Submitted by IAI_Admin t3_y6czml in philosophy
Find a job that requires minimum effort that pays enough to have an easy life. I already have that, but find doing nothing boring yet doing anything feels pointless as well. It's quite the daily struggle for me.
I'm at the same point in my life. Each successive job has gotten progressively easier and more lucrative, to the point I don't do much more than show up and occasionally find answers to questions as they come in. And I don't really want for anything more challenging anymore. I burned out several positions ago, after I was given far too much responsibility compared to my level of experience, and I haven't been able to recover. I'm constantly daydreaming about a cabin in the woods w/limited remote work. Maybe in a few more years.
I've always worked jobs that had managers up my ass, high workloads and high stress levels until I got into the tech industry. My job is so much easier and less stressful now, it almost feels like I'm cheating. I keep getting kudos, while also working much less than ever before. It's amazing.
Can you elaborate more on your job? I see posts like this making tech seem like a dream but never any specific examples or proof. I have no idea how to get started in it and I'm starting to think it's a joke
It depends on the role you have. Being an engineer is stressful! But other roles are less stressful. A role like a solutions engineer requires the technical knowledge but also the ability to easily present & talk to other people. In that role your day isn't necessarily 8 hours. Maybe you have 2 hour-long demos, an hour or two of prep and notes, maybe another hour meeting (all done by Zoom in your house) and you're done for the day. Add in the fact that nobody's up your ass with constant needs and demands like they are in admin or customer service.
You explain your software, show your customer how to enable the features they need for their use case, and then answer any follow up questions. You are a RESOURCE that everyone is thrilled to see.
>Can you elaborate more on your job? I see posts like this making tech seem like a dream but never any specific examples or proof. I have no idea how to get started in it and I'm starting to think it's a joke
I was forced years ago (about ~13 years ago) to switch fields entirely to a backup career -- IT support. I blame the Great Recession, but also capitalism in general and the near overnight collapse of print-based marketing in the mid/late 00s. While I was saddened by my inability to earn a decent, reliable income in my previous field that I was extremely good at, IT (and subsequently basic programming work using PHP+MySQL [database]) has allowed me to have reliable jobs that have provided where so many other fields have not.
I'm in my 40s now, and made this pivot in my early 30s, so it can be done. I am by no means a great programmer. On a scale of 1-10 I am a 4, but I can do enough with databases and PHP+HTML coding to make interactive website-based programs (that can run locally, on a user's computer, w/o need for the internet) to essentially automate many data-heavy, manual-entry tasks.
Not all IT jobs are good though - I've had several where I am looked down upon and treated like a cog in the machine, and valued very little. However, I have had multiple jobs over the past 13 years where I have been able to outright work remotely, because ultimately my jobs (at these remote points) were more about delivering X on Y basis/schedule rather than being busy+available every second of the day.
In the IT jobs where I was mistreated/micromanaged, there was no room for anything - I was either a generic tech support person behind the emails or a voice behind the tech support line phoneline.
I'm unsure if I could cut it as a genuine programmer. I never received the proper training in a 4 yr or higher Computer Science program. I have picked up a good amount and understand the concepts behind many things programming-wise, but age 35 onward I sorta lost most ambition and desire to continue learning -- afterall, I had already done this once before and had to abandon my career.
So I'm not a software engineer per se -- I'm more of a generic IT support guy (understand how computers/operating systems work -- I dislike server support though) and basic programmer (I don't mess with stuff beyond PHP+MySQL, though I could if necessary I guess) and decent data analyst (I can do reporting, work with tables of sales/order/inventory data, etc.).
>I have no idea how to get started in it
You at a minimum have to understand how a computer works - not every physical aspect of it, but the concept of the operating system, programs, installing programs+drivers, what users expect out of software interactions, how dumb users can be when interacting with programs and data, etc. If you dislike this or just don't get it, anything IT support related or programming related is utterly pointless.
For example, I view cars as an appliance that get me from point A to B. I have no desire to understand horsepower or electrical systems or how the engine or brake lines work or anything beyond oil changes, filling gas, tire replacement, checking fluid/air. Can I use a car? yes. Could I use a car to do another job? yes. Should I ever consider being a mechanic or even oil change serviceman? NO.
Regarding education, I got a cheapo community college AAS in Computer Science ~12 years ago and an equally cheapo online Bachelors ~10 years ago in Information Technology. I didn't even need the BS in IT really as online teaching for me was "meh" but it helped in getting past HR departments a few times.
>"requires the technical knowledge but also the ability to easily present & talk to other people."
The best IT/coding jobs I've had are ones where I only have to talk with maybe a half dozen people at most and then beyond them saying the bare minimum needed each week or month, they largely leave you alone to get from here to there. The worst IT jobs I've had are ones where I have to interact with people frequently each and every day -- the worst ones are via phone-based calling. Strangely enough, if you get a tech job where face to face interactions are the main method of talking, even if you do have to interact with them, it isn't so bad. For me, I've noticed the worst tech jobs are where most communication is strictly done via email/messaging apps and is frequent each day. It dehumanizes you.
>"You are a RESOURCE that everyone is thrilled to see."
