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It's great to see this article and hear of how 300 dogs were rescued. It is also sad that such a place was allowed to get to be as big as it was.

Hopefully all rescued dogs find loving homes and if malnourished make it back to full health!

Now go rescue all the cows, pigs, chickens, salmons etc.

This makes me happy. I had a puppy mill dog. Her problems started a week after I brought her home.

Those people should have to live in dog kennels. Scumbags.

Not sarcastically, but "we eat those" tends to prioritize which animals we save and which animals we are okay with treating poorly.

Musta been a loooot of itchy trigger fingers with that many dogs around.

Pigs are as smart as dogs

My comment was not about measuring animal intelligence. It was only to say that humans are good at mental gymnastics to say "dog is good, should be treated good" and "pig is food, don't care about treatment".

And more delicious!

Says a lot that this is downvoted. Opposing this treatment of dogs is sensible, but opposing it while not caring about those other animals is just sheer ethnocentric hypocrisy.

Oh totally, did not want to imply that you said anything like that. Just makes me sad generally!

Im gon bite you next

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Ethnocentric means ethnicity preference, which is not what we’re talking about here when discussing different species of animal.

I'm talking about how different cultures have different standards about different animal species.

I hear long pig tastes just like pig too. So I'll bet I'm tasty.

Go vegan! 💪🌱

So's ur fuggin nan and I'd eat her too

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That is a very false representation of a vegan's bicep.

And tastier!

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That's very true and also the base of my argument whenever someone talks about how some Asian cultures eat dogs and how that's cruel. I eat beef, pork, etc., but I was raised in India. A lot of people there think of eating meat similar to how people think of others eat dogs over here. My community isn't restricted on vegetarian diet, so when I eat meat, some people looked at me weird or downright told me how disgusting it looks to them.

game changer documentary disagree and r/veganfitness

And you are walking freely every day?

Headline was almost alot different

Oh, I get it. This is funny!!!

crunch

Don't be so Sinophobic

Thanks you

Nah this wasn't the ATF

Absolutely scum of the earth and I just wish there were stricter laws

It’s one of the few non-political things, like both republicans and democrats voters would support harsh penalties against animals

It’s def a mental disorder to be so cruel and evil with lack of empathy for a living breathing creature. I can’t imagine the shock and horror I would feel if I walked j to a warehouse with 300 dogs crammed into small cages…and these people do it every day their whole life 🤦‍♂️ 😢

They push metal rods down chihuahuas throats as well to break the bone so they can’t bark…absolutely crazy…(the rescuer we got our dog from the lady had two that went tvrotuh this…so F off anyone trying to say it’s not true when I’ve had them in my lap)

These are Caucasian shepherds which will make the process of rehoming very difficult :(

These dogs are a beautiful breed and one of my favorites but are extremely difficult to socialize properly without an experienced trainer familiar with the breed, and their tendency towards aggression and independence makes them unsuitable for most homes especially if not trained properly at an early age. Tragic story all around

>It’s def a mental disorder to be so cruel and evil with lack of empathy for a living breathing creature.

glad to see another vegan in here.

They were meant to be livestock guardians, and are great at that. To be cooped up in a house with no job is what causes issues with this breed, and other LGD breeds.

If anyone really wants to help but can't donate, consider fostering a dog from a shelter. Damn near every shelter is overwhelmed right now, and opening even one space at a rescue means that another dog can be saved. It doesn't have to be for months, either. A shelter near me does weekend fostering, as well as 2 week fostering. It helps the dogs in a number of ways, one of the most important being that the foster becomes that dog's advocate. All costs are provided for, all you need is a place for the dog to chill, and some time to give them loves and walks.

If you're worried that it will be emotionally difficult, then even just taking a dog out for a field trip or to chill at your house for the day while you work is an amazing way to help the dog, the rescue, and increase chances of adoptions. A snoozing senior pup on a couch will get more attention than a picture through the gate of a kennel. Plus, there's been studies that show a decrease in stress in dogs who went on sleepovers or went on doggy dates, so even when the dog goes back to their kennel, they're less stressed, they sleep better, and they're more calm.

I'm 100% vegan and every week I bike over 100 miles, rock climbing gym 2-3 days, play bike polo 1-2 nights for hours, skateboard, jog 1-3 mornings, play the drums, and walk my dog constantly.

