I honestly hope so!

Nah I feel exactly the opposite.

The forthcoming recession will slow down or altogether halt plenty of the construction projects.

For anyone like me who didn't know what DAE meant.

Does Anyone Else (DAE)

I felt like this in 2010

I don’t know how quickly it will happen, but I do think Philly’s ascendance will continue. While showing my condo in November/December, at least 7 or 8 different couples all moving from NYC toured it. When voting, I saw/heard a few families at my polling spot that were new to the area. The vast majority of my friends love the city and don’t plan to leave. Also, I don’t know how the burgeoning recession will impact this, but there’s literally a record amount of constructing going on.. and I think everyone has noticed all the new restaurants opening. Lastly, there are other positive indicators such as 70+% of condos in the Laurel selling before it’s opened, unemployment lower than pre-pandemic, and some new employers coming to the city.

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I feel the same way! Lately colors have seemed brighter here, food tastes better, and music sounds so vivid!

Unrelatedly, the psilocybin microdosing regimen I've been on doesn't seem to be affecting me much at all.

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I prefer a macro dose

I agree. Was just out in CC for the first time in a while and was shocked at how active it was. I really hope you are right--the city needs positive momentum. It has a lot of problems, but imo has way more potential than a lot of other cities in the country. The next two or three years--and the next Mayor--will really be huge.

Also just get ready for a bunch of negadelphians who spend 18 hours a day bouncing between Citizen and Reddit and Facebook to post some braindead nonsense in the comments here about how "nobody wants to come to KRASNERS Killadelphia" or whatever the newest thing is.

Exactly, I’m sure there will be growth after the recession but next few years are not looking great.

How are we still talking about a “looming recession?” Unemployment still low, gas prices down, inflation moderating, GDP growing at a steady clip. Never seen anything loom for so long…and never get here. Except maybe the scary caravan of 2020.

Philly always recovers well after challenging times. Did it after 9/11, after the recession and now it's on the upswing after COVID. People want to live here because it's still more affordable than NYC and DC.

It’s always busy during the last week of December in the city. It was busy during thanksgiving weekend. It’s a normal sight. What matters to be totally honest is how well the Eagles do is what will generate traffic post Mummers because no one wants to visit Philly in January. It’s cold and the holidays are over. It’s not a knock but that’s why people go somewhere warm and I don’t blame them

I'm really hopeful for the city and goddamn the next mayoral election can't come soon enough. I'm excited about all the new construction announced this year but, I'm wondering how much that had to do with the 10 year tax abatement expiring.

Also, we need to do something about the trash and gun violence if we expect the city to keep growing.

Especially with all the stores closing

I hope not. My rent is gonna keep going up, the cost of going out is gonna keep going up, and i'll be surrounded by douchebags. Keep em out.

I’ve had an armed carjacking, a drive-by shooting, and multiple strong-armed robberies within a two block radius of my house in the last two months, in a neighborhood that mostly sees only petty property crime, but ya know, Fitler Square or where the fuck, got a new third wave coffee shop, so, aLL Is WeLL.

Philly is poised for a lot of growth just go up to kensington and spring garden. There is already 3 towers going up on Spring garden and Front St/Kensington Ave/Frankford Ave have a new apartment building completed or started each month. The COL is creeping up, but a lot of people arent ready for what is to come. Just at look at brewerytowns transformation in less than 5 years same with Point Breeze.

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Oh this is reassuring, we are looking to move out & sell within the year and I wondered how the condo scene was these days

Thank you, you're doing the Lord's work. My brain kept acting like a record player hitting a scratch as I tried to understand the title.

Philadelphia has long had extraordinary potential. Unfortunately, it has a political establishment that wants to fuck that up, because it prefers rot and decline that it controls to growth and change that won't be beholden to it.

Yeah, crime is a big deterrent right now. But I think the lower relative COL to other Northeast cities will continue to drive growth.

Yeah idk what OP is smoking, but we’ve been on a downward trajectory for the last 5 years. I sure do hope we get back on track.

I was renting it out so I’m not sure about the sales side!

New Yorkers moving here en masse is not good for the city.

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Respectfully, this isn’t the case: https://centercityphila.org/research-reports/center-city-philadelphia-retail-november-2022

I’m thinking more of things like Wawa closing those two locations on Market due to crime. Glad to hear the stats are proving me wrong though

I’m secretly glad wawa and all these low brow department stores will GTFO of city center.

