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howhighisthewater t1_j48y9b0 wrote

I’ll thank you to not put tomatoes in the shepherds pie

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_Face t1_j495h4o wrote

Gtfo with tomatoes. I’d be mortified if I was served that.

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karmint1 t1_j497mzp wrote

If braising the mince with some tomato sauce is good enough for Marco Pierre White, it's good enough for me. Though he does say that you should add/omit whatever the hell you want from the mince, so you do you!

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Wald0_17 t1_j48zh6w wrote

I grew up hating "shepherd's pie" (notwithstanding the shepherd's/ cottage debate). I now realize that canned corn, unseasoned ground beef, and instant mashed potatoes isn't shepherd's pie, it's shit. I will fight and die on this hill.

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turd_sculptor t1_j498f61 wrote

You should challenge yourself to make a shepherds pie that you'd be proud to serve. It can be wonderful comfort food and even if you use fresh ingredients it's not that expensive.

We like to add gravy and mushrooms to the beef in ours.

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Wald0_17 t1_j499ao9 wrote

I'm pleased to report that I've done just that. Tomato paste, Thyme, carrots, onions, beef (or lamb, but the Mrs. doesn't like it), a few other things. It's actually one of my favorite things to make now. But no corn, that's non-negotiable for me.

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ebai4556 t1_j4brd3z wrote

Tomato paste?!

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Wald0_17 t1_j4btghx wrote

Yes! It adds some flavor without being overbearing, helps to thicken, and brings a little color. That being said, I imagine a beef bullion would also work, but might be a little overbearing.

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marrymejojo OP t1_j492bcz wrote

Yeah I agree. When made you the way it's described it's not great. I'll still eat it with loads of ketchup though.

I agree the way you describe the ingredients sounds shit. But one can always use better versions of those ingredients and it will be better. Albeit still just shepherds pie!

I'm not arguing the dish is good although I like it :)

Just that the beef/lamb debate is dumb.

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gordielaboom t1_j49pd54 wrote

Just said this same thing further up. Hated it growing up. So I make it my own way now, and my kids lick the plate clean. No thanks to creamed corn.

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200Dachshunds t1_j4avht3 wrote

Agree! For the longest time I thought that’s what shepherds pie was, bless my mother but her recipe was terrible for this (though at least she did make homemade mashed for it) many years later Alton Browns shepherds pie recipe converted me and now I’m a fan.

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k_mainer t1_j4alj0d wrote

I worked with a woman shared this: pan fried bologna on a plate, scoop of mashed potato, ladle of creamed corn over the top. Variation on a shit theme. She said it was a school lunch item when she was growing up (she’s late 30s, early 40s) that she now considers comfort food. We all have our dark secrets.

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Wald0_17 t1_j4aqqf2 wrote

Well, I'm about her age, and I never saw a war crime like that on the school lunch menu...I didn't even see anything like that in the army. Our childhoods shape us in mysterious ways.

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spaztikmoose t1_j4bip02 wrote

We’ll stand together and fight!

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Wald0_17 t1_j4bunmy wrote

I was kind of expecting to get downvoted for playing the culinary gadfly, since I know how some people can get when it comes to traditional methods of preparing a dish (I've had this discussion several times at work and it seems I'm in the minority here). The support is a refreshing surprise.

It should be said, in my mother's defense, that she is not otherwise a bad cook. It's just her shepherd's pie and beef stew that I take exception to.

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transmorgrifier t1_j49buur wrote

A friend's wife who's originally from England told me that Shepard's Pie has lamb while Cottage Pie has minced beef (ground beef).

That said... I still make mine with ground beef and call it Shepard's Pie :)

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TinyGreenJolley t1_j4d2ti7 wrote

Same! I remember learning that a few years back and I said "Well okay but I'm still calling it shepherds pie."

