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autotldr t1_j1s3kni wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot)


> Turkey summoned France's ambassador over what it called "Black propaganda" by Kurdish activists during a march to mourn three people killed in a shooting at a Kurdish cultural centre in Paris.

> French Ambassador Herve Magro was summoned on Monday so Ankara could relay unease after some marched in Paris with flags of the banned Kurdistan Workers' Party or suggested that Turkey was linked to the shooting, the Turkish state-run Anadolu Agency reported.

> The PKK has waged a four-decade armed campaign against the Turkish state, seeking autonomy for Kurdish areas of southeastern Turkey.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Turkey^#1 Kurdish^#2 PKK^#3 France^#4 propaganda^#5

1

TidusDaniel5 t1_j1s4vr3 wrote

Can't tell who has the worst nationalists in Eastern Europe, the Serbians or the Turkish.

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Aytanri- t1_j1s5poa wrote

"People carrying the flag of the PKK – outlawed (due to being a literal terror organization) in Turkey AND in the European Union – were seen during the demonstration. The PKK has waged a four-decade armed terror campaign against the Turkish state and civilians."

There, fixed it

45

Stock_Rush2555 t1_j1s80rq wrote

> advance it's sneaky agenda

What's with right wing fascists claiming everyone has a sneaky agenda? Paranoia? Projection? Is it just unverifiable propaganda meant to scare people?

Also, why won't turkey just stfu? Leadership is just DESPERATE for relevance on the world stage

−4

Aytanri- t1_j1s9x5a wrote

French officials are literally parading together with supporters of an EU-recognized terror organization. These same people tried to blame Turkey for an attack, perpetrated by some random xenophobic Frenchman, calling for France to cut diplomatic ties with Turkey and whatnot.

The leader of France's biggest left-party openly supported said terror organization.

​

>Leadership is just DESPERATE for relevance on the world stage

The article posted wasn't from any Turkish newspaper, so it seems like Turkey doesn't even have to push for relevance. Its natural.

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pewpewpewouch t1_j1sb6h1 wrote

What's so sad about this whole thing is that some rando mental racist idiot walks into a salon, kills a few foreign people, an then both Turkey and Kurdish supporters are using it to talk shit about each other.

Even on Reddit.

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TheDukeOfMars t1_j1sihdl wrote

Again, these terror organizations don’t appear in a vacuum. They are almost always a result of when an ethnic group doesn’t have representation at the international level and they view these groups as their only option. Same thing happened with Hamas.

−12

_CHIFFRE t1_j1skrtt wrote

i agree although wouldn't directly compare the situation of Palestinians (esp. those in Gaza) to Kurds in Turkey, Kurds can move freely, are represented in the Politics, Media, Education system and other important sectors and millions of kurds live in Western cities like Istanbul even though their historical living areas are near Syria, Iraq, Iran and Armenia. Turkey isn't an Apartheid state but some measures that are done in order to prevent further problems with separatism and violence are harmful.

But there has been progress made, in the 80s and 90s the situation was horrific.

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TheDukeOfMars t1_j1suwgc wrote

Turkey is a unitary state, rather than a federal one. That means the national government has direct authority over local politics. So even in a majority Kurd area, they may not feel equally represented at the national level. And the national government ultimately will determine policy at the local level.

Sure, they get to send representatives to the national congress, but because they are such a significant minority those representatives are pretty much powerless. “All politics is local.” We should have governments that reflect that.

Federalism is the way to go for ethnically and politically diverse countries in my opinion. It allows for national rule but local rule is also very important. But that would require changing the entire constitution.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_state

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism

−12

DrakeAU t1_j1sviau wrote

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

−11

LiedAboutKnowingMe t1_j1tfmrm wrote

None of this would have happened if they weren’t forced to be refugees in the first place.

Don’t both sides this.

Turks should come out in support. You can rephrase it. “What’s so sad about this thing is that some rando idiot walks into a salon, kills a few foreign people, and the Turks still can’t find it in themselves to support the victims of this senseless attack because of their own bigotry.”

−9

BanBreaking t1_j1tkl9l wrote

nobody in Turkey says all Kurds are terrorists. We've had this discussion internally on a public level for the past 15 years. What's sad is that European countries still support terrorists even though they recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization.

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BanBreaking t1_j1tksz4 wrote

powerless? Kurdish votes WILL determine the result of the next general election. they aren't powerless. They are the most sought out party currently in Turkey and appears to stay as such in the future.

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another-masked-hero t1_j1tmtci wrote

> Turks should come out in support. You can rephrase it. “What’s so sad about this thing is that some rando idiot walks into a salon,…”

Why did you remove the “racist” description that the original commenter had for the attacker? Sounds like an omission unless you’re trying to make a point that I don’t get.

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BanBreaking t1_j1tqcfn wrote

look at the protests in Paris. you might not be aware since you weren't hit by the PKK before unlike Turkey, but they are waving PKK flags on the streets of paris and this is allowed for some reason.

13

KryptosFR t1_j1tr0rz wrote

Ever heard of free speech? It doesn't mean the country supports terrorist.

