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signedpants t1_isu0acb wrote

11-22 per district on patrol. Seems low, that's like 250-500 across the entire city. I don't actually know if it helps tho.

Edit: Would also like a more robust way to track 911 calls than simply answering them. Calling 911 after you've been t boned and your car totaled then having the operator tell you a cop won't come out unless you're hurt is not exactly my idea of emergency services, even if they answered it quickly. Obviously this is anecdotal lol.

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Scumandvillany t1_isudq8q wrote

11-22 per district seems low as fuck. There's 21 districts, you take an average, that's 350 police on average on patrol. There's not a distinction made for shifts, but it seems they're all on 12 hour shifts lately, so what, that means 175 officers on patrol in the entire city at a given hour? That is incredible. Damning actually. Maybe I'm reading it wrong and that means 350 per shift for 700 or so assigned to patrol, that's like 14-% of officers assigned to patrol. It's complete institutional failure.

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Tps64 t1_isyqoxh wrote

its probably closer to 3000 are assigned to patrol

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Scumandvillany t1_isytbiy wrote

Idk man. That's 142 officers per district, so 45 or so per shift assumes three shifts. I don't see it. At least not in my district. I've been told maybe 5 for roll calls are around.

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Tps64 t1_isytj0y wrote

district like the 1st and 5th have less, probably around 100 or so. districts like the 22nd and 35th have way way more.

and the shifts arents even. last out is lighter than the 2 daywork shifts.

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Scumandvillany t1_isyy3lo wrote

I don't see anything close to that in my district in terms of deployment

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Tps64 t1_iszghs4 wrote

yea well after days off, different shifts. people wjo work inside and people IOD, it drastically cuts it short. first is lucky to have 6 overnight most days.

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_Sebaceous_cyst t1_isubf7t wrote

Yup. Had someone hit my parked car with me in it. Was my first car accident so I called out of instinct and was told I would have to go to the station to make a report. Cop berated me with questions about North and south like you’re the cop you should know. I don’t carry a compass around. Anecdotal but I felt like a suspect for just sitting in my parked car lol.

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TiberiusDrexelus t1_isug2pb wrote

> I don’t carry a compass around

not to victim-blame in any way, but Philly is the easiest city to orient yourself in; just figure out where City Hall is on the skyline, and remember where in the city you are in relation to City Hall

it's what I miss the most while living in the suburbs

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_Sebaceous_cyst t1_isugbaw wrote

I have a sense of direction but that’s not the first thing I’m thinking of when I was just in a car accident.

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TiberiusDrexelus t1_isup2bp wrote

certainly not, especially after they made you leave the scene to report it

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ThreePointsPhilly t1_isup50w wrote

It breaks my brain trying to think how I should orient myself with this method.

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TiberiusDrexelus t1_isuqlwl wrote

>be in Graduate Hospital and need to get to Temple's North Philly campus, despite not knowing how to get there, but knowing that you're in the southern half of the city

>look at skyline, see City Hall ahead of you and to the right

>think "ok I'm looking north, City Hall is to the east, so I'm southwest of it"

>think "I need to travel east a bit, and then North till I hit Temple's campus

works really well if you know the grid too

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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_isxi7ln wrote

City Hall is central. If you're west, north, east or south of City Hall, should be able to inform the other directions any corners and traffic. It's very simple once you think about it and will benefit you in life to make note of it.

(For example, knowing if you're getting picked up on the NE of a corner, rather than just saying the intersection.

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ThreePointsPhilly t1_isyddfd wrote

I get it. Just the “anywhere in the city” part makes my brain hurt. If I’m standing in Ridge Avenue in Roxborough I’m gonna have to really think of how to orient myself.

Maybe I’m just bad with directions.

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hairlikemerida t1_isvel26 wrote

How on earth would the cop know what directions the accident occurred at? Just because the streets go a certain way doesn’t mean anything. People back up in intersections all of the time or even sometimes go up a street the wrong way if something is blocked off.

Asking cardinal directions is entirely standard. And yeah, actually, if you’re driving, you’re carrying a compass. All cars have one built in that displays on the dash constantly.

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f0rf0r t1_iswdwnk wrote

wtf no they don't

new ones maybe

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hairlikemerida t1_iswesk7 wrote

Uh, yeah, they do. All cars have a little display, whether it’s on your dash, infotainment system, rearview mirror, whatever, showing which cardinal direction you’re traveling.

It’s not an actual compass that spins around. Although those were certainly more common in the early 2000s.

ETA: Obviously, cars without digital capabilities in any way, such as vintage/classic vehicles are not likely to have this. But all 2000s and later vehicles should have a compass display somewhere.

It will just state the direction. Nothing else. So ‘NW’, ‘S’, ‘NE’ would be what is displayed.

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f0rf0r t1_iswfg8u wrote

Bro an absolute fuckton of cars did not have this and probably still don't (you can still buy ones without all the infotainment bullshit, although it's harder). I mean I generally know where I'm going and google maps is more useful than any of the built in shit anyway but I have never owned a car that had a compass anywhere on it lol.

