Submitted by Gari_305 t3_zuynap in Futurology
Comments
herdarkdeath t1_j1nudlc wrote
China has no hope of doing anything. The depth of their innovative ability is far too poor, to surmount all the challenges of space faring. China's government and economic system just doesnt create sufficient incentive or accountability for astronauts to feel safe. All the Chinese astronauts (like the Russian astronauts), know their tech is unreliable and pretty crappy. They just put on a brave face. Then they die horribly.
America definitely has its flaws (Columbia and Challenger), but the American system is far more accountable and open. Also, Xi Jinping will have to go through a roughly 5 year period of alzheimers, and he isn't going to resign. So China's tech is largely stuck during that decade.
ruferant t1_j1o5xfa wrote
Honestly the best thing I've read today. 'Ministry of truth' level deadpan delivery.
LittleBirdyLover t1_j1o189g wrote
You know that despite all this baseless rhetoric, China’s crewed space program is the only one out of them that hasn’t lost an astronaut in space despite your claims of “poor accountability” and being “pretty crappy”?
lobsterhunterer t1_j1pkc4n wrote
I wouldn't bother wasting much time on him. A few hours after he wrote this he proceeded to rant about "shitty asians" and the "shitty things asians do" on another subreddit.
LittleBirdyLover t1_j1pws6l wrote
Lmao he was just banned.
XFun16 t1_j1xt9n3 wrote
Technically speaking, no astronaut has died in space since Soyuz 11 in 1971
planko13 t1_j1o5bwp wrote
I don't know if I share your lack of confidence in the Chinese space Agency. While I agree, they are objectively behind the USA right now, but their pace of improvement exceeds ours.
They have their own functioning space station and growing launch capability. If it wasn't for SpaceX the US would be squarely in second place.
All I was saying with my comment is that the engineers at NASA are world class, and if congress would stop dictating the "how" on space exploration and instead stick to a consistent "what" we should be able to maintain our healthy technological lead in space.
We need political incentive for NASA to do something besides just being a jobs program in various representatives districts.
ovirt001 t1_j1wc7rx wrote
This is what happens when you can use modern consumer technology to do 60 year old things. There's no "miraculous catching up", anyone with enough money and resources can do what China is doing (in fact, Musk is doing better with less).
Merky600 t1_j1nxlws wrote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Amendment
“The Wolf Amendment is a law passed by the United States Congress in 2011 that prohibits the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) from using government funds to engage in direct, bilateral cooperation with the Chinese government and China-affiliated organizations from its activities without explicit authorization from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Congress.[1][2][3][4][5] It has been inserted annually into appropriations bills since then.“
Gari_305 OP t1_j1lzewf wrote
From the Article
>The overarching ambition is to make China one of the world’s main aerospace powers by 2030 and become a fully comprehensive space power by 2045. CASC, ranked 322 in this year’s Fortune 500 list, has previously stated plans to make China a global leader in space technology by 2045, a focus seen by some as a challenge to the U.S.
Also form the article
>In terms of nearer-term goals, Wu Yansheng stated plans for a crewed lunar landing by 2030, establishing the International Lunar Research Station (ILRS) in the 2030s, following three Chang’e robotic landing missions during this decade. China is however seeking partnerships for the IRLS, which will be developed alongside and separate to the U.S. Artemis program.
No_Bet_1687 t1_j1njel7 wrote
Good luck with that! Let’s see how those plans are shaping up after we move pass the global economic crisis we seem to be heading to in 2023.
zanzabarism t1_j1mzg06 wrote
That’s pretty broad. Not clear at all.
FuturologyBot t1_j1m2j8s wrote
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305:
From the Article
>The overarching ambition is to make China one of the world’s main aerospace powers by 2030 and become a fully comprehensive space power by 2045. CASC, ranked 322 in this year’s Fortune 500 list, has previously stated plans to make China a global leader in space technology by 2045, a focus seen by some as a challenge to the U.S.
Also form the article
>In terms of nearer-term goals, Wu Yansheng stated plans for a crewed lunar landing by 2030, establishing the International Lunar Research Station (ILRS) in the 2030s, following three Chang’e robotic landing missions during this decade. China is however seeking partnerships for the IRLS, which will be developed alongside and separate to the U.S. Artemis program.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/zuynap/china_sets_out_clear_and_independent_longterm/j1lzewf/
[deleted] t1_j1mkv4o wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1n1wn4 wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1o202v wrote
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pixelastronaut t1_j1ozfvn wrote
Congress needs to triple NASA’s budget every 4 years until it is on par with DOD spending
BoopityBoopi t1_j1nc7a6 wrote
Probably xenophobic but I just don’t trust anything they say so I expect the worst from their space program
pressedbread t1_j1nilwm wrote
Their screwy political system makes them actually great at long-term planning, so I'd pay attention.
