Comments
WhenRobLoweRobsLowes t1_ja8tudc wrote
Good concept, lots of potential, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the two leads are actually the bad guys who contributed to the fall of the titular organization.
Saar13 t1_ja8umbs wrote
My guesses: the critics will hate it; reddit will find failure and argue endlessly; the ratings will be high, better than the "darling" shows, but this sub will not accept it.
Until a new season of The Wheel of Time...
[deleted] t1_ja8uvmk wrote
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chilloutfam t1_ja8vhou wrote
Seems like it'll be an easy watch. A show like that, I feel like you can't make it too serialized, otherwise you'll deter people from jumping on. I'll check it out.
jez124 t1_ja8vm76 wrote
This will be a hit like gray man and the other cop/military/detective shows on amazon but I hope it's good. While the spinoffs from other countries ideas sounds good on paper .....its all a bit much.
The Gray man was a waste.
shogi_x t1_ja8vsal wrote
Isn't this exactly what they bought the Clancy franchise for? Jack Ryan, No Remorse, leading into Rainbow Six, and maybe Splinter Cell?
dysfunctionalpress t1_ja8w6lx wrote
i'd rather that they had put more effort into carnival row.
Frazzledsoul t1_ja8wdq3 wrote
There's been quite a few pieces about the behind the scenes troubles of this series. Business Insider claims the show may have spent nearly 300 million dollars for three hours of content. The Hollywood Reporter reported that several writers and producers quit because the Russos had two competing versions of the series and couldn't decide which one they preferred. It's a mess, and the final product likely is going to be...well, worthy of the kind of movies the Russo brothers make for Netflix.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/russo-bros-amazon-series-citadel-1235210256/
Neo2199 OP t1_ja8weqr wrote
Maybe they thought they were working for the good guys, but the Citadel turned out to be an evil organization, like The Alliance of Twelve (Alias), that’s why they set out to destroy it, to save the world!
EternalGandhi t1_ja8xeie wrote
The Russos are involved? This will be a gamble.
Frazzledsoul t1_ja8xf5m wrote
They're going to need very high ratings to justify the cost of this series. Supposedly the production costs were 160 million at a minimum.
I don't think it's going to be as popular as their other military thriller stuff like Jack Ryan and The Terminal List. No idea how the critics will see it.
im_a_dick_head t1_ja8y7s7 wrote
I'm very excited for this, Madden is a must watch actor.
im_a_dick_head t1_ja8ydbd wrote
They kind of did, it's just not a popular genre
Juan_Kagawa t1_ja8z23f wrote
Amazon should be funding Richard Madden in Oasis.
lightsongtheold t1_ja8zaun wrote
Why would it not be popular? All the Russo Brothers stuff lately with the exception of Cherry on Apple has been well viewed. To not be a flop Citadel absolutely has to beat viewership numbers for The Terminal List. I’m also pretty sure they will be disappointed if it does not best Jack Ryan.
lightsongtheold t1_ja8zfjn wrote
Sad but true. This sort of fantasy tale is niche even among hardcore fantasy fans.
dysfunctionalpress t1_ja8ziia wrote
how did they "kind of" put more effort into it than they actually did?
im_a_dick_head t1_ja9035u wrote
They put a lot of effort into that show but it didn't get a whole lot of viewers compared to their other shows, also because their main audience is dad's.
MadeByTango t1_ja90w2k wrote
Ah, another attempt by prime to push appointment viewing; Nope, especially a spy show, gotta be able to binge and keep investment low
CitizenKeen t1_ja91oje wrote
> 3 million dollars for three hours of content
That sounds cheap?
dysfunctionalpress t1_ja91qrt wrote
and my comment was that i wish that they had put more effort into it than they actually had. which they didn't do, "kind of" or otherwise.
btw- why does your father have an audience..? are you orlando bloom's kid?
Frazzledsoul t1_ja91ts3 wrote
Typo. It's actually (allegedly) 300 million dollars.
That doesn't sound cheap to me.
hagbardceline69420 t1_ja92en5 wrote
great, another ''ambitious'' series by Amazon smh
wujo444 t1_ja94ltj wrote
Spy shows really took off lately, but it doesn't feel like that quality followed.
Thongs0ng t1_ja94r7u wrote
Prime really wants to break into “prestige” television on the level of HBO, but they’ve never quite been able to make a water-cooler show no matter how much money they throw at it.