Let's see your bicep

Love to see it! Would love to see some cows, chickens, or pigs be next!

I love seeing vegans being upvoted.

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It's not their culture to eat dog, it's the fact they're impoverished. People in Africa also eat dog and that's more of a cultural thing than it is in Asian countries.

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You can be empathetic and compassionate towards animals and not be vegan.

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The sentence’s for breeding dogs without a license or any type of care or hygiene should be a lot harsh.

I'm sorry but no, you really cannot. There are exactly zero viable reasons to not go vegan nowadays. If you prefer the taste of animal products, then you support animal cruelty.

Yeah, and I'm not denying there are other communities that eat dogs and cats. And yes, a lot of it is due to poverty, but whether it's due to poverty or historical/religious significance, if a majority of the community finds it acceptable to practice something, it's part of their culture. People don't see a dog and associate them as an extension of their family, they see an animal that's got meat on it. Same way a lot of Indians see cows and they associate it as a sacred animal and not a food source.

I hope these people are severaly beaten then put into solitary confinement with a bowl full of water and some slop in their dish. Despicable.

How?

I think you should look into that one again from a different source.

I'm sorry but no, that's not true.

Is it animal cruelty to raise a baby cow on an open range farm and give it an enjoyable life and then painlessly slaughter it later in life? Is it wrong to pick up a deer that just got hit by a car and make use of the meat?

Many say no. Me included.

Everything dies, not everything has to suffer unnecessarily. I purchase ethically sourced meat. I go the extra mile and personally verify the source to the best of my ability. I care a lot about these animals and support any action that leads to better lives for these loving creatures.

I won't go vegan again, for health reasons mostly but also because supporting ethically sourced meat in my opinion is even better than leaving the market entirely. It hurts those factory farmers more because those competitors get bigger and cheaper and displace them over time.

There's still a lot of mental gymnastics at play here. Sure, some of the "my uncle's ethical farm" treat the animals with respect and give them plenty of free roam. However, a majority of them still ship the animals to the same slaughter houses that factory farms do, where they suffer the same painful, inefficient deaths. The living conditions there are horrid, the workers use cattle prods or bolt guns which don't work 100% of the time. Gas is often used causing them to writhe in agony for minutes before finally dying. Cows often have their throats slit to bleed out while still alive. I could go on, but feel free to do a quick search of how slaughter houses operate, or simply watch the documentary: Dominion.

Even if you can 100% guarantee the food you get has been painlessly slaughtered, do you think that animal wanted to be killed? Can you think of any actual reason to consume animal products besides personal taste preference?

Treating the animals raised with kindness and compassion, and only ever taking what you need. Being sure to use the whole animal. Making sure farming practices are wholesome and sustainable.

I am not a meat eater but I don't see this as a black and white, vegan or not vegan, situation.

Everything can be justified by "but MmmMMmMM BACON!" in their eyes. It's baffling.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. God gave us permission to eat meat a long time ago. Jesus himself ate fish. I will follow after no human being except Jesus Christ, the one responsible for where my soul goes for eternity.

I can do all the mental gymnastics I want when you use absolute statements like that. Only need to think of a single instance. Whether or not the animal wanted to die is irrelavent, of course it didn't, but overall it had a net positive existence in the world I reckon. If it were up to me I'd rather be born and raised well and then killed later in life than not exist at all, so I see no cruelty in that.

Sure, the actual killing of the animal is a bit unethical, but from my perspective eating ethically sourced meat is no problem.

Well I gotta say.. That's the first time I've seen religion used as an excuse to rape, torture and slaughter animals! It's ok as long as Jesus says so right?

Well done!!🇨🇦

Ah so is it cool if an ethical human farmer were to shoot you in the face real quick, process you and sell you to some cannibals then? They gave you a pretty good life before that so it's all good right?

Who the fuck is justifying the rape of animals? If we’re speaking broadly it’s always been used as an excuse to do those things if we include people in the equation….but Jesus fucking Christ.

If that is the price to pay for being brought into the world and protected, better than nothing. Sure.

