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ShihPoosRule t1_ir16dah wrote

As they should. China is arguably America’s greatest economic, geopolitical and ideological adversary.

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__Cypher_Legate__ t1_ir1wymt wrote

And they are also prolific tech thieves who steal IP from not only the US, but Russia, and who knows where else. It’s understandable why when you consider the expertise and man-hours that go into the designs, and the fact that China is a manufacturing hub for most places in the world.

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Xw5838 t1_ir2eehk wrote

Always interesting when people mention this not realizing that Europe literally only developed to the level that they did because of the tech they received from China by way of the Mongols and Arab civilizations who both invaded Europe. Without which they would have remained a backwards continent for centuries longer.

Tech such as Guns and Gunpowder

Paper

The printing press

The wheelbarrow

The compass

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Elite_Valkyrijn t1_ir2mktp wrote

Yes quite interesting when a top dog doesn’t want to be out competed and become little dog.

Truly interesting how it works like that. Can’t comprehend why it be that way.

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__Cypher_Legate__ t1_ir6cqja wrote

I'm talking about the modern era where we don't justify current actions based on history that happened hundreds or thousands of years ago.

Honestly, I personally don't have a problem with globalization, but a company might be hesitant to have millions of dollars worth of R&D appropriated by their competitors, and a country might be hesitant to have it's tech advantage taken and mass produced by weapons manufacturers loyal to their adversaries. The US government isn't really thinking about how 700 years ago Europe got the knowledge about gunpowder from China. Currently, it is well known that lots of Chinese tech is based on designs by foreign inventors which was not lawfully obtained, so it makes perfect sense why the US would want to restrict or slow this process for their own interests.

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TheRobberPanda t1_ir2vdfm wrote

How much social credit do they give you to post these comments?

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I_C_Weaner t1_ir386bk wrote

Go easy, friend - he may be trying to get one of his friends out of a Uyghur concentration camp. Or maybe he's trying to be able to take the bus again.

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Ok_Cantaloupe_7423 t1_ir1869p wrote

Easy to do when you have a billion people who many of which are used as literal slaves

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JebusLives42 t1_ir30b0r wrote

What a horrific view of the world.

Hoarding technology to ensure it is not used to improve people's lives.. unless we profit from it.

How self serving. This attitude towards technology and medicine is disgusting. For shame.

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jnemesh t1_ir3229z wrote

What is really horrific is how uneducated some of these comments are...when a simple google search could clue you in on exactly what the CCP has been doing to deserve such sanctions.

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JebusLives42 t1_ir361kz wrote

Pray tell, what horrible atocities is the CCP doing?

Using medical technology to cure the sick?

Deploying mobile payment systems with speed and penetration that makes Americans jealous?

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[deleted] t1_ir3kkzn wrote

[deleted]

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JebusLives42 t1_ir3tmmd wrote

Would you suggest that the country that elected Trump is a more appropriate model for how to do things?

>everything we buy from them is made by slave children

.. I suppose you're implying that America is the good guy in this equation? Looks like two very shitty guys to me.

−5

Hot-mic t1_ir39evi wrote

  • Using tech for weapons development
  • Attempting to end democracies
  • Supporting an authoritarian government with a lifelong ruler
  • Using slave labor
  • Attempting usurpation of South China Sea
  • Allying itself with Russia
  • Undermining human rights globally
  • Building a surveillance state Yes, I know they're not the only ones, but they have one ruler that can't be voted out, thus they'll unlikely change for the better as they have no better half to vote in.
1

JebusLives42 t1_ir3gcgs wrote

>Yes, I know they're not the only ones

You can take every single point above and apply it to America, a couple of them require a simple word substitution.

  • Using tech for weapons development
  • Attempting to end install democracies
  • Supporting Creating an authoritarian government with a lifelong ruler, then killing said ruler 25 years later.
  • Using slave labor
  • Attempting usurpation of South China Sea earth
  • Allying itself with Russia
  • Undermining human rights globally
  • Building a surveillance state
−1

Hot-mic t1_irgqfvo wrote

Yep, you can take every point - except voting and having a two party political system and no social credit authority. I can talk shit about my government and they can't do shit. Fuck Xi - can they they say that without repercussions?

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curious_s t1_ir3i1na wrote

>Using tech for weapons development

I'd like to know how you do weapons development without technology.

​

>Attempting to end democracies

Which democracies? You mean Taiwan, Hong Kong? These are Chinese territories, The US has no say over how China runs its own country.

​

>Supporting an authoritarian government with a lifelong ruler

The US has no say over how China runs its own country.

​

>Using slave labor

Even if this is true, what has it got to do with technology? Also, slave labour, dude glass houses and stones.

