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ThePrince14 t1_j8ugc1v wrote

Reply to comment by Conscious_Figure_554 in Majority of Texans back shift to solar energy by Sorin61

….people know that Texas generates the most renewable energy out of any state in the country, right? Or does Reddit just ignore everything that doesn’t fit the same tired Reddit narratives?

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CatalyticDragon t1_j8uicqd wrote

Doesn't mean lawmakers there aren't constantly attacking renewables and trying to stymie adoption.

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ThePrince14 t1_j8ukiyt wrote

Did you read the articles you posted? Or just quickly google and paste headlines to match your narrative.

First article was super super weak. Just basically said that some people blamed renewables for the Texas power outage issues. Big whoop, politicians always trying to capitalize on public issues to score points by spouting BS. Happens all the time on both sides and Reddit eats it up.

Second article has a paywall, so doubt you even read it…

Third article just says that some utilities companies don’t want to compete with power being put back on the grid, so they’re trying to put tariffs in place. This one is sort of relevant to your argument, but again pretty weak.

At the end of the day, the actual numbers are what matters. Texas generates more renewable energy than any other state and Texas invests a hell of a lot of money into renewables (more renewable projects than any other state in 2021). You can’t argue with data, and you certainly can’t argue with hard data with pretty weak qualitative articles that aren’t much more than a couple of small cases that are turned into clickbait.

If you want to counter this argument with ANY data showing that Texas is reducing investment in any way or anything even close to that, I’m happy to listen, but I’m just tired of the same BS circlejerk on Reddit and no one actually wants to educate themselves, they’re just happy punching down to make themselves feel superior.

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CatalyticDragon t1_j8uymsh wrote

> basically said that some people blamed renewables for the Texas power outage issues

"Some people" here being elected officials, including the state's governor, which I think is quite an important distinction.

> Second article has a paywall

That's what 12ft ladder is for.

> Texas generates more renewable energy than any other state

No doubt. There's a lot of potential there and enterprising folk are trying to take advantage of it.

> and Texas invests a hell of a lot of money into renewables

Does "Texas", or do a range of private groups (including from outside Texas) invest this money?

What's the breakdown of subsidies for fossil fuel projects vs renewable projects?

You can't pat Texas officials who are staunchly anti-renewables and anti-climate science for the private groups who are investing in renewables.

Oh and while we are here:

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ThePrince14 t1_j8v0h3d wrote

You’re completely moving the goalposts on the argument at hand. Again, the fact remains that investment in renewables in Texas is very healthy and has contributed to the state generating more power from renewables than any other state. That doesn’t happen if you believe same old Reddit’s tired tropes that Texas is the right wing devil determined to destroy everything progressive. If all these super powerful people in the state are actively anti-renewable and discouraging development of renewables in Texas, why is it so prominent and continuing to grow?

And since you brought it up, please educate us on what those fossil fuel “subsidies” actually are and how they work. I think if you were to actually educate yourself on the mechanism with which these “subsidies” work, you’d realize that again, Reddit parades out the same BS uninformed information over and over.

Spoiler alert, people like to call any sort of tax break for oil and gas companies a “subsidy” so they can perpetuate their narratives. Many of these tax breaks are the same sort of tax breaks that any business in any industry gets. I’ll give you an example, say you start a business that manufactures doorknobs. You build your own factory that manufactures those doorknobs and start selling them. Businesses generally get to write off the cost of building that factory as a capital expenditure against their profits. That’s not a subsidy in the way most people think about subsidies. But when it comes to oil and gas, people want to further their narratives, so they lump in capital investments and call it a subsidy.

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CoffeeFox t1_j8vffz7 wrote

> You’re completely moving the goalposts on the argument at hand.

You seem to be used to practicing arguments in a mirror, and forgot there isn't one present here.

They stayed on-point about messaging of elected officials and overall government policy and you danced around looking for an inroad to make deceptive generalizations regarding private entities that was fairly well off-topic right from the beginning.

It isn't "moving the goalposts" to repeatedly inform you that you are unsuccessfully trying different approaches of arguing with things that nobody even said, and it's ironic in the extreme to attempt to start up a game of Calvinball and then use that argument. "You're not allowed to do what I keep doing!" is... well, bless your heart.