Though lamb makes more sense for the "shepherd" bit

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Hansekins t1_j4gj7la wrote

My husband is English, and my mother-in-law (also English, obviously) gave me her recipe for shepherd's pie. So if you're interested in how an actual English person makes shepherd's pie, this recipe is to die for. (I'm actually making one today, in fact!)

1 lb / 500g ground lamb (You can use ground beef, but lamb is so much better)

2 carrots, grated

1 1/2 lb potatoes, peeled and boiled until tender

1 C water

1 beef bouillon cube

2 heaping teaspoons cornstarch

1 heaping teaspoon Marmite (Marmite can usually be found at Shaw's in their tiny little British foods section in the International foods aisle.)

1 C Sharp cheddar cheese (as much as needed to cover top of pie)

Directions

  1. Brown the lamb in a frying pan, chopping with a spatula while frying to keep it fine, no clumping. Drain fat.

  2. Add grated carrots, add water and crumble in bouillon cube.

  3. Bring to a boil, then add marmite.

  4. Thicken the meat and gravy with cornstarch - add it gradually to create a thick consistency. Taste the meat and gravy for flavor. You can add a dash of soy sauce or Worcestershire sauce if it's a bit too bland. (I find lamb doesn't need it, but will add Worcestershire if I'm using beef.)

  5. Pour into a large casserole dish.

  6. Mash cooked potatoes with one Tbsp. butter and spread on top of meat.

  7. Cook in a preheated oven at 400F for 10-15 minutes until brown on top.

  8. Grate cheddar cheese over the top, then return to the oven for another 10 minutes until golden on top.

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transmorgrifier t1_j4ie5qg wrote

Thank you so much for sharing! I've printed her recipe and plan to try it out soon! :)

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Hansekins t1_j4izw9v wrote

You're very welcome! I highly encourage you to try to find some marmite - it's a yeast extract, comes in a small jar, and is very sticky. I don't much care for marmite myself (my husband puts it on toast) but you don't really taste the marmite itself in the recipe. I think it's doing a lot of work that salt would normally do, so if you can't find any marmite, you'll definitely want to taste the meat mixture and add salt as needed.

I hope you enjoy it!

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transmorgrifier t1_j4j8opq wrote

Maybe molasses and some salt could stand in for Marmite?

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Hansekins t1_j4jq4sk wrote

Well, the stickiness of it isn't really relevant - it dissolves pretty quickly when you stir it in. I only mentioned it just to describe what marmite is like. A quick google says that miso or nutritional yeast are reasonable substitutes for marmite - it's really the flavor you're after, even if it isn't drastically noticeable in the finished product. In any case, I don't think molasses would be suitable.

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transmorgrifier t1_j4l44yg wrote

I do keep miso on hand, so if I can't find any Marmite, I'll try to sub for that. Thanks again! :)

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marrymejojo OP t1_j48t702 wrote

Reddit will be quick to point out that "shepherds pie" made with beef is in fact "cottage pie". And that Shepherds pie must be made with lamb.

Forget that fact that vast areas of the country make it with beef and call it shepherds pie. I decided to look through my collection of maine and new England cookbooks to confirm what I already new. That indeed, people call the same thing by different names sometimes depending on geographical location. Shocking I know.

I'm going to continue to call my shepherds pie made with beef by the name... shepherds pie. Because otherwise no one is going to know what the hell I am talking about.

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bugdude666 t1_j48w0ie wrote

I’m a born and bred mainah and it took Gordon Ramsay being bitchy on kitchen nightmares for me to realize the “shepherds pie” I grew up with was technically a cottage pie. Since then I’ve made the pie with both lamb and beef. It’s pretty much the same. I call it all shepherds pie. I am an idiot sandwich and proud.

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marrymejojo OP t1_j48wj7j wrote

Oh so it's Gordon Ramsey that started the ridiculousness. That makes sense.

On a side note... I used to work at the navy base cafeteria in brunswick and all the navy folks would call it beef corn pie when we had it. Even though we called it shepherds pie in the kitchen. Good times.

