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thedecentshepherd t1_iuiq7af wrote

With a License, they can then apply for insurance. It is not the job of an insurance company to determine the legality of an undocumented resident.

This was meant to be a reply to u/dreadedtrash

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Dreadedtrash t1_iuismnv wrote

I was just wondering if any other states had given undocumented folks license's and if they were able to get insurance. I honestly haven't done enough research to have a strong opinion one way or another this is why I asked. Although I think it's a stretch to call it a health issue as the article does.

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thedecentshepherd t1_iuistl2 wrote

12 states and DC have done it. And undocumented immigrants there can get insurance

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Dreadedtrash t1_iuiu599 wrote

Thanks for the information. I was unaware that it has been done in other states.

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thedecentshepherd t1_iuiu92l wrote

While we like to think Massachusetts is at the forefront, sometimes we fall behind

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Dreadedtrash t1_iuimsz3 wrote

Question: Will the undocumented people be able to get car insurance? What insurance company is going to want to insure an undocumented person? I could be wrong, but isn't a requirement to have insurance if you are going to drive?

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Balsac_is_Daddy t1_iuiq4ck wrote

Do you really think auto insurance companies care who is paying them? Why wouldnt they insure an undocumented person? If said undocumented person has a vehicle they wish to insure, any company will gladly take their money.

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Dreadedtrash t1_iuis54g wrote

Yes insurance companies are quite picky about who they insure. They want to know about drivers education, how many years experience driving, prior accidents, prior tickets, etc. For the insurance company it is just a gamble will you give them more money than you cost them.

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Balsac_is_Daddy t1_iuisrsp wrote

You dont even need a license or driving record to insure a car. All you need is a car to insure a car. And money!

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Dreadedtrash t1_iuitybj wrote

Well you don't but the insurance company is going to want to know who the primary driver and any other drivers of the car are. For the primary driver at least I'd imagine that they do a check for license/tickets/accidents.

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LollyTotlkyWondrr t1_iujtdli wrote

It’s called insurance for a reason. Its not just about the money like you said but making it worth their while and an undocumented person might not be that. I can see them argue a person like that might be an unstable source of income due to poor support system, legal status, etc

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oceansofmyancestors t1_iuj06fw wrote

I think it’s a requirement if you own or finance or lease a car

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Dreadedtrash t1_iuj0u68 wrote

It is a requirement(in MA) for all cars driving to be insured. This information is on your car registration. I believe that there may be 1 or 2 states that don't require insurance at all.

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Stoneberger t1_iujnm2f wrote

This will also stop people from driving without a valid license. The excuse of no SSN goes away and the vehicle can be properly insured by a person who can then be held accountable in court for breaking the law. Currently the courts can’t do anything

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[deleted] t1_iuig47s wrote

[deleted]

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nattarbox t1_iuigk2q wrote

Only citizens can vote. They wouldn't be able to register.

There are some local election exceptions.

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[deleted] t1_iuiiq15 wrote

[deleted]

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thedecentshepherd t1_iuimhu6 wrote

While they should opt out of registering to vote, the RMV and other automatic registration methods then submit the application to the relevant local election official. The election official then has the duty to certify citizenship and their right to vote.

If they do not have the right, then they are not added to the list and usually are told so

Edit: further clarification

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Wise-Craft2113 t1_iuin48p wrote

Interesting information. Thank you. Do the local authorities actually do that or do they just add them to the voter roles?

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petepont t1_iuipd74 wrote

Yes, the local election official follows the procedure to check whether they're eligible to vote, since that's literally their job

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thedecentshepherd t1_iuippov wrote

And further there is a yearly training in Mass about how to go about it

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petepont t1_iuipzuq wrote

That user is over here JAQing off

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thedecentshepherd t1_iuiqrm4 wrote

I'd suggest them to read through Mass General Laws c.51

www.mass.gov/lists/Mass-general-laws-c51

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Wise-Craft2113 t1_iuirgjr wrote

Does it document a process? Send me an exact link to the process please if you know how it works.

This is a legitimate question. Downvote all you want.

Please note i never said i was opposed to the issuance of these licenses for undocumented applicants.

