This should be a national right. Americans who can't afford healthcare should at least be able to request assisted suicide to end life if they choose rather than being sucked dry of every penny they have saved while suffering.

Absolutely correct, I think there are 9 or 10 states that have dying with dignity now,it should be in every state in the country

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But only if they can afford it, because capitalist Jesus said this is the way!

It's the final kindness.

think it's wild that it's even a debate if we should be allowed to do this or not. why is bodily autonomy SUCH a hotly debated topic in the US?

it's my goddamn body, if i want to die, see ya

society is build on the misery of the underclasses and we can't let them know about the cheat code to escaping it 🙃

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My friend wrote a book called Two Arms and a Head. It was his real life story about how he became a paraplegic after a motorcycle crash. In the book he rages about the stigma of wanting to die. People didn't want to hear it, so they would just gaslight him and pretend nothing was wrong. He suffered so much and in the end he killed himself. He died all alone in secret. Would've been much better to be able to say goodbye and send him out with a bang, but no. People who are too scared to face mortality force it on the rest of us. It's so sickening. Probably one of the cruelest things you can do to someone is forcd them to live when they're suffering a nightmare reality they can't escape. I hate people sometimes.

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Also Americans who can afford Healthcare should be able to make that choice for themselves, too.

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The elite wouldn't have any wage slaves if they all checked out early.

So sorry your friend had to deal with that. Feels like a lot of suffering in the world exists just because people don't want to update their understanding of something or empathize with another's experience.

A big part of it is religion, which in my opinion, is just a tool some people use to shield themselves from the fact that life inevitably ends for us all. My friend was 100% convinced that there is no God, no afterlife, no nothing. So it was incredibly infuriating to him when people insisted he go on living for their religious morality. It's just so vile that society's religious delusion can impact the lives of others in such ways.

My mom has terminal cancer and I have very mixed feelings about this. One is selfish, which is that she hold out as long as possible so I still get to talk to her, and the other is whatever is easiest for her; which is ultimately more important to me.

I feel like this is something easy for someone to come up with an inaccurate moral judgement if they haven't experienced these circumstances for themselves.

What an incredibly brave woman.

>it's my goddamn body, if i want to die, see ya

you see thats where you are wrong kiddo. not to certain groups of people.

otherwise abortion, gender affirmation, lgbtq and every other hot button issues wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

for sure, i'm saying it's a shame it has to be this way

"certain groups of people" are awful and i wish they did not vote

Seems like a good thing for situations like this. One big hurdle that needs addressing if it is to be legal (in a widespread way) is how to determine if someone can make that decision.

A concern here is coercion. Is the person of sound mind and do they want to go through with it. Is there outside influence pushing for this outcome? Is there an inheritance that family members are seeking? Parents that don't want to be parents, ie what age is okay to be able to invoke this legal right.

It looks like this is how it is currently deploying throughout states is for people w/terminal illness etc. where there is a lot less doubt about what decision they wish to make. This is a good starting point for informing policy about making laws like this more available/widespread if needed.

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You should be able to die on your own terms. My grandmother was getting dementia, luckily she passed before it got too crazy and she stopped remembering everyone. But there’s so many other incredibly painful ailments people suffer from — you should have a choice.

Instead, medical institutions insist that you remain a vegetable and in pain, while they drain you of all your money. All that hard work over a lifetime gone, leaving nothing left to kin or family, it’s wrong, exploitive and not at all moral. A right to die with dignity is a human right, we need this nationally with federal protections.

For people who oppose assisted suicide, just show them stories like this. Either we have AS, or we have wives shooting their terminally ill husbands in hopsital beds.

“Hey please give me a better quality of life”

Nah

“K I’m gonna go kms”

Wait shit

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I'd go even further. Even if you can afford it, if you have a disease that is going to become progressively worse, whether it be parkinsons, dementia, extreme pain that even the strongest painkillers don't help or diminish your qualify of life. People should be allowed to die with dignity than suffer. Because just because you are alive doesn't mean you're living.

As long as safeguards are in place, that make sure you are of sound mind, understand exactly what this means, and doctors are in agreement that this is ok, not being forced to do it, I'm 100% in favor of this.