Though I wouldn't say it would be okay for the farmer to shoot me without my consent. This is where adult humans differ from animals, they can't do that mental math and decide for themselves so I decide for them as their caretaker (if I'm the ethical farmer who wants to breed a baby cow for future slaughter).

The best we can do when making a choice for someone that can't make it for themselves, is consider what we would want if it were up to us.

How do you think you get cows milk? Cows only produce it when they're pregnant. Most dairy farms continually forcefully inseminate them to keep them pregnant to keep producing milk until they're physically unable to anymore..

There’s a problem in the Amish community in my state where they make a living off of puppy mills

I hope all these dogs don’t get put down, 300 dogs is a ton of homes.

This is nothing compared to the Amish puppy mills. Those bastards have been abusing animals since the 1700's under the guise of "simple folk"

Can we gun down people who do this shit? I want inhumane breeders to be discouraged from ever mistreating animals

This is great. But most people here fund worse treatment of animals at every meal. Just saying.

How about we make it so that people like this get the same treatment they inflicted on poor animals?

I have two rescues, and they are the best dogs I have ever had. The first was likely abused before I got her; the second, badly neglected.

There is no such thing as a bad dog! Dogs need mental and physical stimulation, consistent boundaries (enforced by patience—NOT punishment!), adequate nutrition, and love, in the form of being around their pack, which includes us. That’s it. If your dog is misbehaving, one of those things is lacking: he is bored, antsy, hungry/thirsty/tired/hurting, lonely, or doesn’t understand what the rules are. They’re just like us.

My dogs know what life was like before me: locked in a dog run in a shelter, abused and dumped in the country. As a result, it is so easy to make them happy. We still have some behavioral issues, like my abused dog still fearing male strangers and being a little timid, or my other dog getting a little too confident and independent, but it isn’t anything I can’t handle with a little bit of patience.

My dogs can be walked off leash, and I think it’s because the only lives they knew without me were unhappy. My boyfriend got his dog as a pup, and he goes off on an adventure—because he doesn’t realize that life can be difficult. My dogs know when to approach and when to hold off, because they have been extensively socialized around people and other dogs, which is awesome. My dogs also learned to wait at crosswalks and NEVER to cross the street until I allow them (I yell at the street, not the dog, and “rescue” them if they try—first, I imagine them dying so I get scared, then I grab and pull them back to “safety,” and pet them while I calm down). I have only had a problem a total of once in over two years, when my deaf elderly dog caught a scent and disappeared into a creek area at night, then reappeared the next day, muddy from a swim (so, she had found water) but less than 100 yards from where she got lost (probably because she got turned around). She had found another dog owner who called the number on her tag; she wasn’t close to a street at all, since I had trained her to avoid them. She had found water and knew how to get the attention of another human, by annoying her dogs until she went to investigate. She now wears a lighted collar at night and is always on a leash, since she can’t hear me anymore. My young male dog occasionally gets too far ahead, and after I ask if he wants to go home (which is what I normally do to “punish” him for misbehavior during an otherwise fun outing), he comes running. Lol. I used to have to pretend I was leaving the dog park without him to get him to come with, but it worked (and I never got more than a couple of feet past the gate before he was crying to get out).

Dogs are way smarter than we give them credit for. The key is knowing that they want to make you happy, and giving them attention when they do what you want, ignoring them when they don’t. The only negative reinforcement should come from a correction, immediately followed by an easy task the dog knows to get back into your good graces.

Anyway I’m rambling but yeah, shelter dogs are the best and they literally saved my sanity and maybe even my life (I was super lonely and depressed) during the pandemic.

Same!!

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

I mean I get it, but there is so much more that we can do to be productive and preventative. I think understanding why people do this—a lack of empathy or compassion and/or financial desperation—and addressing that is maybe a better long term solution. People who lack compassion are often abuse survivors themselves.

In the meantime, I understand your anger and hope you are able to find a way to channel it for positive change.

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Special mention to the Las Vegas city council that chose not to ban stores from using puppy mills a few years ago. This is partly on them.

Meat is 5x more protein dense than plant matter.

This is important in third world countries like mine because going vegan means you need to buy more food to get the same sustenance.

Veganism isn't taken seriously here because we do not have the luxury of choice. It is seen as anti poor empathy for animals when we should be prioritizing each other.

