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Riptide360 t1_j9ajh1q wrote

Random knife attacks targeting women? Glad this guy stepped in. I hope they can piece together what caused the dead assailant to snap.

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hedgetank t1_j9bzqc4 wrote

The Mayor : Callahan... I don't want any more trouble like you had last year in the Fillmore district. You understand? That's my policy.

Harry Callahan : Yeah, well, when an adult male is chasing a female with intent to commit rape, I shoot the bastard - that's my policy.

The Mayor : Intent? How'd you establish that?

Harry Callahan : When a naked man is chasing a woman through a dark alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross.

[leaves]

The Mayor : I think he's got a point.

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BillOfArimathea t1_j9c1bos wrote

Mayor: “Drebin, I don’t want any more trouble like you had last year on the South Side. Understand? That’s my policy.”

Frank Drebin: “Yes. Well, when I see five weirdos dressed in togas stabbing a guy in the middle of the park in full view of 100 people, I shoot the bastards. That’s my policy.”

Mayor: “That was a Shakespeare-In-The-Park production of “Julius Caesar”, you moron! You killed five actors! Good ones.”

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victoriaa- t1_j9cy4em wrote

Incel communities encourage and fantasize about attacking women.

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riptide81 t1_j9dcmmm wrote

These things were happening long before that term was coined.

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victoriaa- t1_j9ev7y6 wrote

Absolutely but there are online echo chambers of encouragement, it will only get worse

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MidLifeHalfHouse t1_j9e9766 wrote

Yup. They just didn’t have a name yet. And since now they have eco chambers, I don’t expect the progress we all hoped for.

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victoriaa- t1_j9ev9rh wrote

Exactly it’s only going to get worse as they get encouragement and praise

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ChikaNoO t1_j9alcg5 wrote

Glad a hero stopped the piece of ****. Glad police didn't shoot the hero by mistake...

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Available-Camera8691 t1_j9atfhw wrote

You don't have to censor yourself. You can say "poop".

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Trent1373 t1_j9b3w7i wrote

I think it’s funny when people censor themselves. I’m pretty sure most of us on Reddit are adults.

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[deleted] t1_j9bxhdf wrote

[removed]

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Thr0waway3691215 t1_j9ctwan wrote

That's exactly how I tell when people are using speech to text, never understood why that's a default.

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Fox_Kurama t1_j9mgjjd wrote

Well aren't you so funny mr ***************************************************************************banana****************.

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HappilyhiketheHump t1_j9aljrn wrote

A good guy with a gun.

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Helpful-Substance685 t1_j9aupgj wrote

Definitely a nice change of pace hearing a US citizen used a gun in the service of saving lives.

We still need common sense gun control but I'm glad this guy was able to help.

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[deleted] t1_j9b20jq wrote

[removed]

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2014justin t1_j9c4q48 wrote

Between 300,000 and 1.5 million a year, and in 80% of DGU situations, no one is shot.

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WanderingPickles t1_j9aux3p wrote

Happens about a million times a year per the FBI.

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fourfourzero t1_j9awk3k wrote

source required

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WanderingPickles t1_j9b1npp wrote

You can google it. Here is a wiki entry that covers the spread of studies and results. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

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fourfourzero t1_j9be8a0 wrote

that's not a source. you sir, are full of shit.

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No___ImRight t1_j9bf4x5 wrote

You know that Wikipedia has a "References" section with all the sources

This person provided you with appr 49 sources.

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WanderingPickles t1_j9bfyk8 wrote

I sure did. I even provided a sort of disclaimer, noted that it includes a wide range of sources too.

It’s almost like some folks never moved beyond needing to be spoon fed by mommy and daddy.

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Benedictus84 t1_j9bi45b wrote

The only time the FBI is mentioned is in a statistic that per every defensive homicide there are 35 criminal homicides.

I wont say Wikipedia is not a source. But this source does not support your claim and is overal quite terrible.

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Hawklet98 t1_j9bk7c8 wrote

35,000,000 criminal homicides every year? That sounds about right. What, you don’t think 10% of Americans are murdered every year? You must not watch Fox News.