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Absolutely. Poor Robin Williams may have opted for that vs. hanging himself.

could probably revise to: "should be able to do what i want with my body as long as it doesn't affect anyone". killing yourself to avoid an illness doesn't affect anyone

>I don’t support the idea that suicide should be legal more broadly.

well that industry is thriving with or without the legality of the act really being involved.

should just give people more options so it's a bit more dignified

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I had a family member say that we don’t get to decide when and how we die that’s for god. My mom is very much would look into assisted suicide if she ever got sick or terminally ill but others are so convinced about god.

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If we had a functioning legislature and judiciary, it already would be.

It's absolutely absurd that the state can confer different levels of access to essential end of life care.

We are entering a period of unprecedented death. The trade press actually calls it "The Golden Age of Death", and we are going to wish we had these policies in place before we end up in the middle of it.

> Essentially the same concept as putting a pet down, it should be done to end incurable suffering.

God yes. Have you witnessed a parent go through prolonged suffering? Humans are OK with putting a pet down, but Mom or Dad? No! We will pony up $$$ for treatment after treatment after treatment only to delay the inevitable after lots of suffering. I want out when that time comes for me.

I realize that there are politicians and organizations who are opposed to this option, but are there any actual people who are against it? Like individual humans? I don’t think I’ve ever met a single person who voiced anything but support for it, and even here on the internet the comments are just endlessly in favor of this right.

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As a person who's sister took her life at 34, I will never be ok with this. You can't tell me that it was ok to do. The loss of someone you love in that way....I would never want anyone to feel loss in that way.

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A lot of states criminalized suicide because the logic was you are destroying the kings property.

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This is a false equivalence; bodily autonomy only concerns matters specific to your body. Driving a car affects the bodies of people around you, putting them in danger. When people argue for bodily autonomy, they want the right to make decisions about their body which don’t infringe on the material well-being of others.

Always bothered me that we can humanely put down animals, but humans just have to tough it out and keep that stiff upper lip.

Fuck that.

You get that glorifying with "so brave". Well thats great and maybe I want to "be brave" but maybe I don't. The only one who can judge their lifes pain and well being is themselves.

OMG! My father had demetia for a long time. His hands shriveled up and his body was like doll relative to his head. He could not form any speech and not because of the brain damage but because of the nero degeneration (granted his brain damage was such that if he could speak it would make no sense because that was the way he was the last time he had the capacity). End of life on a bed eathing through straws I so hope that is not my end.

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Rich people also succeed or attempt to kill themselves, and as with most suicidal people, it’s usually out of irrational depression, not the calculated pain that the article is about.

In the standard suicide case, a majority of people say who survive say they do not wish they had died.

Don’t try to shove everything into a class framework; there is inequality, there is exploitation, but to ignore the direct causes of things is madness.

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You joke but that is exactly that. Rich people have options to kill themselves. Easier to hide and get away with. Us? Not so much.

Yes. I worked in nursing on a critical care unit, and provided care for numerous end-of-life patients. While most families respect the wishes of their dying kin, not all of them do. Two cases stick out in my mind.

One was a woman with widely metastasized cancer who was in unbearable pain, and wanted desperately to be made comfortable and allowed to pass peacefully. Her grown daughter argued with her, then once her mom was asleep from the morphine, she rescinded her mom’s DNR and stop all (yes, all) of her pain medications because she said we forced them on her to make her agree to Comfort Measures Only (our order set for continuously titrated morphine, among other steps, to make patients comfortable and allow them to naturally pass away.) As she was her next of kin, that is very much legal for her to do once her mom was incapacitated. She said it was only God’s decision as to when her mother died. Fortunately her mom prevailed and she passed on her terms, without pain.

The second was a very old woman who literally had half of one lung left after cancer took the rest. She was in horrible pain, unable to come off the vent, was in kidney failure after prolonged mechanical ventilation, and plagued by pressure sores that developed rapidly on her super fragile skin. She wanted to die, and asked to stop all interventions, but her daughter sued to prevent us from enacting CMO (even though her mom requested it.) An injunction prevented us from giving her any narcotics until Ethics and Legal got things handled. Meanwhile, her mom straight up suffered. It really fucks with your head when you are the caregiver in that situation.

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That’s awesome. We should all be allowed to die with dignity. We treat our pets better.

Jesus…that’s just, so incredibly fucked. You have all my respect.

That hurts my heart. So sorry 😞

It’s all religion. In the US the Catholic Church is the biggest obstacle to decent right to die legislation moving forward.

