Comments
carandfreedomgeek2 t1_j2au3l3 wrote
I thought that quote couldn’t possibly be real…but there it is in the article. What a bunch of idiots. We should fire the whole force and start over.
Quelcris_Falconer13 t1_j2bzlod wrote
Sounds like a long way of saying “you held us account so now we don’t want to work”
Obvious-Design8030 t1_j2foe5f wrote
Cops have come and said as much on this subreddit. They won't do their jobs because their feelings got hurt. But also they expect overtime.
skiwhatwhat t1_j2egapu wrote
Pretty much.
LoganSquire t1_j2c8zfz wrote
It would be nice if the media would stop just copy and pasting this nonsense from the police union and including it as fact in their articles.
SomeLikeItRaw t1_j2e3ovk wrote
This is one of my perpetual gripes with reporting at all levels - how exceptional this is - any sense of responsibility to fact-check quotes instead of merely repeating them. Trump coverage was the 'exception that proves the rule', if only because he spoke falsely so frequently and flagrantly.
skiwhatwhat t1_j2eg9v5 wrote
Or print it and call out how absurd it is and how incongruous with facts it is...
Monkeylint t1_j2eqml8 wrote
"The police union made baseless claims that certain reforms..."
RandomLogicThough t1_j2bz1yh wrote
Yes, pretty moronic idea ...god, humans: "Things we don't like made murders go up, because! We are probably trying less so we can be whiny mofos"
[deleted] t1_j2ag5sz wrote
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[deleted] t1_j2eg6uc wrote
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Quick-kick95 t1_j2ad5aj wrote
There are certain use of force reforms that have been more of a detriment than a help. Also I think a lack of officers and a willingness to work is a big issue.
fullstackbuffoon t1_j2adv15 wrote
Use of force restraints do nothing to prevent murders, except murders of citizens by police. For use of force restraints to have any impact on the murder rate would require officers to routinely interrupt murders in progress, showing up after the fact is a deterrent to nothing. Gtfoh.
Quick-kick95 t1_j2arwrz wrote
Alright well I think going through my history you can see my experience with this. And I'll give my public two cents, without speaking for anyone or anything.
The use of force changes caused a dip in interactions. The use of force shift also changed a lot of other things, chase policy, warrant levels, interactions, lack of stops, lack of contacts etc. Which would normally result in arrests, interdictions, intelligence, interactions in general- stopping, slowing down, or ceasing entirely.
The chokehold ban is a bit of a stretch- but anyone who is trained to fight recognizes that a neck restraint is a very effective method of controlling a subject. But more importantly the actual impact that these reforms had were an observable exodus. This exodus and mass quitting is pretty observable across a lot of first responder communities, from EMTs to cops. A lot of people didn't want to keep up with the work and the treatment they received.
A lot of law enforcement also experienced a brain drain. A lot of knowledge about proper procedure and methods of interdicting criminals left when these people left, or they altogether stopped doing it. Replacement of these people with ten, fifteen years experience in certain fields (narcotics interdiction, firearms recovery etc) is pretty dang hard to get.
In MPD's case, especially, the busier part, patrol (people that drive around and answer 911 calls) is a very understaffed and overworked area that burns people out pretty quickly. Especially in the southern areas of the city, where someone as young as 23-26 can see multiple murders and shootings and other awful things in the span of a few weeks.
This puts a tremendous mental toll on people, and cops are naturally going to be more resilient people after a while but eventually it is going to wear them down. So most people leave for greener pastures in a better department in the area or further away, and thus the cycle continues.
It is not going to get better if they implement similar things continually. Murders will continue to go up, shootings and carjackings will continue if the city keeps up their current trend. And keep in mind MPD's role is a part of the system, I'd place just as much blame on the court system and the release of violent offenders as a recurring issue.
I hope that helps in a more concise and longer answer of why I think things are the way they are.
Barnst t1_j2azm58 wrote
So I see where you’re coming from and generally am on board with what you’re saying. I’m a little skeptical that chases, stops, and warrant servicing are the best interactions for developing the sorts of relationships that get you good intelligence, but that’d be a better discussion to have over beers if the opportunity ever presented itself.