Over the past 13 years I've only kept certain jobs because of my basic PHP+MySQL abilities - I've created little programs or utilities that outright make other people's jobs easier. I would advise you to pick up something similar and if you like a certain job and wish to keep it, find a way to slip in some sort of custom script for the HR department or an important manager that cuts down a task they do in real, measurable ways. It's not guaranteed job security, but they'll see if you make their job easier, you may make others' jobs easier, and reduce stress/complexity overall. And you don't even have to be an expert or find a solution for everything - I frequently say "I don't know or I can't probably do that, but I'll look into it." But most people are excited by even the smallest programming things, and they can be ridiculously simple. But they may give you a bit of security and flexibility overall.
Bro that was deep ! Thanks !
Core engineering jobs are no joke. I've met my fair share of burnt out software engineers, that it almost seems like a rite of passage.
There are some roles that are less demanding, some more, though nothing can be generalised.
Wow, thank you for the detailed reply. I'm 26, had a career in construction and realized it wasn't for me. I've always been a little nerdy with tech just with video games and stuff but never hopped into it as a profession.
I don't care about the big money people always talk about with tech all I want is decent benefits and pay but most importantly work life balance. I wouldn't mind coming in a few days. I'm learning I just can't do full time, at work jobs. Data analyst seems like what would fit me best and I've been planning on looking into SQL
Solutions engineer in my experience IS customer support, at a high level. My jobs in that area have always come with a pile of 500 tickets underneath the day to day.
IMO being a software engineer is less stressful, provided you work fast when you do work
Fair enough. That's not my experience, but, every company has their own requirements for the role. Some SEs are required to do a lot more than others. Like any role, vet the company and the role before accepting.
True that, and for reference my industry is healthcare software, so software moves slow and missed issues can mean patients get harmed at industrial scale... Could easily see solution engineer roles being more laid back in industries that don't have lives on the line.
Just goes to show how title is borderline meaningless in some cases. I've seen "developer" roles where people don't need to know how to read code and "engineer" titles where the only thing being engineered is how to tactfully tell a user they pressed the wrong button.
+1 to your advice, vet all potential jobs/companies because they have a lot of leeway to paint a picture!
I was in the Healthcare industry before I pivoted to tech and you're right. It is slow and painful to get things done and there's no room for error because it's people's lives. Makes sense to me that the pressure is much higher in that role! Are you working with Eric?
Honestly I believe it’s more about the company than the job itself. From my chemistry class most have ended up in similar jobs yet most say it’s unbearable. I earn a little less than most but am absolutely loving work. After weekends I can barely wait to get started again.
I’m learning so much every day, got tons of freedom and everyone is basically on the same level (no powerplay or anything). Also there’s always someone having your back no matter what.
The older I get the more I realize that this is really what plays into a good career. I've had horrible jobs that take a lot away from my life but the coworkers were amazing, managers were relaxed, and it almost made me excited to go in and deal with the horribleness lol
I was going to ask this exact same thing.
That's good to hear! I'm slowly working toward a similar track as well. Currently just doing shift work, mainly so I have time at work to finish my Masters in Cybersecurity, finish Sec+ etc. I want a job like you described, where I'm simply afforded agency to produce results w/minimal oversight. It's encouraging to see how many cyber jobs are WFH, as I'm planning to start a family soon and I don't want those kids to have to deal with an absent or distracted father like I sometimes dealt with.
Oh, and also so I can get rid of my stupid car I'm currently forced to own because oil and car companies successfully lobbied for the destruction of almost all public transit in this country.
Dang. I was JUST thinking that.
That is crazy to see that someone who also saw this post at this point in their life makes a comment that sounds like something I would be commenting in here. We’re about the same age, I think.
How do you fill your days dealing with the ying and yang of that kind of lifestyle? New hobbies? Reading? TV? Side hustles?
I deal with that constantly, accepting that nothing is okay, and then what? I don’t want to stare at a wall for extended periods, what’s beneficial, how well should I be using my time? Crazy.
Great minds think alike, hah. It's honestly a bit of a struggle to force myself to engage when I know deep down that the 'normalcy' of, say, the mid-10s is probably gone forever. That we're headed toward an existential abyss and I'm powerless to alter that trajectory.
At the same time, I also know passively doomscrolling social media is doing me no favors. Sometimes I just shut it all down, grab the dogs and go hiking on my work breaks, or just wander around DC aimlessly.
I want to get in to minor woodworking, like shadowboxes, small resin pours etc. And I want to finally learn to use one of my Arduinos to set up an automated irrigation system for gardening next spring.
Beyond that, it's a lot of what you mentioned - I've made a conscious effort to go watch classic films I always used to pretend I'd seen. I play a lot of simulators on PC, like Cities: Skylines, where I can make towns in which I'd want to live. I go through spells of obsessively playing Rocket League still, even though I've probably maxed out my abilities in Diamond I. Euro Truck Sim 2 and American Truck Sim are great for zenning out and just enjoying the ride.
