Vermont Native

Submitted by brymandog t3_yzgahf in vermont

Born in Morrisville,VT 1989. The housing crisis in Vermont is out of control. My whole life I have seen my friends and family leave Vermont because it is not what use to be. The amount of rich people/terrible human beings moving here and absolutely ruining the place I feel as my home.

The community’s that are being built here are unfriendly and unneighborly. Everyday day someone who doesn’t have a Vermont consciousness is moving here and taking advantage of Vermonters kindness and friendliness.

I think people are moving here and excited to see how much they can get away with here because it’s a small state. They raise the cost of living here as an experiment to test the locals who just want a place to live have, a job, and try to be able to save some money.

It’s saddening to report to Reddit that Vermonts consciousness right now is damaged.

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ARealVermontar t1_iwzsomo wrote

You paint a very bleak picture. I think there's some truth in there but most parts don't seem accurate to me (e.g. why would newcomers want to raise the cost of living "as an experiment to test the locals"? Makes no sense. All new communities being built are unneighborly? Really?)

Have you ever been screened for depression?

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brymandog OP t1_ix095b2 wrote

My neighbors who just moved in Texas, Tennessee, and Pennsylvania and 1 from Colorado. Saw the person from Texas and I said, “good morning beautiful day” he looked at me as if it was an insult, didn’t say a word and walked into his apt like I didn’t exist. It doesn’t cost anything to be nice. It took more effort to ignore me …

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ARealVermontar t1_ix0q7xs wrote

That sounds like a single unsatisfying interaction, not the harbinger of doom for a state's consciousness. Maybe the guy is socially anxious or autistic or misheard you or is just awkward. Vermont will survive his presence here.

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brymandog OP t1_ix0tcbv wrote

Hopefully this moment will live rent free in your mind the next time you see Karen yelling at server, waiting in line in traffic to go snowboarding/skiing or the newest development being built in an area you once enjoyed!

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ARealVermontar t1_ix0wfjx wrote

Thanks for offering me the kind of neighborly, Vermonty well-wishes you're trying to preserve. Appreciate it!

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Trajikbpm t1_ix0fxlc wrote

I think some people are scared of Vermonters with all the hate and slander out of staters get. Of course a lot of it is justified...but the good people coming here that could benefit all of us are on edge. I mean the number one tip moving here is switch your plate and blend in as fast as possible. I know some people who are terrified to be asked where they came from.

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FyuckerFjord t1_ix1304l wrote

I'm not scared of the type of native Vermonters who see me as an invasive species but I am expecting a confrontation at all times and operate at threat level midnight. That changes how I deal with people right off the bat and I find myself reverting to my gruffer self by default and I don't like it. I rather enjoyed the laid back middle-aged dude I turned into rather than the bar-fighting rapscallion I once was.

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brothermuffin t1_iwzqcw3 wrote

Little too much paranoia and projection. Go outside and actually talk to “those people”.

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FunkyOldMayo t1_iwzswyn wrote

Fellow VT native here, but a little older.

I have a good number of friends that moved here and they’re all great people who add a lot to our community; Have you tried talking to some of these “terrible people”?

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IndefinableMustache t1_iwzuzhi wrote

It’s easier to glare at them and make assumptions as I drive by in my 2005 Dodge Ram with “Native” and “802” stickers

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brymandog OP t1_iwzv1dx wrote

This post was a shotgun shell of thoughts this morning after exchanges with my property management and landlord in Waterbury. I’ve lived in my apartment since 2017. My rent was $1450 a month. The building has been sold 3 times in the past 4 years. They now want me to sign a lease for $2000 a month with nothing included. The property management company will not give me the number to the landlord to speak with them directly to inform them I will move out, but I can’t find a place to live by December 1st. I asked to pay the 2000 a month until I find a place to live. They said they won’t work with me unless I sign up for a year. I found out that husband was completely was willing to give us some time to move out, but the wife was not. They don’t live on Vermont they are from Massachusetts. This scenario is what this post derived from

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IndefinableMustache t1_iwzw0gm wrote

I’m sorry you are experiencing this, it’s not fair. Have you tried contacting any of your representatives or local housing authority to see if that could be of assistance? I also don’t think this is a uniquely VT problem, I’ve heard similar stories from all over the US.