The problem with the union response is that this sort of knee-jerk excuse to justify a return to the MOST divisive police practices makes it really hard for those of us who want to reform policing with a sympathetic ear toward the actual experience of those policing.
Sure, a chokehold can be a really good way to restrain someone. But it’s also a really good way to inadvertently kill people and generally a bad way to rebuild relations with a community that fundamentally doesn’t trust you. Of ALL the tools you would want as a cop, that seems like a really bad hill to die on. You could also argue that a spiked club is a probably a pretty useful tool for subduing people, but we’re not about to let the cops walk around with them.
The unions here are doing the line duty cop no favors. It’s hard to convince people to have sympathy for the genuinely tough spot many cops find themselves in when all the public sees is stuff like this. It’d be easier if we ever saw ANY sense of real self-awareness and desire to improve from within the policing world rather than the knee-jerk defensiveness and refusal to accept any responsibility.
LoganSquire t1_j2c8q1n wrote
> The use of force changes caused a dip in interactions.
“If I can’t choke out a minority, I’m not going to do my job anymore”.
Imagine saying this with a straight face as a justification for poor performance.
NoDesinformatziya t1_j2cjf0n wrote
I don't have to imagine it. Dipshit cops who are bad at their jobs say it every day; good cops don't.
Quick-kick95 t1_j2ej78m wrote
I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying. I think I laid out what I thought and my experiences with it pretty well, and I think you're not coming from a good place to have a discussion for me to really go on with this. I hope you enjoy your holiday and stay safe.
BSDC t1_j2agj52 wrote
citation please
damnatio_memoriae t1_j2aqz37 wrote
it's not like all these murders are happening while the police are standing around helplessly wishing they were allowed to choke the perpetrator out.
Astrosimi t1_j2akrzf wrote
Like?
Brickleberried t1_j2agbor wrote
The major problem with policing in this country is that we need more policing, but completely different style of policing. However, whenever we try to get more policing (in terms of budget or officers), they use it badly. That means the only two functional choices is more, brutal policing or less, good policing. That's a terrible choice.
High_DC t1_j2auq15 wrote
I think that a lot of it was also related to short-term pandemic effects. A lot of people were out of work. A lot of teenagers were out of school. A lot of stimulus dollars ensured a fairly high circulation of cash.
We've seen the homicide rate drop significantly just in the past six months, and I'm expecting to a see a pretty sizeable year-on-year decrease for the first half of 2023. Check back in six months to see how accurate that is!
violet-shift t1_j2b9q01 wrote
Yeah, like holy shit people seem to be bad about realizing this. From what I've read there was a noticeable uptick in crime over the last two years across the entire country, including both cities and rural areas, in democratic and republican dominated areas.
Given the timing and scope, the default assumption here should be that its pandemic related, and like you say -- we're seeing signs that violent crime may be dropping now.
e: Wikipedia has some per state data on homicides -- in that list almost every state had a noticeable uptick from 2019 to 2020. Hopefully someone is doing actual analysis of this data somewhere, but certainly eyeballing it seems to agree with what I've read. (With Puerto Rico being an outlier, but I have no idea how Covid affected them.)
Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_j2cerlq wrote
>Despite politicized claims that this rise was the result of criminal justice reform in liberal-leaning jurisdictions, murders rose roughly equally in cities run by Republicans and cities run by Democrats. So-called “red” states actually saw some of the highest murder rates of all. This data makes it difficult to pin recent trends on local policy shifts and reveals the basic inaccuracy of attempts to politicize a problem as complex as crime.
It's also important to note that this increase was for homicides, not overall crime. Overall crime has continued to decrease both nationally and in DC.
DC crime stats:
| Category | 2011 | 2016 | 2021 | 2022 YTD |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Homicide | 108 | 135 | 226 | 201 |
| Sex Abuse | 174 | 346 | 176 | 158 |
| Assault w/ a dangerous weapon | 2,520 | 2,278 | 1,675 | 1,383 |
| Robbery | 4,207 | 3,000 | 2,040 | 2,064 |
| Violent Crime (total) | 7,009 | 5,759 | 4,117 | 3,806 |
| Burglary | 3,948 | 2,122 | 1,172 | 1,042 |
| Motor Vehicle Theft | 3,820 | 2,700 | 3,515 | 3,730 |
| Theft from Auto | 7,839 | 12,175 | 8,690 | 7,779 |
| Theft (Other) | 10,206 | 14,574 | 10,915 | 10,777 |
| Arson | 39 | 6 | 4 | 4 |
| Property Crime (total) | 25,852 | 31,577 | 24,296 | 23,332 |
| All Crime (total) | 32,861 | 37,336 | 28,413 | 27,138 |
Effective_Golf_3311 t1_j2e76to wrote
I love this use of the murder rate. My ~100k pop city jumped nearly 400% during 2020 and 2021 due to some drug beefs gone bad but now it’s gone from 4 murders to one in 2022.