I generally agree with this, purely on the basis that people are bailing here cause they can’t afford nyc/dc anymore. Crime is a problem but pretty orthogonal to growth. Plenty of high crime cities are are also high growth.

Driving along I-95 is endless views of cranes raising up major construction. That's a great sign of revitalization

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This is a low outcome mindset. You live in a city full of affordable homes where someone making working class income can buy a home.

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I live in spring garden and there is new construction everywhere. It's only been a few months and I can already say "that wasn't there when I moved in".

I agree. It comes down to that in a country of 300 million people, not everyone wants to live in fucking Arizona. There's millions that want to live in an actual large city, one with history and authenticity and walkability-A compact urban environment. There's not very many cities that fit that bill. And there's only a couple that sit on the main rail line between DC and Boston. If you want a compact urban environment, Chicago is kinda the only other spot that competes with the NEC, but it's in its own league and the center of its own nexus. Seattle ain't the bid, LA is it's own planet, and SF is out of reach and on the west coast. Certain types of people go to California. It's a whole different planet. A different kind of asshole ends up in Florida or Texas or Arizona. The NEC is mega city one, and we've got the nation's capital plus NYC within spitting distance.

I've been saying for years Philly has a bright future, despite the best efforts of leaders to fuck it up. And in general the rumors of the death of cities (during the pandemic) was wildly fucking exaggerated. We're sorting ourselves out, is all.

Amazing insight

No.

I left Florida because I was born there, but I can't find a job or a house there. I save a ton of money and time by not driving in Philly, and I suspect lots of other Floridians and such will realize the same.

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When the 24hour diners come back, that’ll be an indicator that night life is back to normal. People used to spill out of the various bar districts and hit the diners for a warm place to eat. Theres no way anyone can convince me ordering Uber Eats or some dumb delivery app is better than warm french onion soup or cream chipped beef served hot in a cozy booth at a diner.

What are the downsides besides potentially increasing the cost of living in philly?

Same. Car just got broken into, they tried to steal it but I noticed so the car alarm scared them off. And right after a couple slept in their car a few minutes later. Probably not worth even calling the cops for

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If we drew the boarders of Philly like a lot of cities out west, it would probably rival LA in size.

Philly is just built very well bc its an older historical city. A lot of younger people are realizing how nice city life can be bc they arent old ass boomers whose parents moved them to the suburbs during white flight

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that

The truth is that the metro’s economy in the short term is suppose to do well across most advanced industries. Does that translate to clean streets and good schools in the city? Not really but we can only hope that it gets better

I feel like an implosion is much more likely and actually already underway. Retail stores will keep closing, businesses will start pulling out of center city and residents will move away. White flight part 2 has been happening.

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This is also what gives me pause.

That requires money which means people have to move into Philly… we have to shutdown charters too

That wawa couldn’t generate cash because they couldn’t compete with the local restaurants and shops… why go to Wawa in CC when you have better options all around you?

I see Wawa more as a convenience store than a restaurant but the company themselves said they closed for “safety concerns”

Wawa couldn’t keep up with the competition… superior products and options on almost every corner. “Safety concerns” were just words used to craft a narrative to make people believe they were doing healthy business when that’s not true.

Charters are why middle class people are even willing to move to Philly and buy homes. Homes which fund the Philly school district. I don’t think the school district will ever be fixed. I don’t think it’s a question of money. Growing up, I went to catholic school, my neighborhood friends went to public in Philly. A good 1/3 of them were illiterate in 8th grade. The ones that were put on the “LD” list because their parents didn’t care if they did their homework or passed tests. They were perfectly normal kids. The friends I had whose parents were invested did fine in public but they dealt with a lot more violence than I did. Just my exp.

Ugh this takes me back to my early 20’s. Pizza fries taste best at 2:30 AM when you’re plastered and laughing with friends

The Catholic school system has been hanging their hat on that old canard since before I was going to school. My younger brother was classified as Learning Disabled and St. Christopher's told my parents he wasn't welcome to return after 1st grade. Back then they just said he was hyperactive and to stop letting him have sugar. I don't think ADHD was really understood back then.

The other issue has to do with whether or not the parents place an emphasis or value education. If parents are paying to send their children to Catholic school then they obviously place some value on education.

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that's a good gauge.

another good gauge is measuring how shitty Delco is. the proportion is directly inverse and lately that shitbox is shittier than shit!!