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Benedictus84 t1_j9ble4w wrote

To be fair, they didn't say there were a million defensive homicides per year. Just a million instances of defensive gun use.

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WanderingPickles t1_j9bj03b wrote

Look up the other sources. Additionally, look deeper; the overwhelming majority of defensive incidents do not result in someone’s death.

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Benedictus84 t1_j9bkyie wrote

Your claim is not supported by your source. That's all i am saying. There is no other mentioning about the FBI in your source. I understand that the majority of defensive incidents do not result in someone's death. I am not debating that.

Why do i have to spoon feed you all of this?

You can pick any of the sources cited by the Wikipedia article and i would bet none of them state it happens about a million times every year per the FBI.

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[deleted] t1_j9axjjm wrote

[removed]

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_j9bccmt wrote

It's also based on self reporting.

Lot of the DGU encounters neglect to mention that they, uh, got in a fight (or were doing a crime against someone). They sure love that "dead men tell no tales" bit.

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[deleted] t1_j9bejf2 wrote

[removed]

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hedgetank t1_j9c225x wrote

It's difficult to track because unless shots are fired or something actually happens, the police aren't called. If the police are called, it's after the event and the report won't really reflect much.

So, the only way to track these kinds of incidents is either going to be self-reporting, or some means of requiring a police report and requiring the report to reflect that the victim drew a firearm in preparation for self defense, but didn't require firing it.

You can imagine just how difficult it would be to get cops to do all that paperwork, considering how loathe they are to do it already.

This means that people who don't want to believe that it's even possible for whatever reason can blow off the statistic, because, like a lot of other things, if it's not reported, it obviously didn't happen, right?

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[deleted] t1_j9cq5mc wrote

[removed]

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hedgetank t1_j9czdh0 wrote

I mean that if someone threatened me with a weapon for whatever reason, I drew my firearm in preparation to defend myself because I had no other choice, she the attacker decided to cut and run instead of risking it, why would I call the cops and invite all the hassle that dealing with American cops brings?

There's no suspect, there's little evidence, no shots fired, presumably no harm to me, and my choices are to call 911, try to convince them that something happened and to send cops, spend hours going over details, and end up nowhere; or I could simply collect my wits and get the hell out of there.

Hell, after I was attacked and nearly killed, the cops and the DA both said to me face that since there were no witnesses, and the area was rough, there was basically fuck-all they could do and zero chance they'd ever find the guy, and my home town is relatively small.

Studies and data from the FBI generally show, too, that many encounters of various kinds like I described above go unreported because people don't want to deal with the cops. More so if they're a minority.

So tell me again, how do you propose to track incidents where someone draws a gun in self defense, but things never get to a point where shots are fired and police aren't involved?

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lynx_and_nutmeg t1_j9eyaza wrote

Pretty sure that road rage guy who shot another guy's daughter in the car would totally claim he was "protecting himself"*

*from having to suffer an emotional reaction of boredom while sitting in the traffic

Yeah, self-report doesn't mean shit.

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hedgetank t1_j9c3jd0 wrote

the thing about that is, with regards to someone "getting into a fight", there's so much gray area to it that the blanket statement of "they got in a fight" doesn't disqualify their right to use force in self defense. There are numerous scenarios in which a person may have gotten into a fight, or even started a fight, and still be within their rights to escalate/use greater force to defend themselves.

It's just not automatic/clear cut.

And in the case of "were doing a crime against someone", legally speaking, they would not be entitled to a claim of self defense if they were committing a crime, outside of very specific circumstances. To wit, if I were in the middle of burglarizing your home and I found you busy stabbing your wife to death, technically I would be within my rights to use force to stop you, despite my being in the middle of committing a crime, as I'm technically acting in defense of another.

So just throwing those out there like they somehow automatically disqualify either the entire survey or even the particular claims is deeply misleading and erroneous without all of the facts available to review.

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AggressiveSkywriting t1_j9cer3l wrote

>So just throwing those out there like they somehow automatically disqualify either the entire survey or even the particular claims is deeply misleading and erroneous without all of the facts available to review.

I mean, these variables DO throw the entire survey into doubt though. It cannot be used as some ironclad "truth" like many try to use, because it's problematic in its nature. That's just how stats work, often.