We do not have enough fields to feed the country. We have forests and cutting them down for fields is ill-advised. We cannot depend on imports because again... Third world economy.

What we have in abundance are fish, being an island nation, and pork and chicken because they eat anything we can't and they fatten easy.

For context, I'm earning 5.5 USD per hour and that is twice the average daily wage. People around me consider me fortunate with that salary. I can't afford veganism. How can people with less than I?

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Interesting. And I am not making excuses for puppy farms but I wonder how they treat the animals? Surely much better then these giant scum. JW don’t be mad at me!

Why word it that way? They artificially inseminate the cows, it’s not rape. They do it for about 4 years, then they’re sent to slaughter.

Forcefully inseminate….

Just use my argument. I've yet to see anyone counter it because it's true.

Veganism is anti poor.

People who advocate for "veganism at all costs" forget that third world nations exist.

When your country is surrounded by water and filled with forests, you don't have enough fields to feed everyone with plant matter.

And you don't have the economy to import a pure plant matter diet for everyone.

You fish, and you breed chickens and pigs because they're low maintenance and eat scraps for minimum waste.

Plus meat is denser in energy than plants. You need to buy more plant matter to get the same level of nutrition.

This is important because if your average daily wage is 1/4 of the US minimum wage, you can't afford to buy more food. You want the most nutrition for the least amount of food.

They are a livestock guard dog. Not the easiest “pet”

You are a wonderful advocate. Thank you for your post

Stop buying dogs, people. There’s no such thing as ethical breeders.

With dogs like this socialization especially matters a ton. People get new puppies and don't realize that the best way to have a puppy turn into a good adult is to take it with you everywhere possible first 6 months you have it. Dogs that meet massive numbers of people when they're little puppies end up much friendlier.

The situation you described doesn't exist for most farm animals in industrialized countries. They essentially live like the dogs in this article.

Have you went to a horse auction before? U see skinny draft horses that worked hard their whole life and then grow old and then they go to auction for kill buyers most of them horses are from Amish. They have dog auctions when 1 isn't making a profit they will resell to a different mill. Imo not good at all

I hate to read about people doing this to the poor animals. So glad they were rescued.

Whole heartedly agree. Even than, if that's all that happened to them, they would be getting off easy.

Not true. My aunt bred and showed boxers for 15 years. She took excellent care of them, each dog had 4-5 litters MAX in their whole life, they were spaced out by years, planned, each puppy was registered, and if she didnt like the person interested in the puppy, she didn't let them have it. She also kept in touch with every single person she ever sold a puppy to. Those dogs were her family.

Edit: she no longer breeds, but she still keeps in touch with those people, and at times they have coordinated reunions for the puppy siblings.

Seems the 'saved' was not so much good work by NCSO but a series of poor professional behavior that could have been acted upon sooner.

The post's article is in August, but a September report is not flattering of the NCSO:
https://www.ktnv.com/13-investigates/internal-emails-records-reveal-failure-to-act-by-nye-county-officials-in-dog-cruelty-case

Poor doggies. I hope everything turns out good for them. The Amish have breeding farms. They are not particularly nice or humane to any animals. Some of their “ breeder” dogs aren’t in such great shape. Why why anything for a buck.

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So sad 😞

They do not treat them better.

The animals I have rescued from Amish breeders have had their teeth ground to nubs from being fed only on concrete. They have never touched grass because they lived their lives on that concrete, most were scared of grass. They are terrified of people, especially men. They are usually emaciated and full of worms. Many have heart worms. Once a female dog no longer produces litters of quantity or quality, they would drown them. They also drowned or bashed in the head of any pup “not up to standards” (AKC standards, even though a pup could be sold for less as “pet quality”).

Finally the vet I worked with began a program with the Amish within our community. No other vets would work with them due to the above mentioned practices. My vet would work with them if they stopped those things and instead called our rescue to take the pups and adult dogs they no longer wanted. Since they had English and French Bulldogs that often needed C-Sections, the Amish agreed.

It was dark y’all. Very dark. It took a lot of rehab to get these dogs to trust humans again.

Your argument sucks because it’s not even what’s being talked about here, which is meat consumption in industrialized countries that subsist on factory farms. There are absolutely vegan assholes who will shame folks with legitimately no other options for not being vegan, and most of us really hate them because they make us look like ignorant dicks. The majority of people in industrialized countries not living in food deserts have options.

