What are some legislative and day-to-day differences between VT, and MA?

Submitted by spitsparadise t3_117vsji in vermont

Hello, Flatlander here. My partner and I are excited to move to VT and start the next chapter of our lives together next month. I am a public school teacher and my partner is a social worker. We got extremely lucky and found a rental apartment. We have lived throughout MA our whole lives and are looking forward to continuing our lives in a different part of New England. r/newtovermont has been a good resource, but I was wondering if anyone in the bigger sub had some insight on some day-to-day differences between VT and MA. Of course VT is quieter, gets more snow etc. I was wondering if there were any differences that I should look out for such as traffic laws, everyday regulations, or shopping differences. I've also read a little about the differences in gardening / growing outdoor cannabis. I've loved lurking on this sub for a long time and I am excited to be a part of this wonderful state. I hope that my partner and I can contribute to our community at the public-sector level like my Great-Grandfather and Grandfather did in Springfield VT many, many years ago.

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rockstang t1_j9e4hv7 wrote

You can pass on a double yellow legally. You can't pass if there are no passing signs.

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Pornhubplumber t1_j9eskh7 wrote

THE LEFT LANE IS ONLY FOR PASSING. Thank you.

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meinblown t1_j9ff4ic wrote

Except on I89 through Burlington where it it posted specifically for through traffic to keep left.

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philly1750 t1_j9lb7xm wrote

It is? Doesn't that just lead to everyone passing on the right

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meinblown t1_j9lhcj3 wrote

It is to allow all of the people access to the on and off ramps that were designed back when the highway was like 45 through Burlington when they first built it.

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philly1750 t1_j9mt9pz wrote

I mean there's only like 3 on-ramps through Burlington so how bad can they be

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9f1odr wrote

I am very big on this throughout the US. Haha don't have to worry about me going slow in the left lane on 91! Glad to know this sticks in VT too.

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WhatTheCluck802 t1_j9gvhmd wrote

Adding this: USE YOUR EFFING BLINKERS AND CRUISE CONTROL AND FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE BE COURTEOUS. Even with Vermont plates you’ll stick out as a Masshole if you do not do these things.

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IC_Uvine t1_ja1p2bw wrote

Hey now, in mass, we do politely shout at people "use ya blinkah" 😂

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9eq1q3 wrote

When you get here, please enjoy vt for what it is, dont try to make it more like where you're from.

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canthaveme t1_j9ev4sk wrote

This is so underrated. I had some woman from NJ get all pissed because she lived next to a farm and they spread manure on the field and she called the cops and got laughed at and was super pissy about all sorts of stuff with the farm SHE DECIDED TO MOVE NEXT TO *Spelling

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9ew9p5 wrote

Happens all the time. We have a whole group of folks out of state that moved to the most remote part of our town. So remote it is on an unmaintained, previously a snowmobile trail in the winter, class 4 road.

The owners started plowing it, when the town refused, which is their right. now they want the town to maintain the road year round for them. Its crazy. You chose to buy a house on an unmaintained road, what did you expect?

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BothCourage9285 t1_j9eyp4y wrote

Agree altho this varies by town. Some towns will maintain to the last full time residence on a class 4 and some don't. It depends on how the road maintenance is addressed in the town plan or zoning regs.

Neighbor calls the state police repeatedly on my grandfathers farm for manure spreading. Not even liquid, OG bedded pack type stuff. Now he saves it all for the spring/summer/fall holiday weekends

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9f0loy wrote

Yeah our class 4s are clearly posted as pass at your own risk dec - may, unmaintained. We dont have the staff or funds to keep them all perfect.

Love granpas spite. Serves them right trying to step on an old timers source of income.

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RZRPRINCESS t1_j9f4d8x wrote

Yeah lol don't piss off the farmers! Just get used to the smell :)

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resistreclaim t1_j9g5opr wrote

I mean, they're paying taxes right?

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9gbi4c wrote

Im assuming they are, yes. Much lower taxes due to being off grid. They purchased their property knowing very well it was unmaintained during winter months, and would be kept passable but not perfect during summer months.

