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SsiSsiSsiSsi t1_j29howv wrote

The US has a long arm when it comes to clawing back stolen funds, make sure you account for every penny of that money, Bahamas.

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greihund t1_j29p41q wrote

I'm sure that absolutely none of that was being used in illegal international transactions or tax evasion and that everybody used proper accounting measures

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RoyalCities t1_j2b75rz wrote

The funds are already being moved.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/zyruws/sam_bankman_just_cashed_out_600k_in_violation_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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DFWPunk t1_j2bgps2 wrote

He doesn't have control anymore, allegedly.

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GunpowderLad t1_j2d5ki9 wrote

The funds would not be sent to non-KYC exchanges if it had anything to do with the court.

He either got hacked or is continuing to break the law. My guess is the latter.

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asetniop t1_j29ph7z wrote

U.S. TREASURY AGENT: And how much did you seize?

BAHAMANIAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL: About three fiddy...[under his breath]...billion!

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failbotron t1_j2avxrl wrote

Well, it was about that time I begin to get suspicious. I said, "Bahamas, my boy, why do you need tree-fitty?" He said, "My imaginary friend Boo-Boo the dinosaur wants it." So I went to my tax haven's island, and sure enough, there was that damn Loch Ness Monster!

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ShellOilNigeria t1_j29rvs6 wrote

Snowden leaks confirmed the NSA was monitoring the data, including all voice calls, of every citizen in the Bahamas. I'm sure they watched it go down.

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SlimReaper85 t1_j2brfu3 wrote

How do you think his info is still relevant after it all got outed??

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Zombie_Harambe t1_j2cfyj3 wrote

Because if I trust government to do one thing, it's pump shitloads of money in 3 letter agencies

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allanbc t1_j2axpcj wrote

Yeah, I know when I'm transferring billions of dollars in vulnerable digital assets I always make sure to recite all relevant facts over an unsecured phone call, while using an unsecured web connection to do the transfer.

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ShellOilNigeria t1_j2b3prs wrote

What I said means that it includes "all data" even encrypted.

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USFederalReserve t1_j2b6f2m wrote

Capturing encrypted data ≠ decrypting encrypted data

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ShellOilNigeria t1_j2bduxv wrote

Again, I understand that but the vast majority of the population does not use encrypted data and those that do, are probably using something that is backdoored by the NSA like Tor nodes and over the counter software like Windows. Not hard to tie things together. Especially when you have a gigantic budget.

https://theintercept.com/2014/05/19/data-pirates-caribbean-nsa-recording-every-cell-phone-call-bahamas/

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USFederalReserve t1_j2bfpkb wrote

> Again, I understand that but the vast majority of the population does not use encrypted data and those that do,

iMessage is end to end encrypted, among other popular communication software. While metadata and cellular phone calls may be intercepted, I think that's a far cry away "all data".

> and those that do, are probably using something that is backdoored by the NSA like Tor nodes and over the counter software like Windows.

This is a gross oversimplification of the security surface of today. Outside cellular phone calls and SMS messaging, the majority of communication happens with VoIP/internet, which is typically encrypted.

> Not hard to tie things together. Especially when you have a gigantic budget.

It's not hard to tie together because your definitional scopes are too vague IMO.

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ShellOilNigeria t1_j2bkoy0 wrote

The Snowden documents showed that the NSA was penetrating Apple. There is an Israeli company called Cellibrite that can break into iOS products.

Lol @ fucking iMessage

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d36williams t1_j2ci91a wrote

That's a lot of faith in Apple.. I don't think you should carte blanche like that

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allanbc t1_j2czett wrote

Sure, but it's not a crazy assumption that this government agency uses an encryption that the NSA can't just walk past, especially considering they definitely know the NSA will try to look in on it.

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ShellOilNigeria t1_j2ddljz wrote

Lol who do you think the Bahamas is getting their encryption from?!

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allanbc t1_j2f7gub wrote

I would assume not the people who openly said they're spying on them.

0

SuperEmosquito t1_j2b8g8e wrote

Don't forget to use emojis regarding approving and disproving the company expense account and you'll fit right in the company culture at FTX.

They'd probably make you CFO.

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DFWPunk t1_j2bgloa wrote

Bahamian officials tried to get paid off with more of his scam coin and only arrested him when he didn't do it, so this is going to get interesting.

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[deleted] t1_j29tghn wrote

[removed]

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oh_hai_brian t1_j2aveom wrote

“These are I.O.U.s, they’re as good as money”

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Ruark_Icefire t1_j2bck18 wrote

Technically speaking all money these days are just I.O.U.s

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jparent23 t1_j2bn5pr wrote

Somebody downvoted you so I guess people don't know that a dollar bill is just a placeholder for gold in the bank

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yawetag12 t1_j2ckevu wrote

We haven't been on the gold standard for a long time. Like 50 years.

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Ruark_Icefire t1_j2cpnni wrote

Yeah we don't use a gold standard or even a silver standard anymore but I would argue that fiat currencies are still essentially I.O.U.s. Just now it means that you are owed a certain amount of goods instead of being owed silver or gold.