Lastly, something I've been thinking a lot about, is getting back into music production. It was the only thing that really brought me joy when I was a teenager dealing w/depression, and I probably pumped out around 100 crude tracks between 16 and 19. But now I'm mid-30s, haven't produced anything in about 5 years and I can't explain why. It always gave me a sense of pride and wonderment to see a project through, send it off to my musician buddies and hear their positive feedback. Plus, if I do have kids, I want to be able to show them who I am, and not just leave it a mystery. Something tangible and personal, even if the music itself ages horribly. Hah. I think that's what I'll focus on next.
Cheers for the inspiration!
Haha holy smokes man, sounds like we were brothers born on opposite sides of the country😂.
The escape during the day to nature, I go for rides personally. I got into woodwork and other similar projects in the last little bit as well as arduinos and other mechatronic based hobbies too!
Films and artsy anime that friends have recommended was what I was filling time with. Spirited away and Cowboy Bepop and stuff like that that I still haven’t finished. Roller coaster tycoon has been good, I had the old remake on my phone for a while.
That’s hilarious that diamond is your ceiling too, my buddy and I have been trying to break into diamond 3 for months now.
I haven’t messed with FL Studio since high school though personally. Sorry, don’t mean to go on, just your first comment resonated so much with me, and now hearing that it sounds like we’re very similar people is even more funny.
If you ever want to chat or mess around in Rocket League DM me! I’d love to chat and see what else we have in common and haven’t tried. Maybe we can bounce new hobbies or ideas off of each other. 👍
What do you do!? Sounds ideal.
Find a job that requires minimum effort that pays enough to have an easy life. I already have that
Go on....
For me it's software development. I'm sure it depends both on the person and the workplace. I've been lucky to find a place where I can work flexible hours without supervision and only completing tasks in adequate numbers matters.
I'm in the same boat; I work about 15 hours a week and have all this extra free time. I am bored and every idea I have can feel somewhat pointless. I try to create as much structure for myself but its a moving target finding the bliss point between responsibility/structure and freedom/leisure autonomy.
I have two jobs where I just sit there all day and do nothing. I work sixty hours a week and I get paid about 20 percent higher then the entry level minimum around here. Most people who start at McDonald’s are making thirteen dollars. I am making seventeen dollars at both. I also get cool fifty percent discounts on our products and the right to sample anything for free. I am exhausted at the end of every day but I am not overwhelmed at the end of the week, even though I work so much. I am saving so I can invest in the stock market. I want about thirty k. And then another thirty k to keep in Bitcoin and then another thirty for my own personal emergency fund and then I want to save for a house. Hopefully in fifteen years my house is paid off and I can retire into a part time position at one job lol 😅
What job? What country?
I work as a software developer in Finland.
Ah. Thanks.
What job is that?
For me it's software development since it fits my personality. For you it might be something else.
There's always security jobs. Get a night/graveyard shift and you'll make enough to get by without much to do
See, I tried that, but none of the places actually hired me, even though the interviews seemingly went well.
Unfortunately, I have Elher-Danlos, and a security style job probably wouldn't be ideal, but in some instances, it could be, like the cliché "guard watches a dozen security cameras" job. I would probably do okay being that kind of security guard.
Thanks for reminding me that this a possibility, though. I can always try again.
Edit: Also, yeah, I have been nightshift all my life, and it would be amazing, in those certain scenarios.
I'm iffy on security jobs. If you're like a mall security guard or a security guard at a hotel (something where everything is well lit, safe overall, well maintained, maybe has multiple guards each shift, and the security work is reliable/definitely security guard only - not quasi-janitor/quasi parking lot maintenance/etc.) it's probably fine.
One of my cousins however (who is now a cop) got hired as an overnight security guy when he was real young and you know what his job was? Be parked in a pitch-black rural mining area entrance, in a very rural area, with a shotgun and a cellphone. This was like in the last decade. He was maybe 20. No training beyond that.
So he was supposed to just sit in his vehicle all night with that as his only safe spot in the middle of nowhere with a gun and a cellphone, all by himself.
That is a terrible security job. If it had been two people on the shift, that would have been different perhaps. Still totally unsafe to be walking in the dark near job site/mine shaft/etc. though. But for these low pay/sketchy security jobs, I'd say no way instantly.
Security and police are different. Security isn't supposed to intervene they're supposed to "observe and report" at least that's what my friend in security told me. Might be different because we live in a city not a rural place.
If you don't like that there is also remote data entry jobs it's kinda monotonous but there are ways to automate it, where you'll just have to check the end result
I would love something like that! I am way better with a computer than I am with a forklift! Where can I learn more?
Second this one!! 👌👌.
Marry a breadwinner
I work to live. Got a job that pays ok but doesn’t cause me too much stress. Make due with what I have. Do nothing crew, rise up! ✊🏻
This is my goal. Just need to find an easy job that can pay the bills
It’s hard these days, I got really lucky. I hope you find something.
the ultimate question I ask myself everyday lol
Not spending all your time being productive does not mean you can’t be productive at all. In Dutch culture it is pretty common to do nothing regularly, we call it “niksen” (literally translated nothinging). It’s just a way to spend some of your free time. You don’t always have to do something productive but can also eg stare out the window for a while.
This is the way I interpreted the article.