Trying to change things after the fact is poor foresight, and not the towns problem.

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Hell_Camino t1_j9f0fih wrote

Same with the people who bought land next to the disc golf course in the public park in Waterbury. They built big houses, moved in, and were appalled that people were using the disc golf course they’d built next to. So, they’ve been working to get the course shut down. Such assholes.

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bonanzapineapple t1_j9hz5di wrote

Ridiculous! Especially because the disc golf isn't harming them! I would be more sympathic if it was a cold fired powered plant or motorcycles at 2am but disc golf is so unintrusive AFAIK

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9f3ohq wrote

Absolutely! We are looking forward to getting away from where we live, only thing we're bringing with us is probably how fast we talk (I feel like people from MA always try to get their sentence out as fast as possible), but even that will probably go away in time haha.

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Corey307 t1_j9fjzgh wrote

So some folks from Massachusetts bought a house in my tiny little neighborhood last year. They’ve gone out of their way to not be friendly, i’ve waived them several times and they refuse to reciprocate. They have a terrible habit of slow rolling through the neighborhood and just staring at people instead of rolling down the window and introducing themselves. No big deal right? Well last summer I was on my riding mower open carrying A pistol as it is legal and my right since this is my land. They stopped their car in front of my house and both were gesturing at me and of course I didn’t appreciate that. I hear they’ve called the cops a few times on neighbors that were target shooting legally on their property.

So don’t be like that, you don’t have to be best friends with your neighbors but going out of your way to not even wave hello is some bullshit. Don’t move to a rural area and freak out because you hear occasional gunshots or because you smell cow shit because there’s a tractor in the road. Don’t freak out because you bought some land, chose not to post it and people are hiking, fishing or hunting on it because that’s perfectly legal unless you post it per state regulations.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9fmm6n wrote

This is great advice thank you! One of the things I look forward to in VT is actually people being more friendly. Whenever I hike in VT people will say hi and strike up a small conversation. Even when I go on my "highkes" people will notice my eyes are big and laugh along and briefly share a funny story and have a short chat. I dig that! Whenever I hike in MA (like where I currently live 15 minutes from Boston), people don't even look me in the eye and it really bugs me. People are cold. I find it that although VT is a colder state, people seem warmer.

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rockstang t1_j9fzbt5 wrote

I remember seeing a guy who would do this. Everytime, it was no shirt, cutoff jeans and a Glock against his sweaty back. This was in PA. I was always curious about this. I'm not being critical, it is totally your right, but why? Is it a protection thing, advertising you're a gun owning house, or maybe just a preference to carry all the time? None of the above? Thanx and have a good day!

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Corey307 t1_j9g05a0 wrote

To start with it’s legal and it’s my land so that’s enough explanation but you seem cool. we got threats at work during the pandemic and a few people I used to know went full QAnon insane the last few years. Had one threatening to come visit me if you feel me. One of my neighbors also had a vicious pitbull they refused to leash that kept coming on my property, I’m carrying for real reason it’s not just hypotheticals. It’s extremely rare that I open carry because I don’t want to scare people and I’m not doing it to look tough or pretend I’m a cop but it was hot and it’s difficult to conceal a full size pistol under a sleeveless tank top.

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rockstang t1_j9gljg7 wrote

Gotcha. Sounds totally reasonable. If the new neighbors had taken the time to introduce themselves they'd probably have learned the same stuff. Too bad, maybe they'll come around with time. Thanx for the info!

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Corey307 t1_j9hb5jh wrote

Feels like it’s too late for that, I’ve heard they’ve called the cops on a few neighbors over them doing legal stuff but who knows.

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Necessary-Bee-8691 t1_j9fdiwc wrote

Hello fellow flatlander, and welcome to Vermont. There are quite a few of us transplants here! As others have said, don't be a dick. Listen, and be willing to learn from your neighbors. Slow the fuck down, and that also pertains to talking, driving, being patient at stores and restaurants, etc. Folks around here like to talk to each other, and sometimes it's slow, but if you choose to slow down and listen... it's meaningful.