The closest they’ve come is The Boys, but even that isn’t on the level of HBO/classic AMC offerings. I wonder what the missing ingredient is.
VitaLonga t1_ja98yip wrote
Huh, it’s almost like people watch whatever’s new on Netflix regardless of quality!
None of the people in this show are draws for the men who are expected to watch it. I have zero doubt that it will do worse than the Terminal List and Jack Ryan. JMO, of course
TapedeckNinja t1_ja991ms wrote
It seems like Amazon has found a gap in the streaming market for the so-called "dad shows", and they're hitting it hard.
Reacher, Jack Ryan, The Terminal List, Citadel. Probably Bosch/Bosch: Legacy fits into that niche as well. They've got Cross coming soon, and that Terminal List prequel with Taylor Kitsch, and a Butch Cassidy show. Probably some other stuff I'm missing.
NeoNoireWerewolf t1_ja99udo wrote
That's James Cameron money, and I have this weird suspicion the Russos aren't going to give Amazon the bang for their buck that Cameron would.
NeoNoireWerewolf t1_ja9a9ne wrote
Wasn't Marvelous Mrs. Maisel huge for a couple of seasons? And it got a ton of awards attention. Feels like that is their biggest hit to date, even more so than The Boys, but I'm basing that more off the number of every day people I saw talking about Maisel compared to The Boys, actual data might be a different story.
Locutus747 t1_ja9alfh wrote
Yea but I don’t think critical reception for the last two seasons has been as high. I’ve only watched the first two and really enjoyed them
lightsongtheold t1_ja9b16k wrote
Folks do not watch whatever is new on Netflix. As seen by the failure of 4 of the last 5 English language shows released by Netflix in finding an audience (The Upshaws, Red Rose, Freeridge, and Lockwood & Co).
Amazon also tend to miss with most of their shows. They do tend to do well with older male aimed action shows. Citadel fits that mould. It will also get a big marketing push as it will be Amazon’s biggest budget TV release of 2023. The Russo Brothers will be pushed more than the cast (though the cast are competent and not a turn off to the demo). Amazon have two international spinoffs of this show filming and two more in the works. They are invested in making this show work and getting behind it.
jnhf24 t1_ja9d5yw wrote
I hate how everything needs a million spinoffs nowadays. Especially before anything's been put out.
NeoNoireWerewolf t1_ja9dibc wrote
Okay, let me preface this by saying this is one of those, "I know a guy..." stories, so I don't blame anybody being skeptical of what I'm about to say, but I swear, I do know somebody who was involved with Jack Ryan at Amazon, and they are currently working on another Clancy project elsewhere. Long story short, Jack Ryan was dead before the fourth season was even announced as the final one. Hell, it was dead before they even started filming season three. It was a shitshow behind the scenes and John Krasinski is difficult to work with. They fast-tracked seasons three and four to shoot basically one after another because Krasinski wanted out of the show to focus on his directorial career. The odds of him popping up in any other Clancy-related media as Ryan are pretty low.
As for Amazon owning the Clancy "franchise," I don't think that's really correct considering Michael B. Jordan's Rainbow Six movie is in development with Paramount (who unceremoniously dumped Without Remorse to Amazon in the first place), and the Splinter Cell animated show is going to be on Netflix. The Terminal List was a much bigger hit for Amazon than Jack Ryan, and seems like it probably cost Amazon a good bit less overall, too. Between that and The Boys, I do wonder if Amazon is starting to look more adapting newer IP instead of chasing legacy franchises, since most of their endeavors on that front (Jack Ryan, Rings of Power) haven't really been the shows driving people to their service, despite massive marketing campaigns.
Thongs0ng t1_ja9e3ss wrote
The other commenter gave the correct answer I think - critical/audience reception kinda tapered off.
And water-cooler show, I meant more like Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, White Lotus, Last of Us, Ted Lasso, Stranger Things, Yellowstone kinda. Shows that have a strong social and cultural impact - Amazon has been trying hard to get something like that (most notably Rings of Power) for some reason despite their resources can’t seem to make it happen.
mountainhighgoat t1_ja9esrn wrote
Massive failure.
franceha t1_ja9gfcz wrote
Carnival Row got hit by covid more than most, I wouldn't blame Amazon for that one.
Frazzledsoul t1_ja9hdnr wrote
Their main problem is that their audience tends to be older and likely more conservative. They will watch the crap out of something like The Rings of Power and Jack Ryan (The Rings of Power whopped House of the Dragon in streaming ratings every week but one) but they won't talk about it online.
