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BGFalcon85 t1_jeddt0w wrote

Dopamine is like a treat for your brain, and not always for things we would consider "good." The serotonin-dopamine feedback loop is the good feelings.

Anger and aggression feelings trigger adrenaline and noradrenaline/norepinephrine, but that rush of heightened awareness can also cause a dopamine response. People can get addicted to anger and aggression because of it.

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[deleted] t1_jeeto00 wrote

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RockstarAgent t1_jefm4bl wrote

Does this explain people who love to have angry sex - or like to fight to then have angry makeup sex?

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ADDeviant-again t1_jefz9k8 wrote

Partially, for sure. Psychology is pretty complex, but definitely a component.

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WartimeHotTot t1_jegyijz wrote

It might explain why people become addicted to news/social media that enrages them but not so much to feel-good content.

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Reinhardt56k t1_jefskq3 wrote

Forget makeup sex, have you ever had angry sex? Hands down the winner.

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[deleted] t1_jedfqdn wrote

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[deleted] t1_jedghbk wrote

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[deleted] t1_jedoea2 wrote

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[deleted] t1_jedvxa3 wrote

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MurkDiesel t1_jeek6r3 wrote

>People can get addicted to anger and aggression because of it

yep, they're called football players, they get business degrees and run corporations

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whatisthishere t1_jeexdle wrote

What I’ve noticed playing football in my teen years is the kids that say they should be the quarterback, usually aren’t the best pick for that position, but they want it. Then they aren’t very bright either but they want to be a doctor or stock fund manager. They have a personality where they want the most glamorous positions.

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More-Grocery-1858 t1_jeexy5n wrote

The ego is an effective substitute for talent in the minds of the deluded.

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zestful_villain t1_jef6tg0 wrote

That sentence is so quotable. Props to you if thats your original.

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More-Grocery-1858 t1_jef7geg wrote

I've been saying this in other ways for a long time, but this is the most concise I've got it.

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heyheyitsbrent t1_jefhrqg wrote

That is a nice succinct way of framing the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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starion832000 t1_jefbusm wrote

I love how literally everyone that causes a dopamine response in the brain can become addictive, yet Reddit blows up on me every time I suggest that guns are addictive.

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Future_Club1171 t1_jefvzns wrote

Technically, but addictive in the same way working out, watching movies, or a book can be addictive. Basically it’s just your go to source for dopamine, but for the most part sources can be interchangeable. I.e someone who is addicted to gun could probably scratch that itch with a fps game or action movie (on a stimulus basis at least). This does differ from chemical addiction cause while the initial spark is from dopamine, the other chemical triggers makes it stick differently. If you are chemically addicted to nicotine for instance you ease it just from other stimuli, since it’s specifically the nicotine your body is missing.

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MSeager t1_jegoi0w wrote

Yeah and with addiction vs hobby, it comes down to where you are getting that dopamine “hit” from and how much. If you have lots of places (hobbies, social interactions, pets, etc) you only need a little “hit”.

If the only thing left in your life that gives you that dopamine “hit” is say, gambling, and you need to do a lot to get the same “hit” as you used to, that’s an addiction.

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Searloin22 t1_jeh3jhi wrote

If I had to give a singular "anger chemical" it would be glutamate.

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DestrucoMode t1_jeg1jzi wrote

I never knew that you could actually get addicted to anger and aggression

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BGFalcon85 t1_jeg21h8 wrote

Addictive chemicals just shortcut the process by dumping dopamine. It's the same mechanism that causes e.g. gambling addiction.

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Hefty-Set5236 t1_jedctnd wrote

I'm not sure about the cause and effect, but epinephrine and other chemicals that are released by the adrenal gland are elevated when you're angry. Some emotions are caused not by chemicals, but by the lack of them, like depression. Anger may be the same. A lack of serotonin can cause irritability, that could easily lead to anger. Anger is associated with the flight or fight survival response, which is why the adrenal gland is involved.