I do like being busy and thrive in a dynamic environment. But, my partner and I made a conscious decision years ago to make sure our leisure time can be just that. When a busy week leads into a busy weekend, we get burnt out. So, we make sure we have weekends with NO plans. Just chill and do NOTHING.
NIKSEN!
That’s great! That’s pretty much what we do too.
Normal conversation in the Netherlands: “What are you doing tonight?” “Nothing” “Oh okay, so you are free to hang?” “No no, I have plans to do nothing!”
Be a night shift security guard for somewhere that's closed at night. Basically read, play on your phone, or whatever most of the night.
I just lived through a nde and have been bed ridden for a couple weeks. I’m usually an extremely active and burnt out person. I can relate to this a lot, and I think this period of forced nothingness has changed my life trajectory permanently and for the better
Be prepared for the people thinking you are lazy or unmotivated or insert whatever consumer driven drivel here. It was crazy when I took a step back from IT burnout how all of a sudden I was viewed much differently in the eyes of some.
I hope you enjoy your new found freedom.
You're brave! I wish you a happy life ahead!
Only one shot at this life thing, don't let other brainwashed individuals take that away from you.
Glad you’re still with us ❤️
I've recently started ketamine therapy for TRD and have had the same experience. I used to be goal orientated in my personal and professional life. I've finally come to the realization after a few years of not having goals and beating myself up about it, that being content with what I have and not having any crazy goals is ok and can lead to a happy existence.
I hope the treatment is working for you! I have treatment resistant anxiety/depression, and ADHD. I've burnt out a number of times at work - normally short durations thankfully, but last time it landed me in the hospital. On the bright side, I got into an rTMS trial that worked really well for me - within a week I was feeling sooooo much better.
Regarding goals: I'm really trying to not be so work driven, but it is still hard. I'm a terrible people pleaser, which makes having firm work boundaries hard. I'm trying to counterbalance with some more robust "personal care" goals I guess you could say - with some of those being more around appreciating the everyday vs bigger, more distant career, house etc...goals
It's helped immensely and I've only been doing it for about a month. The real turning point was when I internalized that nothing really matters, and that's ok! I guess my only real goal right now is to get my mental health sorted... I'm glad TMS helped you.
I've been looking into ketamine therapy. Are you doing it through one of the companies like mindbloom or private doc or?
I started with Mindbloom and moved on to a psychiatrist that specializes in ketamine.
People will rag on mindbloom.but I had no real issues other than price and their "guides" seeming very canned (what do you expect from a large company?).
r/TherapeuticKetamine
Shrooms seem to have had a similar effect on me
I’m still recovering from a major injury myself, and I couldn’t agree more. I’m at the stage of my recovery where I’m able to start working again to some degree which is great, but trying to navigate my realigned priorities is a challenge I did not have on my radar initially.
Did you just have to decide you wanted less? Find a way to do the same amount in less time?... I'm definitely the overwork type, usually in the office 60-80 hours a week with a lot of side obligations. But my wife is pregnant with triplets and I don't want to be one of those dads who's never home. However, the kids on the way also means we're about to need more money, not less, so I genuinely have zero idea how to rein it in.
I’m changing career paths. I was at the beginning of a PhD program that was leading to a career that I realize now is not what I truly want in life. This change is scary to me, but in the short term will lead to me having less on my plate and making more money since I will not work as a graduate teaching assistant any longer. My wife is also pregnant, and we have an 8 year old, so making this change now means that I can focus more on supporting them now instead of chasing a long term goal. Having worked as a teacher for the last 6 or so years has meant that I constantly take my work home with me. I’m looking forward to working in a job that is not like that.
Difficult to sell on Reddit, which seems to have the ability to eat up every spare moment of the day..
That weird uncle with all the photos stuffed in his billfold (who?) has become endless puppy pics
I was just thinking that time on Reddit qualifies as doing nothing.
I identify with this idea very much. I was very much burned out in my career and quit in 2021. My time since has been a struggle between both of my 'drives' as I attempt to determine who I am, why I am, and why I feel as if I need to be constantly busy. Rediscovering the lost ability to fully commit to losing myself in a career is proving impossible so far, yet I still yearn for productivity.
I'm half-jokingly recommending smoking some weed and watching Rick and Morty.
Don't be so hard on yourself.
I find Rick and Morty terrifying.
I can’t seem to identify what the difference is, but I have two camps of friends, those who love it and those who hate it. I know there’s a difference between their senses of humor, but I absolutely can’t identify specifically what it is.
I love the show, but I also find it terrifying.
When I first watched it, I disliked it a lot. At the time I was very religious (let's just keep it generic in saying that) and R&M say offensive stuff. It was hard to enjoy and be religious at the same time.
But that was years ago. I'm not that way now, and I honestly see the futility in many aspects of existence. I no longer place much value on any individual's "life plan/purpose" as I see no indicator we're designed. So it's not nihilism mind you, but I focus on the absurdity of it all. As in, life is pretty dumb and unpleasant to experience at the basic level. Yeah "you" can "enjoy" it insofar as you have a body you call your own and have senses that like certain things....but ultimately, it's very much nothing of anything.