The Boys is their only real water-cooler show, I think. I don't think this show will break the pattern.
Frazzledsoul t1_ja9i9sc wrote
The Butch Cassidy show is also a franchise headed by the Russo brothers. This is why I doubt they're tied long term to the main version of Citadel, because they seemingly want to already start a new one.
I don't think this show is a "dad" show, though. It's too internationally focused for that. I don't see the dad types taking to Madden for a variety of reasons.
DingoFrisky t1_ja9lfyp wrote
Last season of Jack Ryan really became 'Dad TV'. Just the stuff your dad tells you about
SinisterDexter83 t1_ja9lzf4 wrote
The Russos did a fantastic job on Infinity War and End Game, not trying to take anything away from them as I think those two films are an incredible achievement, but most of that money came from the franchise. They've got two of the highest grossing films ever, not because of their skill as directors, but because they filmed the MCU season finale.
Cameron will dream up his own 2 billion dollar movie for you from scratch. I didn't even think the new Avatar movie was all that good, it was okay, I had fun, nothing special. But I'll still go see the next one, because I'm guaranteed a proper cinema experience. Cameron guarantees that, and the audience know it.
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Frazzledsoul t1_ja9n1re wrote
They won't and they aren't going to get that money back. Other than the reports on how much money this was costing, I have rarely seen this project even acknowledged since it was greenlit back in 2019. It has rarely been acknowledged as a project to look out for in 2023 or acknowledged by Amazon. I heard about The Rings of Power and Daisy Jones for months and months.
I find it hard to believe that Amazon considers this a crown jewel at this point and their most promising program. They seem to be starting the PR from scratch.
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Fawqueue t1_ja9nrfv wrote
RoP didn't beat HotD overall, though. Higher streaming, but those figures didn't take into account the roughly 2mil viewers watching on HBO proper. Factoring the ENTIRE viewership into account RoP was the one getting whooped each week.
Frazzledsoul t1_ja9oqtn wrote
Hence why I said streaming ratings. Point being, TROP was very popular, but not talked about widely online. It was also preferred by "older" viewers (adults 25-54) to HOTD.
MerrillSwingAway t1_ja9q2b2 wrote
Richard Madden is difficult to watch in anything because he sucks so bad.
TapedeckNinja t1_ja9q570 wrote
Well they were originally just producing Citadel AFAIK, and then swooped in and shitcanned the writers/directors and took over the project themselves.
I think the Butch Cassidy show is the same deal, the Russo's are EPs but they're not currently attached as writers or directors on it.
They've got a bunch of projects currently ongoing, including The Electric State for Netflix which they are directing.
ThomasVivaldi t1_ja9qfqk wrote
Why is she holding her arms out like she's got those Black Widow wrist taser things on?
strith t1_ja9r6z4 wrote
I bet this show is going to be fun regardless of it’s past issues.
strith t1_ja9rfl7 wrote
Very excited for this show.
bornelite t1_ja9tflg wrote
The terrible UI/UX can’t help.
Vizjun t1_ja9u6tf wrote
Ah yes the one of the most trusted spy tools. A shotgun... Can we please get a spy series that's more like Tinker Tailor, or the Americans, or something in the middle.
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m1ndwipe t1_ja9wxdx wrote
It is not.
The Get Down seems quite good value in retrospect.
Radulno t1_ja9xbkd wrote
Yeah lol it premiere in 2 months and we have seen basically nothing from it. They were promoting Rings of Power or even stuff like Jack Reacher or The Boys more and earlier than this show.
Radulno t1_ja9xhx9 wrote
To be fair, if people watch (and sub for) a show, it doesn't matter if it isn't talked about online.
anasui1 t1_ja9zck8 wrote
did she forget to grab a gun or what?
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nickb_21 t1_jaa1c6r wrote
But the question is: Did new people subscribe to Amazon because of TROP or did most of them just watch it because they already had Amazon Prime anyway?
Frazzledsoul t1_jaa37sa wrote
IMO, they got lucky with Marvel.
Their subsequent projects have easily exposed their flaws.
dani3po t1_jaa4mlu wrote
"Bodyguard" was excellent.