If you want to get involved in your community, find out what's really needed, and help out, but hold back on trying to change anything or complain about stuff, you need to spend some time learning first.

Where are you settling?

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9feuuh wrote

Thanks! We're stoked to be a part of it all. Part of the reason we want to move to VT is we feel we will fit in better there as opposed to here in MA (we have friends already settled in VT and my great-grandfather / grandfather were from there so I have been up a good amount). We are laid back and appreciate a more toned down style of life. Very "Joe Pera-core" type folks (even though we're in our late/mid twenties). Every time I go hiking in VT I've noticed people actually will talk to us. We currently live in Middlesex county MA and no one even looks you in the eye on the trails! We're moving to Brattleboro. I have a job lined up in Springfield and my partner is currently applying for social work jobs. We are excited to make some meaningful connections with folks around us.

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Necessary-Bee-8691 t1_j9fk4ug wrote

Sounds like you'll be fine. My wife and I are very similar, relocated from CT, and loving VT. It pains us to go back there, all the traffic, and the people, and nobody there is very happy. I'm not saying VT is perfect, but people seem much happier here. We've made more "real" friends here in the last year than we ever had in CT.

DM me about the type of work your partner is looking for, I may have a good lead for them.

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9gyydo wrote

I was born in mass, ive been in vt for 15 years now...it'll slow down a bit. Everything is a little slower up here!

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9gzqbu wrote

We definitely see ourselves living a "slower" life. We're very laid back and value community. Living in MetroWest Boston has been pretty draining haha.

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resistreclaim t1_j9g5kkb wrote

In some ways, this sentiment is fine. Get used to manure. Don't drive like an arse. But this saying gets used in really shit ways to push against socio-political progress as well.

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9gc6q5 wrote

Well like many phrases, context is key. My point is not to try to force the people who grew up here, to live to your standards. Vermont, or at least my corner of it, is very live and let live.

To be clear, im a masshole myself. Ive been here 15 years, and get along with everyone in my town, regardless of if i agree with everything they do/say. Changing someones opinion is very hard, changing a vermonters opinion is even harder. However, it turns out if you get past politics, and treat eachother like humans, most of us have a lot more in common than not.

If you move somewhere, and dont like the way the locals do things, lead by example. Do YOUR best, and maybe they'll follow. If not i bet they'll still come pull your car out when you get stuck.

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hunny_bun_24 t1_j9e28fw wrote

Idk man. Just drink some hot cider and make snowmen when possible

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kidcommon t1_j9edpiv wrote

Bring your own bags to the grocery store!

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mountainofclay t1_j9hpe7v wrote

And be sure to bring your shopping cart back to the place it belongs. God that irks me when people are too lazy to do that.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9i6fid wrote

That's my favorite part of grocery shopping. Last thing I do before I get in my car and drive home.

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elpvtam t1_j9ewa7f wrote

Gun laws are more relaxed here and people are okay with it. You might be surprised at who has em. I think people tend to be on a slightly earlier schedule here day to day. Also stuff closes early gl if you want to eat after 8:30

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9f1w01 wrote

That is very interesting! From my understanding, MA is a very hard state to legally get a gun in. I am now allowed to have one because I have my medical cannabis card. I wonder if that hold will carry over when I become a VT resident?

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Corey307 t1_j9fjamk wrote

Cannabis use makes you a federally prohibited person and you have to lie/commit a felony on your 4473 background check to purchase a firearm. I think the federal prohibition of cannabis is bullshit but state law does not circumvent federal law regarding firearms. Not saying you’ll get caught and not telling you what to do but all firearms transactions in Vermont have to go through an FFL including private party sales, since 2018 and you can no longer just buy a gun from a private person without a background check. That said tons of gun owners smoke pot, just wanted you to be able to make an educated choice. The MMJ card complicates things because it documents your marijuana use.

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JodaUSA t1_j9g23yi wrote

Commit that felony.