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somedudevt t1_iwzz73q wrote

Stop paying rent, refuse to leave. It’s almost impossible to evict in the winter in Vermont (my mother rented our childhood home when we moved when we were younger and the tenants didn’t pay, it took 10 months and multiple court visits to get them out, and in the end they never paid the back rent)

If the ruling class wants compliance, it should be met with the opposite.

As a fellow Copley 1980’s baby, I agree with your general outlook. While I don’t know that we want the opposite end of the spectrum (MAGA Garbage) we also need to have our politicians in Montpelier taking action against these issues. We can’t have the state catering to the wealthy. Air BnB and short term rentals should be outlawed, landlords should be limited on the number of units they have, and landlords who don’t act in the interest of the states residents (looking at the Boves) should have their properties taken under eminent domain and repurposed to public housing (not income based, but rent controlled)

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PizzaxBeach t1_iwzxnlq wrote

Offer to sign a month to month lease. Or don’t and stay until you find something and don’t pay anything. By the time they work through the paperwork and eviction process it could be months. Especially in the wintertime. You will have found a place to stay and be out. They’re welcome to sue you but since you don’t own property it probably won’t be worth it for them. Sorry about your situation, good luck!

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WhatTheCluck802 t1_ix2k556 wrote

Contact Vermont Legal Aid to see what protections you might have against their predatory behavior potentially making you homeless.

And anonymously mail them a glitter bomb. 💥

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kickerconspiracy t1_iwzzlfp wrote

Fwiw one of the only "big" apartment rental/commercial properties in Hartland just got sold and the new owner is doubling the rent immediately without any improvements. We're trying to get a tenants union together but afraid it's too late.

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Ok-Glass7272 t1_ix03fhe wrote

You have my condolences. This is happening everywhere. In one day I had a friend of mine say her friend that was living in a condo-ed building (four story mostly 2 bedroom units) and that her lease was coming up. Investors have been buying condos for rental income all over this area. My friend's friend said that her unit just sold and the new owner was doubling the rent. That same day a realtor friend of mine stopped in, elated, as she had recently sold several properties, including the same unit. My friend's friend, the renter, said she will probably have to stay as there are waiting lists on every rental property in our community. On top of that - I live in a very vibrant town on the NH seacoast but am originally from VT - our restaurants and retail shops, which are popular, can't find workers. Why? Because they can't afford to live anywhere near our town. This situation, like yours, is not sustainable.

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pro_conser333 t1_ix01hnu wrote

I’m originally from Massachusetts and landlords there are extremely greedy. I lived in the same apartment for almost 10 years and paid $900 a month for a 2 bedroom. He sold the building 6 months before we moved to Vermont. The new landlord immediately raised the rent to $1,200 and said in 3 months it would be going up to $1,500. We moved before the second rent hike. My mom passed away from cancer 1 year ago. She had state housing and paid $200 for the remainder of her rent per month. She lived there for 15 years. After she passed away I contacted her landlord and his exact words were, “I’m sorry for your loss, could you send me her portion of the rent.” Massachusetts landlords have no heart. I’m sorry you are dealing with this. So many Vermont residents are dealing with people that are not in love with Vermont and the ideas we hold dearly.

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Unique-Public-8594 t1_ix37b1i wrote

Here’s your fix:

Focus on a plan, not hate. Get off of the rental train.

  1. Find a friend or relative who would want to help you and willing to let you move in rent-free for one year if it would be life changing for you.

  2. During that year save every penny you can. No alcohol. No cigarettes. No entertainment. 100% frugal. Follow frugal tips on Facebook and reddit. Take on extra jobs. Build that bank account. Sacrifice. Do some chores every day to show your gratitude.

  3. During that year check the real estate market daily and learn about the first-time home buyer programs that do zero down and/or 0% interest.