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Captcha_Imagination t1_jeefoh8 wrote

Anger/rage is also a dopaminergic activity and that's why a lot of society now is addicted to anger and outrage, often fed by the 24 h news cycle

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0xF00DBABE t1_jeet707 wrote

This. Dopamine isn't the "feel good" neurotransmitter, it's the motivation neurotransmitter, and it can definitely motivate you to anger.

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leefvc t1_jefg4v3 wrote

Anger’s primary function is a catalyzing emotion

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DoctorMobius21 t1_jedqw6x wrote

Hormones dude. Adrenaline and cortisol are both responsible for fight or flight and they are the hormones involved in response. Anger is triggered by the brain, which releases those hormones, which escalates the anger. If you are not careful, you end up with a positive feedback loop which can result in rage. Learning to control anger is a important life skill. Otherwise, we’d all just kill each other whenever we get angry.

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melissandrab t1_jeg82hb wrote

Don't forget outsized surges of testosterone, and/or estrogen.

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virusofthemind t1_jedzfu1 wrote

Vasopressin enhances aggression. It's linked to the serotonin system in a convoluted way to provide a mechanism for enhancing and suppressing aggressive behaviour.

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fubo t1_jef5vxs wrote

Dopamine isn't used only for reward signaling. It is also used for aversion. "Yum, let's get more of that!" and "Ick, let's stay away from that!" are both incentive-driven thoughts.

And it's also used for other things, too. Parkinson's disease is treated with drugs that activate dopamine receptors, but L-Dopa isn't an addictive drug.

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HealingBoy t1_jee74m7 wrote

Estrogen + cortisol can also be a cause of agressivity. Many combinations possible with adrenaline, noradrenaline, not enough serotonin, dynorphin...

The brain is very complex !

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mvgr t1_jeehpl8 wrote

I believe oxytocin, the "love" chemical, also contributes to anger (or at least defensive behavior) against out-groups. The logic here being that you love your in-group so much you hate out-groups.

Source: https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1189047

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wolfcede t1_jefw0an wrote

You didn’t want a psychology answer but it may help to compare two beliefs among emotion researchers. One is anger is a primary emotion and the other is anger is a combination emotion.

I’d propose a third which is that much of what we describe in behavior observations of anger is a combination and very rarely is it pure anger without scorn (disgust) or aggression (with anticipation).

Plutchiks wheel distinguishes combination emotions with primary emotions and puts anger as one of eight primaries. Others speculate that what we are observing as the category anger is actually almost entirely a shit sandwich of fear, disorientation, boredom, approach, avoid, enjoy, not enjoy.

Sometimes it helps to take a step back and realize that it’s hard to even describe anger as pleasurable or not. An approach emotion or a retreat. Advantageous or a liability to a sense of well-being. So that may begin to clue you into the need for more complicated models than a single hormone or chemical.

It sounds like you were looking for more of an ELI5 chemical analysis of hormones in balance such as adrenaline v cortisol oxytocin v dopamine v serotonin testosterone v estrogen.

There’s no topic that’s done less justice by an oversimplified ELI5. Think of all the absolutes that have made us worse for understanding how these function as single chemicals rather than more as combinatorial fractions.

For instance take the commonly held belief that XXY males fill prison halls because of absolute testosterone. That’s not the case. If it was the case the measure would be total testosterone for determining prison wings but it actually matters much more what your testosterone balance is with estrogen.

With anger it may be appropriate not just to think of ratios of the anger related hormones (norepinephrine - dopamine etc.) with the other related chemicals being compared one at a time. Anger compared to the others with each having one on one ratios, but rather three coordinates; X Y and Z. Then using some of those coordinates to be ratios themselves such as the following xyz coordinates -

X cortisol : Y adrenaline : Z testosterone to estrogen.

I don’t have a solid answer for you with even a half way decent or better model than the 101’s. I just have a hunch it will take some measure that is equally or more complicated.

I think Robert Sapolsky took one of the first stabs at making these complexities available to the general public in his book Behave. But good luck if you aren’t deeply really interested in the topic. Behave is no ELI5.