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hairlikemerida t1_iswg1r3 wrote

This is not some elaborate piece of technology.. It’s the direction and temperature. If it’s not on your cluster, screen, whatever the hell, it’s most likely this.

It seems a lot of cars were phased into this in the early 2000s. Most new cars do not utilize the rearview mirror display.

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f0rf0r t1_iswi0vs wrote

lmao yeah my dad's truck had one of these and they were pretty common but that's not the point - lots of cars didn't, which is why these aftermarket units even exist! you are confidently making an assertion that is demonstrably wrong, online! one of the classic blunders.

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Away_Swimming_5757 t1_isxjiwr wrote

Agreed. It's a very standard question and drivers should be expected to be mindful of the directional details of their accident so the report can be made accurately.

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mistertickertape t1_isufkwj wrote

Huge warehouse across the street from me was on fire a couple years ago. Had to call five times before anyone answered. Even then they seemed unconcerned.

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this_shit t1_isucck3 wrote

Patrol is a black hole of wasted effort. We need officers to respond to calls, but beyond that you're wasting a payroll on security theater.

Solving violent crimes and arresting criminals is the only way to fix the perception that doing crime won't lead to consequences. We need more murder/assault arrests and fewer contraband arrests.

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Kageyblahblahblah t1_isufg7t wrote

Patrol is useless, they’ll sit in their cruisers on the phone. Get out and walk a beat.

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ColdJay64 t1_isuftjl wrote

Yep. There should be 24/7 patrols walking up and down Center City and other neighborhood's primary commercial corridors. The pedestrian volume warrants this.

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RustedRelics t1_isv8uzx wrote

Agreed. In NYC it’s just part of the landscape that beat cops are on foot nearly every block on the avenues. (also a good number of bike cops). Where the hell is Outlaw in explaining her decision making on all of this?

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ipissexcellence21 t1_isxygnf wrote

Where would they get all these cops from for these foot patrols?

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ColdJay64 t1_isy9x99 wrote

How about from the hundreds that are doing administrative tasks? https://www.inquirer.com/politics/philadelphia/philadelphia-police-civilianization-report-reform-20221004.html

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ipissexcellence21 t1_isyzzwf wrote

After you hire civilians to do the jobs sure.

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ColdJay64 t1_iszb8nm wrote

There are 6000 officers with only 2500 on patrol.

"More than 650 Philly police officers are unavailable for duty because of injuries. But some blatantly work second jobs, and their peers are fed up. Says one commander: “It’s a shame we don’t even hold ourselves accountable.""

These changes could be made now dude

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Scumandvillany t1_isudyve wrote

Even if this is true(I'm not convinced), what exactly are the rest of the police doing? Certainly not solving crimes.

MANDATORY 4K

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this_shit t1_isuijyv wrote

Lol, apparently writing up paper messages to hand to other desk jockeys to deliver in person.

PPD had 7,167 employees in Dec. 2020. Of those:

  • 4,000 in field operations
  • 1,000 in support services
  • 1,050 in criminal investigations
  • 450 in "homeland security/intelligence"
  • 225 in professional standards
  • 175 in forensics
  • 150 in aviation

Within "field operations," the big chunks are ROC North (1,900) and ROC South (1,850). As an illustration, ROC South looks like this:

  • 1,587 police officers
  • 143 sergeants
  • 46 lieutenants
  • 33 corporals
  • 12 captains
  • 3 inspectors
  • 1 chief inspector

Within Criminal Investigations division, there's a different breakdown:

  • 537 detectives
  • 322 police officers
  • 96 sergeants
  • 57 lieutenants
  • 12 corporals
  • 14 captains
  • 6 inspectors
  • 4 chief inspectors
  • 1 staff inspector

It's very strange to me that middle and upper management in the criminal investigations unit are staffed at similar rates to patrol divisions with >2x the number of officers. Also, the number of budgeted detective positions decreased from 2020 to 2021.

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mustang__1 t1_it5340m wrote

I dunno. Sometimes theatre works. I think. I'd like to think someone wouldn't break the law right in front of a cop..... But.... Yeah. Who knows anymore

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Bartleby_TheScrivene t1_isxt5bp wrote

I'd rather have a security theater than a crime circus.

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this_shit t1_isyoz6l wrote

Okay but what if it's not a tradeoff?

What if the security theater does nothing to affect the 'crime circus?'

Is that a good reason to spend money on security theater?

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Bartleby_TheScrivene t1_isyrfc8 wrote

Yes. It is. Perception is reality.

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this_shit t1_isyt2zr wrote

Then why didn't you just say that? How can we have a conversation about my ideas and your ideas if your ideas are so obscured by such a thick layer of ironic sarcasm that I can't even tell what you mean?

What's your argument for why patrol reduces crime?

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