Philly's goal should be to get to 2 million residents. Unfortunately, with the games city council is playing, we're going to see multifamily (apartment) construction slow down once buildings currently under construction get completed.

To get to 2 million residents we'll need:

• upzoning, especially close to rail stations (both rapid transit and regional rail)
• offer developers attractive bonuses that allow them to increase density. We currently have some, but I'd like to see one for adding public restrooms at ground level. For existing bonuses, at minimum double the height of any inclusionary bonus.
• Septa fully enacts Reimagining Regional Rail
• Septa add trolleys along key corridors under served by rail currently
• End parking minimums.
• Build a comprehensive protected bike lane network
• END COUNCILMATIC PREROGATIVE.

Not a comprehensive list, but you get the point.

Right, I guess that’s why the vast majority of Charters do worse than the public option and tend to just operate as a way to extract cash from public funds to private hands. Eliminating the vast majority of charters, which operate as a means for private investors to legally take taxpayer funds, would save the district from giving up around +$1 billion per year to the charters that drain our local resources. Why would anyone of “middle class” status send their kid to a charter when they tend to have the money to send them to the dozens of private schools in the region?

Your experience demonstrates learning was not valued at home because school doesn’t magically make you literate. People taking time to read and grow their reading skills makes them literate. Properly resourced and supported schools can support families more effectively… eliminating charters helps refocus the resources more effectively.

I just order pickup and its more convenient than just going to wawa.

The food quality sucks, going there sucks. I have zero reasons to go to wawa in CC for anything.

Felt like this in the last years of Mayor Nutter's term - you could feel the city teeming with potential.

Serious question: Why do they need to craft a narrative? Wawa's not publicly traded, I'd understand if they were, not scaring off shareholders and that, but I doubt that customers would stop going to Wawa because they were bad at generating revenue in two stores.

Since the initial announcement came from a councilperson, it would appear the narrative was politically motivated whether that motivation was entirely the councilperson or the entity of WaWa is not mine to say. The narrative could’ve been entirely fabricated by the media. It could be a play at more tax breaks for businesses, increasing police budget again, etc.

Either way, the entire narrative around the CC WaWas shuttering was based on alleged crime when the facts revolved around those locations just not producing enough revenue.

Ah, OK. Did Wawa never actually say that safety was the problem?

I believe it was stated as a problem but was blown out of proportion to the reality. Wawa like we’ve seen with Starbucks closing a couple stores is mainly related to over-expansion and self-cannibalism. How profitable fan a business be if you have the same store across the street? Wawa also like Starbucks was surrounded by superior competitors… why go to Starbucks when there are numerous La Colombe and a dozen other coffee shops with their own roasts are nearby?

Inky article on WAWA

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If an area gets more desirable, the cost of living will go up. If an area is bad, the cost of living will go down due to less demand. Which would you rather see for Philly?

I hate to interject with reality here, but CC’s population is higher now than it was pre-pandemic. A record number of residential construction permits were approved last year. Some companies are moving to CC/expanding their footprint there. https://billypenn.com/2022/12/12/philadelphia-growth-remote-work-pedestrians-millennials-center-city/

How does this indicate white flight? The city has some pretty obvious issues, but the growth of Center City and some other neighborhoods is equally obvious for anyone living in the area.

I'm not clear what you mean by decline of the northeast? The parts of the northeast that I work in have rapid population growth and also house alot of families with young kids so many new schools are being constructed for example, where other parts of the city that is not the case.

This was my worry / my mindset, but all the stories from parents in our catchment have convinced us to stay. At least for K, 1st, 2nd.

All the reviews have been very positive, and I assume it's got a lot to do with the teachers, who've been there a long time. And the parents, who all actually give a shit.

What do you mean by the decline of the NE. I know if a house goes for sale on my block it sells in less than a week. New restaurants and schools are popping up all over the place. Where are you seeing decline?

It’s just my opinion that we’re seeing happening now will come to be known as the beginning of a period of decline for Philly. A completely dysfunctional state government has led to a school system that’s in shambles and unable to find and pay the teachers they need. An absent police force that only cares about collecting a paycheck and squeezing as much money from the city budget as possible. A city where nearly a quarter live in poverty (350,000+ people) being crushed by raising inflation, no jobs, and no way out. Combine this struggle with a state that has awful social services and a police force that doesn’t give a shit and you have a recipe for disaster. People are going to get fed up and a lot of those that are able to leave will and things will get worse for those that stay, creating a negative feedback loop that drives more people away. I just fell that economic growth and investment are lagging behind the situation on the ground and it’ll take a couple of years before we see the impacts there. It’s not too late to right the ship, but that needs to start with cops doing their jobs and doing them right.