I think Rick & Morty touches on those kind of topics frequently, in a dark humor, gross out way. Yeah, it's not the best show ever and isn't perfect in delivery of messages each time, but it's a thinking person's show I would say.
So, if I had to take a guess about your camps of friends, the ones who dislike it very much enjoy their life, sense-of-self and may even be quite religious (though not necessarily).
Rick & Morty serves me up a hearty helping of my own inability to comprehend most things. Shit is humbling.
I'm perpetually painfully busy. Like ~70 hours a week in the office, 100 nights a year in hotels, consulting gig on the side, and a good many other responsibilities... Used to pretty much need to eat TUMS like candy because of the stress... Then, covid hit, dinner and drinks with clients wasn't a thing anymore, and suddenly those 100 nights a year in hotels started being filled with getting high and ordering room service on the company card while watching Family Guy and South Park, one of which is pretty much always on. I sweat that legitimately took the stress down from like a 9.5 to a 5, even on days where I'm not doing it... Sucks, it's still illegal in my home state. Legal in almost all my clients' states though, so I can only smoke when I'm not in the safety of my own home, doing something work related no less. Once/if it becomes legal here I can probably get that 5 down to like a 2.
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> attempt to determine who I am, why I am
self is such an interesting concept. There's self as in body, there's social self as in how you relate to others, there's emotional self as in how you feel, there's ego as in the part of your brain that gets all defensive and loves comparing, there's what budhists call true self as in nothing really at all,
Do something pointless. Grab a sketchpad and a pack of pencils and draw. You can also do free writing, just start writing. If you feel the need to do something, do something.
I got a book on active imagination by Jung years ago, and I think there is merit to creating things for the sake of creation. It can be a reflective practice to figure out what unvoiced things are rattling around in your head, and it can loosen up the mind by occupying the hands.
We are social creatures after all. I think everyone wants to feel they have a purpose and are doing something valuable but in our culture we try to strive for productivity instead which can sometimes work but not always. I don't think you wanting to be productive is a bad thing but a misplaced feeling or urge.
Nothing, it's my favourite thing to do. I am exhausted by people that always need to do something.
Same. Wanna do nothing together in our own rooms and not talk?
Sounds like a plan.
I was gonna ask to join along but I think I'll stay home instead.
Hopefully doing nothing.
“I once worked with a guy for three years and never learned his name. Best friend I ever had. We still never talk sometimes.”
I have an idea I may one day try --- that perhaps the most mindblowing date idea would be to -- aside from the opening greetings, introduction, telling a date where dinner will be -- do the rest of the first date completely silent, communicating only through eye contact and basic/subtle gestures. I genuinely believe a date in near silence would blow the minds of both parties, as the experience (if both people could do it the full time) would probably be uniquely unheard of and connecting. Because, if you can enjoy another's company with the most minimal of interactions, how much must you enjoy that person.
Kind of makes getting to know someone impossible though. It doesn't mean you necessarily like them, just that you haven't had a chance to realize that you don't.
This is great.
Especially the part about growing up under rampant capitalism,
>Global capitalism, with its imperative of productivity and growth,
cannot recognise this dimension of life. From its perspective, time and
resources that cannot be dedicated to these aims are considered wasted.
I'm not really a money driven person, but this still rings true. Any idea I have will very quickly enter the filter of productivity and growth - "how can I use this idea to improve my wealth/health/position."
Even the idea of rest, for me, is in aid of staying fit and healthy so I can go out and work harder, conquer more. It's not for rest itself.
Never saw it as anything other than a natural human instinct, but reading that is struck me that people growing up under different systems probably don't think this way... weird.
That’s the thing though. That is the system we’re under. We can try to work against it, but we’re effectively fighting a battle against the socio-economic system we were reared in. If that’s the way any individual wants to choose to live their life, they can, but it’s just as tormenting as acknowledging/believing in the aimlessness of consumerism in a post-industrial 21st century capitalist society.
I haven’t read Civilization and it’s discontents in years, but I remember that iconoclastic feeling and excitement it gave me. Its premise and thesis rang true. But does that make life any better? Did it? Is that knowledge worth the price? That’s on us to decide as individuals. But if we’re even asking that question, or have the awareness to, we gotta be honest with ourselves. Meet ourselves where we’re at, and understand what being human entails. We can rage against the machine all we want, but we are fighting against ourselves too.
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I think that this is interesting and can be valuable for people who are in a good place but perhaps obsessive in their workplace.
But let's face it a majority of people are enduring a overactive life because the labor class has been reduced of its power and people cannot afford basic amenities without overworking. They certainly would prefer to be working less.
The cost of housing in the past couple years in the US has made me think so much more about money and I hate it. But I need shelter. It isn't a rolex or a hundred dollar bottle of wine. It is basic security and comfort.
I've started putting in extra hours so I can afford groceries.
Sometimes I am a human Being. Sometimes I am a human Doing. And sometimes I am a human Waiting. All of those things are reasonable and important
I was travelling through Italy in my 20's and in Genoa I learned the phrase, 'Il far di niente dolce'. The Sweetness of Doing Nothing.
Native speaker here.
Si dice "Il dolce far niente".