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Corey307 t1_j9g958a wrote

Do as you choose, I’m not passing judgement. Most gun owners know very little to nothing about gun laws and I’d rather than make an adult decision instead of blundering into a felony.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9flvm1 wrote

This is very insightful and helpful, thank you! Perhaps maybe once cannabis is legalized federally (it's a shame it isn't), it'll become easier. It's not a priority for me, but a long term goal of mine would be to live in a more rual area (currently moving towards downtown Brattleboro), and I would like to have some sort of firearm to defend my (theoretical) livestock from any predators. But again, that's for another day. Thank you for letting me know a little more about how it works in VT!

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suzi-r t1_j9gm1vo wrote

Yeah, wait till retirement to get into weed. Teaching demands a clear head, and given today’s ways of crowding (yes, even here unless you stay quite rural, and even then w weather changes) you’ll do best to NOT indulge in weed except during stable weather on vacation (experience talking here). More: cultural diffs betw VT & MA: it’s NOT all-white here. Ppl dress more for weather, so in winter dress we (rurals) look alike. Of greater importance: you need to know that many older “white” families have Native blood (Abenaki) they may or may not be able to document. For the families who are aware of their lineage, this matters hugely but is not spoken about. But (as in MA, esp SE) there’s a resurgence of Native culture. Be aware, and listen. (Wish I’d known this before starting my teaching career decades ago.) Other cultural matters: Religion is your own personal matter. There are a number of active congregations, but there’s also in many a dislike of proselytization. Freedom from religion is as important to many here as freedom to practice it. For my rural Central VT area, I disagree w Corey, as gun owners are very savvy about laws, the old-time hunters take critters for food (many are Native), and they can be trusted as guns are tools. Southern VT…there may be some differences. Ask around. Another thing, esp in smaller towns & villages: community is huge. The longer you live here, the more you’re aware of this . Most VTers aren’t wealthy, so knowing others is super-important, and helping is even more so. Local business matters a lot, and everyone counts. When you can, join a group—community service, arts, school-related, or a public office. Good places to get to know others in more rural areas: village stores, transfer stations, libraries, local co-ops, town halls, town garages & fire departments. Some towns have local newspapers and/or listservs. Gotta say this: COVID-19 is still here. Yes, it’s hitting unpredictably, even masked/vaxxed ppl (those have milder cases and with fast antiviral help can recover at home usually). Avoid close contact w non-fam ppl, esp indoors. Might be good to wait until late spring summer to hold yr wild parties, and even then, hold them outdoors. The virus is still with us. Where I am now is how I remember MA used to be. As a long-ago MA transplant (gave up dope to have teaching career & family), I’ll say Welcome, and I hope you bring as much good as you get and stay forever. If you are good, we need ye. Stay well & find happiness.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9i66su wrote

Thanks for sharing your experience and what you've picked up on along the way! Peace and happy cake day.

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suzi-r t1_j9i8y20 wrote

How kind you are—thank you!

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frisbeegopher t1_j9eg6wm wrote

I lived in Massachusetts previously and moved to VT as a young adult. The biggest differences (at least when we moved nearly 15 years ago)

The authority of town cops doesn’t stop at their town line. An officer has authority state wide regardless of what town they work for.

Towns (especially small towns) still hold town meeting and utilize floor votes to make pretty big decisions. Town meeting day is the first Tuesday in March.

Not everything you need to know will necessarily be available online. Calling someone is often the only way to get information.

(Some) people will attempt to devalue your opinion because you’re not “from here”. This usually occurs when you’re right and they can’t otherwise back up their shitty stance on something. Try not to take it personally.

The communities (especially more rural) are close knit. Everyone knows everyone and knows their business. This is both a blessing and a curse.

Most folks are genuinely kind. We take care of each other here - even the folks who don’t have much are willing to show up for someone else who needs help.

We couldn’t be happier living here, I hope you like it too.

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thisoneisnotasbad t1_j9enhff wrote

> Some) people will attempt to devalue your opinion because you’re not “from here”. This usually occurs when you’re right and they can’t otherwise back up their shitty stance on something. Try not to take it personally.

This is a seriously flatlander take. This guy doesn’t know shit.

/s ?

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happyonthehill802 t1_j9epwhy wrote

Sounds like someone tried to jersey vermont, and the community didnt like it.

