IMHO it would only be a "thing" if people outside of Vermont knew what it was. So, no. Same with "creemees."

I don't know if I'd characterize 64% as "strongly" on a binary vote, especially when it's only a 16 point bump from the repeal vote 11 years earlier. And these threads are directly proving my point that a lot of proponents of the system weren't around in 2009.

I really doubt it was the same people. Enough time had passed that people either forgot, or weren't around the first time. Otherwise it wouldn't have taken 12 years (and they wouldn't have limited it to city councilors).

2009. As I've said, they were over the top in their education efforts, especially the Progs because it benefited them the most. But it's always going to be confusing to the American electorate no matter what you do, that was very clear. "Go to x polling place on y date and vote for your favorite" is about as complicated as a lot of people are ever going to be able to handle.

I saw what happened when Burlington tried very hard to educate the electorate about IRV and failed. It was only more obvious in that case because we ended up with a second Bob Kiss term, when it was obvious to most people that he was an utter disaster as mayor; but I'm sure that every similar election has people inadvertently voting for someone they don't actually like.

Yes I understand, but what I'm saying is that a lot of the votes in that 52% were from people who were confused about the process and absolutely did not want Kiss to be the mayor.

That's the problem, a lot of people didn't know that they could do that. I know it all seems very simple to you but ask anyone who was in Burlington at the time, it was a total nightmare.

Well Bob Kiss won with 30% of the vote using IRV.

"At least with RCV, you guarantee that 50% of the voters think the winner is at least tolerable."No, you do not guarantee that. The night Kiss won, there was a elderly woman on the news saying that she thought she had to vote for every candidate in a preferred order. Her vote ended up going for Kiss, and that literally drove her to tears.

It seems like something that would be very easy to educate people on, but short of sending people out to everyone's homes and sitting with them until you're 100% sure they understand, that just isn't ever going to happen. If you'd been there, you'd know that Burlington really, really, REALLY tried to educate people, and it just didn't work.

You can require a majority and have a series of separate runoffs. Then you can be sure that every vote cast was intentional. With IRV etc. that will never be the case, which is why Burlington ditched it.

The problem is that no municipality is going to train people for a voting system that they plan to implement in 20 years when they're old enough to vote.

A series of runoffs with separate dates seems like a pain in the ass, but at least you can be 100% sure that every vote cast was intentional.

The downside is that people don't understand it and inadvertently vote for people they don't like. That's what happened in Burlington. I know that seems amazing because the concept is relatively simple, but a lot of people just don't get it and never will.

People may not like this but they're right. This was an embarrassing failure in Burlington.

Was no one here a resident of Burlington when Bob Kiss got a second term? People were furious because the electorate ABSOLUTELY did not want him to get a second term, he got in because of mass confusion about the way the system worked. This was extensively documented at the time.

"Manchester VT to Manchester NH"

The heroin express

It's fucking insane that a factual, level headed comment like this gets so many downvotes.

If we (ie. the US) invest billions of dollars in this kind of project, IT WILL NOT INVOLVE BURLINGTON. Burlington is small and poor. There is very little high-dollar industry in or around Burlington. There is no conceivable reason to build an approaching-trillion-dollar rail line to accommodate it.

Yes, because money isn't a thing.

You know there are only ~40K people in Burlington, and that its median income is only ~$21K, right?

It's fun to have fun but this is about as likely as "suppose you could sprout wings and fly"

Paying far less for the same groceries is pretty much the opposite of depressing to me