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njdevils901 t1_j9vwntg wrote

Because subtitles are better, and dubs are awkward. With subtitles you actually get the original performance, which is why I turn off any old Italian movie when they do shitty dubbing, and when I actually can hear and see the original performances with subtitles I am on board.

Edit: If we are talking about anime in particular, I still prefer the subtitles

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warrenmax12 t1_j9vys4i wrote

But old Italian movies were always dubbed, because they were filmed without sound

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njdevils901 t1_j9vz9kp wrote

I mean there's quite a few that I've found that aren't dubbed. The Mass is Over, Marriage Italian Style, Those Sweet Creatures, Spider's Stratagem. Any De Sica movie

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warrenmax12 t1_j9w0gmd wrote

Italian movies made around those times were always dubbed. As in, they were shot without sound and then dubbed in post production. In Italian of course

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TheRealClose t1_j9w27v7 wrote

It’s still the original actors giving the performance though, and matching what they did on set.

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warrenmax12 t1_j9w2fq4 wrote

Still dubbed. And not always original actors. There were a lot of foreign actors in Italian Cinema and they all spoke their own language on set. Sometimes actors didn’t even say the correct lines. It was all dibbed after.

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Georgy_K_Zhukov t1_j9w5ui9 wrote

Like /u/warrenmax12 already noted, it depends. The "shooting language" often won't even be defined since it is all dubb ed afterwards which means all the actors simply speak in their own language, which means there might be several different ones on set, and this no single dub matches all the lip movements. The English dub might have the English speaking actors do the voice work for their parts, but voice actors are doing the other parts, and likewise for an Italian or German dub.

I can't remember the film off the top of my head, but I remember one movie, a Macaroni combat film from the '80s (they kind of all blend together. Maybe Commando Leopard?) which was a particularly funny situation as it had a German (?) actor (I think it was German) who has done the German dub for the earlier film in the series as he was established as the 'german voice' for that actor in several previous films, but now was acting in the sequel... So for consistency he still did the dub for the character he had some before, and someone else did his dub! ADR work for those Italian b films can get pretty convoluted!

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bluejegus t1_j9vzyer wrote

I mean OP is talking about Anime where all of the audio is done post production anyway. Mouths are super easy to animate to make it look like characters are saying whatever you want them to.

Live action I'll always go subs, but in anime I go back and forth depending on the quality.

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captain_cocaine86 t1_j9w5j5i wrote

> with subtitles you actually get the original performance

True but since you don't understand what they are saying all you get is the text on the screen, meaning the only difference to dub is that someone else reads said text out loud.

Subtitles lose at least as much emotions and meaning as dubbing, if not way more.

That's also why I never understood why it is preferred.

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njdevils901 t1_j9w8czi wrote

It is preferred because I would rather read subtitles than be distracted by dubbing. I'll never get dubbing as well, because it is awkward, sounds bad, and is consistently distracting

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Spiritual_Corner_977 t1_j9vylb3 wrote

considering most animes are adaptions of manga, it’s technically not an “original performance”. the original performance is the source material itself. english dub is every bit of an adaption as japanese dub. the argument for subs would be that japanese performers are more likely to perform to the nuance of the material, and set the tone for being the first adapters. it’s not because it’s the original performance though.

edit: why the downvotes? i’m right.

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egoMetalMonkey t1_j9vydm8 wrote

the translation is better and people without a reading deficiency don't experience any disruption

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WeDriftEternal t1_j9vxlb3 wrote

English language dubs are often done poorly, especially on older anime content.

Just for more completeness, while there is an insane amount of anime produced in asia, only a small sliver of that makes it to the west, but even then, a lot of it is subs-only anyways, so there isn't even a dub option

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Dude_and_The_Bug t1_j9vwh74 wrote

Because the original voices convey more emotion. Same as any other movie with a different language.

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rangeDSP t1_j9w41c4 wrote

That's only because dubs tend to be an after thought / cash grab in the older days. There's always the good dubs that are on par or even are better than the Japanese VAs. E.g. Cowboy Bebop, Stein's Gate, Kaguya Sama, and just for the lolz, Ghost Stories

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Dude_and_The_Bug t1_j9w4uz2 wrote

I don’t know. I mean, if you go to the theatre and watch a performance that you love, and then go to watch a performance of the same thing but with different actors, it always feels different, no matter how good the next performance is. For me, it’s the same with dubs. I prefer subs, and I’ve never found an exception.

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flexwhine t1_j9vxnfr wrote

hearing anime dialogue out loud in a language you understand makes you realize how terrible it is

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bluejegus t1_j9w0nev wrote

Now as someone who almost always prefers dubs this is the one critique I completely understand.

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captain_cocaine86 t1_j9w63jc wrote

I'm not an anmie watcher but this is the first reason I can really understand.

Just stumbled over the dub vs sub thing when searching for spirited away and didn't understand why anyone would choose subtitles.

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kevinb9n t1_j9vwkpx wrote

Speaking for myself, I'm gonna be reading the subtitles either way, so might as well hear the original performance...