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HappilyhiketheHump t1_j9ewr4a wrote

Wow. I read this as “someone tried to mount a Jersey” and choked on my oatmeal.

It’s a blurry morning.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9f2adl wrote

I loved going to town meeting growing up in MA! I noticed that people in VT look out for each other. When we were visiting a couple of years ago my partner got hit by a car that ran a red light as we were in a crosswalk, we ended up having to spend over a week in the hospital and the nice local folks offered me a bed and food and all that. My partner and I are a lot more "laid back" and it really struck a nice chord with us that people offered us help like that. Looking forward to the community feel.

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RZRPRINCESS t1_j9f50a3 wrote

My dad just got in a bad accident and had to be flown in to Mass General, as a Vermonter we were so scared everyone was going to be rude to us but I have to say everyone we have met in Boston has gone above and beyond with kindness. So I guess it goes full circle! I'm glad we are all able to have humanity and take care of each other when it's most needed! :)

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accepteverything t1_j9eu5sm wrote

It's easy to volunteer in your community. Join the fire dept., or run for selectboard, or join the conservation commission, make yourself useful. If you live in a small town this is the best way to make friends and fit in. Most places are begging for participation.

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21stCenturyJanes t1_j9f1fcb wrote

I moved here from Mass, it's not hard to adapt. People are less into the car you drive or how big your house is. Instead of being a badge of honor, people are low key about money. Don't expect everyone to spend the weekend at the mall or Home Depot shopping, there's much less reverence for commercialism and capitalism as a lifestyle. There are also a lot less choices in shopping and the grocery stores pretty much suck. The differences in traffic laws & regulations are minor. Everyone can go to Town Meeting, you don't have to be a member like in Mass. It's super easy to get involved in town politics and the people that are involved run a wide spectrum.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9f2iqj wrote

From a teacher and a social worker, money clearly isn't our main goal haha so I'm very glad that this sentiment seems to carry up in VT! I had town meeting in the town where I grew up in MA and I loved it. I look forward to that too!

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pachucatruth t1_j9epqth wrote

There’s no excise tax on vehicles in VT

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BobbyLee_vT t1_j9fpfwe wrote

I moved from VT to MA (sadge) and fuck excise tax.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9f3qmf wrote

This is very interesting! Thank you. I was actually thinking about getting a new car in 1-2 years so this is actually great to know thank you.

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vermont4runner t1_j9flc47 wrote

Just 6% sales tax at purchase or time of registration. That’s it one and done. Afterwards it’s a flat fee to renew registration and it’s cheap.

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do_it-to_it t1_j9exy1k wrote

Don’t call the furnace guy in February!

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Fun-Succotash6777 t1_j9fketw wrote

Along these lines.... figure out any sort of service person you might need in your life and get to know them/get in their books *before* you need them. If you're buying a place, schedule a plumber/electrician/handyman/landscaper/plow person well in advance to do some small job for you so that they can see you pay on time and then you become a client they'll be willing to see in an emergency. If you're looking for an emergency tradesperson and haven't had someone out to the place before, it can be extremely difficult to find someone to come (or even call you back) in a timely fashion.

Same thing for a primary care doctor/therapist/dentist/etc. Get on their books for as soon as you can so that you get in their system.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9fo6ip wrote

This is very good advice thank you! I was actually planning on looking into switching health insurance soon. We both are on state health insurance (masshealth). I haven't heard much about state health insurance in VT but from what I have heard is it's better than some other state's options.

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vtdadbod007 t1_j9htm7h wrote

Can’t second this enough. Stuff isn’t available on call like it is in MA, and this only gets generally more applicable the more rural part of the state you’re in. Get your maintenance scheduled as far ahead as humanly possible and really try to develop as much handyman skills as you can - it’s really worth being able to fix that leak yourself and save a huge headache. Also, try making it a fun challenge, I try to make mine seem like a puzzle and then my engineering brain gets happy and takes off lol.

