Submitted by evilclownattack t3_yysu8j in todayilearned
The government is at best just one of its divisions.
Wendover Productions just did a video about Samsung a few days ago on YouTube. Highly suggest checking it out.
I’d post a link but laziness
>Wendover Productions
Good bot
I don't think they're a bot.
Everyone on Reddit is a bot except for you
Yep. Cheaebols are essentially massive industrial conglomerates which also have very strong presence in the government
So basically a state-run company?
State-run company would be more like socialism/Communism. The idea of the Chaebols is more like oligarchy of several different (sometimes intertwined via marriage) family run conglomerates.
So more like company-run state?
It's changing a little but it's a very slow change. I think Samsung recently toyed with the idea of putting a non-family member in charge for a bit and then backed out.
Imagine a European noble family saw the winds of change coming, and prior to getting merged into a larger empire or ousted in a revolution, decided to just get into business. Or imagine the Rockefellers, Fords, and Waltons on steroids (and lasting centuries instead of fizzling into nothing in 3 generations or so).
Yeah exactly. If you ask any actual economist who knows about east asian economic systems, they would say so. But ignorant basic redditors have this strange 80s/90s dystopian cyberpunk wet dream(mostly based on anti-asian stereotype) and want to depict east asain countries the way how mainstream western media have been for decades. So it is basically a meme.
South korea had economy driven by government until asian financial crisis in 1997. Chaebol was born by dictator general park in 60s/70s to micro-mange every indistrial sectors/trading goods and boost investment when south korea did not have much manufacturing industry back then. The entry to each industrial sectors was ristricted for only 2-3 chaebols to promote competition and they were never allowed to own bank(they are still not allowed by the laws) but government mainly used carrot and stick policy. For that reason they are definately not immune to conviction for corruption or embezzlement etc. South korean justice system naver hesitated to send chaebol to prison. However in many cases they got lesser sentences or received pardon when they make a deal with the government. For example, samsung CEO Lee got his pardon right after he made a deal to build semi-conductor factory in the US. And government never allows them to pay less taxes. South korea is still one of the countries with highest corporation tax rate.
Many south koreans hates chaebols because they are exploiting their employees & subcontractor and decepting consumers, not because they are in charge on nation, as many people on reddit want to believe. And that kind of shit happens all over the globe. What kind of country ran by private corporation has single-payer universial healthcare, mandatory paid leave(parenting, sick, vacation), national pension program, unemployment benefits, child benefits, basic income, etc etc? What does it make the US?
What happens if one of chaebol want to get out of leash? Well, look what happend to Chung Mong-hun, the founder of Hyundai group.
The most poweful and influencial interest group in south korea is actually the prosecutory authority. And current conservative president is one of them.
What was it called, the Council of Fairies?
I commented exact the same thing lol
This BS again? Historically, hyundai had more connections with beuarocratic government especially when it comes to north korean policy. Samsung never has been a 'traditional' partner. Btw former hyundai CEO killed himself because government pushed him to do so. And samsung ceo went to jail because the government wanted to do so. Whtat kind of puppet government does that? Americna/european on Reddit and youtube should stop with their 80s & 90s distopian cyberpunk wet dream fantasy, just because they are lazy as fuck and never look into actual sources. They just reproduce and spread their existing prejudice over and over again.
Hyundai, LG and Samsung are all different variations of the same playbook. I won't call any of them any better.
The Samsung CEO was released from jail and pardoned because apparently he is the best person to head the company, name another normal country where such a thing would happen.
America and Europe are no better, but that doesn't make Korea not bad. In fact, what is happening in Korea is just an exaggeration of the corporate west.