CarpenterAndSuch t1_jaa5a4v wrote
The Get Down was worth every penny!
lanfordr t1_jaa8lka wrote
Check out the QR code in the last picture for a Teaser.
astanton1862 t1_jaac2lx wrote
> they already had Amazon Prime anyway
Probably the later, but one of the reasons I keep prime around is because they release 4 or 5 good series a year.
Daisy-Navidson t1_jaaeqpq wrote
She’s doing Generic Action Lady stance
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Valiantheart t1_jaagy38 wrote
Yeah but Jack Ryan only had one good season. S2 was terrible.
Coz91 t1_jaalizv wrote
Well, The Grey Man was so generic and boring. Any hope of this being good is gone for me.
Coz91 t1_jaam1x1 wrote
Slow Horses is a phenomenal spy show
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Cash907 t1_jaayzlw wrote
Seriously how much more money does Jennifer Salke have to burn before Bezos fires her ass? Does she have blackmail photos on him? Did he get drunk at a party and touch her inappropriately or what?
ZealousidealBus9271 t1_jab0ekn wrote
You’re underestimating how massive the Russos and priyanka chopra are in India. I think this will be one of the biggest shows on Amazon.
ZealousidealBus9271 t1_jab0j2w wrote
Priyanka has a huge following. People will definitely tune in for her.
ZealousidealBus9271 t1_jab0qvd wrote
I’d rather Richard work on the supposed season 2 of that show instead of this imo.
DoomPurveyor t1_jab0zeb wrote
Madden was good in the Medici Netflix show as well
bros402 t1_jab3ydw wrote
I took a survey about Citadel back in 2020 (The NDA was 2 years) holy shit I am surprised it is still in production, it was... uhhh... not the highest quality plot outline I read
Frazzledsoul t1_jab60ge wrote
I heard a rumor quite a while ago that Madden wasn't actually the real lead (no idea about Priyanka) and there was some sort of major twist related to that. Can you enlighten us on that one?
I think they were in production for at least thirteen months (if not more) which sounds extremely excessive.
RunningToStayStill t1_jab7kd4 wrote
Madden was tremendous in Bodyguard. He needs a proper drama role.
bros402 t1_jab84mm wrote
Okay, so i'm not gonna type out a summary of the survey - but based on what I read + what it was asking me, it sounded a lot like it was going to be Male Spy is fish out of water and Female Spy does spy stuff.
Frazzledsoul t1_jab96x6 wrote
Yeah, that's what the VF article seemed to indicate. The rumor I heard a long time ago was that Madden wasn't the real male lead and it was actually a German actor. I have no idea who the other person was supposed to be.
bros402 t1_jab9uzt wrote
One of the side characters was listed as "a stanley tucci type"
but he sounded like he was going to stay a side character, but who knows
btw, if you want to get the chance to watch pilots and read plot outlines, I get around ~6 a year on a survey site I am on. I have a referral link to it if you want to join it - I get around $5-$15 when I do a TV show survey.
Cash907 t1_jabdbly wrote
I mean she’s armed with fists of fury, so he’s gotta up his game with some 12 gauge Beretta action.
obscureposter t1_jabdzrz wrote
While her acting is atrocious in both her Bollywood and Hollywood outings, she has a huge fan base in India and they will watch.
kappa23 t1_jabfzd8 wrote
Bosch is totally a dad show, its the only thing my dad has watched on his Prime account
kappa23 t1_jabg3k4 wrote
This doesn't bode well for the Indian remake starring Samantha Ruth Prabhu and Varun Dhawan I guess. Though the Russos are just producing it, the show runners are Raj & DK who are superb
PetyrDayne t1_jabglv6 wrote
"Bringing you up to speed is like trying to explain Norway to a dog." Lamb is such a dick but enjoyable to watch
PetyrDayne t1_jabgp8y wrote
You need to watch The Little Drummer Girl if you haven't already
Vizjun t1_jabh65z wrote
ill check it out, thanks for the recommendation. these were just what came to mind tho
PetyrDayne t1_jabhsh7 wrote
It's based on another le carré book and stars Michael Shannon, the hot Skarsgard and Florence Pugh. I think you'll love it.
DC4MVP t1_jabk4av wrote
And that's saying something beings coked out/psychopathic Chris Evans is anything but generic & boring.
DC4MVP t1_jabk9xf wrote
Are they still going ahead with Rainbow Six?
Without Remorse has to be the most forgettable movie in that genre.
DC4MVP t1_jabkg38 wrote
Malcolm In The Middle as a spy show?
