Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5izq6n wrote

Reply to comment by Arananthony in LPT: To get the most muscle/sculpting for your buck at the gym, focus on compound lifts—the exercises that recruit multiple muscle groups. You only really need overhead press, bench press, squat, deadlift, rows, dips, and maybe pull-ups. These will give you most workout for the energy you put forth. by [deleted]

Fitness outside of the bodybuilding subs is awful on here, hopefully nobody listens to this

Most bang for your buck:

  1. Split is optional, I'd go with a PPL 3-6 times a week personally, but anything that gets you into the gym can work
  2. Only 5 or so exercises per workout, 15 mins cardio at the end
  3. 1-2 warm up sets and then 2-3 working sets of each exercise
  4. You want to do between (5-15) broadly or 8-12 (narrowly) reps in each set. Be careful with this, this means you need to be failing the movement or within a couple of reps of failure between 8 and 12 reps, not that you get to 12 and stop when you've still got more in the tank
  5. Progressive overload with weight, that means if you're hitting 12 reps consistently with good form then you need to increase the weight
  6. Eat a caloric surplus and each your bodyweight in lbs in grams of protein

Follow these six steps consistently and you'll be a different person in 6 months

24

flyingShaq t1_j5j1pyb wrote

For ppl who don't lift weights at all, which is what the OP's intended audience is, starting with compounds is pretty decent advice. Just focusing on the stuff they listed, hell even just focusing on pullups, squats, dips, and BP can build a pretty decent physique as long as they throw a few accessories in there too.

21

WaluigiIsBonhart t1_j5jinet wrote

>For ppl who don't lift weights at all, which is what the OP's intended audience is, starting with compounds is pretty decent advice.

For this particular group, true beginners, it's abysmal advice.

You need to ease body-naive folks into some of these types of workouts. Much better to start safely with more isolations and machines, then introduce these things. Walking into a gym for the first time and immediately doing deadlifts and bench is how you end up injured.

9

Villam09 t1_j5jpp0o wrote

I completely agree with this, a good machine will ease you into the movements, you can go from there.

3

Arananthony t1_j5j3lk7 wrote

If the intended audience is for people who never picked up a barbell in their life and just want to look good, they’re better off just doing any “bodybuilding” split which doesn’t require compounds at all. The big 3 lifts are quite technical and is a fast way to get hurt without proper form. A majority of people can’t even perform a pull up or a dip at body weight and will see faster returns using machines instead.

6

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5j279i wrote

I don't buy it. Training compounds if you want to look good is like training for a marathon by running 100m sprints

Isolating with intensity is vastly more efficient, might be a bit more to chew at the beginning but six weeks in and you're already seeing the benefit

5

Afferbeck_ t1_j5jd4kb wrote

Why do you think you can't look good with compound lifts? An untrained person has a far greater chance of causing a significant change to their physique by focusing on say dips and pullups than they do trying to hyperspecialise on bodybuilding isolations. The guy that goes from zero to 15 pullups (or ideally added weight) has a much better change than the guy who adds a few notches on the cable curl.

3

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5je7wr wrote

As I say, it's like training for a marathon with sprints, it's easier to program doing the same three compounds 3x a week. But doing even a half decent isolation split with adequate intensity is always going to see more results.

E.g. doing one shoulder, one chest, and one tricep exercise is going to look a lot better than doing one bench press after a month or two

1

flyingShaq t1_j5j2vj1 wrote

If you're recommending ppl, p sure it incorporates compounds and accessories. Bench press, squat, dl, pull ups, etc all component of ppl

0

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5j3fvd wrote

I mean you can program a ppl (or any split) with compounds or isolation exercises, I should have been clearer that I'd focus on smaller isolation exercises, especially ones with greater stability like machines or cables over free weights for hypertrophy.

Stimulus to fatigue ratio is much better on (for example) a machine Incline chest press compared to a Dumbell press.

0

vinceftw t1_j5jgcty wrote

You gave solid advice at first and then you said isolation and machine exercises trump compounds. What?

1

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5jh7cq wrote

For hypertrophy? Of course isolation/machines are better. Stability + isolation means less fatigue, means muscular failure comes before cardiovascular failure (which tends to be the opposite with big compounds)

1

vinceftw t1_j5jhge6 wrote

If you're reaching cardiovascular failure before muscle failure on compounds you're either fat af, 80 year old or extremely unfit which all mean you'd need the extra cardio.

2

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5jhndb wrote

Personally I think people think they're hitting muscular failure when they're really hitting cardio failure when doing most compounds, but all we can do is agree to disagree there

1

Yeangster t1_j5jnbtd wrote

I was rowing for an hour a day for more than a year when I started squats and deadlifts. A heavy set of 3-5 would almost knock me out.

0

flyingShaq t1_j5j5rfn wrote

Yea, I'd have to agree. In terms of just pure muscular development isolation is most optimal.

0

SPOOKESVILLE t1_j5k0j88 wrote

Honestly I disagree pretty heavily. Beginners aren’t going to know what a compound lift should look or feel like. They aren’t beginner friendly in the first place. Machines that target one or two muscles at a time are most definitely beginner friendly. This post is all about efficiency. If you want to get strong fast, then technically yes these are slightly more efficient, but not noobie friendly.

1

umphtown t1_j5jm6j6 wrote

This is great. Can you give an example of the best 5 exercises for upper body?

1

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5jnahr wrote

For chest: incline machine chest press for upper chest, I like some variation of seated cable pressing combined with seated cable flies for the mid chest, again cables angled downwards or chest oriented dips for lower chest

For Triceps (which I'd do on the same day as chest): I like Smith machine skullcrushers, any form of cable pushdown or overhead extensions when done with proper form are good for tris

For biceps: the research seems to suggest attempting to bias the heads isn't too effective, so straight Dumbell curls imo are best (single arm, to really isolate), Hammer curls (with good form) too

For back: some rowing movement, back is a very big muscle group so the more stability the better hence why I wouldn't advise Barbell rows, pull downs and pull overs are good too

For shoulders: lateral raises are key, seated shoulder press can be good, and rear delt flies are what I find works for me

I'm no expert on this stuff, this is all second hand information from people better than me, people like JPG coaching on tik tok do great content on different exercises and their pros and cons, albeit with a very pro science bias, you can make of that last bit what you will

3

ImTheHipHopapotamus t1_j5jqpx6 wrote

Man i’d be careful about using the smith machine for skill crushers. It limits your range of motion to just up and down.

Best to grab a flat bench and an ez-bar and perform your skullcrushers like that, but aiming above your head. Your starting point should be like 30 degrees back from lifting your arms straight and then you just bend your elbows and the bar should go above your head.

Athlean X shows them - think he calls they lying Tricep extensions in his best Tricep exercises.

1

Grand-Spectacular t1_j5j8b85 wrote

What's the use of the cardio at the end? I thought most people split their weight and cardio days?

0

TheDismal_Scientist t1_j5j97t7 wrote

Yeah you can always split the cardio, that part doesn't actually matter too much the important thing is you aren't neglecting it however you're getting it in. I find it easier to program cardio at the end of the workout but it's probably more optimal for a different day

1

Kike328 t1_j5jy4s5 wrote

Cardio improves recovery and makes easier to lift without getting exhausted along the training routine.

But doing it first instead last, will affect negatively on how you perform, as you will be already tired.

1