I did not say south korea is good. All I am saying is 'company-run-state' kind of thing is pure echoroom fantasy. There is no significant exaggeration either. South korean companies actually do pay taxes and government provides social safe nets by demand of people, such as single-payer universial healthcare, mandatory paid leave for both parents, for sick and for vacation, national pension service, basic income, unemplyment benefit, child benefit, state-run-nursery etc etc. corrupt politicians get actual impeachment and imprisonment. South Koreans went through a lot of shit in modern history. Even after korean war, four seperate regimes were overthrown by people. They obviously have rebellious nature in their blood, contrast to depiction of western mainstream media, which want to paint all east asians as submissive and mindless. It is just an usual ordinary country, or a socialist country if you compare to the US.
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You forgot Lotte.
According to this entry, the signs were considered a failure and they just put barricades up in 2015.
Huh was it the one where the signs went like 'you don't even have guts to do it' with a smirking face next to it? There was one in Korea some time ago iirc
Edit: nvm it was 'can you even swim?'
One of them say "The wind is nice" in above article
‘Do a flip!’
Do a barrel roll!
Unfortunately there have been a number of studies that have shown that this type of thing actually increases the number of deaths rather than prevents them. The theory goes that if someone is in a negative headspace but they haven't considered suicide, seeing this type of message can put the idea in their head, leading to their deaths.Even just placing flowers at the spot where someone jumped can cause a spike in the number of deaths. This is why the news no longer reports that someone committed suicide but rather that they just died suddenly. Unfortunately it's incredibly difficult to tell someone that their well meaning idea is actually causing more harm, and that they shouldn't place flowers to commemorate their loved ones.
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oh my, who would have thought?
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I read somewhere that it actually had the opposite effect and caused a spike in suicides, although it couldn’t be determined if it was because of the messages (if you’re lonely what is a picture of a happy family if not salt in the wound), or if it was the renewed media attention of the bridge as a place of suicide influencing people to choose the bridge who may have chosen other methods.
>if you’re lonely what is a picture of a happy family if not salt in the wound
Exactly. "There is so much beauty in the world." Yea, I see it. At my neighbors, at the shop and in TV. Jesus fucking christ.
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It might be similar to Instagram where everybody goes to take pictures at places they constantly see pictures of
"Hang in there baby" poster on the suicide bridge is cheaper than dignified working conditions
Never give up!
-Frog choking pelican
Who's gonna pay taxes if you kill yourself?
-Mom
Copyright 1968. Determined or not, that cat is long dead. That's kind of a downer.
>Copyright 1968. Determined or not, that cat is long dead.
It's a superposition until the box is opened
I got that reference
"HANG" in all caps
In hindsight, putting ‘Get back to work! You ugly bitch!’ signs on a bridge that’s an infamous suicide spot wasn’t a great idea
It's worth looking up just how powerful Samsung is in South Korea.
Start at "The Korean president must be approved by Samsung before running" and make sure you catch that "A majority of seats in the National Assembly are occupied by candidates endorsed by Samsung".
Where did you find that presidential candidates have to be approved by Samsung? Legit never heard of it. Couldn't find anything online about it either
I'm guessing they mean as less of a legal mandate, and more that candidates that aren't don't go very far.
Sounds like what they tried to do with trump endorsements
I mean, it’s not different in the US, even the Democratic Party is sludged by big pharma and health insurance money.
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Yeah it's the democrats fault we don't have m4a /s
It's both parties fault, and democrats are definitely partly to blame.
It's a country run by a corporation.
Works well for Vatican City.
Wow. Cyberpunk dystopia is actually closer than I thought. Y'know huge megacorp pulling the strings of the government.
Studies have shown that if you hinder popular suicide methods like bridges, less people commit suicide. The public is convinced that suicidal people will find any way to commit suicide but it seems for many it is a product of a build up over time and an opportunity. Take away that opportunity and many people end up finding relief. So the government can't enact any measures because the public won't support it, but life insurance companies know it works so they do it anyway.
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You couldn't get the word people in there even one time?
Are you implying insurance companies are people?
Corporations are people too.
At least he didn't say "You people".
Well now, we wouldn't want the blacks thinking they're people like us right?