People using this old survey without any context or all the facts is "equally" misleading and erroneous, perhaps moreso (as a survey that admits its potential biases is more honest than one that omits/obscures them).

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6936&context=jclc

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hedgetank t1_j9d0ggr wrote

And yet there are other studies that come to similar conclusions. The fact is that we can't say for sure because there's no way to accurately track the events objectively, and that means the situation can be skewed to make it look like the events are extremely rare (which gun control orgs do), or extremely common (which gun rights groups do).

The raw statistical probability just based on population, prevalence of guns, and general crime rates alone would put the figure somewhere in the middle, much higher than the low estimates used to suggest defensive use of firearms is extremely rare.

Until there's an objective way to measure a subjective event like this, the best we can do is to use self reported data, news reports (e.g. /r/dgu), and statistical analysis to come up with a rough estimate range of possible rates.

It neither proves nor disprove the study in question, but it does get more accurate than biased oversimplifications.

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GoAwayStupidAI t1_j9b5mje wrote

I want to note the person you asked replied with a Wikipedia page. This is interesting cause: pedantically this is not a source of that statistic - the source is the study the Wikipedia page references.

Which - there is no study from the FBI. (Afaict) The intended stat appears to be from a 1990s study which predicts differently than observed. With some particularly damning data from 2015.

Additionally, there are two interesting notes

A "survey about firearms and suicide completed by 150 firearms researchers found that only 8% of firearm researchers agreed that 'In the United States, guns are used in self-defense far more often than they are used in crime'."

"the FBI reported that guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every defensive ("justifiable") homicide."

Which seems like important context for the usual discussions that stat comes up in.

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Aldervale t1_j9axlaf wrote

Ok sure but guns kill 2 million people a year. So that math just doesn't check out.

See how easy it is to just make shit up?

−51

WanderingPickles t1_j9bh1cr wrote

2 million people are shot to death every year?

In 2019 ~250k died via gunshot in the entire world. Of those, 71% (globally) are intentional homicides. 21% are suicides and 8% are accidental.

In the US the mix is a little different. The US yearly figure is around 40k deaths by gunshot. Of those, ~59% are suicide.

The suicide bit is really fascinating/worrisome. Combined it with other forms of suicide and “deaths of despair” and it becomes quite clear that we have a problem in the US. Vast numbers of people have no hope, are suffering some sort of disorder where suicide is the only way out in the midst of a crisis.

It is deeply disturbing.

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Modsblogoats t1_j9b1bh9 wrote

Fox news manages to make shit up 24/7 without breaking a sweat. Burn before reading.

−19

TrumpterOFyvie t1_j9aqjpd wrote

Stabbing has always freaked me out since the Billy Batts murder scene in Goodfellas. Yuck yuck yuck. I would have shot this piece of shit too. Knifings are one of the worst ways to go.

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hedgetank t1_j9c1ckz wrote

not so cool story, bro: Back when I was 22, I was working for an IT company that was setting up computers and such for a Boys and Girls Club in a very not so nice part of town.

I had been working late to wrap things up and get ready for pre-opening testing, and was in the process of hauling empty computer boxes out to my car when a group of 3 folks noticed me and decided they wanted to make some extra cash.

The three guys jumped me and started beating on me, then when they figured out the boxes were empty decided to have a little fun instead.

40 stab wounds and multiple deep lacerations later, including one that was only a couple of millimeters from spilling my guts (thank the gods I'm chunky), I was left to lay in a pool of my own blood.

It was another hour or so before someone passed by and bothered to call 911.

I ended up looking like Dr. Weir at the end of Event Horizon (though I still had my eyes).

No way for me to fight back at the time, and between infection, loss of blood, etc. I was lucky I didn't die. The time in the hospital and everything else was hell.

Between that, having had run-ins with a few meth heads that frequented a park near my company's offices, and going to some viking-themed events and dealing with legit nazis that showed up and got quite upset that we didn't want them there...yeah, this is why I'm generally afraid of people. Also why I strongly believe in firearms for self defense.

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GuntherSpiermen t1_j9ctntl wrote

Stories like this ensure that I'll never go outside past 6 PM and never venture into an urban area.