​

>Attempting usurpation of South China Sea

Are these companies 'usurping' the South China Sea, which is claimed by China and many other regional nations. Are the other nations in the South China Sea conflict getting technology companies sanctioned?

​

>Allying itself with Russia

So countries are not allowed to choose allies that you disagree with? Why is that?

​

>Undermining human rights globally

What? How exactly?

​

>Building a surveillance state Yes, I know they're not the only ones, but they have one ruler that can't be voted out, thus they'll unlikely change for the better as they have no better half to vote in.

I like your proof here, it is as good as CNN with just blatant statements with nothing to back them up.

−6

WallStreetDoesntBet OP t1_ir10v77 wrote

A number of Chinese firms, government research labs and other entities are expected to face restrictions similar to Huawei, according to two people with knowledge of the plans.

In effect, any firm that uses American-made technologies would be blocked from selling to the Chinese entities that are targeted by the administration. It’s not yet clear which Chinese firms and labs would be affected.

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ThisElder_Millennial t1_ir275mj wrote

They'll be blocked from buying, selling, or engaging in any sort of relationship. Not only for US firms, but for all businesses and organizations around the world moving forward. This is how the Entity List works; if you get on it, you're cut out of the US market. Anyone who violates that also gets cut out of the US market. We're using these same exact tools against the Ruskies right now.

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RobbieQuarantino t1_ir3j86q wrote

How exactly would something like this even be enforced?

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ThisElder_Millennial t1_ir56ntl wrote

The US govt has offices with investigators all around the world.

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RobbieQuarantino t1_ir63ezy wrote

Yea but it seems they would be investigating after the fact, which wouldn't necessarily block the transfer of tech

0

ThisElder_Millennial t1_ir65k2c wrote

Well, it's no different than any other law. Shit gets put on the books and if its broken, an investigation after the fact happens. Assuming they're guilty, punishments ensue.

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regalrecaller t1_ir1jknv wrote

Oh cool just 20 years too late. Oh cool just 20 years too late. Oh cool just 20 years too late. Oh cool just 20 years too late. Oh cool just 20 years too late. Oh cool just 20 years too late. Oh cool just 20 years too late.

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Demosthenes3 t1_ir4c85m wrote

Came here to comment the same. It’s already all been transferred. Seems too late

1

ethanace t1_ir4udqi wrote

You can’t win, if you give them tech, you lose, if you restrict tech to the point where they are forced to improve their own tech and become less reliant on you, you also lose

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arvigeus t1_ir59bif wrote

By the time they catch up, you'd be few generations ahead.

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YetAnotherWTFMoment t1_ir5rtx7 wrote

Ten years ago...twenty years ago...that would have been a safe bet.

The technology gap between the US and China keeps getting narrower.

I can see parity within the next decade.

China has been putting massive resources on a vertical scale to run at the same speed as more advanced countries for decades, while we're standing around whining about pronouns and getting professors fired for being too hard (recent NYU case, Maitland Jones Jr.).

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ovirt001 t1_ir7xjxz wrote

They've just gotten better at copying/stealing. China has already peaked and has zero chance of legitimately catching up.

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YetAnotherWTFMoment t1_ir7zhmq wrote

...and you say this because?

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ovirt001 t1_ir7zyfa wrote

You seem to be under the impression that China has the capacity to actually catch up and beat the west.

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YetAnotherWTFMoment t1_ir8jxk5 wrote

https://cset.georgetown.edu/publication/china-is-fast-outpacing-u-s-stem-phd-growth/

I said parity, not beat. Please pay attention.

They simply have the power of numbers working in their favour right now.

They have the technological base because we gave it to them.

They have the people to run all of it because they graduate engineers and other tech nerds by the boatload, and many of them are western educated.

The only spark they're missing is a dysfunctional capital markets system that allows $$ to finance crazy stupid ideas.

BTW, nice deflection/no answer to my query.

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pretendperson t1_irar3y1 wrote

they don’t have any equipment nor capacity to produce EUV chips, period. Their photolithography capabilities without US tech is decades behind.

1

YetAnotherWTFMoment t1_irbq7p6 wrote

You mean without ASML.

It's a global economy, they buy whatever they need from whoever makes it.

The US doesn't have an EUV company.

The Dutch do.

1

pretendperson t1_irc4sj2 wrote

I do mean ASML for the photolithography equipment, installation, and maintenance. ASML does a LOT of business with US corporations and the US government and will be bound by the same rules.

And the Dutch don't control the lion's share of advanced EUV fabs; the US does.