(obligatory /s)
Put it in your blog.
IIRC the rate of suicide in Britain plummeted when they changed the type of gas used in ovens.
Suicide rates in countries with stringent firearm controls are also lower.
I watched the Wendover video about Samsung recently.
Here's a bunch of things I am just going to post now as an expert on south Korean politics.
Damn dude, summarized this entire comments section in a single breath.
I watched a documentary about how the Canadian government is euthanizing anyone who wants to die.
I am an expert on all things Canadian. Ask me anything about Canada.
Ermmm. What's your favourite smell?
Meese farts.
Moosen*
What are the differences between a female moose farting and a male moose farting?
Unlike male meese, if you analyze the sine wave of the fart of female meese, you will notice that is is actually two waves superimposed on top of each other.
I thought life insurance policies don’t pay out if you commit suicide?
That's only if it's within the first 2 years of getting the policy, if it's done after 2 years the insurance companies are legally required to pay out.
Yep, so only 19 months to go!
I know you're probably joking, but on the offchance you're not, PM me if you ever want to talk. I've been down the road of suicidal ideation and found a way to hang on, I can share tips and what I found helpful
Edit: Thank you to the nice person who reached out to Reddit Cares for me, to clarify I'm okay and not currently suicidal
> I can share tips and what I found helpful
tip one:
if you have a firearm at home, get rid of it asap
I have another one: stay away from trains
but gun
Is this how it works there, or how it works where you are?
I had my life insurance license in the US, but a quick Google search showed me the Suicide exclusion clause in South Korea is also 24 months.
It'll depend on the insurer surely. Mine is 12 months
Depends on the local laws, but a good chunk of them pay out after x amount of time on the policy.
Yup this is a common misconception, after 2 years a policy is incontestable and in most states coverage can’t be denied. Of course the vast majority of life insurance these days is term so would be for the first 2 years each time you renew.
Different policies are different. Most won’t pay out for the first few years, for obvious reasons.
Group policies will often not have this condition as people won't be able to get a policy specifically because they're going to commit suicide.
Our rulers could not give one single fuck for us, and private corporations ONLY care about our money.
This is a perfect example.
I remember once when I was a really little kid in the car with my dad and he stopped at a stop sign and I asked "Dad, how does the police officer know if you stopped because you actually wanted to stop and not just because you didn't wanna get in trouble?" And he laughed and said "the police don't care why I stopped. They only care that I stopped."
Comments like this sometimes feel like they're coming from me as that little kid. I don't know why you care about whether Samsung really loves you deep down in their hearts. If their incentives are aligned such that they end up doing something good, that's a success of the system.
A system that accomplishes good things because of greed is better than one that seeks to do so in spite of it. Greed always wins. Better to use it than fight it.
The phrasing that economists use for that is "aligning incentive structures"
They ended up doing less than the bare minimum, though. This didn't work and it didn't address the underlying conditions that made people suicidal. I don't care whether Samsung loves people deep down in their hearts. I care whether people will live good lives, and right now, far too many of them won't, and there's no incentive for Samsung or any other megacorp to change that and a lot of incentive for them to make it worse. If this is the response the system produces to mass suicides, the system is failing.
Lol so your big issue here is that they didn't actually solve the entire problem of suicide? Is that an expectation you would've had for Samsung before you heard this story? Or can a corporation only do a good thing if that thing completely solves some huge societal problem forever?
Let's connect some dots. Samsung's life insurance division put these photos on the bridge. This means Samsung's life insurance division was paying out to a lot of these suicides. This means that a lot of the suicides were Samsung employees. I don't know whether the suicides were disproportionately Samsung employees or whether they happened an average amount and Samsung is just a big company, but I do know that people's suicide risk is not disconnected from their socioeconomic status. If your job is shitty and soul-crushing or your pay is just barely making you scrape by with no improvement in sight, your mental health is going to end up in the gutter.