Do you find foster dogs have many “issues”? I feel this is one reason why it’s hard for people to foster a dog because they are worried about biting or things such as that

I’d be crazy too if I didn’t have a job

As long as we both shall live.

People who meet massive numbers of puppies... Same deal.

Lol. Probably true.

Not necessarily. There are all kinds of dogs that need to be fostered for different reasons. There's a number that have been mistreated, neglected, not trained, etc. and have issues, but a lot are just normal dogs. There's a million and one reasons pets end up homeless. It can be as simple as the owner moving or even dying. The pets they've had for years now don't have a home.

If you've observed what appears to be a scarcity of rescue dogs that don't need training or are "issue-free," that's mostly because those dogs get adopted quickly. There's no reason for them to be fostered because they can get into a home right away.

If local shelters are full of dogs that don't click with a potential foster then foster-based rescues are a good place to look, since they don't have a physical shelter they should have dogs that are ready to adopt out that need fosters in addition to any with behavioral issues. Medical rescues as well - those pets can require more work but it's on the medical level and not the behavioral level. Those are often sweet and normal pets that just need extra attention. My easiest foster was a cat with a broken leg who literally just couldn't live in a cage. His extra required care was... living in my house.

I love rescue and fostering, but it's so important to do it right. Giving a dog with behavioral issues to a foster that is unable or unwilling to address them is obviously a recipe for disaster. A ~good~ rescue should make the effort to match a foster with a dog that suits them - that's how you adopt out happy, normal dogs!

Sorry, this turned into a bit of a rant.

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Reports claim “you could hear everyone chant, all dogs go to heaven” following the successful mission…and barking, tremendous amounts of barking.

Nope. The shelters know their dogs. Most dogs that are fostered are ones that have been through a behavioral assessment and are totally fine. They just need a place to go. I trained an Anatolian Shepherd who was terrible in the shelter because his breed was a guardian and being surrounded by "predators" had him on high alert at all times. I fostered him for a few weeks and he was the sweetest loaf. He was adopted shortly thereafter.

Another answer to your concern would be the short-term fostering. The shelter isn't going to put you with a dog that has big issues, but if you're still unsure, ask to take a dog out for a trip to Starbucks for a pup cup, or a walk around a new park. You can gradually work your way up with a longer field trip, then a sleepover, and then a weekend foster. Just take it at your own pace and know that you have an entire shelter there as support should you need it.

No dog is perfect. They all have their own personalities and quirks. The best trained golden retriever has likely destroyed a shoe or went counter surfing a time or two. The brilliant thing about these kinds of fosters is that you get to know this awesome new friend without having to commit yourself to months or years. When the dog returns, you can let the staff know some of those quirks and they can work on them with the pup to help make them more adoptable.

The original statement the guy made was that there was no excuse to not be vegan. My argument breaks it.

Now unless someone countered my argument the issue becomes...

If we're "allowed" to eat animals because we're poor, who made vegans the authority to tell people with more than us what they should eat? This "permission" to eat meat comes off as a pity party for people without food.

It comes off as "look at them. They're so backwards they have to eat animals while we don't. I feel bad for them."

That is the undertone delivered. What happened to being treated equally?

We work so we can afford choice. Ease quality of life. Are we supposed to lose freedom of one aspect of our lives upon being capable of affording more than basic needs? Do we not deserve comfort for successfully pulling ourselves up?

And again, if we were not denied that in acknowledgement of our struggles, but people from first world nations are, is that not a pity party? A marker displaying the difference between them and us?

So when will we be viewed as equal?

Finally, social dynamics aside...

if people can justify our consumption of meat because we're poor then it is admission that animals cannot be prioritized compared to us. Because in a pinch, we are human and they are not.

Doggy mills/puppy farms are very cruel places I learned when I rescued mine from the shelter. They are often just left in kennels all day, not cleaned out till it’s so soiled it’s falling out, the dogs don’t have much of a gentle touch so they are skittish and scared to be pet.

Mine took me a month just to get me to comfortably pet him. He still hasn’t come up to lay next to me but he’s made a lot of improvement and having a big dog who can show him the ropes has really helped him.

