do as I say not as I do" "Rules for thee but not for me" "It's not bad when I'm the one doing it" The USA has no credibility to criticize Tik Tok.

5

jaam01 t1_j3130o1 wrote

The media and the government conveniently are telling the Tik Tok story backwards. If the USA actually cared about privacy, they could make legislation to protect users' data, but they don't, because their own spyware companies would have to abide to those same laws (fairness), but of course, protecting users data and privacy is not in the interests of the USA's government. In fact, the FBI opposed Apple when they announced they are going to end to end encrypt the iPhone's iCloud back up, because "we could no longer snoop into it, think of the terrorists and children!" (yes, they practically said that). Also, this companies make you renounce your right to a class action lawsuit, so just the wealthy and people living in the USA can protect their rights against them. "Do as I say not as I do" "Rules for thee but not for me" "It's not bad when I'm the one doing it" The USA has no credibility to criticize Tik Tok.

11

jaam01 t1_j3131l8 wrote

The media and the government conveniently are telling the Tik Tok story backwards. If the USA actually cared about privacy, they could make legislation to protect users' data, but they don't, because their own spyware companies would have to abide to those same laws (fairness), but of course, protecting users data and privacy is not in the interests of the USA's government. In fact, the FBI opposed Apple when they announced they are going to end to end encrypt the iPhone's iCloud back up, because "we could no longer snoop into it, think of the terrorists and children!" (yes, they practically said that). Also, this companies make you renounce your right to a class action lawsuit, so just the wealthy and people living in the USA can protect their rights against them. "Do as I say not as I do" "Rules for thee but not for me" "It's not bad when I'm the one doing it" The USA has no credibility to criticize Tik Tok.

2

Pichu_sonic_fan2545 t1_j317sbw wrote

Yeah I think that's why they have never been able to actually ban the app before. I guess same goes for why Facebook's many trials haven't led to much action against privacy on thier sites as you could argue that silencing certain advertisers would violate free speech.

2

Bleachrst85 t1_j31b8kd wrote

It's actually scary how few of these headlines can scare and make people follow so easily. Just the use of few words is enough to shift opinions of an entire group.

2

Strict_Nectarine_365 t1_j31ehrt wrote

I don't think tiktok is any worse than any other software company in regards to data collectiom and sales - including google and apple (or facebook)- what I do think it that TikTok has had a MASSIVE effect on western instability by pouring gasoline on the fires of certain social movements. The acceptance and subsequent attempt of a youthful population to address many of the social issues affecting us has been HIGHLY influenced by tiktok. TikTok is a massively popular social media platform designed to deliver information in a visual context - I have learned more about the world and its issues (issues facing marginalized groups, mental health, ect) in two years on tiktok than I have my entire life as someone who is very passionate about social issues and history. I've learned stuff on reddit - but reddit is made up mostly of American white men - tiktok is mostly women and poc. It gives a different perspective when the majority of people using and communicating on the app are subject to certain forms of 'second class citizen' status. Tiktok is also a surprisingly tolerant place to post about these issues - while you definitely get some of the vitriol you can find on any social media site, the majority of people are helpful, supportive and empathetic (most likely due to its high female user base) - and has become an extremely attractive platform for starting social movements based on inclusiveness.

Tiktok is doing the thing that people in power never want those without power to do - communicate and share ideas.

So part of me does have to wonder - how much of the backlash over tiktok, especially from government sources, is really about its ability to destabilize using social disruption vs just as a data collection threat?

Are we really doing this again, where the thing that Women, POC and the LGBTQ community find enjoyable suddenly becomes evil?

1

Kevy96 t1_j326dho wrote

Because number 1: for every 1000 useless idiots, one useful idiot that information can be extracted from will eventually make it's way to China through TikTok

Number 2: the Chinese media controls what the people see if it wants them to, meaning that it can plant subliminal messages, or perhaps post videos that paint China in a better light while painting America in a bad light without TikTok users even knowing it, especially bearing mind that so many of them are kids that can't tell up from down in life yet

3

QuantumSpecter t1_j3363pv wrote

Yes because the mode of production and the economic means that create the basis for doing that still existed. The british didnt settle in america because they felt like it, their economic situation necessitated it

2

justhereforthekittys t1_j34179l wrote

I read that in China, Tiktok dishes out science and educational videos to kids instead of stupid trends and weird indoctrination with the intent to divide.

It goes beyond being inside the gates. They have been inside the gates for years and society is just now starting to even notice. They have already won.

It's like a Trojan horse filled with stupid.

2

justhereforthekittys t1_j341qtu wrote

Tiktok goes way beyond spying. They are steering culture, generating political and familial divide and confusing the vary fabric of truth and science. All while using the same tool to push science and educational videos to their youngest members. Spying is the very least of the issue IMHO.

2