And Samsung has the responsibility, both because every single corporation has that responsibility and because Samsung is by far the largest corporation in South Korea and has massive influence over its society in general, to provide its employees with good working conditions and a wage sufficient to live a decent life on. I don't expect Samsung to solve the entire problem of suicide. I do expect (though this is hardly unexpected) them to do more to address the role they do undoubtably have in that problem than plaster a bridge with some feel-good photos.
A corporation choosing to do a cheap publicity stunt rather than anything that affects the material conditions on those dependent on income from it to survive is not all that much better than nothing and demonstrates that they are working their workers to suicide knowingly and by choice.
Just curious - where are you getting the idea that these are Samsung employees committing suicide en masse? The article just says it was a common suicide spot.
>Samsung's life insurance division put these photos on the bridge. This means Samsung's life insurance division was paying out to a lot of these suicides. This means that a lot of the suicides were Samsung employees.
I think you're misunderstanding what this article meant. It's the division of Samsung that sells life insurance, not the division that handles life insurance for its employees.
> It's the division of Samsung that sells life insurance, not the division that handles life insurance for its employees.
Ah, okay, I did misunderstand that, yes.
I was getting the idea that a significant number of the suicides were Samsung employees based on the fact that Samsung Life Insurance, which I thought was life insurance for Samsung employees, was paying to put up these signs, presumably with the aim of paying out less life insurance to Samsung employees who committed suicide.
It's still statistically speaking probably true that a significant number of these suicides are Samsung employees, though, given that the bridge is located in South Korea and Samsung is by far the largest company in South Korea.
>It's still statistically speaking probably true that a significant number of these suicides are Samsung employees, though, given that the bridge is located in South Korea and Samsung is by far the largest company in South Korea.
Okay well I guess to me it just sounds unreasonable to think that this means that they're so responsible for all Koreans' well being that any good thing they do can be criticized as "not even the bare minimum" unless they pretty much solve the problem.
I don't recall ever needing a ruler to give a fuck about me OR that anyone other than myself has to care about my money.
Humans really are a confused bunch.
Would you consider this a privilege, or do you actually think that the entirety of humanity has that luxury?
I don't think everyone has the privelege of reading your reply to my reply to the comment of OP's content, however I do believe if you and I work together we can provide that luxury to all humanity by enshrining this moment somehow... any ideas?
OK.
Would you consider the fact that you “don’t recall ever needing a ruler to give a fuck about [you] OR that anyone other than [yourself] has to care about [your] money” a privilege, or do you actually think that the entirety of humanity has that luxury?
If it is a privelege then it is a privelege I give myself, if it is a luxury then it is because I've elevated the artform of the English language to such heights as to only have followers of the examples I set, and whether or not all of humanity wants to experience the joy that is superior communication skills is an exercise left for a given individual to attempt, occupy, pursue, or present.
​
I am Source, Material, and Inspiringly Interesting: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqF61tQWcaAHpBDAkmPNxMiLUM5FDhOzV
You’re so close to passing the Turing test, but the lack of comprehension isn’t quite hidden by the appeal to absurdity.
I agree that the fact anyone finds me appealing is a joke in and of itself, much like the word 'privelege' and 'luxury' when compared to my cultural language of Vagus Story Hands.
Are you implying that I'm confused about something? If so, please explain and specify so that I can explain any point or confusion.
Well, you are definitely confused by his message
Could be. I'm certainly capable of getting confused.
Then isn't the implication of confusion eternal and something that nobody could defeat?
​
Relavent material: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE
Rather liberating isn't it?
The only real difference is that I expect companies to only care about money. That makes them predictable. It's the government people that are problematic because they're supposed to be elected to represent us, but they don't in varying degrees.
If all companies only care about money then what is money and why doesn't it need so much care? Is money trying to predict human reaction profiles? They would actually succeed if they learned the Vagus Martial Arts of Ego.
Money exists because bartering is inefficient. That's all.