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ecco-domenica t1_j4j00hg wrote

Not really Gordon Ramsey that started it. It's an old British origin dish, and if we were in Britain, we'd be calling what we eat cottage pie, because in Britain, shepherd's pie is made with lamb. Since we're not in Britain, we can all just call it whatever we want and no one needs to tell Gordon anything about it.

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raynedanser t1_j495k50 wrote

I still call it shepherd's pie - or pate chinois. :) I will not cook with lamb, sorry. Not doing it. And no cheese. or tomato. But plenty of herbs and seasoning and it's just fine, thanks.

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DarkObserver t1_j49ylfn wrote

My memere and pepere always used mixed veggies instead of corn so for decades sheppherds pie or pate chinois always had that and ketchup on top.

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Your_Sisters_Ass t1_j49fly4 wrote

Im part Irish. We always put peas in it, not corn.

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jcguerre t1_j49wht3 wrote

I have some friends that used to make China Pie, which had peas in addition to the corn.

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marrymejojo OP t1_j49g60y wrote

That's called peashinsh pie I think. How dare you call that Shepherds pie.

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kba1907 t1_j4ch7dj wrote

I use peas and corn. I’m also part Irish and mostly British 😂

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SheSellsSeaShells967 t1_j49wv3g wrote

So we can all agree that it's meat mixed with something with mashed potatoes on top

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Subject_Meat5314 t1_j49074m wrote

The recipes without 100’s of ads you’re forced to scroll through are suspect.

That said, I grew up in Maine but my mom never would have made a shepherd’s pie without lamb without calling out that it wasn’t really shepherd’s pie. I don’t recall the term cottage pie being used instead. That said my mom lived in England for part of her childhood so maybe that explains it?

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marrymejojo OP t1_j493kgk wrote

That makes sense. I almost feel like the term "cottage pie" was just invented by the "you can't call that Shepherds pie crowd". That makes sense your mom said that. I think the name and the recipe changed in the US or at least in the northeast. Obviously because we don't have lamb, we have beef.

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bulgarianjuice t1_j492vy8 wrote

When this was served to us in school it was always called, China Pie. I don’t think I’ve heard it called that since then.

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sacredblasphemies t1_j493nm2 wrote

That's from the Quebecois term for it: "pate chinois".

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raynedanser t1_j495m89 wrote

I grew up calling it pate chinois at my Memere and Pepere's house. :)

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jessendjames t1_j494gzb wrote

Yeah it was Chinese pie for us too. I make it still for my family, but add flavor and good ingredients

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marrymejojo OP t1_j498q2s wrote

I've heard it called that as well. Interesting to see some of the explanations for it!

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tdkme t1_j49oppz wrote

Checking in here to say my family also called it pate-chinois, but there was never really any understanding of it translating to “Chinese Pie” or whatever, that’s just what it was always called and passed down as such

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babayaga-333 t1_j493agt wrote

Shepherd's pie uses lamb or mutton, Cottage pie uses beef. Fight me.

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vgallant t1_j497oga wrote

I learned this years ago when on vacation. I ordered it from a restaurant, not realizing, and I couldn't eat it. I use ground pork in mjne.

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marrymejojo OP t1_j49fy82 wrote

This region generally refers to shepherds pie as being made with beef. Have the distinction you have. That's fine. But it doesn't change what we call shepherds pie. No one needs to fight. It's just different parts of the world having different definitions

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vgallant t1_j497vp4 wrote

I use 1lb of groud pork, garlic, onion and lots of seasoning all cooked together and put that down first. Then layer 1 can of creamed and 1 can whole kernel over that. I used to top it off with buttery potatoes but we switched to tater tots and cheese. I cook the tots in the oven while I prep the meat. Like them up to cover the entire pie, sprinkle mozzarella cheese over the top and bake. We haven't gone back to potatoes yet.

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silverport t1_j49jcik wrote

Different Shepard’s. Different Pies!