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yashdes t1_j2aycg9 wrote

Who took the $2.5B out of the safe???

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secter t1_j2b4y0c wrote

So anyways, that $2B we found the other day was cool

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bnonymousbeeeee t1_j2bqobo wrote

You know that floor safe where you keep 10 grand? There's 5 grand in there. Don't, make, me, wait.

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terremoto25 t1_j29m5yu wrote

They could just drop it in a bank account and earn one and a half percent. Ballpark $4.3 million a month...

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mishap1 t1_j29sq8f wrote

It's crypto. Try to liquidate into cash and the value falls to zero.

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USFederalReserve t1_j29ukkh wrote

You'd never sell it into FIAT to garner returns. You'd collateralize it for liquidity at an interest rate that still nets you a return based on whatever your strategy is. The same idea is at play when CEOs use their company shares as collateral for liquidity.

3.5 billion is a lot of money and I'd suck a million miles of dick and cup a hundred million balls for 480k. There's a financial instrument for every risk profile so in the event that these seized funds were used for passive income while being held (they aren't and won't) there would definitely be someone willing to provide liquidity on that crypto, even with consideration for it's volatility.

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fockyou t1_j29uywd wrote

>I'd suck a million miles of dick and cup a hundred million balls for 480k.

Everyone's got a price

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grain_delay t1_j29vthl wrote

Bro would really suck a million miles of dick over going to med or law school

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SharpieBass t1_j2a24vf wrote

Maybe he just really likes fellas and miles of weiner?

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Jlt42000 t1_j2a2sf5 wrote

Not even that, it’s gonna take decades to suck all that dick. I’ll just get a reasonable job making 48k a year and make that in a single decade.

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doubleboinger t1_j2a395l wrote

5280 x 2 = 10562 dicks per mile, assuming each dick is 6”. I’m going to pass on the 480k.

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Detachabl_e t1_j2a6ypa wrote

So 10,562,000,000 dicks in a million miles of dicks for ::checks notes:: $480,000. Seems like a) he'd be dead well before getting to the end of those dicks and b) that just seems like a terrible pay rate for giving blowjobs. This guy needs a business manager...or a pimp.

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creggieb t1_j2cgri0 wrote

Its only wrong to arrange work and payment for a tradesperson is when its sex

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hey-look-over-there t1_j2a7loh wrote

The good news is that there's a never ending line behind the Wendy's. Business is booming!

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gravescd t1_j2aby9w wrote

But it's not collateral if nobody wants to conduct transactions in it.

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USFederalReserve t1_j2acfvv wrote

It's a 3.5 billion dollars in the form of a volatile asset...I guarantee you there are countless individuals who would accept that crypto as collateral in exchange for liquid FIAT.

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gravescd t1_j2akrpw wrote

But IS it $3.5 billion? Was that the value today or when it was seized? Will that be its value tomorrow? Collateral is collateral because it has definable value. If the value is uncertain, then its value as collateral would be the likely minimum liquidated dollar value. When it comes to crypto, that minimum is getting closer to $0 by the day.

It just doesn't make sense to borrow against something that's losing value continuously, that's a recipe for a margin call.

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USFederalReserve t1_j2alq3n wrote

> But IS it $3.5 billion? Was that the value today or when it was seized? Will that be its value tomorrow?

This is why I called it volatile. The price fluctuates within an expected range.

> Collateral is collateral because it has definable value.

Not true. The lender of the FIAT will undoubtedly charge a risk premium-- that is how they will make money when the owner of the crypto hypothetically pays them back. It would likely be negotiated in such a way that the wallet is moved to escrow which would allow the lender of the FIAT to recoup whatever they are owed from the wallet itself before returning the difference to the owner of the crytpo.

The more volatility, the larger the risk, the more risk premium that can be charged. Say you are a billionaire investor who wants to take on a billion dollars in crypto-- you would definitely be willing to lend your FIAT with the crypto as collateral. Best case, you make free money when the crypto owner pays you back up. Worst case, you can obtain a large quantity of crypto in bulk off exchange via the middle man.

That's just the birdseye view. One man's risk is another man's opportunity.

> When it comes to crypto, that minimum is getting closer to $0 by the day.

Crypto may be overvalued but its definitely not going to 0 anytime soon.

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gravescd t1_j2b3xga wrote

Collateral IS the risk premium. It defeats the purpose of asking for collateral if the collateral is itself so risky it has to be offset with higher interest or can only reliably back a tiny percentage of its nominal value.

We literally just witnessed one of the most spectacular financial implosions since Lehman Bros because of this magical thinking that Crypto is stable enough to back real financial assets.

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USFederalReserve t1_j2b5b0r wrote

> Collateral IS the risk premium. It defeats the purpose of asking for collateral if the collateral is itself so risky it has to be offset with higher interest or can only reliably back a tiny percentage of its nominal value.

First, let me remind you that this is a hypothetical that we are discussing. That being said, the volatility is not this needle that moves from $0 and Current VAL.