But that stat allows us to pretend that jurisdictions like mine were the problem. Meanwhile we can fill mass graves with the hundreds upon hundreds of bodies of young black men murdered in our major cities — red or blue — and we lack a desire to do anything about it so we’re just gonna blame the orange man.
[deleted] t1_j2cebde wrote
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well-that-was-fast t1_j2bkfmi wrote
> I think that a lot of it was also related to short-term pandemic effects. A lot of people were out of work.
I agree with pandemic effects but think it's more mental health, not financial. It's a long jump from people being unemployed to becoming murders, and were talking about 50+ cases (100+ from 2012).
This is more about people who were able to mentally keep things together until society underwent a lot of scary upheavals very quickly and they were unable to find help adjusting.
LeoMarius t1_j2bog20 wrote
A lot of people left DC because they were teleworking and not originally from here. That made many neighborhoods empty that were normally bustling with activity. Homeless camps set up and made the area less safe than when there were people regularly walking around.
They are just starting to come back to the area because offices are reopening.
harkuponthegay t1_j2c08x2 wrote
>made the area less safe than when there were people regularly walking around.
Homeless people are people though. (??)
If the homeless encampments are there then there are probably people who live there that are walking around.
To be honest I don’t think that homeless encampments had much of an effect on the homicide rate, nor do they make an area inherently less safe— there’s no reason to be afraid of homeless people, they aren’t some boogeyman—they’re no more violent than the rest of us.
You may not like them aesthetically, but they are not dangerous. It’s not the homeless who are running around shooting each other over petty gang conflicts.
LeoMarius t1_j2c0hpm wrote
Funny, because I got mugged by one. Must have been my imagination.
harkuponthegay t1_j2c1lu4 wrote
I doubt that you knew the housing situation of the person who mugged you (assuming you’re not just making shit up).
Did that happen in DC or back in university park Maryland?
Biogeopaleochem t1_j2anzsn wrote
Well do you want to solve murders or write traffic tickets? Only one of those makes money.
WhiskeyTigerFoxtrot t1_j2aounx wrote
Know what makes way more money than sporadic parking tickets? Safe neighborhoods. Businesses don't move into or operate in places with high crime.
There's 100% an economic incentive to solving murders, if you want to be a cynic and focus purely on the finances of it. There's also that whole, you know, justice thing.
damnatio_memoriae t1_j2aqj0x wrote
you're thinking long-term. we don't do that in this country.
darthjoey91 t1_j2arrkk wrote
But the money from safe neighborhoods doesn’t go directly to individual cops’ bonuses.
WhiskeyTigerFoxtrot t1_j2atmbn wrote
...huh? How do you think police "bonuses" and compensation work? They don't get paid more money for writing more parking tickets...
Most officers are lucky to get a desk toy and a $20 gift card for Christmas as a "bonus." Bonuses generally come either as a sign-on bonus to attract new officers (something we desperately need as incentive since the media demonizes cops and makes it unappealing) or for completing certifications. LAPD for example gives you a bonus for being a Spanish speaker. You can earn a bonus by being marksman certified or bomb squad or having another unique skill.
You're just regurgitating ACAB rhetoric because it aligns with the zeitgeist we're in right now.
Quick-kick95 t1_j2asohw wrote
DC doesn't make a lot of money from officers writing tickets. Most of the traffic enforcement money comes from automated cameras, not 50 dollar parking tickets.
Kitchen_Software t1_j2atatn wrote
Your point is valid, but to be pedantic: MPD doesn’t deal with parking tickets IIRC. That’s parking enforcement.
MPD would be (only?) moving violations. But I don’t think you could get one of those in DC if you tried.