  4. Buy a house. Not one with foundation, roof, or septic problems. Even if all you can afford is a rundown shitty shack. Bonus if the lot is big enough so you can add onto it over time. Take in room mates if you need to to make ends meet.

  5. Gradually fix it up. One project at a time. As a kindness to your neighbors, start with the exterior and yard, curb appeal.

It works. I’ve seen it done.

Or move to Mississippi, Alabama, or Arkansas. The most affordable states. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2022/02/09/most-and-least-expensive-states-to-live-in-2022/

Why pay $2,000/mo to rent when there are homes for sale with less than $500/mo costs?

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FyuckerFjord t1_ix0j8qo wrote

I moved here not to change things, but to participate in the local economy and be left alone. Still, when I found my elderly neighbor wandering around near my house, I was friendly and asked if he needed help with anything.

He proceeded to tell me how much he hated "the bitch" that lived here before and how she rented to "high-flying beaners" and when I smiled and pointed out my wife is Mexican he said, "Not her, she's a good one."

Also had my truck keyed for having out of state plates. Encountered some of the most entitled people I've ever met and run into Vermont exceptionalism more often than fairly priced maple syrup.

In fact, Raleigh, NC felt a million times friendlier than Vermont, so maybe your view of Vermonters is askew.

So Vermont may not be the birthplace of kum-bah-ya you feel it is. It's also more expensive than where many of us come from, so you're welcome for my family's willingness to pay higher taxes to help state programs that benefit all Vermonters.

And believe me - I want costs to go down. Period. Exclamation point.

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foomp t1_ix1g7rj wrote

Vermonters are friendly. But it takes a long time for it to happen. Until then it's usually taciturn standoffishness.

The 'I moved to "participate" in the economy' is a very very not Vermont thing to say. The 'be left alone' bit is pretty Vermont of you though.

There's an old Vermont saw that goes like this:

> A farmer and his neighbor were sitting on the porch when man from down south drives up.
"Excuse me, is this the road to Jericho? I'm running late and a bit lost, any help would be appreciated".
"Yup. 'bout thirty more miles an' yer there".
The stranger headed off down the road. When he was out of sight the neighbor turned to the farmer.
"Why didn't you tell that man the bridge is out?".
"He didn't ask."

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FyuckerFjord t1_ix1j2eh wrote

Don't get me wrong, I've met some very friendly Vermonters, about half transplants here 25 plus years and half native. The natives have given me the lay of the land, and mostly, they're the families that understand a last name will go a long way with getting permits approved, and they don't have that last name. So they're the, damn I don't wanna say lower class in Vermont natives, but it's somewhere close to that. And you know what, thems my peeps. I don't like the exceptionlists.

With regards to participating, what I meant is I buy local. Farmstands. Mom and pops. Aubuchon instead of Home Depot. I don't want to come here and change things - I didn't vote in the primary but did in the general. I figure let the locals who know more than me (as a 2-year resident) decide the party representatives.

All in all, I'm trying to be as sensitive to a small state as I can, but I also realize that I busted my ass to get here and won't be marginalized. It's a fine line to walk. I'll tread it out of awareness for the state of this state, but it's also my home as well.

Happy to be here. :)

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Norse-Gael-Heathen t1_ix14ycj wrote

We are in a period of extremely high stress, anxiety and social change. There is no easy finger-pointing.

Yes, many out of staters have moved in. Many do not understand the local culture, think nothing of dropping $350,000 on a house (because that's a deal where they came from), and expect town, school, and other services to be what they were used to 'elsewhere.' The influx has raised housing prices and put pressure on Town boards to enact 'messy yard' ordinances and engage in expensive infrastructure projects. They dont understand that dirt roads should not be plowed in November with three inches of snow, or that schools are not free day care services and year-round entertainment venues.

On the other hand, my line of work means that I deal with dozens of foodshelves and volunteer-based social agencies: people offering their hearts and time to help those around us. And it's not unusual to find them staffed with people who moved here "from away." They have become the bedrock of many communities, and keep them functioning. Good People, even though they weren't born here. Vermonters in spirit, heart, and action.