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Intergalacticdespot t1_jegsgdh wrote

Anger is a masking emotion? I mean, usually our feelings are hurt/our ego is damaged, and the outrage and feeling of being attacked triggers an anger response? This is the mechanism they taught us in conflict resolution classes and it works for those situations. I'm not sure how medically/psychologically accurate it is, which is why I ask.

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tryingunicorn t1_jeh0xhs wrote

Reading this whole post and a bit more of your post history, I've decided I want you to read write me bedtime stories.

LE: Not because I find that they would put me to sleep, but because they're amazing.

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[deleted] t1_jegjk3x wrote

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explainlikeimfive-ModTeam t1_jegxyj2 wrote

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Saeryf t1_jefsfpw wrote

Allergy-wise, I'm allergic to "Nemantine" which had me absolutely irate at the tiniest perceived thing.

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_eta-carinae t1_jefw69e wrote

do you mean memantine, the antiparkinsonian medication? all i could find when i looked nemantine up was that, with a few websites, most in foreign languages, that listed nemantine where it seemed either to be a typo or alternate generic name

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Saeryf t1_jefwqqq wrote

Ah, Memantine is probably the one although I do usually get generics so who knows, lol. It was being used for migraines or insomnia or something at the time.

They wanted me to "try to acclimate to it for a couple of weeks" when I was living with 2 domestic abuse survivors and was already setting off PTSD in the first couple of days.

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SeveralBadMetaphors t1_jefwgg1 wrote

I’m by no means an expert, but I think what you might be looking for is the hormone called grehlin.

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Imperium_Dragon t1_jeg1p11 wrote

The simple answer is that neurotransmitters can activate different pathways depending on the receptors, how parts of the brain are working (such as the hypothalamus), and the affected organs. So dopamine could make you happy and angry, as well as serotonin and norepinephrine.

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Competitive_Thing_89 t1_jeg44kd wrote

Amygdala seems to be related. Do not know if it release any chemical tho; >Charles Whitman lived a fairly unremarkable life until August 1, 1966, when he murdered 16 people including his wife and mother. What transformed this 25-year-old Eagle Scout and Marine into one of modern America’s first and deadliest school shooters? His autopsy suggests one troubling explanation: Charles Whitman had a brain tumor pressing on his amygdala, a region of the brain crucial for emotion and behavioral control. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-responsible-are-killers-with-brain-damage/

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[deleted] t1_jega8wu wrote

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explainlikeimfive-ModTeam t1_jegaax6 wrote

Please read this entire message

Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):

  • Top level comments (i.e. comments that are direct replies to the main thread) are reserved for explanations to the OP or follow up on topic questions (Rule 3).

Anecdotes, while allowed elsewhere in the thread, may not exist at the top level.

If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the detailed rules first. If you believe it was removed erroneously, explain why using this form and we will review your submission.

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penguinfu30 t1_jegwtiv wrote

I know people who tend to anger more frequently and quicker when on prednisone. For a while I was taking keppra for seizures and had a similar effect, really sucked as I’m so not that type of person.

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SirReal_Realities t1_jedkd4d wrote

I wonder what the mechanism of rabies is like? It causes extreme aggression in animals.

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chimpaflimp t1_jedmvxs wrote

It's a virus that passes through saliva, infecting the spinal column and hijacking the central nervous system, making those with it bitey in order to increase the chance of spreading it further.

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iCameToLearnSomeCode t1_jedn00j wrote

A virus is a chemical, it's not alive and it's not doing anything for any reason.

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SeattleCovfefe t1_jednl7l wrote

The line between “alive” and “not alive” is somewhat fuzzy and viruses straddle that line even though we classify them generally as “not alive”. They don’t have their own energy metabolism but they do have their own genetic material, and undergo evolution and “survival of the fittest” in the same way as life does. So the virus has evolved to “make” its hosts aggressive because it helps it spread. In a sense you can say that the virus does have a “reason” to do so so that it can reproduce.

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KeyboardJustice t1_jedoas7 wrote

Teach a bit of code to copy itself with errors, give it selective pressure over millions of years, and... Bam! You've got a self writing program for hijacking mammals and making them bitey.

