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dadaesque t1_ivsy4nh wrote

Reply to comment by roguemidwife in New study (n=276) finds that a standardized mindfulness program is as effective as a common antidepressant (Escitalopram) at treating anxiety, with both treatments leading to about a 30% reduction in symptoms. by fotogneric

They used mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR). It’s an 8 week protocol that has you doing about 30 to 45 minutes of some kind of mindfulness practice each day, and has a full day session towards the end of the program. It’s been around since the 80s and if you have a large medical center, mental health center or Buddhist organization near you it’s quite possible they have a course, and I’m sure they have some online as well.

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silashoulder t1_ivt1xox wrote

I took mindfulness classes, and it think it’s a mistake to frame the practice as >“30-45 minutes a day.”

It’s more like: >constant upkeep and periodic check-ins with oneself, that amounts to a collective 30-45 minutes in a day.

A straight 45 minutes of “quiet time” isn’t going to have the same effect as a complete overhaul of your focus. Fortunately, complete overhauls are easier.

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dadaesque t1_ivu28in wrote

The MBSR protocol has you do a daily practice of a (usually) 45 minute session of some kind. This is similar to mindfulness training in Buddhist settings where formal meditation periods are typically at least 30 minutes, which is supposed to be in addition to taking a more mindful approach to everything outside of the dedicated practice period.

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silashoulder t1_ivu5rd3 wrote

My concern is that, by scheduling specific meditations, patients might run the risk of compartmentalizing their tools. That’s not to imply that a patient would only be able to practice mindfulness at a predetermined part of the day, but I’d push for further investigation into what the best immersion techniques are.

I also suspect that the timeline parallels the Buddhist practice you mentioned, purely out of tradition, which medical scientists have been guilty of before. (For example, it’s perfectly safe to take antibiotics and have a glass of wine. There’s some evidence that Prohibition was partly motivated by doctor’s’ recommendations against drinking alcohol to reduce the risk of “being fun enough at parties to have sex with,” thereby spreading STIs, particularly among the military ranks.)

(Edit: see also, Why Fitbits Are Set at 10,000 Steps.)

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dadaesque t1_ivulggz wrote

MBSR was indeed based on Buddhist practices. The point of the dedicated sessions is that it helps you build some capacity for mindfulness that you can bring with you to other situations, not that you simply do it and be done with it. That’s also the point of the the full day session of n the program. In addition, they have to have some, specific, defined benchmark in order to study “mindfulness” vs a known intervention. They can’t just get 100 people and tell them to go out and “do mindfulness”.

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MephIol t1_ixzzm41 wrote

It’s continuous and mindfulness extends. The program teaches many forms as well. Watch a video on it and see for yourself! There’s a TED talk from one of the founders of MBCT.

Additionally, communities of mindfulness exist that help for social dimensions such that I would love to see long term research of the social implications of meditators with anxiety or depress

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Karma_collection_bin t1_iy27w9r wrote

>scheduling specific meditations, patients might run the risk of compartmentalizing their tools.

That would depend on the content of the program, knowledge imparted, etc, would it not? etc

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E.g. In my guided meditation app, they almost always end with something along the lines of "and as you go about your day, check-in with yourself, set an intention for your day, spend time in between activities or during them to do X mindfulness-practice" etc etc.

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And honestly I think that's very different than something else that people would typically glaze over. Because it's something that's said during a mindfulness session, in which the 'patient' is engaged, paying attention generally. And honestly if they are always glazing over that part, then I don't believe they would even be actually making the effort to even start sessions daily.

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Edit: I'll also say that with this practice, you're actually training the ability to bring awareness to your thoughts. That's something that affects your day, regardless.

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Significant-Hope-108 t1_ixysc53 wrote

MBSR is 30-45 minutes of practice in one session daily. Its a standardized program.

Your comment is absolutely incorrect.

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roguemidwife t1_ivukzhd wrote

Are there free programs? I only found one from UMass and it was ~$178

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dadaesque t1_ivumhhu wrote

Buddhist centers often have options for those who have trouble paying, and mental health providers sometimes will offer a sliding scale. Insurance might cover it if it’s through a health provider. But they are fairly intensive 8 week programs, and instructors have to go through a standard training and certification program, so it’s quite an investment to run them, and I don’t know that you’d be able to find one completely for free, though there might be a recorded or self paced version you can access.

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Significant-Hope-108 t1_ixysvxx wrote

UMass is a quality program. Honestly though, you could get the MBSR workbook off amazon and work through it.

The teacher in an MBSR course really just hold’s space for the group discussions. Most of the work is done via meditation practice.

So, combining the workbook with a daily practice could still be helpful. You would just miss out on the group discussion portion of the class.

Some people get a lot of value out of group discussions, so I do not want to diminish that. If you can afford the full live class, I highly recommend it. If you cannot, the workbook and a meditation app would mostly suffice.

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MephIol t1_ixzzujt wrote

While I feel you, I also pay 150/hour of therapy so these program costs are relatively cheap for the benefits. Well, extremely cheap. The accountability and feedback from trained experts is worth a ton of value

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turbulent_toast_ t1_iy03cbq wrote

You can read the text Full Catastrophe Living which discusses the development and use of this type of program and then you can follow it through each week.

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