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lol1231yahoocom t1_j4chsmw wrote

This is the answer. No recipe moves through people and time unchanged.

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Hot_Salad9000 t1_j49jngx wrote

This is why i love food, the cultural and regional influence on recipes is interesting.

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AlternativeWay4729 t1_j4axxoe wrote

I'm a shepherd. That means I farm sheep. It's not shepherd's pie unless it uses ground lamb or mutton. It's cottage pie. Look it up, people. Be good to your local shepherd.

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marrymejojo OP t1_j4c49h9 wrote

Except no one here calls it that. You know how in some places people call the same things by different names? Yeah it's kind of like that. You are not going to get an entire region of the world to start calling something different.

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AlternativeWay4729 t1_j4c60bn wrote

No lamb for you, then!

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marrymejojo OP t1_j4cndwp wrote

I do like lamb though. I've been thinking about the logic a but more and I guess my question would be why is it called cottage pie then. Wouldn't it be called like ranchers pie? Or cattle herders pie?

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AlternativeWay4729 t1_j4ctpkq wrote

I would guess because "cottage" and the Anglo-Scots root "cottar" or "commoner" refer to the old British peasantry. So it's "commoner's pie" and was originally made with leftover roast beef.

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geomathMEW t1_j4b7bj6 wrote

Make extra potatoes. Use those as a bottom and sidewalls in addition to them on top. Thank me later!

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Alkivar t1_j4d1qrl wrote

done it this way for years. Mom did this, because Grandma did it this way.

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PatchMountain t1_j49k0us wrote

Always go with "The Joy of Cooking"! To add context, they have 4 recipes for hash and a discussion about it!

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gordielaboom t1_j49p62s wrote

Fuuuuck, I hated the creamed corn. I make it with mixed veggies now, or peas and carrots. Might not be original, but it’s good! And 2 packets of brown gravy mix.

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waywardnarwhal17 t1_j49rxth wrote

Still can't believe gravy mix isn't standard. Frozen corn for me though.

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hike_me t1_j4915fd wrote

I use 1lbs ground lamb and 1 lbs ground beef

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dutchywins t1_j49br31 wrote

Hash in my Sheppards pie sounds like a good idea…

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fjwjr t1_j49vq2r wrote

Layer of cooked ground beef

Layer of mixed cream corn and frozen corn

Layer of sharp cheddar cheese

Layer of mashed potatoes

There is no other way to make it.

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ebeemeelakeguy t1_j4c0fzx wrote

Mum used to make the creamed corn recipe and it was "meh" but as my dad always said: ""If you're hungry enough, you'll eat your mum's cooking"""

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WhiteKnight319 t1_j4c2f4u wrote

Start with Marjorie Standish. Evolve from there if you like.

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marrymejojo OP t1_j4c3vf7 wrote

Both of those top recipes are Marjorie standish

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abbieos t1_j4ccucc wrote

We should now start a debate on: American Chop Suey

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outer_fucking_space t1_j4cng5e wrote

Any of these would be good. It’s one of my favorite things to make. I like to cook the ground beef with a couple hefty spoonfuls of condensed cream of mushroom soup. Also, a beef, bouillon, cube, a little splash of red wine, and some herbs to Provence. Essentially, I sort of treat the ground beef like it’s a beef stew to some degree. I’m always messing around with the meat layer of this recipe, but this is the one that I think tastes the best.

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mcCola5 t1_j4cxm8q wrote

I brought a Shepards pie to a potluck once. The English fella said it was the best he'd ever had. It was the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me, with an accent.

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insanekid66 t1_j4d0fd0 wrote

My mom always made it with hamburger, corn (maybe creamstyle corn?) and mashed potatoes. A bowl of that, salt, and a bunch of freshly cracked pepper? Fuckin good eatin right there bub.

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leeroy20 t1_j4eeg8u wrote

Just had someone tonight made with venison, delicious.

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