I think (?) I see where you’re trying to go, but no. It’s about privilege, not pity, and equity, not equality. In my value system, I try to minimize the amount of harm I cause, and try to mitigate harm where I encounter it - that is what makes moral sense to me. It is impossible to live in our world and not cause harm, and I am nowhere near perfect, nor even cutting out everything in my life I could to get closer. To me, a non-negotiable is veganism, because it’s wholly possible. We do not gain “freedom” by causing harm, which is what mass-scale animal agriculture is, full stop. It is not necessary for us to survive, and no, I don’t believe anyone is entitled to the lives and autonomy of other sentient beings under the guise of “comfort”. The abject torture that is all most animals in feedlots and factories will ever know is not okay, and not excusable.

To your last point, we are animals, and have a survival instinct. I will not judge anyone doing what they can to keep themselves and their family alive, because it would be a nonsensical expectation. I think I’m maybe in the middle ground of vegans in that I view things from a harm reduction lens and view things on a spectrum - so with my current privileges I would never subsistence hunt or buy eggs from my neighbor, but these things do cause less overall pain and suffering than buying a Big Mac and do think there’s a moral difference between those and engaging in the standard American diet when you have and are aware of the many other options.

There is a fundamental incompatibility betwen the idea of preventing harm to sentient beings when given the option, and the fact that animals that are not our own species see no harm in hunting when other options exist.

Pigs are omnivores and will eat an unconscious human given the chance. And yes it has happened. Apes are largely herbivorous but do not shy away from eating grubs and lice off of each other. Hedgehogs will eat their young when threatened because in their minds, if the threat will kill their kids anyway, better they utilize the energy than a predator. Parasitic birds are technically capable of raising their own young but opt not to even at the expense of the young of other birds. Dolphins will bully puffer fish for their toxins in order to get high. They do not need to do this but they do. Orcas will body boats and animals alike and risk self harm because they think it is fun and challenging. Cats will kill for sport.

These are intelligent animals seeking comfort at the expense of other species. Because it is natural to prioritize one's own species over another, similar to how it is natural to prioritize one's family over another.

The counterpoint to this should be that as humans we are more advanced than animals and do not have to act like them. But then if we acknowledge that there is a difference, well... That difference is what allows us in the third world to eat them without guilt.

Thing is, if we grew up eating a mix of meat and vegetables to survive, we already value ourselves more than animals. Even if someone here does get rich, it is unrealistic to expect a sudden development of empathy for what we see as food.

https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI

I challenge you to make it through this 5 min video then about it. Enjoy!

Shhh don't tell them that it'll hurt their feelings. They get more butt hurt than triggered republicans!

How do I go about reporting breeding farms?

I'm certain that the dogs in the backyard my neighbor's house are indeed being used for that purpose. I have seen dogs with prolapsed uterus.

I've talked to the city but nothing has changed, and additionally the owner has come over and threatened me.

Does anyone have advice for my situation? Is there anything I can do?

Okay, Now what? I don’t find any of that as reprehensible as you do. It’s how it works. My family have been dairy farmers for generations. They operate in co-ops up in Wisconsin. Milk, cheese, meat, it’s food. These animals shouldn’t be mistreated, and at the same time phrasing routine processes in dairy production in that way comes off as manipulative.

You feel how you feel about it. I’m not going to invalidate those feelings. We have to accept at some point some people have made the decision to continue consuming animal products, despite knowing how the “sausage is made” so to speak. Death is part of it. Artificial insemination is part of it. You’ve made your choice, and are sticking to your principles, please respect other’s choices to do so.

So the cows are consenting to being treated this way? Are they asking for it? Are they thrilled to see their offspring stolen from them and forced into the same treatment? Is it natural for their bodies to be repeatedly impregnated and milked until they're no longer physically able to? Are dairy products the only easy method to get vital nutrients such as calcium?

I'm not trying to disrespect people's choices, I'm trying to educate and open their eyes about the horrors of the meat and dairy industries. There's tons of vegan alternatives that are widely available and provide just as much nutrition and taste very similar. Why then would someone continue to support animal abuse after being exposed to these truths? Not to mention the environmental impacts as well. Hell, I could even go as far as exposing the dairy industry propaganda, but that's another argument altogether..