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YetAnotherWTFMoment t1_irfjj3o wrote

The US is trying to influence ASML to restrict sales of equipment to China.

A) Good luck with that.

B) Bad idea.

C) The irony that Donald Trump was the first one to start railing against China, got shelled for it, and yet today, China bashing is okay. What kind of fucked up foreign/economic policy does the US have?

D) Lion's share of advanced EUV fabs...well, yes, you're right, US customers dominate the order book. But that can change. $$$ talks.

0

ovirt001 t1_irerwvz wrote

> They simply have the power of numbers working in their favour right now.

Not anymore, their working-age population started declining in 2015 and overall population as early as 2020.

> They have the technological base because we gave it to them.

They still have to import all critical technologies.
Zhaoxin uses Via designs (which are based on Cyrix designs).
The Sunway chips are based on the DEC-Alpha.
Hygon licensed AMD's Xen architecture.
The recent "Chinese" GPUs use stolen IP from AMD and Nvidia.
HiSilicon used barely-modified ARM designs.
EspressIf uses Tensilica designs.
SMIC can't reliably build on modern process nodes.
HSMC failed.
Thousands of other Chinese chip companies have failed.

> They have the people to run all of it because they graduate engineers and other tech nerds by the boatload, and many of them are western educated.

Look at youth unemployment numbers in China, those who aren't burnt out are giving up.

> The only spark they're missing is a dysfunctional capital markets system that allows $$ to finance crazy stupid ideas.

Getting money for anything in tech in China has been trivial for the last 10 years, it's why you see a hundred copies of dumb ideas all over sites like Ali Express.

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FuturologyBot t1_ir16mrr wrote

The following submission statement was provided by /u/WallStreetDoesntBet:

A number of Chinese firms, government research labs and other entities are expected to face restrictions similar to Huawei, according to two people with knowledge of the plans.

In effect, any firm that uses American-made technologies would be blocked from selling to the Chinese entities that are targeted by the administration. It’s not yet clear which Chinese firms and labs would be affected.

Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/xvib9e/us_plans_new_limits_on_tech_sent_to_chinese_firms/ir10v77/

1

Big_Forever5759 t1_ir2cmf9 wrote

Cant they just buy it here. They just need one to make a copy.

1

anengineerandacat t1_ir2xbzk wrote

Tech is a bit harder to just copy, you need to be cheap in the right areas not just on the whole thing.

Then you generally need to be able to innovate on top of said copy else you risk being behind again.

5

ThisElder_Millennial t1_ir577ta wrote

Depends on the technology in question. Large companies have compliance offices that actively work to prevent sales to folks for whom it may be illegal. But if they do buy it here and attempt to ship things abroad, that's when the FBI gets involved. Admittedly, it's like trying to hand cup water and plenty invariably gets through, but we do catch some of it. In cases where we know a person got it here when they shouldn't have, the govt goes after the seller/provider and forces them to up their game or face financial penalties.

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CranjusMcBasketball6 t1_ir4ccjj wrote

The move would come as part of a broader U.S. effort to thwart Beijing’s plans to dominate key emerging technologies, and it would mark a significant escalation in the Trump administration’s campaign against Chinese tech giant Huawei Technologies Co.

The administration is also considering measures to prevent U.S. chipmakers from using Chinese-made equipment to produce chips for the U.S. military, the people said.

The U.S. is right to be concerned about Chinese companies getting access to technologies that enable high-performance computing. This is a key area of emerging technology that could give China a major advantage in the future. The U.S. should take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that its companies are not at a disadvantage.

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OhMyGodTheyKilledBri t1_ism6nmj wrote

Because China looks at every relationship as an opportunity to help advance China. Currently, if I buy from a company that has a plant in Germany but is based in China, I have to assume that any technical info I send Germany will end up in China and there will be 6 competitors next month who now have access to my proprietary work. We benefit from China’s cheap labor but long term we are playing a game we cannot win. They have used our technical advances to make leaps and bounds. We’re spending billions in the US in R&D for China to use it for essentially free against ourselves.

1

buzzonga t1_ir3ye1r wrote

Awesome to hear that they got that barn door locked up nice and tight.

−1

Wilddog73 t1_ir3r8t2 wrote

Yeah, I sure wouldn't want them getting rainbow technology.

−2

tekhead09 t1_ir1bulm wrote

Disclaimer this plan wont go in to affect til 2040.

−3

Yumewomiteru t1_ir1f848 wrote

China will remember this, once China overtakes the US in technology it won't be pretty for the US.

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[deleted] t1_ir2827c wrote

[removed]

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Yumewomiteru t1_ir2b2za wrote

LOL, the illegitimate ROC regime exiled to Taipei was so terrible for China that they lost the civil war when they had all the advantage. The ROC had their chance and messed up completely, China is now prosperous and powerful without them.