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Currently most death with dignity laws require a sort of hearing where not only is the person themselves examined/evaluated but their doctors have to also testify that the person is suffering and that suffering can't be alleviated, and that the person is of sound enough mind to understand the decision they're making. People don't just walk into suicide booths like in Futurama and end it on a whim.

In fact that's exactly why death with dignity laws exist. So suicide is available with oversight to those who truly need it. Not wanting to raise you kids or your heirs wanting an inheritance would never, ever, ever pass an oversight board. Most (if not every single one) of your examples is completely absurd and shows your absolute ignorance.

If you don't know fuck all about a topic you know you can just not comment, right?

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People deserve the right to life… or death… even if it isn’t because of a terminal illness.

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I’m an atheist but I believe in preserving life. That doesn’t mean I would force that philosophical belief on someone else though. People should have the right to live or to die.

The atheist perspective tells me that there isn’t evidence that we continue to experience anything after death. We stop existing. So, we can’t experience relief from suffering. However, in life, there exists the possibility of relief or pleasure or cure in some cases.

I suffer from cluster headaches. Some people call them “suicide headaches” because they make want to die. I know what extreme suffering is.

Bodily autonomy does NOT mean "you can do whatever you want with no limits" and it doesn't mean complete immunity from the law, it means each individual has the right to choose what is and isn't forced on their body, generally in a medical or psychological sense (such as the gender you identify as). That the person controls was is and isn't done to them. It doesn't mean speeding as fast as you want or unfettered access to regulated prescription medication or the ability to do literally whatever you want in larger society with no limitations.

This thread is full of such ignorant, uninformed, absurd takes where the commenter clearly doesn't have any clue what a term actually means. I mean I get that this is reddit but how in tf can you be so ignorant about a simple concept like bodily autonomy especially when it's in the news so much lately? Too much right wing media lying to you about how scary giving people bodily autonomy would be or just stupid?

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That's a tragedy and I've also dealt with the suicide of a loved one, and they were only 18.

What people don't seem to realize is death with dignity laws are not suicide booths anyone having a bad day or suffering a treatable mental illness can just show up at on a whim and die. They involve panels and hearings involving the person and their doctors to ensure only those who are suffering with no prospect of alleviation have the option to (as the term says) die with dignity.

You can be anti-suicide and still support death with dignity, if you'd just take the time to educate yourself instead of making completely wrong assumptions based on your personal tragedy. It's terrible your sister committed suicide but she would absolutely not be eligible for "death with dignity" end of life care, she would be directed to services which could help her even if that means inpatient care.

Seriously, the number of people in this thread who have absolutely no clue what death with dignity actually is but have strong opinions against it due to their own ignorance is fucking embarrassing.

We put down our pets when they finally have no quality of life left.

But if you're a human? Fuck you, sanctity of life, suffer nobly for the rest of us because how dare you NOT keep on going with ALS or some other condition that robs you of all dignity or quality of life.

The sanctity of human life. They only care when you’re a zygote or a near vegetable

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>We stop existing. So, we can’t experience relief from suffering.

Pretty sure the part people care about is just to stop experiencing the suffering. Which dying handily takes care of.

TIL we have ten states in the U.S. that allow medically assisted suicide.

Sir Terry Pratchett suffered from early onset Alzheimer's. He was a prolific author who still made time to advocate and even make a documentary about assisted suicide.

It's tough, but it's exactly your point why such procedures should be available.

If you want to see the documentary, it's called Choosing to Die. It's on YT for free; avoiding linking in case mods/Reddit get excited.

Halfway through this now. Heavy stuff.

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I feel ya. I waited over 10 years to read it. Didn't make it at all easier. Saddest part for me was remembering how much he loved life, like more than most people. He wanted to live so badly, but just couldn't. Sending you a ghost hug rn

Even different burial options. The Catholic Church went against eco-burials because even having the option for other people was wrong for them.

But you can use machines. . . .

Nah, pretty sure they care most about a more specific child aged demographic

You know… my mom had many health problems through her life. But at the end just very recently, I think she was thinking about it. She never got any relief from pain for the last 15 years or so. She just got less and less mobile.

She had sudden cardiac arrest two weeks ago. I think she would have preferred not to go down face first and have me find her at 8:00 in the morning.

It was hard on us, she should have been able to goo with in dignity, without a bunch of people ripping a 77 year old’s nightgown off, etc..

I’m so sorry. I recently watched my mom die in her hospital bed. Though she was on a high dose of comfort meds and unconscious, it was highly traumatic. I hope the best for you, and don’t be afraid to talk about your pain with others, it helps the grieving process.