Quick-kick95 t1_j2avr16 wrote
MPD also issues parking tickets.
BubsterX1 t1_j2dk02e wrote
This is correct. And those traffic cameras make tens of millions of dollars. The well-placed cameras (well-placed in the sense that people are expecting the speed limit to be about 35 based on the structure of the road) can individually generate several million dollars each year.
MidnightSlinks t1_j2aqtiz wrote
But they don't even write traffic tickets!
Macarogi t1_j2b2ozp wrote
>policing ... policing ... policing ... policing ... policing. That's a terrible choice.
Correct. Violent criminals need to be prosecuted and incarcerated. Police can't do that.
GuyNoirPI t1_j2b4f8r wrote
Correct, police can’t do that because they can’t solve crimes because they have horrible clearance rates.
mart_nargy t1_j2awvew wrote
The good policing you envision isn’t going to prevent murders. At best it’ll make it more likely the murderers are arrested.
Brickleberried t1_j2b01x6 wrote
I'd like more murderers being arrested.
mart_nargy t1_j2b05kp wrote
At best
PurdyCrafty t1_j2b78xi wrote
What point are you trying to make?
mart_nargy t1_j2bimu6 wrote
I’m skeptical that “more policing” is the answer to crime
kellyzdude t1_j2b26ui wrote
As with any complex problem, it requires a multifaceted solution. Improving policing overall to deal with the crimes that do happen (and providing a minimal deterrence), but also encouraging social improvements in an effort to prevent the crimes from occurring in the first place.
We need both, thinking that either one in isolation will solve the crime problem is delusional.
Barnst t1_j2d74r2 wrote
> At best it’ll make it more likely the murderers are arrested.
Making it more likely that murders are arrested is one of the best ways to prevent murders. Certainty of being caught has consistently been found to be one of the most powerful deterrents to crime.
mart_nargy t1_j2dg27y wrote
For the serial killers, yes. But that won’t work for the random kid who got pissed off and shot someone. And even the best police can’t make evidence or a witness appear out of thin air (well, they can, but that’s a whole other depressing story). So I’m skeptical that more police will actually lead to more arrests, which is why i said at best. I happen to think that reducing the number of guns in hands is a better way to reduce the number of murders.
Barnst t1_j2dsizs wrote
You have it backwards—serial killers aren’t deterred by good policing because they are motivated by a psychological need to kill. The random kid who gets pissed off is exactly who is more likely to be deterred by the knowledge they will likely just get arrested.
There are confounding variables in terms of how likely they are to be charged and how severe the sentencing is, but you really quickly hit diminishing returns there. Otherwise, the deterrence effect of the certainty of getting caught is one of the most consistent findings in research on crime reduction.
And good policing does result in more evidence. One of the factors that makes it hard to catch killers is distrust between the police and the community, which means people are less likely to come forward to help the investigation. Again, there is some really solid data demonstrating this over time. Heck, there is even some research showing that better policing directly reduces murders—one reason that beefs get so bad is distrust in the formal system to deliver justice, so people take matters into their own hands.
The whole point is that it isn’t simply “more” cops, but better cops. Adding more cops when the cops are shit doesn’t help and can hurt.
And, sure, I agree that reducing the number of guns would be great too, but sadly I suspect we have far more policy control over the cops. And how do you expect to remove illegal guns from hands without more and better policing?
herereadthis t1_j2eflmo wrote
Read the article.
The police union says the reason why homicides are higher is because police aren't allowed to choke people anymore.
Do you really think we need more police?
Brickleberried t1_j2ej78w wrote
Read my comment. Nothing you said disputes anything I said. In fact, it supports what I said.
damnatio_memoriae t1_j2api93 wrote
>198 in 2020
damn we missed the three-peat by this much.
High_DC t1_j2au7lm wrote
We also just made the two-peat by this much. There are 201 homicides for 2022 and tomorrow is the last day of the year.
Swampoodle1984 OP t1_j2bd1np wrote
I believe there were two additional homicides last night and already one this evening...so 204 now.
damnatio_memoriae t1_j2ccbll wrote
well, the night is young
FreemanCantJump t1_j2b2nu0 wrote
We can do it. 2020 may have just been our 1990 Pistons.