Or should I consider every confederate or Nazi flag in the USA meaning the whole country supports fascism?

−3

Left_Share3227 t1_j1ttj9k wrote

All depends where you want to draw the line. Cause the Kurds were protesting. Not terrorizing.

Your literally pointing all blame at the protestors going crazy because their people were killed.

What would you do if your mother, brother, child was just casually enjoying their coffee/lunch at a cafe during a protest an someone opens fire on them ? I’ll tell you what you would do you would get any other human you could to take too the streets an demand answers.

Answers the French Government dosent have because it wasn’t them who organized the shooting, so now you have no way to take out your rage so what do you do ?

Are you from turkey ? Im sure Erdogan considers all “protestors” “terrorists”. Ecspecially when they actually want too hold a Democratic election.

Edit: also good try trying to flip that “I see we’re your mind is at” bullshit on me. You clearly are a racist.

−10

BanBreaking t1_j1tu7eq wrote

If my mother/brother/sister/father was shot drinking coffee I wouldnt wave an ISIS flag m8. its literally that simple. From your comment I gather that you're 2 steps away from waving an Al Qaeda flag. all it takes is a family members murder.

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Left_Share3227 t1_j1tunsc wrote

I mean no I don’t follow islam. But you ignored most of my points which makes me feel like your intentionally blinding yourself so you can feel right so ima just stop typing

Jus remember if you ever go west protesting dosent equal terrorism.

An what they did after the shooting which was “riot”also dosent equal terrorism.

You give me the feeling you don’t like Kurds as a people in general.

−5

BanBreaking t1_j1tuuol wrote

I'm not blinding myself. What I'm saying is grief doesn't naturally result in waving terrorist flags. Do you think that's normal?

Also I never said they are terrorists. But supporting terrorists and wabi f the flags of groups which have murdered civilians should be illegal. Oh and meanwhile, European news such as Euronews and BBC call these terrorists "freedom fighters". If that's not making light of the situation i don't know what is.

Also; i take it that you'll wave some sort of terrorist flag more in line with you beliefs then?

3

Left_Share3227 t1_j1tv8vx wrote

Dude are obsessed with flags or something ? This may be hard to believe but not everyone is concerned with what flags are at a protest.

Nope if I’m at a protest I’m their to protest. Just because a protester brings a flag to a protest in your mind means all people are protesting support for that flag ? I hope that isn’t your opinion on it because that would be a very simple minded an outright idiotic thought.

Edit: You “I never called them terrorists”. Also you on the protests because you saw a flag. “How about we don’t support terrorism of any kind.”

This is becoming a bad debate my friend you keep making me feel like I’m more right.

1

BanBreaking t1_j1tvyty wrote

are you fucking insane? Obv I'm concered about the flags because flags are historically representative of what ideology someone supports? if this not clear as day for you westerners? then why ban nazi flags in germany? you are contradicting yourself on so many levels.

​

>“How about we don’t support terrorism of any kind.”

yeah directed at the french government for allowing that shit.

​

if you think you are more right after this you havent had enough bombings in your home town my friend. if you are French, maybe the Paris bombing wasn't enough for you to understand how much of a threat these things pose.

3

Aytanri- t1_j1tz5ce wrote

They were attacking Police, burning cars, destroying private property, even in Cities outside of Paris.

If that isn't organized terror, than I don't know what is.

A Turkish Student in Paris was brutally murdered a few weeks ago by getting shot in the back of his head.

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-student-killed-in-armed-attack-in-paris-179426

Did you see any French Turks rioting in the Streets? Making Kurds responsible? Running after Kurds in the streets, like the PKK-Sympathizers did when they saw Turks during the riots? Vandalizing the City? No, you didn't even see any News Articles by foreign Media mentioning this.

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Aytanri- t1_j1u04d4 wrote

Well, the Kurds rioting in Paris are in fact PKK-Sympathizers. All of them made the specific decision to wave Flags of the PKK, Öcalan, or other PKK-linked Groups, yet no Flags of the Kurdish Regional Government of North Iraq.

They were literally shouting slogans like: "we are PKK" or "Freedom for Öcalan"

And to absolutely nobody's surprise, one of the "important community figures" that got shot by the old Frenchman was an official actual PKK Member with the codename "Evin Goyi".

France protecting the PKK is nothing new, it was known for years. Now the snake France fed, came back to bite the hand from which it was fed.

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BloodAria t1_j1u9mek wrote

That argument doesn’t work in Europe, they ban Nazi symbols. Holocaust denial, public support of terrorist groups like ISIS, only PKK gets a free pass for some reason despite being recognized as a terror group.

The US is at least consistent because of the first amendment, not much is truly illegal when it comes to public expression.

8

CakeEnjoyur t1_j1usxxi wrote

Maybe let the Kurds control their own lives? The UK learned this lesson with Ireland. Turkey should be like the UK and not get terrorised because they can't let go of their colonised peoples.

−2

NotsosmartamInow t1_j1v3qj4 wrote

I think this is where the exception comes in i.e politics. Even nationalist Turks question why he is in jail because there really never was a trial (I think), as we see the same thing is happening to Imamoglu right now. Once you get enough traction to make appropriate noise you become targeted by the state.