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MUSAFIR_- t1_j9vwv88 wrote

After the story the strongest part of the anime is probably Voice acting , if done correctly then watching dub ver is actually great but unfortunately That's not the case most of the time

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Solesky1 t1_j9vxyal wrote

Even if you can't understand the language, the original actors tone and mannerisms come across and add so much to the performance that dubs just don't recapture in my opinion. Especially when it's something with absolutely terrible dubbing that makes watching it in that format impossible (see Squid Game)

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SaulsAll t1_j9vzex1 wrote

>I've read that you lose the meaning when watching a dubbed version but you lose even more with subtitles.

I dont agree with that at all. They are both translations and so will lose something, but a subtitle is not trying to match timing and mouth movement, so can change things to fit intent more.

>When watching dub you get to actually watch the movie

Half agree. some people have no issue reading subs out of the corner of their eye while keeping their main focus on the visuals. But to appeal to authority, Miyazaki preferred people watch dubbed (or at least watch the first time with dubbing) to focus more on visuals.

>how does sub improve the experience

For me, inflection. Language has a sound. The voice actors impart emotion and intention into the words, even if I cant understand the language. The timbre of a voice adds its own quality to a character that simply cant be replaced by a dubbed voice and actor in another language.

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d0nkey_0die t1_j9vxabl wrote

Spoken like a dude who enjoyed some Blackbelt Theater growing up thinking those lines and voices were real.

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Sherrdreamz t1_j9vy0tt wrote

Sub is preferred in many foreign forms or anime and TV shows and movies because it best alligns with the story and characterization of the original artist. Also many people who read fast barely take more than a second to read a line of dialogue. Most Dubbed media is very awkward and completely takes some people out of the experience. This is more applicable to live action movies and TV than Anime but still a big factor.

As with most things the more you get used to something the less you even notice it. There have been plenty of times where I have had captions on even during English speaking shows and never really noticed them.

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Koboldsftw t1_j9vy7cx wrote

A lot of good anime actually has very good English dubs, but more niche shows don’t and it used to be a lot worse

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warrenmax12 t1_j9vyojh wrote

Because Dub never does an original justice. And when you watch with subs you din’t actually only read them. You have time to read and watch what’s happening

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Sitherio t1_j9vztxq wrote

Better voice actors or at least more noticeable emotion from the native voice actors than English dubs. It's gotten better but unfortunately that's a change in the English dub production whereas the native VAs have usually always been solid choices. Also subtitles can translate directly which may clarify the original intent vs localization into a different language.

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CultureLife8213 t1_j9w0j6i wrote

English is not my first language so watching films with subtitles is all I know, im used to it. And also, japanese voice actors are on another level. Personally, I think that watching stuff in the original language lets you experiance it fully. It’s the same with books, the translated version will never give off the authors style.

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zeph2 t1_j9w13mo wrote

i always go with dubs first some dubs are good....other feel emotionless i usually wait until see someone voice sound like a machine before swapping to subs

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Desalzes_ t1_j9w1kks wrote

Japanese vas are infinitely better, once you get past the subtitles it’s always better. English just sounds goofy and the sub just always fits the characters better.

Listen to one piece luffy sub vs dub, great example of what the character should sound like vs some English abomination

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FlySure8568 t1_j9w2a0s wrote

A subtitled "Spirited Away" is a beautiful and flowing thing, where the dubbed version is jarringly discordant and distracting.

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TheRealClose t1_j9w2d7p wrote

After you watch a couple films / episodes with subs you get used to it and it won’t feel like an effort to be readings the subs.

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Sigh_o_ t1_j9w3svn wrote

  1. The voice acting industry is much more prolific in Japan. There are specialist schools students start in from high-school to become voice actors (think K-pop training but for va work) which makes the industry highly competitive and very cutthroat. A lot of the time the Japanese voice actors are just better. Think the difference between a regional sports team vs national league.

1.5 while yeah the visual is still there the way a line is read can change the whole meaning behind it. The og recording had the director there to guide lines to suit their vision of the character but a lot of the time dubbing can miss some of that original intent and lines are read in a way that’s completely different to the original intent. This can also be an issue with subs tho. When the localizer changes the dialogue and it completely changes the interpretation of the scene. IMO best way to watch something is to just learn an entire language. 2 years of hard study for a 3 hour tv show. Simple.

  1. A lot of animes are also recorded with the entire cast in the same space at the same time which adds an extra dimension to the performance and allows the actors to play off each other more. From what I’ve seen of most eng bts this isn’t the norm. There are some really fantastic eng va’s though and some shows with a full cast that I can find no fault with the problem is more often than not a single or few miscast or off voices is enough to take you out of it.

  2. As others said. Some lines in anime are just incredibly cringey to hear in your own language.

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captain_cocaine86 t1_j9w51vp wrote

I get all these benefits but they all only apply if you understand Japanese. When not the Japanese pronunciation doesn't change what you read, beaches you can't tell what or how it was pronounced.

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Sigh_o_ t1_j9x68ra wrote

When I say ‘how the words are read’ I don’t mean the literal pronunciation but the emotional performance. For example, watching comparisons a character will read a line nonchalantly when the original character read the line bitterly and that difference can change a lot of how a scene comes across. And I think emotion is something that sorta transcends language barriers. You don’t have to be able to speak another language to pick up on the emotion behind a line read.

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