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...aaaand, their conclusion is "everyone did everything perfectly and we can blame it on the new kid"

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Would not want to be assigned to clean that engine.

Because she was told, walked behind it, was told again, and then walked near it again anyways. She had the knowledge, she had every warning possible, what do you suggest should have been done differently here?

> the ground crew huddled shortly before the Embraer jet arrived at the gate to note that engines would remain running until the plane was connected to ground power, and the plane shouldn’t be approached until the engines were shut down and pilots turned off the beacon light.

They knew the engine was still running.

> A co-worker who saw an Alabama airport employee nearly knocked over by exhaust from a jet tried to warn her to stay back, but moments later the employee walked in front of one of the engines and was pulled in, killing her on Dec. 31, federal investigators said Monday.

Getting knocked over by the exhaust and so they walked around the front.

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Bills Gates is responsible for 9/11.

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I’d be surprised if that engine was used again. There must have been damages enough to total it from this sort of incident

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I mean in theory yes but refer to this hierarchy of safety controls.

https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/16790-the-hierarchy-of-controls

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All they had was administrative. Is there nothing else they could have done?

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Why did the plane have to stay powered on? Could they not have powered it down?

That's pretty fucked. How does someone's mental process allow that to happen, assuming they're sober and not suffering a health condition?

I wouldn't be surprised to find there is a procedure/chemical that has you spinning it up slowly and spraying it. I mean ingested insects must be cleaned.

There's a lot that goes on on the ground, girlfriend used to help marshall large aircraft. When she talks about all the things they had to do on time and with a surprising amount of precision pretty close to the aircraft, in all sorts of weather, sometimes on almost no sleep... I could see how all those, plus a bad day or she just wasn't as sharp as normal that day, would result in something horrific.

It's a workplace accident, work around things that want to kill you long enough and shit happens. She was wrong to walk in front of the engine but it's not like she went cliff diving into an empty lake.

>Why did the plane have to stay powered on? Could they not have powered it down?

"An auxiliary power unit used to power the plane without using the engines was not working, according to the safety board, and pilots decided to leave both engines running for a two-minute engine cool-down period while they waited to for the plane to be connected to ground power."

Perhaps a temporary, physical barrier / fence type of apparatus could be put in place when the engines are running to avoid inadvertent human ingestion? Lines on the pavement seem inadequate and can't take into account someone's possible distraction.

I think this alerts us to the need for a modification to the safety protocols.

I can imagine. I used to do labor on 12 hour shifts, and you do get loopy when completely wrung out.

"I think this alerts us to the need for a modification to the safety protocols."

Most every safety warning and label on tools, machinery or whatever was created because somebody did something like this.

And birds too.

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Yeah planes come down over birds killing engines, a human is much bigger

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She knew the engine was on, was warned to get away from it, and walked in front of it anyway.

All the warnings and protocols in the world won't work if people refuse to heed them.

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I read the article. Why did it need to be powered for those 2 minutes?

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And because of that the ground crew was briefed about the change. Must have not really paid attention and fell back into habits.

I'm really happy to see a comment like this, because there are a lot of takes on here that seem just too simplistic. That kind of thinking will not prevent future incidents, and it is not in keeping with the human factors engineering principles that have allowed aviation to reach its current level of reliability.

Why did the person not heed the warnings?

• They could be fatigued and did not properly process the warning.

Easily mitigated with regulation. Even pilots, who are extremely well trained, trusted with the lives of hundreds, have strict hours-of-work limits, because - like any piece of equipment operated beyond its specifications - you get totally erratic results.

• They did did not adequately understand the nature of the danger. The airline did not invest sufficiently in their training.

• The warning systems were inadequate.

This is far from the first time that an engine at above idle has posed danger to ground workers - some incidents involved trained airport firefighters trying to extinguish fires. Are there adequate and obvious indicators of when the risk is and is not present?

• The interlock systems were inadequate.

It used to be common to power-back engines using the thrust reversers. This was found to be an unsafe practice and modern planes do not power back. Instead, they are towed where they need to go, to make it safer for the ground crew and the engines. A similar chamge could be made for, e.g. any non-idle operation of the engines.