But I don't think he was arrested for speaking Kurdish, if that was the case at least 5 of my friends are running from the law right now.

0

NotsosmartamInow t1_j1v59j3 wrote

I never said racism doesn't exist. I just stated how when you become a high level politician you're more likely to be jailed, hence why Demirtas being arrested for speaking Kurdish is probably not the case. You're free to speak Kurdish, that doesn't mean a psycho won't do something wild.

If speaking Kurdish was against the Law then state sponsered TRT Kurdi is just full of criminals ( I don't really think that I'm just pointing out the irony)

0

Arcsindorei t1_j1v6rp7 wrote

The UK didn't learn any lesson with Ireland. Keeping Ireland just for the sake of imperial pride did not make sense for the British; Ireland was not that valuable. Otherwise why would they oppose Scottish independence? Could it be related to the natural resources they possess?

More than half of Kurds in Turkey are happy with their Turkish citizenship. So it is actually a minority that supports separatism and terrorism in Turkey.

1

Arcsindorei t1_j1v8nm0 wrote

Those protesters very clearly demonstrated PKK flags, and expressed their support for their leader. The thing is, even though the EU recognizes PKK as a terrorist organization they do very few to stop their activities. Especially France and Germany, possibly because Kurds can vote in these countries and political parties want their votes. How can they get their votes? Just sit and watch them waving their flags, do nothing to stop PKK supporters financing PKK. European countries may not be directly supporting PKK, but they are definitely doing nothing against them.

3

feckdech t1_j1vc38n wrote

I'd guess the Kurds are in the same situation Jews were at before 2WW.

Only after the war, the British decided to give Israel region to them. That rose conflict, Arab/Muslim world has for centuries considered their land, even if historically it was once Jewish.

What's worse is that we can't make peace. Everyone's claims are valid in their own eyes. That's what's been happening with Ukraine. And now Serbia and Kosovo (Kosovo unilaterally declared independence, US was the first to recognize), Turkey and Kurds, Israel and Palestinians. India and Pakistan (Kashmir and Bangladesh).

−1

abolish_the_prisons t1_j1vey1k wrote

Turkey also considers revolutionaries from Iran to be terrorists, and just arrested 94 Iranian protestors and sent them back to the Iranian regime.

You have to be willingly ignorant to not see how this is connected, and that protestors in Iran are singing kurdish chants from the Kurdish Women‘s Revolution like “Jin Jiyan Azadi!“ (women, life, freedom!)

The Syrian Defense Forces (SDF) the US is allied with against ISIS, Assad and Al Quaeda includes YPJ and YPG. The only reason Turkey wants to label every kurdish freedom fighter as a terrorist is because they have an openly genocidal agenda in northern Syria

3

CakeEnjoyur t1_j1vl1fy wrote

What about Syria that Turkey is currently invading so the Kurds can't have their own country? I never meant that the UK learned anything from that, but the IRA got most of what they wanted. You shouldn't be so obtuse to not understand what I meant.

1

escap0 t1_j1vur85 wrote

18% of Turkish citizens are Kurdish. 18% of the Turkish military is Kurdish. There is a Kurdish political party in Turkey called The Peoples' Democratic Party. It controls 56 seat out of 600 in the Grand National Assembly with hundreds of provincial and municipal councillors.

Turkey’s beef is with the PKK and the YPG.

Basically you don’t know what the F you are talking about.

0

Arcsindorei t1_j1vv4x0 wrote

There are just so many wrongs with your point of view mate.

First, what you are implying is that if sovereign nations don't want terrorists attack them, they must negotiate with them. This perspective suggests that the US should have made official contact with el qaida, or ISIS so that they stopped attacking their country. This is complete bollocks, you never negotiate with organizations that are recognized as terrorist.

Second, just like there are Kurds in southeastern Turkey, there are Turks there as well. Turkish people, language and culture have been present in that region for hundreds of years, and Kurdish nationalism and separatism completely ignore this fact. They do not have the right to found their country in Turkish territory.

Third, the matter in Syria is not exactly the same with Kurdish separarism in Turkey, or Irish separatism in 1920s UK. YPG in Syria is an illegal organization as it violates a sovereign nation's territory, sells its natural resources to overseas nations like the US, then with that money buy heavy weaponry to arm their millitants. It just happens that their millitants use mortars and similar explosives on civilian structures in Turkey, in support of PKK. It is true that they want to found their own state, however every action they have taken so far has caused obvious security threats to the countries surrounding them. Turkey, Syria, Iraq have every right to defend themselves and act against such threats.

Kurdish nationalist just have to find a peaceful solution to their problem. Otherwise they just become terrorists.

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escap0 t1_j1zk2tc wrote

Glad you asked. It is very acceptable. I lived there over a decade. Plenty of Kurdish spoken daily. It would be hard to even go a single day in public without hearing some Kurdish. What is not allowed is Kurdish as a primary language in the public education system. You can learn any language as a secondary language, but they want Turkish to be your mother tongue. Private schools can teach any language as well. A secondary language is very common in Turkey. Usually it is English.

0