CrimsonBolt33 t1_j1p0kii wrote
No it doesn't at all...Not sure why this myth keeps getting spread
ovirt001 t1_j1wch6z wrote
A combination of stupid people, bots, and wumao.
BoopityBoopi t1_j1njae8 wrote
We better pay attention because I fear they might be building weapons in space or experimenting on some unethical stuff off world.
RoyalCrown-cola t1_j1nmpcu wrote
The first post wasn't really xenophobic cause there are legitimate reasons not to trust the CCP at face value, but this post definitely was. It's just baseless fear mongering.
pressedbread t1_j1nvxqc wrote
Xenophobia is a weird way to frame this, I hope that this person isn't simply upset that china exists wtf. China is an amazing country!
Chinese Communist Party is about as shady as America's CIA. So I'd just be watchful based on what we have seen in the past. Another country with a world-class military industrial complex.
Anyway, any pure science research which will be significant with space travel will create new scientific knowledge that could be used to make new medicines or life-changing technology just as easily as other technology that creates more war and conflict on the home planet.
Science will always be in tension with creation and destruction.
RoyalCrown-cola t1_j1o2wie wrote
I hope so too.
The problem I see in alot of posts in not just this sub but in other similar subreddits like r/space and rNASA, that any time there is a post about the Chinese Space Program (or anything really related to China) there is a flood of very sinophobic rhetoric that kind of just derails the discussion from the original topic. You can criticize and voice your concerns about one thing and still be able to acknowledge that something was done right or they are doing something cool on another. It seems people have trouble separating their feelings towards the CCP versus basically anything else that has to do with China.
skraddleboop t1_j1ophel wrote
> Chinese Communist Party is about as shady as America's CIA.
CCP bot says what?
Last I checked, the CIA wasn't doing "gain of function" research and releasing pandemics on the world, nor committing genocide nor getting rich off slave labor.
BoopityBoopi t1_j1nmz3j wrote
The way they run their country (social credit system and treatment of political dissidents) and the now-confirmed slave labour camps have China approaching Nazi Germany territory. Holy crap this sub is blindingly optimistic. I guess if we ever meet in a refugee camp in the future you can tell me I was right.
Zemirolha t1_j1o7u4c wrote
If you live in US and you are poor, you have some chance facing forced work on prision or being killed by state too.
BoopityBoopi t1_j1ofd5v wrote
It’s Christmas so I’m going to remain civil but are we seriously comparing levels of freedom between China and the US?
Zemirolha t1_j1wqua5 wrote
they keep improving
BoopityBoopi t1_j1wvp17 wrote
The lives and rights of Black people in the US keep improving? Definitely. The lives and rights of Chinese people in China? Nosediving
Zemirolha t1_j1zcgip wrote
Dude, you really have fayth
https://www.newsweek.com/americans-can-now-expect-live-three-years-less-cubans-1739507
BoopityBoopi t1_j205h54 wrote
Not Faith, facts. Life expectancy is low in the US because people eat garbage food and don’t take care of themselves willingly. Spoiler alert: I don’t even live in the US and with all the gun violence and mental health issues, I don’t really want to visit anytime soon so you’ve got it wrong if you think I’m an American that is out here touting how awesome the US is versus China. China’s problems are deep rooted and very difficult to deal with, similar to places like Africa and Russia. Political and religious freedom Is very important to me and others. At least in democratic countries you can see a path to improvement, but in places where the government is corrupt top to bottom and people are being imprisoned for their thoughts, it’s hard to imagine how to improve it without a bloody revolution.
gayporNNNN t1_j1ohgtv wrote
the black population have it much worse than the uighurs, feels bad man.
OutOfBananaException t1_j1pcdjg wrote
Can you cite any legal challenges made by Uighurs in China? This is one of the core issues, when someone is mistreated there appears to be no recourse, or even the facade of recourse. Lawyers have faced punishment for even challenging the state.
BoopityBoopi t1_j1ru7dw wrote
He isn’t going to cite anything, he’s already gone into the wind because the booze wore off I guess. How the hell do he consider the residuals of black slavery in the US worse than actual communist rule with giant concentration camps? What a zero.
BoopityBoopi t1_j1oi2qa wrote
Ehhh well they have definitely had a rough ride but… Hard to compare it to 1,000,000+ in a labour camp. Open the hearing opposing viewpoint
Zemirolha t1_j1o7huw wrote
More unethical than capitalism?
skraddleboop t1_j1opc9s wrote
CCP bots downvoting your comment.
hacklez t1_j1n3gz0 wrote
I think they have it all figured out. They are smart,,, smarter than the Americans ever can be.
randomlyexact t1_j1mm10y wrote
And they can't even make a functional Covid vaccine.
backcountrydrifter t1_j1mgh1l wrote
Without a microprocessor supply chain all of Xi’s galactic ambitions are in lockdown.