If I have 3.5 billion dollars worth of BTC or 3.5 billion dollars worth of TSLA shares and I want to have 500 million dollars of liquid FIAT, I'm not going to sell 500 million in BTC on the open market nor am I going to sell 500 million in TSLA shares on the open market. I'm going to find a market maker and use the assets as collateral for a loan from a market maker. I'm going to pay them interest and likely negotiate a deal which specifies how obligations are to be paid by X date if there is not Y payments made or if the BTC/TSLA shares drop Z%.

This isn't a rare or unusual thing and it depends entirely on what the assets are, the size of transaction, as well as the private individuals involved in the deal, along with their perceived capabilities of repayment.

0

gravescd t1_j2bi8gf wrote

I understand how this works, but you're missing the point here that is specific to crypto: that its value is too volatile (and in the wrong direction) to be effective as collateral. It's like trying to get a HELOC while your house is on fire.

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Bob_Sconce t1_j2add85 wrote

>I'd suck a million miles of dick and cup a hundred million balls for 480k.

That's around 1/20th of a cent per dick. I've got a couple of extra bucks. What are you doing for the entirety of February?

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WigginLSU t1_j2aod9e wrote

A million miles of dick for less than a million bucks? You're a 50 cent a mile of dick guy? Why go with 480k after just talking about $3.5B?

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ggtsu_00 t1_j2bmb49 wrote

Same scheme is used to avoid paying massive income taxes while still having near unlimited cash on hand. Loans aren't considered income, even if you never pay them off.

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imaginary_num6er t1_j2ac82g wrote

>It's crypto. Try to liquidate into cash and the value falls to zero.

More like it's zero

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SyrioForel t1_j2abj3b wrote

Savings accounts currently pay over 3.3% interest in the US. If your bank does not offer that, switch your bank.

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imaginary_num6er t1_j2acaux wrote

>Savings accounts currently pay over 3.3% interest in the US

Which one? The highest I've only seen is 3%

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LCLogan t1_j2ansva wrote

Marcus by Goldman Sachs.

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imaginary_num6er t1_j2aphqe wrote

That too but I just realized Capital One also bumped their rates to 3.3% very recently

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sakurakhadag t1_j29o9lx wrote

Don't worry they'll keep that $2 billion safe

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cuddle_enthusiast t1_j29oht4 wrote

I’m glad they are keeping a close eye on that $1.5 billion.

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Jiggly1984 t1_j29p2if wrote

"Sorry, I blinked, but I'm glad to see that $1.25B is still there."

1

DylanHate t1_j2b6iqo wrote

I wish we could retire this joke.

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Psyman2 t1_j2bxl1n wrote

It's been a staple of Reddit for almost 2 decades now. It is in every thread that has any kind of money weight of drugs.

It will never disappear.

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Zombie_Harambe t1_j2cgbeb wrote

It's like the invisible John cena or the old reddit switcheroo

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MisterBlud t1_j2aw9dq wrote

I don’t know why people think this is sketchy.

The Bahamas have assured everyone that the 3 billion they have taken into custody will be safeguarded. The person in charge has also passed along a guarantee that none of the 2.5 billion will be touched. They even split the 2 billion in half and have two separate teams watching the dual portions of 500 million so it will all be accounted for…

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A40 t1_j29opcd wrote

Safekeep it away quick before it's only $3.50!!

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jabba_1978 t1_j2a9v3o wrote

Aaaaaaaaand it's gone.

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rauls4 t1_j2bjhl0 wrote

I really hope BC just drops to zero and we never have to hear about it again.

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Solkre t1_j2bvwsr wrote

Well if it's like the crypto I'm holding, it's worth less every day. I wonder what coins they actually are.

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Miffers t1_j2edz2q wrote

Crypto assets going down with the market, make that $3B now

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surfe t1_j2afv5y wrote

I thought there was less than 1bn at the time of bankruptcy. How is there 3.5bn now?

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cloud_coder OP t1_j2ao7zo wrote

Good question. We don't know for sure (yet) but things are a mess (bad/missing records) with complex transactions and money flows. I imagine that either one of the defendants provided information or the new CEO and his forensic accountants have identified additional funds. It could also be that was the funds that were in Bahamian firms. This will be an on-going process of discovery and claw back.

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ceribus_peribus t1_j2cxhe8 wrote

Funny, people originally gave that crypto to FTX for 'safekeeping'.

1

spinjinn t1_j2d5ahr wrote

Shouldn’t that be “bahaman” or “bahamanian?”

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NikoKida t1_j2dbkno wrote

At least the scammer behind FTX doesn’t have it. As long as he’s not using the money he stole to get out of this or pay newspapers to suck his dick, I don’t care who has it or what they’re doing with it

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skippyspk t1_j2dfvna wrote

They are preparing to send all $3.0bn to aggrieved parties.

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outerproduct t1_j2dgsss wrote

I'm glad they got all $2.5 billion of it, I was worried it was going to disappear.

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gamerzzone1987 t1_j2d9vn6 wrote

Bahamas has a weapon of mass distraction now.

0

mces97 t1_j2aawjm wrote

And what are they going to do with the 1 billion they seized?

−3

dblan9 t1_j29tsvs wrote

That is amazing that they were able to seize 2.2 I mean 1.8, I mean 1.3 billion dollars.

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