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bonanzapineapple t1_j9hxr37 wrote

Insurance is better but medical services are very sparse/inadequate. It might be cheaper than other states but the wait time might be awhile/you might have trouble finding someone accepting new patients (especially for mental health providers)

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soscru t1_j9ev05c wrote

Drive slower and don’t bully people on the road like most people from MA! Lol

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vermont4runner t1_j9fmdkn wrote

Change your plates ASAP.

Prepare to be called a masshole if you’re being a dick.

Leave your state politics behind, they don’t apply here and you’ll really rub people the wrong way.

VT is a constitutional carry state, you’ll see a lot of guns and many many people own them. It’s a contributing factor to the safety and low crime here.

Don’t try and make VT MASS. It is a microcosm all of its own and those here generally like it that way.

As someone who’s from NH, has tons of family in MASS, and now lives in VT for 6 years raising a young family, you will be welcomed with opened arms by most if you listen to the above.

Welcome, it’s nice here.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9fogix wrote

Thanks, stoked to be a part of it all. Changing plates and state health insurance is on the top of the list! We are definitely leaving Mass, not bringing it with us haha. I like saying hi to people I pass by on hikes. People here is mass don't even look us in the eye it's very annoying.

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Easy_Alternative4435 t1_j9gp5uc wrote

The double yellow line is a suggestion here. Pass as you see fit.

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casewood123 t1_j9gztn6 wrote

People still have a hard time believing that is the law.

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Odd-Philosopher5926 t1_j9gxnaw wrote

Just treat people well. Being a dick here means that everyone will quickly find out and nobody will do anything for you. My brother is a carpenter. He had a lady that moved here from hell (New Jersey). She was a raging bitch and he soon told her no thanks after she started treating him very poorly. She couldn’t find ANYONE after since he works with and contracts with all the other tradesman in the area. She was ridiculous. I cut meat and we had a guy block off a popular atv trail in my rural town. He decided to become a gentleman farmer and wanted someone to butcher his pigs. Turns out my son and his friends used to ride that trail. So guess who still is feeding those piggies in the dead of winter.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9gzgcd wrote

Definitely plays into that small town / community way of life! Good on you for sticking up for you and your sons.

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BothCourage9285 t1_j9exq1l wrote

Don't sit in the left land on the highway if you're doing 50mph.

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jsudarskyvt t1_j9f93ch wrote

MA drivers are generally worse than VT drivers. Although we have our share of bad drivers here. In VT the commute is more like a scenic drive. In MA your BP goes up every time you get behind the wheel.

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glamour-and-pickle t1_j9fais8 wrote

In VT my BP goes up every time I get behind the wheel because of the people who think it's a scenic drive. You all might be on vacation, retired, or self-employed. Good for you. Enjoy your drive, but please get out of the way. I'm not that fortunate. I have to get to work, or else I get fired.

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spitsparadise OP t1_j9fdspv wrote

I grew up in a very touristy part of MA, so this hits home for me. The slow drivers (especially those with out of state plates, mostly CT though) drove me mad. I have done the drive a few times already that will be my commute (~40 or so minutes on 91) and I am really looking forward to the lack of BP increase opposed to my 45 minute commute on Route 2 in MA. If you know, you know.

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jsudarskyvt t1_j9ff4tp wrote

Mine goes up because of idiots that don't slow down in snow/ice, people who "left" you, people that wait at a green light w/o entering the intersection, and red light runners. Getting "lefted" is way less common than it was a few years ago, it's when the car facing you in an intersection and is first in line guns it across the intersection on green, cutting you off. Common at certain intersections. And the green light waiters make it inevitable that you sit for multiple light cycles at an intersection.

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philly1750 t1_j9lc8mv wrote

I don't go to Vermont often so when I'm there I like to check out the scenery. But I won't hold up the left lane either

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d-cent t1_j9gaeoi wrote

Yeah, I'm with Glamour on this. VT has an equal amount of bad drivers. They are just bad for a different reason here.

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mountainofclay t1_j9hpmhx wrote

Compost your food garbage. Either do it on site or pay someone to take it but compostibles do not go in the landfill.

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philly1750 t1_j9lbp9b wrote

Don't you dare support Trump or else you'll get an army of butthurt liberal snowflakes coming after you

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