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ThisElder_Millennial t1_ir2bywd wrote

>China is now prosperous and powerful without them.

If you feel so strongly that way, tell President Pooh Bear to stay out of the Taiwanese territory. They like their liberty and don't have to worry about social credit scores, being forcibly contained in their apartments for months at end over a nonsensical zero-Covid policy, or worrying that if they speak ill of their government, they'll be sent out to a PRC concentration camp. If you like your authoritarian daddy state, stay the fuck there. The free world doesn't want you.

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Yumewomiteru t1_ir2ljk4 wrote

Taiwan is a part of China as agreed upon by every country in the world. You can believe whatever bullshit you want, it doesn't matter one bit.

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OutOfBananaException t1_ir4992f wrote

It would happen either way. China sanctions countries for far less, it's a foregone conclusion they wouldn't be sharing any technology that threatens their dominance. Doubly so if the US in this alternate reality was making noises to replace the CCP led world order, do you think that would not be met with a response?

1

Yumewomiteru t1_ir7a1h4 wrote

Nice projection, had the US not try to actively stifle China's innovation there would be no reason for China to not work with the US. China is not an ideologist nation trying to export Communism to every country, that is the US with Capitalism.

1

OutOfBananaException t1_ir9rvkb wrote

>had the US not try to actively stifle China's innovation there would be no reason for China to not work with the US

Incorrect, China sanctioned Australia for merely mentioning that the origins of COVID should be investigated. Sanctioned Lithuania for allowing a Taiwanese embassy. What do you think they would do if a credible threat to their power base was identified?

1

Ok-disaster2022 t1_ir1m5ar wrote

China lacks the real innovative spark for new technologies. They may acquire it in the next generation or so, but it would require more individualistic freedom. In either case in a generation or so China will be overtaken by India anyway.

By innovative spark, look at the country who won the most Nobel prizes in the last century: the US. Look at all the technologies that didnt exist until an American invented it. Heck, you're on an American website built on American designed telecom system probably on a device that uses American designed chips and an American designed operating system. It's made in other countries because it's cheaper for American companies to do so. But it's also important to acknowledge America is so innovative because compared to virtually every other country in the world, America is accepting of outsiders of new ideas and is the great American melting pot. America has plenty of problems with race and cultural clashes, but every other nation is xenophobic in comparison, especially Asian countries like China.

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Yumewomiteru t1_ir1mp9n wrote

> In either case in a generation or so China will be overtaken by India anyway.

This narrative has been going on since forever, what do you use in every day life that is made by an Indian company? Meanwhile Chinese companies like Tik Tok, Lenovo, Mihoyo with Genshin Impact, etc. have already became household names in the west. Being blind to facts to push your own biases is not rational.

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Longjumping_Kale1 t1_ir1op8w wrote

Yes the OP is just commenting useless drivel, India will be a great nation of its own accord and it's unrelated to how badly the West is insisting on fucking up relations with China.

4

OutOfBananaException t1_ir4a326 wrote

The world will be a better place with a strong India. However you cannot assign all the blame to the west for messing up relations with China, with such hostile diplomacy coming out of China, really what did they expect?

1

pretendperson t1_irarybh wrote

India is a bit supporter of russia and has a lot of military coordination with them.

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Little_Froggy t1_ir2cu8q wrote

Yeah, I haven't understood why people speak this narrative so much. Of course China had to play catch-up for awhile, but that never meant that it's citizens were somehow incapable of innovation. In fact, due to their patent laws being so lax (afaik, I may be misinformed here), companies are forced to constantly innovate in order to keep their products in the most desirable place on the market rather than relying on a 10 year patent stifling any sort of competition around one particular product for them.

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OGRESHAVELAYERz t1_ir253jg wrote

India will never overtake China lol

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Hot-mic t1_ir39woc wrote

China will likely screw itself and no outside involvement will be necessary. Once technology moves ahead of them and they can't copy any more, they'll be falling behind as they have for the last 1000 years. Rigid dictatorships are fragile things in the end.

2

ZapataRojo t1_ir2981d wrote

Man you're all brainwashed by the CIA, all of you ready to serve and fight in the upcoming wars in the name of freedom and democracy, huh?

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ThisElder_Millennial t1_ir2cbzc wrote

Ukrainians are doing that right now. Young Iranians are also taking part. Some things are worth fighting and dying for, like freedom and democracy.

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UniqueName39 t1_ir4tlnt wrote

Chinese media leads me to believe China is only interested in a monoculture.

3