The way you wrote it roughly translates to "Doing nothing sweet".
But you're right, it's a common saying.
oh? me lo ricordavo male in tutti questi anni? il bel sentimento è ancora vero.
There is no such thing as nothing.
The word nothing has been corrupted to degrade leisure.
Where I grew up, Iowa. Nothing was associated with leisurely activities or anything that was identified as not real. What is not real? Anything associated with something the other person didn't like.
"Never trying never fails" by some unknown author.
That's a great line by someone who doesn't need credit
Byung Chul Han's auto-exploitation comes to mind and his concept of the burnout society.
His concept of the achievement subject in particular, who basically enslaves themselves in an endless cycle
The definition of a mindlessly 'productive' existence.
I want to be the person who doesn't sit around doing nothing all the time. That having been said, I live my life in those brief moments of "doing something" that exist between working, sleeping and waiting for a chance to go out and do something. I end up "preparing" to do something a few hours a week, "putting things away" a couple of hours a week, and traveling to the place (and coming home from) where I'm going to be able to "do something" several hours a week.
The actual "doing something" might be a couple of hours, might be as much as a couple of days." I figure, on average, two real events a month, of a handful of hours, each. Out of over 700 hours in a month, I'm not "doing something" a large percentage of the time.
But, those are really the only hours I remember.
I relate to this pretty much everyday. Stuck between keeping busy but no energy or will to do so.
Me surfing reddit and playing games on my phone while nursing a hangover. My wife is going to be home soon. Now I have the perfect explanation for why I did not do shit all day.
Welp. I’m killing it.
Taking time to think is not doing nothing. It is something I like to practice every once in a while. Those moments are too far apart these days, but I encourage everyone to find some rutine for doing nothing.
For me it is usually just laying down with purpose of doing nothing. What always happens is that a bunch of thoughts come, and I let them be and pass in their natural state.
I always feel refreshed and calm afterwards. Try once a week just shut off your computer, phone and tv. Make sure your house is clean, and you don't habe a bunch of things to do like laundry, groceries or whatever. Lay down somewhere comfortable. If you can lay in the sun it is to be prefered.
This time a year, i can truely recommend laying down infront of a fireplace and stare into the flames.
Bertrand Russell did a better job solidifying this in his work "In Praise of Idleness" in my opinion.
A somewhat more modernized take published in Current Affairs would be "In Defense of Laziness"
Both worthy reads for people with doubts, like some of the comments this topic tends to attract....
I'm not sure if I'm burnt out or productively doing nothing.
Yup. I decided at the age of 10 that I wanted to be a chemist. Pursued that goal with pretty much all available energy and got my PhD at age 28, and then burnt out (wound up in the ER) at age 30. I'm now 33 and I haven't worked since.
Signs were there since about age 20 that being a chemist wasn't what I wanted- I wanted to know chemistry, which is completely different from being a chemist. I never gave myself room to slow down or honestly reflect of what I was aiming for, and if it aligned with what I cared about most in life. Persuing it anyway (I had to- too many loans) slowly started to break be and I began having serious mental issues starting around age 25.
The last 3 years I have been living with my grandparents and doing nothing... which is what I have so badly needed for so long. I've really gotten in touch with myself and what I want out of life, and have grown SO much as a person since. I would not have been able to do so if I still had a job and a lot of responsibilities.
The sad part is through this time... I have realized that what I want out of life I can't access (no money, nor a functional world for me to do stuff in), and even then I am kinda "done" and don't really want to do anything anymore. So it's bitter sweet in the sense that I really did figure so much stuff out, but am also just kind of passively waiting for my demise.
At least I did get to do a core set of things I wanted to get out of life, and that is not nothing.
My boyfriend just yesterday left me (sort of a mural agreement at the time) exactly because of some conflicts regarding some very self-aggrandizing work-related goals.
The first few minutes he was gone I just noticed the sound of the AC. I guess it had always made that sound, but I had never heard it.
We both worked from home (or he was looking for work rather) and I really wanted to move to a bigger city to chase larger opportunities. I never realized the sounds I’d have to live with in my new-found “freedom”.
What’s funny is that now that I’m “finally free”, by myself, I realize it just will never end.
With the full freedom to do all those things I wanted to do, I can’t think of anything I’d want to do less than pursue all the hopelessly tiring efforts of climbing the academic and corporate ladder just so I can post photos in front of more interesting landscapes, nicer cars or clothes, and have people say “dr” or whatever before they say my name.
I guess we’re all free to choose our own slavement.
I think it's about choosing to do nothing compared to having no motivation to do anything. I have very few interests and just find myself "wasting" away the days. It draines me even more than having a busy day, but I guess rather mentally thus physically.
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Its a great idea but I would be careful basing anything on Freud. Freud has been discredited immensely. I would not be following his insights. Read Freudian Fraud or even this article: https://gizmodo.com/why-freud-still-matters-when-he-was-wrong-about-almost-1055800815
Balance is key. I’ve had the 40 hour a week lifestyle, the sub-20 hour per week lifestyle, and the 80+ hour per week lifestyle, all interspersed with long periods of no job. No job is the best to a point, but the inevitable financial worries creep in and then you no longer are stress free during your time. But what I’ve learned during my most recent stretch (9 months) is even though I was financially good for another 6+ months, I wanted to find a job, just to feel useful. I didn’t even focus on pay, just something that sounded like it could be good work to do.