Acceptable-Let-3621 t1_j2c7g2w wrote
Unfortunately it was my first cousin that was shot and killed in NE for the 200th homicide. We've experienced death in the family but NEVER experienced one of ours being killed. It's truly tough. Wouldn't wish this on anyone. May peace be with all.of you. And happy New Year (I know it's early but..)😥
httr8 t1_j2ckvnm wrote
Very sorry to hear about your loss. Prayers to your family during this tough time.
Acceptable-Let-3621 t1_j2d50o1 wrote
I appreciate it and appreciate you. Thanks alot.
SDC83 t1_j2dlzoi wrote
So sorry for your loss.
Acceptable-Let-3621 t1_j2edg9f wrote
Thanks alot. Wishing u and urs a Happy safe and prosperous New Year.
borg359 t1_j2df146 wrote
Sorry for your loss. R.I.P.
Acceptable-Let-3621 t1_j2dhsmr wrote
🙏🏽
PanAmargo t1_j2b3kao wrote
The directive from the top has been hands off don’t do anything proactive and don’t cause any scandals and let the inner city kids kill themselves and we will clean up the blood after.
There’s no political will for proactive policing to get guns off the street and lock up criminals with warrants and probation violations before they shoot. Just respond after and send some tweet updates for look outs.
Convicting two cops for 2nd murder after a known gang member fled from a traffic stop is only gonna make the “sit in the car and do nothing” the norm.
So just shrug and go on about your business because nothing will change.
Gaijin_Monster t1_j2c6s53 wrote
bingo
hooliganswoon t1_j2ctjad wrote
Police can’t make any impact unless the USOA gets off their ass.
Throwaway2theplate t1_j2a9b28 wrote
There was a peaceful opioid fueled lull between the crack days and the new fentanyl era.
es_price t1_j2ae1ur wrote
- Crackezoic Period
- Opioidezoic Period
- Fentanylchean Period
dj768083 t1_j2arcbm wrote
There’s a visible white line separating the Crackezoic period and the Opiodezoic period. It’s left over debris from the impact crater off the West Virginia peninsula.
es_price t1_j2es4ek wrote
For me early Crackezoic was when every dealer thought it was cool to have flashy cars but then they figured out that cops were targeting them so then the later Crackezoic period had a lot of trashy cars driven by dealers.
gutterbrain73 t1_j2a58x0 wrote
"Those are rookie numbers" - Baltimore
SeattleCardboard t1_j2anldl wrote
330 in baltimore.
buxtonOJ t1_j2b2sir wrote
“Gotta pump those numbers up” - Philly
mc12345678 t1_j2b81vb wrote
napkin math, but Philly has way more people:
Baltimore Murders: 332
Baltimore Population: 554000
pct of population murdered 0.00059%
Philadelphia Murders: 514
Philadelphia Population: 1610000
pct of population murdered: 0.00031%
DC 2022 Murders: 201
DC Population: 707000
pct of population murdered: 0.00028%
buxtonOJ t1_j2b8ahx wrote
Whooosh
mc12345678 t1_j2b8pla wrote
No, I get Philly wasn't literally saying "hold my beer", I was just adding on that Baltimore is actually still worse.
DfcukinLite t1_j2biqm6 wrote
Philly is still bad.
DfcukinLite t1_j2biwsc wrote
What happens in Baltimore don’t change or effect what’s going on in DC.
Existing365Chocolate t1_j2akt57 wrote
Wonder how many of the 200 murders were committed by someone who the DA let go
hooliganswoon t1_j2ctk7t wrote
Not DA, USAO
Dr_Midnight t1_j2f6aar wrote
> Not DA, USAO
Sometimes, I read these threads and wonder how many of them live even remotely in the region given that they seem to be ready to comment on who does what in a given area while getting the basic facts wrong.
In /r/Baltimore, as an example, there was guy who was saying that the crime was the fault of the Mayor because he is apparently too afraid to fire the District Attorney.
Note that Baltimore has a States Attorney and it's an elected position over which the Office of the Mayor has precisely zero control.