I'm in.
horseren0ir t1_jabl3sm wrote
The set me free song was a banger
horseren0ir t1_jabl7tk wrote
That’s not a remake it’s a spin-off, those actors are in citadel
kappa23 t1_jabllsh wrote
Oh okay, thanks for the correction
Halo909 t1_jabpecy wrote
A hundred million for 1 hour? WTF. Didn't the entire lord of the rings series with all the movies cost something like 250m - 300m? Or something close in that range.
limpoc t1_jac12ns wrote
I'm not the person you're replying to but I would definitely be interested in that survey site link.
[deleted] t1_jac5vi9 wrote
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[deleted] t1_jac64k0 wrote
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mickeyflinn t1_jac6n3i wrote
Amazon just churns out crap. It is really bizarre how the service just keeps misfiring.
Caleb902 t1_jac8qyc wrote
I just want a second season of the bodyguard. So I'll begrudgingly watch anything with Madden in it to scratch that itch
[deleted] t1_jacbtxg wrote
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i81u812 t1_jacft5c wrote
How many times homeslice put 'Amazon' in the title of this post is 'interesting'.
Logical-Balance9075 t1_jacleaj wrote
Interesting, could be the male spy has difficulty getting his memory back. But considering the behind the scenes drama with the producers and stuff, I wonder how much has changed since 2020.
Logical-Balance9075 t1_jaclmtv wrote
They should have done that one.
Logical-Balance9075 t1_jacm98c wrote
Not sure if this is still happening but Michael Peña is supposed to guest star in the final season of Jack Ryan and his character get a spin off. https://deadline.com/2022/05/jack-ryan-end-season-4-final-season-spinoff-michael-pena-ding-chavez-amazon-tom-clancy-1235014723/
bros402 t1_jacqa44 wrote
I hope a lot has changed since 2020, since it sounded a lot like "male spy will be weak, woman spy will be strong independent woman" - not that that is bad, but it was written badly.
Frazzledsoul t1_jad1s3i wrote
I think the spin-offs will be fine but I can't see them doing more than one season of the main show if it's going to cost that much money for that little content each time.
Logical-Balance9075 t1_jad1tub wrote
I hope a lot has changed.
Mushroomer t1_jad5vrn wrote
I think "got lucky" is a bit unfair - they seem to be really talented at working with a producer like Feige who has a specific vision he already wants fulfilled. It's when they're given the reigns completely that things get a bit bland.
Throw them on another franchise with clear material to adapt, I'm sure they do something memorable again.
bros402 t1_jadcxpx wrote
me too - it seems like a fun concept.
tuxxer t1_jaedswt wrote
Im waiting for him to get the lead in the next superman franchise
AnointedInKerosene t1_jaef7d2 wrote
Can I get that link too?
AnointedInKerosene t1_jaefcnm wrote
I’m still salty about that.
waitmyhonor t1_jaf4ym3 wrote
Slough House on Apple TV. Boom, you’re welcome
Neo2199 OP t1_ja8sybc wrote
> When head of Amazon Studios Jen Salke came to Joe and Anthony Russo with an unusual idea for a TV show, they were intrigued by the potential to do something brand-new.
> Salke imagined an action spy show that was the first-ever global TV series, with a main show and then local offshoots around the world, starring local talent. It had never been done before, but that’s what the Russo brothers liked about it from the start. “Anthony and I have reached a point in our careers where the ambition is the compelling part of the approach for us,” Joe Russo tells Vanity Fair. “We’re looking for new ways to tell stories.”
> Through their production company, AGBO, the Russos embarked on a years-long journey to bring Citadel to life. The Amazon series stars Richard Madden and Priyanka Chopra Jonas as elite spies who work for Citadel, a spy organization that has no allegiance to any country. As seen in Vanity Fair’s exclusive first-look images, the high-concept, action-packed spy thriller is set after the fall of the spy organization, when the two agents must attempt to piece together what happened. One of the main problems: Their memories have been wiped. “This is secrets on steroids,” showrunner David Weil says.
> With standout supporting performances by Stanley Tucci and Lesley Manville, this ambitious new series will premiere its first two episodes on Prime Video on April 28. It’s a big, bold swing—and it’s actually just the beginning, with spin-off series already deep into production around the world. “We’re not just creating a story, we’re creating this world that’s spanning countries and continents,” Madden says. “That can be daunting, but also super exciting.”