Teaching is indeed the superior superlative semantic shaker. That's why I just teach people how to get paid by other people who aren't me. What other lesson is there in any given economy?
Samsung owns the South Korean government my comrade.
They produce weapons for SK as well lol
I mean… yeah? Japan has a very similar system. Corporations, the government, and banks all work together in one massive partnership.
I can see how you guys think this is bad and apocalyptic, but it actually works for the most part. South Korea’s high suicide rates are a problem, but a relatively small one compared to everything else about SK which actually goes well
South Korea is easily the most capitalist country on the planet, the corporations are family owned and passed down through generations. There is no “working your way up”. You are a corporate slave forever. Corporations own and control everything. Workers rights are non-existent and suicide rates are extreme.
Many other nations are controlled by corporations but none to quite the overwhelming extent as South Korea.
How many out of 10 would you rate SK's democratic level?
Were you one of the ones who watched the Samsung and south Korea thing by Wendover?
Reportedly a good way to lower suicide rates is just to put some fences on a bridge. A surprising number of people will not find an alternative if their first option isn't available.
It doesn't stop everyone but just making or harder does in fact stop some people from going through with it. Like they get there and are all prepared to jump and then there's a fence in the way, it's not easy to climb, and now the moment has kind of passed, guess I'll just carry on for now.
If someone really wants to kill themselves they will. But just throwing a speed bump in their path will buy a lot more time for them to get better than you might think.
I think the notion is suicide is planned. Which it can be. But I'm sure there's a lot of opportunitistic ones where they get a text at the wrong time at the wrong place and just say 'fuck it' and jump
>Reportedly a good way to lower suicide rates is just to put some fences on a bridge.
No, a good way to lower suicide is to make suicide attempts punishable and illegal and criminalize the act. It works in countries where it is illegal or religious.
As someone who has survived a suicide attempt, this would have just thrown salt in the wound and ruined my life further. Shame on you.
I'm glad you're still here with us.
I was taught in a class to not say "commit suicide" as committing is similar to committing a sin or crime and it's important not to stigmatize the topic. They said it's important to ask, "are you planning on ending your life?" or something similar. The point is to make it normal to discuss it so help can be given.
I am talking about countries that criminalized suicide like muslim countries or any other religious countries. I do not meant to hurt people. Are you saying that what I mentioned in the above comments is not true. I don't support these laws too.
As somebody who lives in a country where suicide is illegal, lmao no it does not help. Moron.
Maybe it doesn't help people try to kill themselves but it definitely helps to lower the suicide rate in the country.
The company working me to despair putting up afirmations would not make me feel less suicidal tbh. Alleviating my alienation from society by giving me more free time would, especially considering how tough hours are in SK. This is just the cheapest way to try and deter people, feels very shoddy and half-assed. Unsuprising but still stunning in its inhumanity.
Well thats Chaebols for you
Honestly, it would make me more suicidal. Hollow, soppy messages and photos put there by a corporation as some publicity stunt is even more depressing to me. People need genuine mental health support and community.
Korea is Samsung's private property
Did you go down a rabbit hole after watching the Wendover Productions video?
If this were america they would just increase policy premiums.
In America, life insurance rarely pays out on a suicide.
https://www.investopedia.com/does-life-insurance-cover-suicide-5105027
Wow, a corp doing something worthwhile?
​
Edit: shame it didn't work.
I think you missed the subtext, as cynical as it may seem. They weren't so worried about people killing themselves as much as people claiming life insurance
LOL fair point.
How close is the closes Samsung related industry?
Oh yeah. Seoul.
>Samsung
So... the government??
Samsung kinda is the in facto govern of South Korea so...
Don't tell me what to do, samsung
Seems cheaper than some specialty fencing on the bridge.
They could buy safety nets.