I’m not seeing a point here. You are welcome to do mental gymnastics however you want, but this isn’t a philosophical exercise, it’s just a day to day choice. It’s wild to me how complicated people will make their arguments rather than just saying, “I know there is mass-scale suffering that animals are experiencing, I know I could make different choices, and I don’t want to because I value my [convenience, tradition, comfort, taste buds, etc] above this.”

It's hardly gymnastics at all.

The point is I see animals as food because of the fact they sustained me when plants alone would not suffice.

Can't see them as equals just because I get out of the country and move to a better life because that would necessitate feeling guilt that I contributed to the killing of thousands of equals in order to have a half decent quality of life.

I mean obviously we wouldn't kill thousands of people to make our one life better. But you acknowledge that people can eat animals to survive and you wouldn't judge them.

Thus their death is secondary to my comfort. Just as to animals, the suffering of other species they actively choose to make suffer is secondary to their comfort. The only difference is that I have the awareness to choose not to have the chicken in my backyard suffer in the moments before it ends up on my plate.

They can’t consent, they’re cows. They’re food. It’s how we get milk and dairy products. Vegan alternatives are heavily dependent on soy, gluten and nuts. The three largest allergens there are so some vegan alternatives aren’t viable for everyone. There are environmental impacts for dairy and meat alternatives, as well. Dairy is extremely easy to get as it’s widely available, it’s not the only way to get it, for sure.

I understand your position, I don’t agree. There’s dairy industry propaganda I agree with that. You don’t think your position is anchored in privilege, though? Like you’ve got the ability to “expose” the dairy industry through using inflammatory language and representing standard industry practices as “rape” and “stealing”. That’s your perspective.

I see cows and other animals as living beings, but I also see them as food. You’re free to look at others that consume meat and dairy products as supporters of animal abuse, I don’t agree.

Context is important, for sure, and you have a life experience that is different from my own. I think what comes in here is a fundamental disconnect between the realities of mass scale animal agriculture and subsistence farming or hunting. Most vegans grew up thinking of animals as food, and cultural differences and traditions are really important to acknowledge and respect. And yet, again, if and when we have the privilege to be able to choose, we have the ability to choose something different. People will do a lot of things to avoid feeling guilt, and even though I don’t believe you would need to feel guilt for eating animals to survive, actively avoiding engaging with the reality of a situation to avoid uncomfortable feelings is Big Ag’s sweet spot. They will do pretty much anything to get people to avoid feeling guilty. Like I said, I cannot pretend my choices cause no harm (I drive a car, have an Amazon prime membership, etc). I know that in those instances I am prioritizing my convenience over the greater good. I feel guilt about that. Veganism is just a no-brainer for me, because the violence is on such a giant scale and I have the ability to opt out as much as I can. You get to make whatever choices make sense for you.

I can’t be sure what OC meant, but I don’t know that they were saying no breeder loves their animals. My reason for thinking most breeding is unethical, for example, is the massive amount of dogs who need homes who are instead euthanized (390,000 dogs are euthanized each year in the US).

If you’re in the US, I’d recommend calling your state’s Humane Society, as most have a law enforcement arm for investigating animal abuse. Thank you for caring, and also remember your safety is important as well - if your neighbor has already threatened you, don’t completely ignore your own safety while navigating this.

Ah, yeah that makes sense. I agree. Breeding, for 90%+ of the breeders out there, shouldn't be their main business. They dont have the time, the money, or the kindness required to make it ethical. Plus, a surplus of puppies means the good ones in the rescue shelters are ignored by most because they'd rather raise a puppy cuz they're cute. Puppy stage is relatively short though, and not everyone intends to keep it for the entirety of the dog's life. It's very sad.

Dont get me wrong, puppies are amazing! I plan to get one for my daughters when they are a little older. However, that dog will be part of our family. Not just a hobby. Also, my family and my husband's family have rescued multiple animals over the years.

Often time dogs who where strays and lived on the street have been so well socialized and jaded lol, they end up being the most chill dog ever.

Only problem is they can have a bit of a tendency to wander, they don't have that "where's mom?" Baby duck thing that dogs you have had since a puppy do.

It can be nice sometimes though, less seperation anxiety. You just have to always make sure they are on a leash