Right now I’m trying to find a role where I can control how much I work. I don’t mind a 40 or 15 or 80 hour week, the problems arise when you have to work them, and work them consistently for someone else. When the objective is attractive, I like working. I’ve had the good fortune of working on some projects where I only had a deadline. I could work 12+ hour days and be excited to keep going the next. If I was tired I’d work less or rest for the day. Working isn’t the problem, lack of control and ownership over your work is. Adding in sabbatical weeks on my own time is top priority.
Working well then resting well is the ideal balance. If more people had the luxury to live that type of lifestyle, getting rid of the 40 hour week wouldn’t be top priority anymore. The constant drone of having to work set times regardless of what needs doing is a big problem.
Freud... no thank you
See I thrive in chaotic environments where I need to delegate work to a team and handle more complex issue on my own. I had an operations management job like that, that paid very well but I got to the point where the chaos became mundane and it was no longer exciting once I learned how to handle pretty much every obstacle that industry could throw at me. I WANT to be able to sit around and be leisurely and make a living but I also know that slow uneventful jobs lead to me literally not paying attention and fucking up. I need a position that gives me the flexibility to do nothing when I choose to do nothing, and that is exciting enough when I do work and requires me to continue to learn new skills throughout my career. Idk if that exists, if I’m some sort of psychopath, or what. I decided to quit that operations career and go to law school. We’ll see how that pans out. You can do all sorts of shit with a JD.
This is part of the problem I see with following famous "successful" people:
Most of the time you're only looking at their initial obvious successes and not where they're going to be in ten or twenty years. Running at 100% all of the time is going to leave you burned out with unreasonably high expectations that you can no longer reach, and that's even if you manage to succeed to begin with.
Not everyone can be "ultra-successful," particularly in a competitive winner-takes-all system, so you've created a reality that leaves the majority of people unhappy, everyone burned out, and even those who do succeed don't come out looking good in the end. I think this is part of why a lot of traditional cultures / moral value systems emphasize things like modesty and moderation.
Especially since "ultra-successful" is generally seen through the lens of "making as much money as possible" when that certainly isn't what successful should be measured by. This drives so many people into unhappy and unfulfilling situations all because they think they have to make as much money as possible to be happy and successful.
Careful doing nothing becomes all one wants to do.
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Procrastination is likely my life ... but it's true on the subject of energy, too much negating leaves also some marks and leads to lose the "maximal energy capacity" I think. But I know for my self that there are so much things I can do whiteout the felling of draining him self, it's likely the opposite. Like a temporary boost in the capacity and endurance but it also has it's downside by faster loosing the focus on "why" we do this.
(I'm just sharing my past experiences but it's also it's mostly true to others) (Sorry for some leaps on my side but I wouldn't stretch this too much)
“Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.”
While there is nothing wrong with Resting, I disagree with the rest, because doing nothing is literally impossible. People are breathing, their hearts are pumping, their blood is flowing, the electrical signals from your brains are bringing you new information to process all the time. There is NO benefit to doing nothing, because as soon as you've decided to do nothing, you become what you've decided to be.
Wow. Is this about me cause fuck, I'm there.
My sister and brother-in-law stack their days so full of...stuff that I swear when their children leave for college - and it won't be long now - I swear they will have an existential crisis.
I'm unable to do nothing. I had 2 events early in life when I nearly died and since then my brain is wired to do stuff because I dont want to waste a minute doing nothing when there are experiences to be had. Even if its reading peoples comments on Reddit. I dont even know what doing nothing is outside of sleeping where I'm unconscious.
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Hell yeah I'm philosophical as fuck
I got my doctorate in this
Nothing taught me to listen to why I hated the constant pressure to be doing things like covid lockdown. It changed how I think about everything and my reasons for working. Now i see my hobbies as far more important than my work. It has improved how I live quite a bit.
I would add to that the ability to be alone. I'm divorced and my kids are grown, it was an adjustment but there's a lot to be said for alone time.
Jerry would be proud
Thank you, but I'll sleep when I'm dead.
The practice of "doing" is usually subject to artificial urgency: people over-emphasize the importance of things happening immediately, rather than building deliberately toward what they want.
Proof of Concept: if you're working on something that will be inspected closely, and you really want the result to be a specific way, is it better to:
...hurry through the task as fast as possible?
...take your time, be calm, and double-check before you "do"?
What we practice, we improve at. ⚖️
I love doing nothing. Except when it's on my rear for too long. Then gotta move around. I work part time. That's enough. I think of working full time like I did for years. I'm tired no full time in me any more.
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Be like a lion. Save your energy for what matters to you.
This would go well with that "do nothing" Indian guru parody video
At my previous job, I really worked as hard as I can for almost 5 years to the point that I even miss family events because of my heavy workload until I got tired. I resigned and transferred to another agency, where my workload decrease by 75% but with a higher salary. I received an outstanding rating during performance evaluation and an outstanding employee award without even trying. I couldn't be grateful for where I am right now
Sometimes you need to just go sit on your porch or rough equivalent and watch the clouds for a bit. Find a nice grassy area, maybe a park, lie down, and watch.