50% of Vermonters today were born out of state. Many have adopted a Vermont way of life - some, even more so than those who are here merely as a geographic accident of birth. It has created a unique society of "Farmers with PhDs."

Yeah, I heat with wood that I split myself, hunt, help my first-time-shepherd-neighbor birth her lambs this past spring, grow all my own food, volunteer at local charities, know the best naked swimming holes, share our eggs with the neighbors in return for their hearing my rooster at 5 am, pull people out of ditches, tap 100 maple trees, raise bees, attend congregate senior meals at local churches, and do all the things that many would consider "Vermonty." And I was born in NYC.

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blacklabel8829 t1_ix1p7fh wrote

As someone planning to move to Vermont with a complete disdain for the way of life where I come from, you give me hope.

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birthbutbackwards t1_ix23qay wrote

I'm done with this subreddit now. I'm new here, absolutely love the people I meet. I work at a company where all, but one, are "flatlanders" and even that guy's parents moved here when he was an infant. Most of my coworkers have lived here for 30+ years. I live here with my wife and dog, fell in love with the state while visiting. Did tons of research. "Vermont needs people to move here, in some cases we'll pay you, the population is getting old, we need new blood", is what the internet told us. I never experienced the whole "out of state plates get hate" phenomenon. Everyone I meet are kind and I forget about the rest. I've even defended the vermont "tribalism" on this forum.

But holy shit people! I'm an immigrant, I left my country because of insane extreme nationalism. When I'm on reddit, I feel like I'm home again. "Dude didn't say hi, he's a dumb hateful flatlander..." Have you considered that maybe your worldview and attitude rubs off on the people you interact with? The ENTIRE WORLD is experiencing inflation. My home country is experiencing prices you wouldn't dream of. Can't get heating because of Russian propane cut off. The price of gas has been at 12 dollars a gallon for most of this year. The housing prices are through the roof. Imagine paying around 60% taxes on your income on top of that. EVERY SINGLE STATE in this country is experiencing the same inflation, flooding of out of staters. Believe me, we had to leave our home, cause we couldn't afford to stay and have since researched EVERYWHERE. Before getting kicked out of our parents and in-laws house. We're in our late thirties. Everyone is struggling with money, dread of the state of the world, politics, etc. We love this place. The people are amazing. People come from all over to love this place. To care for it. And reddit is "FuCinG FlaTLandurrrs" every day all day long. Come get a hug when you're gotten all that aggravation out of your system. I'm in Graniteville. I'd love your visit, friend, but I'm done with this subreddit.

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Unique-Public-8594 t1_ix36qwc wrote

Welcome and I wish you all the best.

(Some people are stuck in the “blame others” mind frame. It’s sad.)

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DaddyBobMN t1_ix0hlym wrote

There is danger in assuming that everyone moving here is the same and came for the same reasons just as there is a danger to assuming all Vermonters will react the same.

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TheTowerBard t1_ix141yd wrote

As someone who grew up here, moved away, and then chose to move back, I’d like to share my favorite story about “Vermont consciousness” and how “real” Vermonters treat folks from elsewhere.

My mother (the same kind woman that raised me here, but older now) was visiting from California and she had driven across the country in her Prius with California plates. We decided to go to lunch at Long Trail in Bridgewater. I drove both of us in her vehicle, a Prius, with CA plates. We missed a turn on our way there in the middle of nowhere. There was a house with some “gentlemen” out front, and I went to do a little turn around in the road, my front tires graced the fine gravel of the driveway.

As I did this, I waved and gave a friendly smile to my fellow Vermonters. One gentleman smiled back and approached the car as of to speak to us. It was then that this fine, Vermont conscious “true” Vermonter told me that if he ever saw me turn around using his driveway again he would drag me from my car and beat the “ever-loving piss” out of me.

I turned to my mom who smiled and said, “it’s good to be back home son, let’s go get some lunch.”