Even with it, communism is going to hold him back too much. Governance by decree is a pretty terrible way to run a space program.
If you put one person loyal to the party in charge on the moon or mars and then have to wait for the party to make decisions with the lag/delay of asking for permission from xi it will inevitably turn into a problem.
Life comes at you fast. It comes at your exponentially faster in space.
I’m relatively certain Covid, xi pinning his entire CCP platform to him performance against Covid, and the subsequent years of lockdowns, economic pain, and disparity with the rest of the world will cause enough discontent to kill his ambitions internally.
The world is at a precipice of revolution.
Utxi4m t1_j1mgvfr wrote
>Without a microprocessor supply chain all of Xi’s galactic ambitions are in lockdown.
What part(s) of space exploration needs sub 7nm chips?
>Life comes at you fast. It comes at your exponentially faster in space.
While that indeed is a valid point, the Chinese approach seems a tad more agile than trying to get Congress aboard with changes in real time.
backcountrydrifter t1_j1mnt50 wrote
It’s not a nationalist thing for me. It’s that the Russian coolant leak at the international space station is a pretty good example that there is no nationality in space. There are just astronauts.
As a species we are far too interconnected at this point for China to have any real unilateral ambitions without cooperation with the rest.
Congress is no solution. They are effectively dead in the water as well.
As a species we are quickly approaching the point where we either do the same predictable shit of world wars, greed , and control… or we learn how to cooperate enough to become an interplanetary species before we finally extinguish ourselves on this planet.
Utxi4m t1_j1mo7fc wrote
>As a species we are far too interconnected at this point for China to have any real unilateral ambitions without cooperation with the rest.
China got excluded from any and all collaboration with western space agencies. If they want anything in the sector, they need to go it alone.
>As a species we are quickly approaching the point where we either do the same predictable shit of world wars, greed , and control… or we learn how to cooperate enough to become an interplanetary species before we finally extinguish ourselves on this planet.
I agree. But sadly I really really doubt collaboration will win out.
LittleBirdyLover t1_j1nrucy wrote
western space agencies
Just the U.S. China works with ESA and other “western” agencies.
MoonMan75 t1_j1mqq7n wrote
China has a microprocessor supply chain. They bought around 500 billion worth last year and are working on making their own.
Communist USSR reached space first. And China is state capitalist anyways.
Why do you assume that Xi will be micromanaging every decision related to space? He's a human, not a robot. He just signs off on the major things and everything else is delegated to other people.
People have been clamoring about Chinese revolution, collapse, whatever for decades now. Never materialized.
TheGreatDave666 t1_j1n5sk2 wrote
>Even with it, communism is going to hold him back too much
You know theyre State Capitalist, right?
Communism is a misnomer, unless China is a
Stateless, Classless society that has abolished the commodity form.
Which it's not, it's a Nation State that has MANY classes and MANY commodities.
user_dan t1_j1mvyk6 wrote
>Without a microprocessor supply chain all of Xi’s galactic ambitions are in lockdown.
To the extent that this is even an issue, it is a temporary one. China's space ambitions is over the next couple of decades.
>Even with it, communism is going to hold him back too much.
I get that people get confused by "communist" in the single party's name, but China is a state capitalist dictatorship. Not much in the economy or government resembles communism.
>Governance by decree is a pretty terrible way to run a space program.
The space program is not going to fund, form and come up with goals on it's own. Government has to be directing it.
>If you put one person loyal to the party in charge on the moon or mars and then have to wait for the party to make decisions with the lag/delay of asking for permission from xi it will inevitably turn into a problem.
You don't know how the Chinese government operates. You also don't know how the US and other space programs operate.
>Life comes at you fast. It comes at your exponentially faster in space.
The Chinese plan is over several decades. SpaceX took 20 years to get to where it is at. In human timescales, space exploration is really slow. Nothing "exponentially fast" about it.
>I’m relatively certain Covid...
Yeah, covid has nothing to do with the Chinese space program.
>The world is at a precipice of revolution.
Because China did a space program update? I need to get my "Alien Lives Matter" and "No Chinese in Space" protest signs ready.
Space exploration tech is ubiquitous enough that China will be able to make some progress. The reality is China lies about their GDP and economy. If the past has taught us anything, China probably does not have the money to fund the space ambitions they just announced.
Johnnywaka t1_j1n29ts wrote
The Soviet Union was the first country to put a man in space. Cope
planko13 t1_j1ndffz wrote
Good, maybe congress will get out of the way and let NASA do it’s thing again. competition is good