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t1_j15jm3a wrote

Reply to comment by in Parents, students take issue with handling of violence at Medford High School: Students walked out of class on Wednesday to protest what they described as an unsafe learning environment. by

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t1_j15s8pl wrote

And how much is this shithead preventing others from learning? I say take him out and let others who don't stab people learn more.

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t1_j15xin6 wrote

As a teacher, this is one of my biggest gripes. We have students with behavioral problems (not this extreme) that require near constant levels of support. I get wanting a less restrictive environment, but the conversation is always about the student with the problems, never about the other students negatively effected.

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t1_j16jrww wrote

My father (principal of nearly 15 years) said his crowning achievement was separating the shithead kids from the good kids and raising test scores by some insane amount.

Had to be done slowly and in a way that raised no eyebrows. But he did it and the good/decent/on the border kids made out huge and set all sorts of records for SATs/ACTs as well as college attendance and the shitty kids are doing whatever now. They got the same classes but they chose to do nothing and are now dealing with those repercussions of their choices

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t1_j16mev0 wrote

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t1_j16n6qh wrote

No, there was no profiling involved. They made their decisions and chose their paths. He always felt for them but he still never stopped trying to show them the right way despite what their parents had taught them. He once gave a kid his own leather belt when he told the kid he’d be suspended for having sagging pants and the kid began to cry. He asked why he cried and he said he had been asking his parents for a belt for a long time but they couldn’t afford one. So my dad gave him his.

Lo and behold this kid suddenly found a role model in my father and used to show up 2 hours prior to school (when my dad showed for work) and would stay an hour late just to be a gopher and learn life lessons.

By senior year he was earning grades that were going to get him in to college. Walked across the stage wearing the same belt he was gifted 3 years prior.

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t1_j16p3vc wrote

> I get wanting a less restrictive environment, but the conversation is always about the student with the problems, never about the other students negatively effected

It's $$$. School systems could send the children who exhibit violence - the ones who stab, the ones who throw chairs, the ones who grab others by the throat - to alternative schools with supportive staff who are experts in this field. But it costs more so they roll the dice that there won't be too many Colleen Ritzers or student victims.

We want amazing, incredible schools, yet we want low, low taxes. We want amazing public transportation and infrastructure for private transportation, yet we want low, low taxes. We want Mass and Cass to be safe and homeless free, yet we want low, low taxes. Etc, etc, etc...

We want an incredible society that runs smoothly, yet we half-ass everything.

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t1_j184pzw wrote

Yes this does cost money.

And yes, lots of folks are misers and losers who aren’t willing to find schools properly to deal with the problem kids.

But - Mass did just vote for a 9% surtax on incomes over $1m to raise a few billion for more education funding.

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t1_j18eg33 wrote

If the legislature holds current budget levels and ADDS that money in, we can attack some of these therapeutic and socioeconomic needs. I'm still cautious that it becomes new money in to maintain budget levels.

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t1_j15o3qb wrote

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t1_j165qup wrote

Totally, if you stab someone (intentionally), you should be in jail.

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t1_j1767cz wrote

If you read the links in the article, this kid was taken into custody but police are not commenting on what they plan to charge them with. I imagine, partly due to laws preventing the criminal record of minors being made public information. Just guessing at that last part though.

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t1_j16k4if wrote

Not in 2022! Now you just get asked nicely not to. And if you do it again? We will ask you sternly. A third time? We’re gonna tell your parents!!!

We had a 17 year old steal nearly 85 cars and do a couple car jackings. He did another carjacking a week after turning 18 and he’s doing a 5 year bid.

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t1_j184v2j wrote

I’m gonna have to agree with you.

Stabbing/shooting someone is a line that everyone knows you don’t cross.

It’s not a push, a shove, or even a punch.

You stab someone, or you pull a gun in school…that ought to always be your last day in any public school setting.

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t1_j16dusi wrote

Yeah america should double down on how it differs from every safe Western democracy. It’s clearly born out fantastic results.

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t1_j16ka8m wrote

Is this common in those areas? Are they shanking the shit out of each other over there in those homogeneous relatively tiny nations with almost zero similarities to the United States?

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t1_j16ixmo wrote

I'm a teacher and what you said is a crock of shit. If you expel a student they're sent to a different school. In a situation like this they'll be sent to somewhere with more intensive behavioral systems. I've worked at schools that had admin that resisted consequences and schools that had admins that would set limits. The schools with no consequences are madhouses. You can't teach in that situation. Students can't learn in a situation like that.

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t1_j16brdo wrote

Ummmm, not how that works. If a student is creating a learning environment that is actively unsafe for others, they can and will be removed. The laws are very clear and what is allowed and not allowed and what services are required.

Source: I have had students no longer in my class after being excluded from school for violence (they were provided tutoring), tutored students who were excluded from schools, and attended meetings regarding the legality of students exclusion from schools.

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t1_j16eie8 wrote

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t1_j16jats wrote

Controversy lies in so many places in society. For some the earth’s status as an oblate spheroid is controversial. When we lend the air of “controversy” to the arguments of those who hold little to no stake in something we are being disingenuous.

I could posit that all sorts of things about which I have little stake or expertise are controversial, but that would not make them so to those with experience in the matter.

Is the use of exclusion in school discipline controversial for a whole breadth and depth of reasons? Sure is. Is the immediate exclusion of a student if that “student’s continued presence in school would pose a specific, documentable concern about the infliction of serious bodily injury or other serious harm upon another person while in school.” controversial? Nope. In fact that quote is straight out of the latest update to MA’s regulations on school exclusion, one’s which lean heavily on non-exclusionary discipline. As an educator and someone who wants what is best for my students, they (and I!) should not be forced to try to learn (or teach!) in the presence of someone who poses a specific risk of violence.

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t1_j16jw69 wrote

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t1_j16kp8b wrote

Sweet Jesus did you read the first two paragraphs!? You would be standing there at the trial of Galileo going, “dude we get it, but those guys keep yammering on about geocentrism, the controversy is real!”

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t1_j15kyf5 wrote

I couldn't find that quote in the article. So, I'm unsure where it's quoted from.

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t1_j15xm3a wrote

So you would let a young Jeffery Dahmer type stay in class after he tries to eat a student? Would it be a call for concern for you if he’s not learning? Are you alright?

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