Here, we have a user who doesn't even know which party is responsible for undertaking in the act of criminal prosecutions in the District. Likewise, between 3 different city subreddits I actively participate in, and the way it frequently pops up in other subreddits, the number of times I see the "tHe DA dOeSn'T pRoSeCuTe CrImInAlS" trope is hilarious - especially after what happened in San Francisco. ^^^^[archived]
In other cases, it becomes blatantly obvious when the right-wing "let police do their jobs" crowd that doesn't live in a city comes in to a thread.
Case in point: In /r/LosAngeles, during the run up to the General Election, a user who claimed to be resident of 2 years who had apparently moved from Chicago (lmao, sure) spoke about how Los Angeles has gotten worse under the leadership of Karen Bass... who - up until she took office as the newly elected Mayor of Los Angeles two weeks ago - had never held elected office in the City of Los Angeles.
[deleted] t1_j2fgb7l wrote
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hooliganswoon t1_j2fj930 wrote
>Here we have a user…
I know you’re not taking about me, right?
Dr_Midnight t1_j2fkwt8 wrote
In this context, I was loosely referring to the user that you replied to whilst also speaking generically. You yourself are not who I was referring to.
hooliganswoon t1_j2flnhx wrote
Right on, could have just replied to their comment and made it all clear 🤷♂️ Anyhow, I don’t blame people too hard for not understanding DC uses the USAO and not a DA, probably took me 8 years to figure out after moving here. I do however notice an influx of right wing comments lately, not to call out the other person as necessarily right wing.
Separate-Landscape48 t1_j2afc72 wrote
Isn’t a lot of this juveniles? Still feeling the impact of closing schools
Quick-kick95 t1_j2asf2m wrote
A majority of the victims are between the ages of 16-27 for the most part, and the offenders range all over. But yes, juvenile crime is also on the rise but the data is hard for me to get publicly. Someone smarter or more connected could probably pull the numbers out.
High_DC t1_j2au3mq wrote
Yeah, probably.
Context is interesting. We hit 200 on the second-to-last day of the year. Homicides over all are currently down 11% from 2021. As of June, they were still up 16%, so the entirety of the decrease has come in the second half of this year.
Given the very recent trends, I'd expect that to continue with a big drop in the first half of 2023.
dc_co t1_j2b6wau wrote
RemindMe! 6 months
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scott0ferd t1_j2ap1t0 wrote
Plus all the failed murders by kids with bad aim.
TechnoBagels t1_j2d7fev wrote
does this mean we can change the basketball team's name back to the Bullets?
Loki-Don t1_j2avymx wrote
The days of the “Mayor for Life” Marion “Murder - Catch and a release ” Barry are back baby!
Less_Wrong_ t1_j2aqrgu wrote
It’s been a hot summer
[deleted] t1_j2b2t4z wrote
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[deleted] t1_j2b879l wrote
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NotThatMadisonPaige t1_j2cc652 wrote
1990s: oh that’s cute
[deleted] t1_j2awwzw wrote
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suffertunity t1_j2bca5n wrote
Or as non-sensationalist media would put it, murders are down from 226 to ~200 this year.
Beneficial-Count9583 t1_j2ceqdv wrote
What happens if someone is killed halfway in P.G. and halfway in DC ?
Hellstorm5674 t1_j2cg46c wrote
NEW RECORD /s
[deleted] t1_j2e8bb9 wrote
[removed]
borg359 t1_j2deyb7 wrote
It’s like playing Sim City. Create a society with huge wealth disparities and put them living side by side and the inevitable outcome is crime and the associated violence that comes with it. It’s not rocket science.
SperryGary t1_j2c3hjz wrote
The normalization of full faced masks make the criminals seem invincible.
Affectionate_Shop445 t1_j2c47y9 wrote
Blame Covid
hannibalbaracka t1_j2cqfjo wrote
Nationwide, homicide dropped about 5% this year, while it has dropped 11% in DC this year.
It's almost like all the law and order folks have a narrative they push about cities being hyper dangerous or something.
RutherfordBHandsome t1_j2afwdx wrote
Can't wait for Bowser 2026!
[deleted] t1_j2aney8 wrote
[deleted]
DrunkWoodchuck t1_j2ds7qv wrote
More police don't stop murders. Murders overwhelmingly happen between people that know each other. Unless the people who know each other also hang out at a police station, the murder is happening regardless of how many officers are sitting in their cars playing on their phones.