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I would never vote to convict this woman If I were on her jury. What should we do, throw her in jail for the rest of her life after she's been through one of the most f**ked up things you can imagine?

Well if god decided you get to die of stage four cancer while sucking the life and joy out of all of your loved ones, fuck god, I’m taking the kill pill.

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This isn’t the reason for this. Someone who is terminally ill is most likely not in the workforce force. It’s more religious dogma.

End the stigma then. A person in so much pain that they wish to die shouldn’t have to worry about how cousin Johnny might feel about their decision.

It is, it’s the ultimate: “You clocked out 15 minutes early, that’s a strike and you’re stealing company time!1!1!!1”

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It's such a hotly debated topic because roughly 40% of the US wants to control the bodies of everyone else.

Also making some groups of people a lot of money. (I hate that I felt I had to type this.)

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Yeah I don’t agree with that person at all

Yup! That person and I don’t agree ha

Ugh lucky. Hopefully one day it'll be like a photo both. You just plop a quarter in the machine and walk in. Boom done.

The government could just use that to kill the poor.

This is my main issue with AS.

Why should someone die just because they can't afford treatment or housing or anything? AS should only be for people who choose because of reasons other than affordability.

If someone can't afford treatment we should just pay for it instead of letting them die.

Yes, it would definitely reduce the double whammy of suffering into poverty. It should still be available for humans who don't want to linger in pain.

Thank you for the information! That's great to hear.

Yep. Thanatophobia is a motherfucker to them, and they're terrified of the concept that their existence won't matter to anything or anyone in the end, hence why they come up with increasingly crazy and desperate theological ideas (like the Quiverfull movement) in order to see if they can feel like they left a lasting mark on the world.

Yup, fuck that noise.

I've got a standing order and a signed and witnessed letter in my safe deposit box stating that if my mind ever goes and it definitely isn't coming back, the bearer of the letter has permission to off me so long as it's done in a particularly humorous or ironic way so's to get the media's attention.

I've seen what dementia does, and fuck that noise. That's no way to live.

I’ve been there for several family members passing in hospice situations and none of it was the peaceful “end of suffering” quiet death you see in the movies. In one case, I watched a family member pass mid scream (he had cancer and died over a holiday weekend so there weren’t any nurses available to come give him iv meds to make him comfortable— but that’s a rant for another time). I think a lot of people who are against it don’t realize how brutal those deaths can be and think that they’ll get more time AND that calm peaceful departure and that’s just often not the case.

That must have been tough. We had two peaceful passings, frankly. Asleep and never woke up. But years of expensive medical stuff delaying the inevitable. Someone's lifestyle slipped away and they became bitter and angry at the changes and the family more or less supported it because they were expected to. It was terrible and sad. Caregiver burnout is real.

I’m glad your family had peaceful deaths. I think everyone deserves that.

The expensive part is important to mention too… medical expenses can wipe out money that was intended to take care of family. Not that the money is the most important thing but when the difference is between family being left with enough to cover final expenses vs being in crazy debt (which can happen in states like mine, PA, where children are on the hook for those expenses), we should let the person decide what they want.

My only concession to those against it is that I agree there should be plenty of safeguards, particularly when there is money involved. But there’s no reason why safeguards can’t be put in place and people can’t get the dignity they deserve.

Our brains really struggle with these traumatic memories/events. I’m actually doing well, surprisingly.

I think some of that is because of how I see her passing… Just finally not hurting any more.

I hope you are doing well too. Thank you for the kind words.

I’m so sorry your mom went thru this. Mine died within 2 weeks of being diagnosed with cancer & while I was in shock at the time I’ve seen ppl linger years with it & im glad now she went relatively quickly.

My dad otoh died from a series of strokes & was paralysed from the neck down his last 2 years. To my shame he begged me to put a pillow over his face but I couldn’t do it. I was in my early 20s & had never killed anything. I feel awful I let him down but tbh I’m not sure I could do it now. I think him begging me to kill him is one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to deal with.

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I'm so sorry you and your mom went through that. Religion can really bring out the ugliness in people

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You want people choosing AS because they're too poor to afford Healthcare? Why not hope for free universal healthcare so that people with actual conditions other than poorness can use this as its meant to be?

I would adore universal Healthcare. I can not fathom it coming here with our countries fascination with asshat Republicans.

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