Ah yes, the Foxconn Solution™
“Hey don’t kill yourself, imagine all the great pictures you could take with your samsung galaxy s22”
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Obligatory post: if you are in the US, you can call 988 to reach mental health services (with the caveat that they are allowed to get law enforcement involved)
If you're dealing with suicidal thoughts in general and need someone to talk to, PM me, I know what it's like and am happy to lend an ear
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There are many exceptions to patient/client confidentiality laws. Illegal activity, like drug use, can be disclosed. This keeps many people away from therapy and could cause some people reaching out for help to end up in jail or forced rehabilitation. Add in that law enforcement officers are rarely (and certainly not fully) trained to deal with mental health situations...until the laws in the US are overhauled people in a bad situation using this number could find themselves in an even worse situation.
You are correct, thus the caveat
>with the caveat that they are allowed to get law enforcement involved)
Ie they will arrest you and then charge you for the privilege
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r/boringdystopia
just tax suicide lol
Good
The Koreans have a saying that you can't avoid taxes, death and Samsung in life.
r/ABoringDystopia
I've been there. It's depressing as hell.
It's basically a long list of "well if you die now think of all the great stuff you'll miss out on!"
Then it goes on to list banal shit like the smell of coffee or holding hands or rainbows or whatever.
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If it works, who cares.
send this to Warren Buffet
Horrible idea. Making it harder for people to do it, is what makes people not act upon it.
Well it would have been awkward if it was Nike's
Cause they were done with paying out
TIL, Samsung sells life insurance
Wendover productions put out a very good video of samsungs influence within the south Korean economy. As always with the internet take things with a grain of salt, but it appears that Samsung basically runs the south Korean economy for better or worse and is part of a multitude of industries beyond just cellphones and tech (tvs, speakers etc). Working for the company is so prestigious in current society's eyes that there are standardized tests administered to students just for a chance to interview. LG, Hyundai etc are considered second class conglomerates and any other company is considered bottom tier.
As someone who is from an Asian background, in many ways I believe this to be true to some level. The country I'm from holds working for certain companies with a prestige and especially if someone works in a specific industry depending on thr city or state their from. For example, the asian state my dad is from holds jewelers and business man in incredibly high regard that if they were able to "make it" in India it is assumed they were wildly successful and incredibly rich.
Obviously doctors are held in high esteem and ironically engineers are considered second class intelligence. The city my mom is from holds government is extremely high regard because of the prep and interview intensity (ironic because of corruption). My grandfather used to work in the government and he was apparently extremely highly acclaimed for the work he did (there is a library allegedly and on my dad's side they named a river after my grandpa in the local village).
So in south Korea, it's very interesting to see these things and how it overlaps in my culture and the parallels. Samsung is the definition of a monopoly controlling governments, not the other way around
Life insurance, uh, finds a way
Underwriters, “we’re taking a killing [pun intended] on paying out policies of our insured! let’s find a way to stem the outflow of cash.”
r/aboringdystopia
People underestimate how much life insurers don’t want you to die
Just put some signage stating that suicide there is for wealthy and pretty people only. No poor uggos allowed.
Maybe threaten a fine even. I'd say the equivalent of 20-30 USD.
:I wonder if there is a useful, or functional, distinction between Samsung and the South Korean government.
Link to relevant post with relevantness:
Maybe they should fix the working conditions at Samsung.
Sign: Do a flip! If you cannot go home.
Must be some MASSIVE AIR FANS for all those suicides to occur, I guess the bridge travelers get sleepy and those big fans cause the suicides. s/
Capitalism actually working?? Kinda??
Korea was a vassal slave state of Japan for decades. They tried to completely exterminate Korean culture, language, and even names. Koreans raised up and overthrew their occupiers. They formed citizen councils to establish a democracy in their country. The Soviets respected their councils and kept them. The Americans said absolutely not, destroyed them, and placed them under a racist, fascist military dictatorship run by the USA.
Suicide being popular in the south is hardly surprising.
Lolumo t1_iww15qz wrote
Samsung and the South Korean government are the same thing, in some ways