Submitted by SlowestSundew7 t3_zzbksh in headphones
I've tried applying the Harman Target as seen below, and it just amplifies the bass while killing those great vocals the HD6xx lines are known for (it takes away all body from vocals). Anyone else had this experience? Am I doing something wrong?
WORD.
not everything had to bee tuned harman
For what’s it’s worth I don’t like the Harman curve on any of my headphones.
IEF Neutral gang!
I don't like the Harman target on my HD650s. I agree that it takes away the magic from them.
They ARE Harman target except for bass and a bit of mid-treble. I've tried to tune them closer to Harman target and got almost no difference in perceptible sound - more air, more low quality subbass (because distortion) and that's basically all.
u/SlowestSundew7, Well the Harman is a preference target... Which not all people like but my observation here is you're using the worst type of EQ possible for Harman... don't use Graphic EQ Presets for Harman... Please get a different app....
Equaliser APO with Peace GUI is the best bet (Iassume you use a PC)
I can send you parametric EQ presets after you install the two exe files
We don't need to apply a certain 'sound' to all sets. The HD660S are a culmination in years of understanding audio by Sennheiser. For my personal preferences and by accord a number of others, these are the best tuned headphones I've heard, even more so than a Focal Utopia.
These are wonderful keep that icky Harman* stuff away!
*j/k obviously but people give it far too much cred. I also enjoy Harman too.
These things are amazing, and easy to drive, too. I've never had my windows volume past 12% for these things and I'm just driving them off my motherboard
They 660S are finally getting there place in the sun. Similar to when the 650 was introduced as a different flavour to the beloved 600/580 series.
Doesn't the 660 follow Harman quite closely? 600 does and that's pretty close tuning to a 660
It is mostly the lower end tuning that differs. Now that said I’ve never pumped up the bass on the 660S and it may sound great but I’m fine with most dynamic drivers rolling off a bit on the subbass. In a lot of ways larger amount of bass from Harman tries to make up for the lack of tactile bass that we would feel. It is more engaging.
Yeah i'lld love to use a subpac with a dynamic like a 600 and set it to take over where the bass rolls off. You're really lucky to have a cool setup!
yeah, that's what the harman target does, it's what the average consumer likes, not what the average HD600S enjoyer likes
That’s an interesting idea. I never considered who contributed to the Harman target. I assumed audiophiles/headphone enthusiasts but maybe that’s not true?
No. Several hundred random people surveyed across the world with varying ages and hearing experiences. Both trained and untrained listeners.
If that's what the average guy in here likes to listen to i am noping the fuck out of this subreddit
It’s not.
It's really poorly explained as who these schmucks are... not enough data.
Who is the average consumer? It's like, you don't believe in God? Look and behold the bible.... it's written in it! Therefore you must believe in God, and obey the writing.
Like people parrot this harman pitch, but bleh, it's just an echo.
Like the others said, graphic EQ are not accurate. Also, avoid adjustment above 5k - adjusting those bands always ends up sounding far worse than just leaving them alone
Maybe the Q factor is too wide for the bands. Try something like Wavelet. It has presets from Jaakkopasanen built in
Also, you don't have to apply all of them. If you like the headphone, but maybe you just wanna add a bit of low end, you can borrow only those "bands" or use them as reference points to change the sound. I've had success doing that
My theory is that brands design their headphones to fit the sound signature they want. So other brands that are more loyal to the Harman target will have headphones that sound better with the target applied.
You might not like Harman Target. I don't like it myself, makes the bass too overpowered and ruins the sound stage extension in my opinion
Harman target curves are all too bass-heavy IMHO.
IEF NEUTRAL is my ideal.
I've always been a diffuse-field man myself.
Harman incorporates a dip in the upper bass-lower mids, which is part of where the 6X0 line gets it’s beloved vocal tonality/characteristic.
I personally don’t find Harman bad, but it’s not quite my actually preference. Tad bassy, tad lean /pulled back in the mids, and a tad sharp around 10-11k for my ears. It feels kind of like a step towards v-shaped/U-shaped, and I like my mids too much for that.
Wow, you're completely right. I just tried setting the dips in upper base/lower mids and it gave the body back to vocals. Overall it feels exactly how you described still, a bit of a u shape
I didn’t personally like the 660S EQd to Harman but Oratory’s Optimum Hi-Fi preset ended up being closer to my preference. Slight bass boost (though still rolled off a bit) and a small lift in the treble. Sometimes I’ll nudge the treble back to the stock tuning depending on what I’m in the mood for.