Some of phillys best years were the last recession. Relatively speaking i think philly does well in recessions because it is a cheaper city near expensive ones

Broad Street diner has really gone downhill, the food is atrocious. But I think I saw they were open until 11pm, so thats a start on the 24/7 quest

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Read this entire thing in Urkel voice.

Welcome! We were in Florida for work temporarily. Wages are low. Housing is insane. My advice is, if you can, buy here (even if its a small place) while prices are still affordable.

They probably mean that brown people and Asian people are the ones moving in. Some equate bad neighborhood as anything that isn't a white-only neighborhood. My brother-in-law is moving to Denver. We were watching videos on the city. Some guy has a 'bad parts of Denver' youtube video. He sounds like a white guy that has old rap songs in the background and basically just names all the black areas while in some cases doing a 'stereotypical black accent'. The only data he had was some of the areas have a whopping 4% unemployment. Yea, he posted that as a sign that the area was impoverished. So, plenty of people out there claim any black or brown area equals bad neighborhood.

i mean i'd rather everyone eats and everyone has a house, personally. but i was just answering your question. the benefit of philadelphia over the other northeast corridor cities is that you get nice, good shit but you can also afford to live here (not in a shoebox) with regular people money. that is and always has been the deal here.

Ideally, I agree too. That’s what I love about my current neighborhood, it’s a great combination of folks from all walks of life.

Such a shame. I used to live a few blocks from Broad Street Diner and it was not uncommon for us to end a night there and go back for breakfast a few hours later and have the same waitress.

We're getting old here lol.

No. The riots + pandemic really ruined Philly. The charm is lost…

And it’s funny because the block has been much much more quiet with the Chinese people moving in and the rowdy Irish people moving out. I got along with them but they had a habit of drinking through the night and playing music until the morning.

Definitely. Philly has the right base for growth in the 21st century I think. Dense housing stock that’s affordable (compared to the rest of the northeast), lots of universities to produce leading research and provide a pipeline of young talent to drive growth. Philly is fairly insulated (but not immune) to the effects of climate change relative to a lot of the rest of the country as well. The biggest issues we’ll have is some flooding along the river and South Philly but have the tech/engineering to deal with that when the time comes. It’ll be expensive but still far cheaper than what a lot of other places would have to do to avoid people leaving for places less affected by climate change like Philly. Philly offers you 90% of NYC for 40% of the price. Lots of people have caught own. Fishtown/Northern Liberties are absolutely booming right now, I’m part because of people coming in from NJ/NY, as commuting I-95 North can get you there fairly easily. There’s a lot I like about Philly going forward. It’s not going to boom but it’s not going to bust either. I work in real estate development so looking forward to it!

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Historically Philly does pretty well in recessions. A lot of people who left for NYC/DC/Boston come home, people move here to take advantage of the lower COL. Some of Philly’s best growth years in terms of population were 2009-2011.

Get outside more… Philly is doing just fine lol

I kind of feel the same. Although, it has improved since 2021. The summer of 2021 was really the worst I've seen my area and I've been here since 2007, and in a different neighborhood since 2005. I thought I would buy something and stay here, but now I'm not sure. Waiting to see what 2023 brings.

I think when it hit rock bottom any sign of life was seen as an improvement lol. I’m not arguing that people aren’t in Philly. But the old world charm, the brotherly love, which is what made Philly Philly, just isn’t there anymore. Idk how to explain it really. It’s just, different.

They pulled demo permits, its not long for this world. I'd guess same with the melrose.

I think the fire gutted Melrose already, last I heard they were waiting for a contractor.

I hadn't heard anything about fixing the place up, so I assumed they were just cooling their heels until they could sell the place. I hope they fix it up - I'm a big diner guy, and its been pretty sad to see the destruction of diner culture over the last few years.

Traditionally, the least busy season is December - February in hospitality in Philly. Coincidentally, it's the same way for anything north of Florida that's not a ski hill.

Not sure why you were downvoted, but yeah,we are in for some ugly economic times. Also, Covid is coming back. We're stepping way back to 2020, baby! (/r/coronavirus)

I don't disagree with you, but I've felt it other places too. Pandemic did a number on humanity.

Why would you want more people? More traffic and longer lines...

that's good to hear!!