−9

2014justin t1_j9c52no wrote

Defensive Gun uses happen every day in this country. People should learn firearm proficiency and safety. If you're gonna carry, you better be well-trained. The criminal element hates a well-armed populace.

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Atralis t1_j9bjdpv wrote

Thank you Union City Neighbor.

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Ok_Inevitable8498 t1_j9beiti wrote

Well, with police doing less and less to be there when needed, I can just see this turning (not only in red areas, but everywhere in the U.S.) into every adult carrying a gun in order to deter crime. The Wild West is coming sooner than I ever expected.

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VentusHermetis t1_j9df1qb wrote

> with police doing less and less to be there when needed

Lol. Police don't teleport to the scenes of crimes. How did you think this worked?

−3

hedgetank t1_j9bzycd wrote

Wait wait wait. I was assured that a good guy with a gun never stops a bad guy. I was assured of this.

/sarcasm
//good on this guy. Fuck the attacker.

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Hishui92 t1_j9b97de wrote

Fingers crossed that the attempted killer's family doesn't sue the good guy with a gun into bankruptcy.

This is America after all.

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ForgotMyOldLoginInfo t1_j9bruax wrote

> attempted

"Police said one of the women died after the stabbing."

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Hishui92 t1_j9c4zlk wrote

On the one hand... Fuck.

On the other hand, I hope that helps his defense. Or at least scares away the scummier lawyers from trying to exploit this guy.

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doctorfugazi t1_j9bcynf wrote

So just out of curiosity, grounds could the family sue?

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Hishui92 t1_j9bj1xx wrote

Wrongful death. Weird as it sounds, he may be protected from prosecution but not from lawsuits.

Certainly ain't right, but ain't uncommon.

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aj_ramone t1_j9bmj43 wrote

There have been families blaming homeowners for killing their sons and brothers etc. Y'know, for the small misdemeanor of armed home invasion.

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Valyrian_Kobolds t1_j9bi3wd wrote

I mean they could file a suit but it wouldn't go anywhere.

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Hishui92 t1_j9bj7a5 wrote

Even if it didn't, it opens him up to discovery. And if he can't afford a lawyer...

Well there are plenty of scummy lawyers that can make a nonexistent case go somewhere.

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I_can_get_you_off t1_j9euxp8 wrote

Lawyers aren’t going to want to sue this guy unless he has insurance. Insurance will pay his Legal defense costs. That’s how this works. I find it unlikely he’ll be sued by the family of a murderer who he stopped from killing a second person

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Valyrian_Kobolds t1_j9bjopz wrote

Very few people have the money to push a SLAPP lawsuit

−3

Hishui92 t1_j9bk3r5 wrote

Lawyer gets a cut of the settlement.

Perhaps you didn't understand, they will make a case out of a nonexistent one. And if the defendant can't afford a lawyer, they'll likely lose.

Edit Apparently they deleted their reply or just blocked me. But to address what the notification window says they said... Does my own father count as dealing with a lawyer?

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JeepNaked t1_j9ebn4t wrote

Nice to see a DGU story make it to the front page.

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ArrrGaming t1_j9gr233 wrote

Please be sure to link this when the next comment calls for banning all guns.

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[deleted] t1_j9ba7ck wrote

[removed]

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aj_ramone t1_j9be7v7 wrote

Imagine being this sheltered lmao.

Deleted like the hermit you are. Get outside man.

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AggieBoiler t1_j9bgwyi wrote

They posted on average every ~25 minutes this past week. I think they're more than sheltered.

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aj_ramone t1_j9blqkr wrote

Terminally online, tells everyone else what to do lmaooooo.

Dude needs to touch grass, and know a woman's love.

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TheAGolds t1_j9bbn8m wrote

Tell that to the people protecting people of power, a luxury us common citizens cannot afford.

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dantesdad t1_j9b5ktm wrote

It’s Fox, but it’s local. Are they lying to you? Probably not… but it’s still Fox so you always have to wonder. That’s why Fox is so fun!!! You always have to wonder if a story is being twisted for some partisan agenda.

−47

aj_ramone t1_j9bmnq4 wrote

You don't know what an affiliate is yet you just gotta have some noise fall out of your face hole.

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