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In general I don't think I'm going to do a better job coloring the sound of gear that was tuned by professional audio engineers, but YDY; HFPTS.
There's no need to touch anything besides bass when it comes to the HD6x0 series. The mids and treble don't need fixing.
You cant just use someone elses eq settings that they used on a completely different speakers. They used mics to calibrate. They used crossovers to get the tune. You and everyone else need to just eq to taste. Not a curve you cant measure for. With a mic.
I didn't like harman target on the 660S as well for the same reason as you, felt like it ruined vocals. I'm using Amirm's eq (only 3 bands) and like it a lot, it keeps the intimate vocals and gives a needed bass boost. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd660s-review-headphone.34755/
Well I tried these AutoEQ curves for my headphones - DT 770 pro, Airpods Pro, Shure SRH240A and I just prefer the headphones as they are.
I don't understand why everyone is so in love with these presets (Oratory for example, but I also tried Crinacle and some others, and also SoundID Reference).
The 6X0 series is tuned really close to the Harman Target, except in the bass, as expected from open backs.
If you want to tune your headphones to a certain target, use the Headphone comparison tool in crinacle's website and export it to Peace. Slide equalizer are too unreliable.
You don't "apply" a Harmon Target. Products are generally tuned to it. This also depends on the type of product. For example, a headphone is tuned differently than a IEM due to how the ear and ear canal modify the frequency response.
Another thing to note is the Harmon Target varies with volume, so a single curve is only suited for a single listening level.
If you want to tune your headphones, I suggest listening to a pink noise track. Run the track at normal listening levels. Then work on the EQ. Usually as set 1kHz at the 0 point and then scale everything else from that. Your goal is to move up and down each of the other frequencies to tune the relative loudness of that other frequency range. You want 2kH, 4kHz, 250Hz, etc. to all sound the same loud as 1kHz. If you're too high in volume in an area, it will sound over pronounced, dominant against the rest of the frequencies. If you are too low in volume in an area, it would sound missing or sucked out. There will be kind of a sound void there where you don't really perceive that frequency range against the rest. You want to move the sliders up and down until each frequency range sounds equally loud, equally present as the others. One note, this test is slightly sensitive to tonal slope as in you can end up with a "flat" sounding setting that's overall tilted bright or warm. The "tuning" especially tuning just the next slider over can sound good/right along a slope. You'll have to kind of step back and compare broader distances too, for example 250Hz with 8kHz and make sure those are in balance with each other too. Play around a bit and spend some time dialing it all in. Also, I suggest doing this more than once. Tune it, and then leave it for a few days. Then come back and retune. Your perception of sound changes over time, and you are also learning what to listen for. It might take a few attempts to really get it settled in well.
Secondarily, the above is only a test of raw loudness. Perceived tonal balance afterwards highly depends on exactly how the headphone produces sound. For example, let's say the headphone uses a driver that is tight and crisp in bass response. The notes are not thick or weighty, but the volume level is there. Because the notes are thin, the overall perception is the headphone will be a little bright even though the actual sound volume is there in the bass. You might actually have to EQ up the bass a few dB to counter the lean bass notes. It can work the opposite way too. You might have harsh or aggressive high frequencies, and as a counter, you might desire to knock down that aggressive high end a touch to make it less edgy. Manufacturers do a lot of this trickery to tweak the end result into a perceived presence that might be realistically quite unbalanced and colored. It might just be the ideal compromise for the characteristics of the driver and product design.
I don’t even bother with EQ on my Sennheisers. I could never get them to sound any better than it’s stock tuning. Any adjustments to the EQ seems to make my HD 600 and 660S quite muddy.
Direct answer - you didn't tune your headphones to Harman target because you need a parametric equalizer AND some time to tune oratory1990 base preset for your headphones.
Indirect answer - ANYONE who dislikes Harman target just never equalized their headphones correctly to it. Correct Harman target sounds absolutely beautiful - just like big speakers playing a lot of details.
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ku1185 t1_j2aqxdk wrote
These graphic EQs are not that precise. If you put these in yourself, it's probably not as close to the target as you think.
That said, I just don't like the Harman tuning. Too bassy, too shouty, and oddly dark sounding.