• They could even be suicidal. Once again, the system needs to be examined. Is there a mental health process in place? Do circumstances permit them to do their job properly - are the ramp workers compensated enough to thrive?

The Tenerife disaster, and the NASA CRM processes that it provoked, really cemented the importance of resisting the urge to blame stupidity for a failure of the system.

Not how it would be handled. It sounds plausible in theory but in practice it wouldn’t work.

Fan blades in the various compression and exhaust stages were bent, chipped, and otherwise destroyed. Slowly restarting the engine would just cause further damage to the unit when these broken parts start moving. The forces exerted on the blades when spinning would cause them to start coming apart and potentially exiting the engine as shrapnel, although this is unlikely (engines are designed to contain a catastrophic failure to prevent this exact scenario).

There are basically two options at this point. The first is disassembling the engine and assessing the damage to determine the cost and likely hood of repairs. Something the size of a human body is going to wipe out basically every piece of internal hardware.

The second option is to just write off the cost of the engine as a loss and scrap it.

I saw photos of the accident and my money is on option two. There was literally nothing left larger than the size of a 50 cent piece. You wouldn’t even know what happened based on the photos unless someone told you.

Very sad situation and sad remind of the dangers planes pose on the ground. She didn’t suffer, death would have been instant.

Like taking notice not to approach the jet?

Hell yeah! Let's add an extruder to the liquidification process.

This. My boyfriend and I used to work at a smaller airport and have pulled an absurd number of new people out of the way of engines, both jet and piston. Tunnel vision is very real and getting the job done erases the reality of the machines.

I loaded cargo for Emery Air in the early 90's. Two shifts a day, there we're many ways to get hurt or killed if you didn't pay attention. In the summer it was hot as fuck and the jet exhaust would make you dizzy. In the winter it was colder than fuck and trying to stay warm on the tarmac was almost impossible. The noise is pretty insane as well. I wore some pretty good hearing protection and backed that up with ear plugs. Spooled up at idle on the tarmac near a DC-8 you couldn't hear shit hand signals and knowing what was going on around you and why was vital for your safety. At times it was a fun job and others miserable, but I guarantee one thing, I was always aware and respected those engines when they we're spooled up. I made a very large arc around the front and never even thought about walking behind them. Watched a single DC-8 engine suck a huge puddle off the tarmac 10' to 15' in front of it one night and it was one of the craziest sights. It also showed me why you don't walk in front of an operating jet engine. Unfortunately this person made two bad decisions that night, one that killed them. Getting knocked on your ass by the exhaust should have been the moment they realized it was time to move away from the aircraft, maybe she was concussed and disoriented after going behind it.

Jet engines need time to cool down before they are safe to power down and approach safely. For example, procedure on a 737 is 3 minutes at taxi thrust (N2 30% or less) before it is safe to switch to APU for power and shut down the engines.

Airplanes have very bright red beacon lights that are on from the moment the plane starts either engine start or pushback (whichever is first) until the moment engines have spooled down enough that the plane is safe to approach. Anyone who ever steps foot on a tarmac knows this. Theae lights are bright and you're not going to miss them.

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Prosecutors expect a Baldwin to be charged for the incident any day now.

That's just to keep the coolant system online and drawing heat away at low throttle to reduce shock on the engines?

This from back in January

I dunno. If you felt the blast from one engine almost knock you down, you would expect BOTH engines running and such.

But bottom of the article I linked, there is a comment about how these ramp workers also do other jobs...

What would you suggest?

Most gates handle various aircraft so a permanent fence isn’t plausible.

A moveable fence might work but could get blown around by wind unless it’s weighted down sufficiently, then it’s harder to move quickly.

What happens if you don’t have enough crew to move the engine fences, you aren’t going to deboard the plane? Airlines already struggle to have sufficient crew for the ramp, this would exasperate the staffing issue.

But at the end of the day, if you just got knocked down by the exhaust, why the hell would you walk in front of the engine.

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Seriously, someone would have to collect the remains, right?

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