It's very quieting.
Meal times are also a good time to detach and relax.
Why meditation is so critical
Doing nothing isn’t an excuse to be lazy. Is earning your nothing an oxymoron in the context of this article? Is my capitalist/consumer programming coming through?
I was just thinking about this - but men who achieve this sexually. Once you make your fantasies come true, you get new ones. Rich and powerful men who try everything sometimes eventually get into weird/messed up stuff because everything else gets less exciting. Hugh hefner’s ex girlfriends podcast kind of had me thinking about this.
Sometimes there's nothing more joyful than idling ones time away simply because it's your own time. There's no one to see nothing to do, no deadlines no expectations life's just pleasent doing nothing but what you want to do at that moment. I love those moments. Right now. I'm done with work my dogs at my side and I'm a lil high before I go to sleep whilst I write to you dear reader. Good night
one more benefit of doing nothing is one have a sufficient time to wait and observe the self also the surrounding. Everyone is so busy in such a way that no one care about nothing.
I don't care how much money I make I just don't want to work more than 4 days a week, 5 hours a day. I'm fine with living in my vehicle
What about having an achievable end goal you can reach early in life so you can just be content without having to worry about growth until you die.
Define doing nothing. Is playing games and smoking weed doing nothing? Maybe a few beers as well, watch an ep of something. Just chill. Is that doing nothing?
More than likely means "being nonproductive in the capitalist sense".
Does this apply to individuals in the age gap of 20–30 as well?
Oh yes! Finally! I've been waiting for this article!
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A beautiful sentiment
My husband is finally learning this. He’s a very driven person who couldn’t stay still even on the weekends. Finally he just stayed at home doing nothing and he said it was the best thing ever. He feels recharged.
Philosophy appears to be where lazy people rationalise underachievement and make generalisations about things. Like this generalisation.
Finally! Something I can excel at.
All you really have in the world is time, time well spent or time spent being lazy with yourself is still time spent on you. People often wish their life to be a fulfilling Experience, and everyone at their end will say they wish they would have done a thousand things more, but this world doesn't work on freedom and getting the most out of those 70-80 years. We work on working mostly to make the next guy richer.
If we didn't need money we probably wouldn't be working shit jobs, be more creative in both 'employment' and hobbies, but that's a given I suppose.
Gives a new meaning to “nothing REALLY matters”
My personal belief is that as a whole, humans utmost purpose simply solving greater and greater problems as we advance as a species. That’s my view as what we are as a collective anyway.
On an individual level, it’s completely up to you to decide. Some people prefer to relax and enjoy their time without stress, deadlines etc. But others cannot stand doing nothing and simply feel compelled to do literally anything to keep them busy.
Both types of people are acceptable. But one side is more here for the ride, and the other is here to create the ride.
Of course there’s more complexity to the differing types of humans around, and the roles they take on whilst existing with us at this time.
Simply put - you could say there’s “doers” and “existers” both have purpose and fulfilment, but on different ends of the spectrum
This post was quite the word salad
I want to be Chris.
But my boss told me burnout is a mental thing not physical…. Lol
I been doing nothing for way too fucking long
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Doing part-time self employment work/trading that pays more than I could ever earn in a full-time job. Don't really enjoy it but I can do it with my eyes closed and its flexible, I also can't walk away from that kind of money for such little (but boring and sometimes stressful work).
This then gives me time to do other things, recently took on an entire house renovation and doing majority of it myself (not skilled or qualified in any trade), just learning off the Internet and hired professionals to do the bits where I need them to step in.
Fairly active and healthy, go to the gym and also steam & sauna couple times a week, healthy social life.
Child just started high school and is self sufficient in most areas now.
And with all this I find myself in random phases of the day/week just blanking out because I've got that many things to juggle which I think are 'helping' me as a person, but because they've become that routine I feel anxious when I havent managed to fit either of those activities within a 2-3 day span.
Other than when I was ill for a few days a couple weeks ago and genuinely bedbound I was accepting of not being able to do 'something'.
Capitalism has forced a way of life onto us that isn't compatible with the animals that we are. We are no different from a squirrel or a moose except that other humans have created systems on top of systems that do nothing but grind us up for their monetary gain. We are forced daily to participate in these systems because we're constantly forced to compare ourselves, our material wealth, our beauty all the while capitalism is what's defining those terms. Even the very idea that some of us are non conformist is literally just another controlled outlet. They've taken everything.
You're not forced to participate in the system. You can move to the wilderness and live exactly like a moose or squirrel would do.
No I can't. The land is owned as much as land can be owned.
Who cares? you think someone is going to go to the Amazon/the middle of nowhere in Canada and tell you to stop living there? You're just making excuses. Fulfill your dreams.
Alright.
Thats the thing about dreams, some choose to be doctor and lawyers. I choose to be lazy.
"Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life "
drdildamesh t1_isoufmq wrote
What if you find that doing nothing IS who you want to be, but you aren't enthused about being homeless?