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thedecentshepherd t1_iuitb5b wrote

You could contact the Secretary of States office, they may be able to answer these questions.

I could only find the duty of the roles of the registrar and what they're to do. It did not include how they go about it. Unfortunately only have time to skim lol

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petepont t1_iuity9x wrote

It actually does, in section 42H

>Registrars of voters in cities and towns shall receive completed affidavits of voter registration from registration agencies, from individuals and organizations conducting voter registration, through the United States mail, through the online portal and by hand delivery. Upon receipt of each completed affidavit, the registrars shall certify the receipt thereof and shall notify the registrant of the disposition of the affidavit. Said registrars shall add the registrant's name, address and effective date of registration to the annual register of voters in accordance with section forty-six, effective at the time set forth in section forty-two G; provided, however, that the state secretary may, by regulation adopted pursuant to section forty-seven C, provide that electronic transmission alone of the information contained in the affidavit of registration shall be sufficient for such purpose. The registrars may correct information supplied by the registrant to the extent necessary to maintain the integrity of their records. If an affidavit is incomplete or if it appears from the facts set forth in the affidavit that the registrant is not qualified to register as a voter, the registrars shall proceed in accordance with the provisions of section forty-seven. If an affidavit is dated by the registration agency or postmarked during the period when registration to qualify as a voter in a particular election is prohibited by section twenty-six, the registrant's name shall be added to the annual register for all subsequent elections and the registrars shall so notify such registrant. All records of voter registration held by registration agencies shall be available for inspection and copying by the registrars of the registrant's city or town or by summons in a legal proceeding.

But of course, that won't satisfy this person, who has now changed the goalposts to demand a precise list of steps that the Registrars need to complete, instead of admitting that the question has been answered: these applicants for licenses cannot in fact register to vote, and there is a clear process that prevents this.

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thedecentshepherd t1_iuiutfv wrote

And then it goes into further detail in Section 49

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleVIII/Chapter51/Section49

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petepont t1_iuiw7v5 wrote

And also Section 36, and some other national laws/regulations referenced there which describe the precise manner in which someone may prove themselves a citizen.

But this person wants us to provide something that says "Step 1: Go to citizensearch.gov Step 2: Type in the name Step 3:....", which is stupid

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Wise-Craft2113 t1_iuiumsa wrote

You know that is complete BS. Don't turn this into a personal attack

SHOW ME THE PROCESS THEY USE TO VERIFY THE CITIZENSHIP.

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Wise-Craft2113 t1_iuivmbh wrote

Yes. I'll do that. thank you for a reasonable answer. There must be a process. Signing an affidavit can't be enough.. or perhaps it is? I don't know but would like to know.

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petepont t1_iuisww5 wrote

Your question has been answered, and that link includes the process and requirements. Go ahead and read through it

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Wise-Craft2113 t1_iuir6om wrote

So do they ask the applicant to come and present documentation? What is the process. That's all i'm asking.

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Wise-Craft2113 t1_iuihr78 wrote

So your saying they have to prove citizenship if they tick the box on the form. You know this for a fact?

"the registrar of motor vehicles may not ask about or create a record of the citizenship"

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PakkyT t1_iuisb2g wrote

To get a Real ID you need to prove you are a citizen. Therefore immigrants who get a license will only get a standard license which will clearly state it isn't a federal ID. As such there will be no "voter registration" going on with that person by the RMV.

In addition, most people here undocumented are not going to try and register to vote because "non-citizen who submits a voter registration application may be subject to deportation proceedings." and why would they go out of their way to make themselves a focus of immigration officials?

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Wise-Craft2113 t1_iuiw4z5 wrote

Understood but they will also issue "regular" licenses and it's this process i'm asking about in terms of voter registration (VR). Now perhaps they won't give that VR option unless you are applying for a Real ID, which would be fine of course and even logical.

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PakkyT t1_iuj1uxy wrote

They won't give you the option if you are not getting a real ID because "if your citizenship has not been confirmed by the RMV, MassHealth, or the Health Connector, you will not be registered to vote." And if you are not providing the documents to the RMV for a Read ID license then they can not have confirmed your citizenship and therefore they are not going to register you to vote.

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