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iCameToLearnSomeCode t1_jedodum wrote

>In a sense you can say that the virus does have a “reason” to do so so that it can reproduce.

Viruses do not reproduce.

They are a chemical that your body replicates when given the chance.

Saying that the virus makes people aggressive to spread itself is disingenuous at best and completely the ignores the topic.

The virus doesn't make people aggressive, it causes swelling in the brain and damage to neurons required to think rationally. This results in people becoming afraid, people who are irrational and afraid become aggressive because the fight or flight response is triggered by these stimuli.

The flight or fight response is caused by a huge rush of adrenaline and cortisol which is the actual question OP was asking about, the chemicals involved in emotions and feelings.

The only thing the Rabies virus is doing is killing your brain tissue, the symptoms of that coincidentally make spreading the virus more likely.

It would be like saying chlorine reacts with your skin to cause a rash, it skips all the important parts of why rashes form on contact with chlorine and implies an agency that chlorine doesn't have.

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SeattleCovfefe t1_jedov9v wrote

You’re right that viruses don’t “do” anything on their own, they get our cells to do things for them. But calling a virus a “chemical” (which usually implies a substance composed of a single type of molecule) is also overly simplistic. The genome of viruses can be quite sophisticated and can instruct our cells to do lots of things that are to the virus’s benefit, like making certain chemical messages that interfere with the functioning of our immune systems, helping the virus to evade detection.

A prion is closer to what you’re describing, consisting of truly just a single protein.

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chimpaflimp t1_jee6fls wrote

The information I supplied came directly from the CDC website.

Viruses infect cells and use the host cell to spread itself to other ones. They're preprogrammed to replicate by the most efficient available means, which in the case of rabies is biting, as it spreads though saliva.

You're not more correct, you're just pedantic.

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Chromotron t1_jeezofz wrote

They are not even pedantic, they are just wrong. Even pedantry would be about objectively true statements instead of pushing the opinion that "viruses are nothing more than chemicals" like that means anything.

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iCameToLearnSomeCode t1_jee71mo wrote

The whole topic of conversation here is brain chemistry, you're ignoring the topic in your answer by giving answers like that.

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Chromotron t1_jeezh5y wrote

> Viruses do not reproduce.

That's nonsense. They do, by hijacking cells. Do humans not reproduce because they need external air, water and nutrients? Heck, do men even reproduce if they just "hijack" women to grow the little things?

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m7samuel t1_jefqexa wrote

Viruses are not "a chemical". They are comprised of multiple "chemicals", if you want to call them that, including proteins and genetic sequences.

By the logic you're using here you might as well call a skin cell "a chemical".

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Chromotron t1_jeez1w3 wrote

They never said that viruses are alive, so I have no idea why you even mention it. And it doesn't matter anyway, unless you can show me an objective universal definition of that word which at least a majority of relevant researchers can agree on.

Being alive and having a "reason" is not the same. A complex but definitely not alive machine like a car has a purpose and does it's functions for a reason. Ultimately, all things do what they do for a "reason", be it just the laws of physics.

If instead you meant "reason" in its second meaning, based on consciousness, then it fails just as well. Bacteria are considered alive by almost everyone, yet they have no mind to speak of. They don't reason with themselves at all, they just do like a bio-machine.

If you think that it matters if viruses or prions are "alive", then you are wrong. It simply does not matter, what counts is what they do (with or without "reason"), and that is exactly what the post your responded to described. No researcher would suddenly change their approach for treating or preventing rabies or covid if you or anyone else decides they are (not) alive.

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wolfcede t1_jefxp64 wrote

I heard rabies described as an experience of being thirsty for water without the ability to be satiated. So no matter how hydrated the rabies infected mammal is, they see you as standing in the way of them and the last mud puddle in the Sahara. That’s why they have an irrational instinct instinct to tear through you or anything else in its way. Similar to how you would tear off the branches of a fallen tree to get to your goal. Just instinctively acting to get an obstacle out of your way.

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M0ndmann t1_jedo0ra wrote

Have you never met a woman? Badum tssss

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