I'm all for more police, but the police we have aren't doing anything. Last time I called the DC police due to repeated sexual harassment on city property their response was essentially to go fuck myself. What indication is there that the additional force will make a difference?
Wanting more police, rather than effective police, is a sign that she doesn't give a shit about this issue.
[deleted] t1_j2e7dxs wrote
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DrunkWoodchuck t1_j2e8zf7 wrote
No, I am correct. I don't care about your abstract hypothetical statistic city. In DC, the ratio of officers to population stayed relatively stagnant while crime dropped precipitously.
You're talking about a frictionless ice rink. I'm talking real world. DC police do not stop crimes. And that's according to MPD DATA! Who are you to argue with the police when they say their staffing didn't impact crime rates?
felinebeeline t1_j2b58xd wrote
Too much focus on the police in these discussions, and it serves as a distraction.
As the saying goes, "It's the economy, stupid."
Shikadi314 t1_j2c2afr wrote
Did incomes go up in the second half of the year ?
felinebeeline t1_j2c7bv1 wrote
Poverty isn't the one and only factor that affects murder rates, but increased poverty has always resulted in increases in crime. It wouldn't make sense for there not to be an increase in murders, considering inflation and the widening gap between the rich and the poor. Salaries and wages have not kept up with inflation.
realNoahMC t1_j2b4xyt wrote
In my opinion, I think violent crime in DC or elsewhere in the country has more or less the same reasons:
It is not necessary a police problem ( although bad policing can be blamed) it is not necessary a race problem (although the fucked up racist history and still current affairs unfortunely can be blamed).
I believe, it is mostly an economic problem. Poor people regardless of background will commit violent crimes , while rich people regardless of background usually commit non-violent crime but their crimes negatively affects this country more. That is not to say that violent crime should be ignored but we need to get our heads out of our asses and stop this socialism to the very rich while we get almost shit, and we need push for more equitable and fairer economic society where every American can live in dignity and that our taxes that we literally pay into for most of our lives gives us the benefits and privileges that we as American citizens deserve in this country.
I am not into DC politics but from what I understand that DC is taking good steps to help people in need and then takes a couple of steps back by relaxing policing laws...
Just my two cents of socio-political rambling. Back to my gyming...
MrPterodactyl t1_j2be7s5 wrote
Poverty plus density equals violence. I used to live in a rural area with plenty of heavily armed poor people and you didn't really have to worry about crime.
Usually it would go on in the trailer parks or in houses deep in the woods. Here it can go on one block away from your yuppie apartment.
Tahh t1_j2bnwoz wrote
You'd think Beijing or Bangladesh would be up to their ears in murders.
DfcukinLite t1_j2c08yu wrote
No you wouldn’t, because their society and culture is different then here.
realNoahMC t1_j2cap9d wrote
They don't have a gun culture over there I think but I am sure there are other violent crimes. Like China with their reeducation camps and I believe Bangladesh has a big rape problem from articles I read diring the pandemic because of poverty and lack of funds to get married/start a relationship.
MrPterodactyl t1_j2cfc9c wrote
That's a good point. The scots-irish honor culture which heavily influenced black culture is a big part of it too.
Police in Asian countries are also openly allowed to do things that would be considered brutality over here.
I read that in Singapore, police can beat you for littering.
realNoahMC t1_j2ca92h wrote
Good point but maybe it also has to do with the high cost of living in DC
hooliganswoon t1_j2ctbbb wrote
It’s crazy to me that this is downvoted at all… maybe it’s the policing thing for missing the mark on blame that rests on the USAO instead of police, but otherwise I really don’t get how this is contentious.
Barnst t1_j2accx5 wrote
> The police union said certain reforms – including chokehold bans, the improvement of public access to body camera footage and expanded civilian review boards – are responsible for the high homicide numbers.
JFC, police unions, people weren’t restraining themselves from shooting at each other because they were worried you were going to roll up to choke them and then avoid accountability.
Maybe it has more to do with the fact that your murder clearances have been falling since the early 2010s and now there are headlines claiming that you can kill someone and there’s a better than even chance you’ll get away with it. And, funny enough, getting the sort of cooperation from potential witnesses often requires the sort of community trust that comes with NOT choking people out and then accepting public accountability.