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btwnmtns t1_iwzs0gv wrote

Alarmist much?

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deadowl t1_ix0avgq wrote

I created a subreddit user flair, Serving Exile in Flatland, specifically for people in this scenario if you want to help raise awareness of it.

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darlee1234 t1_ix0dmig wrote

The rent and housing prices are insane. My previous apartment went from $1300 a month to $2100 within a span of 4 years. It was a one bedroom, and not in Burlington.

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derpMaster7890 t1_ix145o2 wrote

Sure, sure, of course you don't like outsiders you're at the gate of the NEK. Deal with it, and embrace new people.

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ReasonableLiving5958 t1_ix4kh0a wrote

Bullshit. Born in VT in 1989 as well. Have lived here my whole life. While housing is out of control, the people are as great as they've ever been and it's still one of the best states to live in in the entire country.

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Vermonter623 t1_ix093x9 wrote

There are a lot of douchebag landlords who own land in Vermont and live elsewhere. They take complete advantage of all the trend hoppers who flooded here for the instagram likes. My buddy was renting a shithole apartment I used to rent when I was younger. He moves out to live with a girl and when things weren’t going great he saw it was vacant only this time around she wants $1350 a month with nothing included instead of the $500 he was paying which was up from the $400 I paid. This shit should be illegal

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pro_conser333 t1_ix005nx wrote

I have definitely seen a change in the attitude of people shopping in stores and the behavior on the roads. I said to my husband that you can tell a lot of people from Massachusetts have recently moved here because of how aggressive a lot of the drivers are. We are from Massachusetts but have lived here for awhile but left to get away from all of that. I’m starting to feel a different vibe and it makes me sad because I love Vermont and don’t want it to be like other states. It’s different here. It’s funky and I don’t feel like I’m constantly being judged.

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TheTowerBard t1_ix18zon wrote

The same exact thing is literally happening everywhere right now. I work with people from all over the country and everyone is noticing this same increase in aggression and rudeness in folks, especially on the roads.

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CowHuman7223 t1_ix0h815 wrote

Hey, I'm the same age as you and I agree. Vermont has changed so rapidly and yet so many people are either blind or refuse to see it. Somehow the idea that Vermont is the land of ultra progressive ideas and the home of socialist Bernie has brought people with radically different beliefs into the state. Vermont was once a "red" state, but even back then Vermont republican and Democrats were so similar it'd be difficult to tell the difference. Farmer Democrats used to make up the bulk of voters, and were totally different from the current imported Democrats. Vermonters used to be known for being kind, hard working people. Now they're just seen as east cost Portland. It's sad. I miss the old Vermont.

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ReasonableLiving5958 t1_ix4lgol wrote

Vermont has been a democratic state for decades and decades, and no it wasn't "Farmer democrats." Most of the democrats that vote today are not "imported." They're educated, which is what you seem to have a problem with. These are mostly the same people who were born and raised in Vermont.

I laugh at all the beyond stupid "Take back Vermont!" idiocy I've seen in this state from the vocal minority in my entire life. With how long some of these people have had those stupid ass "Take Back Vermont" signs up, you'd think they'd get the common sense to move if they are so unhappy here. There's an idiot who has had one of those signs up for near 30 years and might be one of the biggest idiots I've ever met (and I don't call him stupid because of his politics, he genuinely must have a Forrest Gump level of IQ or less).

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CowHuman7223 t1_ix5iq83 wrote

Vermont was considered a red state from the 1860's until the 1980's. And "take back Vermont" was a slogan against civil unions, not a slogan for the Republican party. But go off genius. So you're still wrong. And fuck Trump.

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ReasonableLiving5958 t1_ix5k1tu wrote

And nothing with my post was wrong since I said for several decades. And Take Back Vermont has been a slogan for far more than a fight against gay rights for a long time. But go off, Trumpster

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Eledridan t1_ix0jdip wrote

You’re going to get a lot of hate, but you are telling the truth. It’s gentrification at the state level.

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