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ThePrince14 t1_j8wdz7q wrote

Nice, I struck Reddit’s nerve where they don’t have a rebuttal to actual data, so people just downvote and come up with generalizations. Why are you so against actual data, and just use clickbait articles to further your confirmation bias? Don’t you realize that’s exactly what the “other side”, who you hate so dearly also does?

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HimEatLotsOfFishEggs t1_j8wffzg wrote

Those’re a lot of important phrases and ideas you’re regurgitating there, bud. Remember to drink lots of water to keep your throat well-lubricated, and take thirty-minute breaks should you get tired!

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ThePrince14 t1_j8wg16h wrote

Oh man, do I love when I strike this nerve. You can tell that people have no actual knowledge, so they just resort to comments like this instead of being able to have an informed discussion about this stuff.

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[deleted] t1_j8wn6h6 wrote

[deleted]

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ThePrince14 t1_j8wurxu wrote

That’s because the original premise comes from the same old Reddit BS that the state of Texas is just a bunch of right wing nut jobs and is against anything progressive. The burden of proof is on OP to actually provide that evidence instead of parroting everything that gets said in every reddit thread. My rebuttal was actual data saying that there is actually a ton of renewable investment in Texas, and if Texas was as bad as Reddit wants to perpetuate, there wouldn’t be the massive amount of investment there is. If the most powerful people in the state are working so hard to discourage and ban renewables, then why does there continue to be a massive amount of investment in renewables in the state?

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/texas-clean-energy-bechtel-solar-hydrogen-construction/638739/

Reddit is so committed to the narrative that Texas is this terrible right wing devil that it refuses to look at actual data.

When it comes to fossil fuel “subsidies” that Reddit loves to bitch about, read up on what they actually are:

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs

Focusing on oil and gas, there’s two main direct subsidies received - intangible drilling credits and percentage depletion. These are “subsidies” or more accurately tax write offs similar to write offs any business in any industry would get. Intangible drilling credits just let the company write off part of their capital investment in drilling wells, which is the same as if an airline used capital to buy airplanes, that’s a write off against their profits.

The percentage depletion is also an accounting method that is used in many industries, like if a company built a factory producing goods, they depreciate that over a certain period of time, which is again a write off on taxes.

Then you have the indirect subsidies, which are again just the same accounting practices any company in the US would use.

So please use actual data to show my how my argument is actually shite instead of pulling a couple of clickbait articles and ignoring what Texas is actually doing in practice.

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skolioban t1_j8x4cwz wrote

What data?? You haven't shown any data. And if your point was "Texas has a lot of renewables" then no one is arguing against that. The argument was "Texas officials are against renewables" and the other guy showed that data. You haven't shown anything, except hints that you're arguing against a strawman.

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StabbyPants t1_j8uupe4 wrote

I can argue that the state may make it impractical via regulation. They did try to pin the February disaster on green energy, and it’s the same people today

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Felanee t1_j8uu8md wrote

You know why? Because they are the largest state so they have more resources. But when it comes to percentage of total power production they are 14th highest. Source

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ThePrince14 t1_j8uxru3 wrote

That’s a dumb response. The fact that they have the most power generation means they’ve had a massive amount of investment. It doesn’t matter whether they’re a large state or not.

Also, why do they have more resources? A huge part of that is because of the oil and gas industry, so are you saying that states that encourage oil and gas development also have the ability to fund more renewable energy projects? That doesn’t seem to fit Reddit’s narrative.

Finally, 14th highest out of 50 seems pretty damn good for a state that Reddit paints as the right wing devil that hates anything progressive.

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Felanee t1_j8v4zoh wrote

They are 14th in terms of % of PRODUCTION but not consumption. I'm sure you know that that vast majority of the north east states purchases renewable energy (hydro) from Quebec. So while those states have low renewable energy production, their renewable energy consumption percentage is relatively high. When it comes to consumption, Texas is 31st of all states. Source Does that still sound good to you?

It is an undeniable fact that in order to create renewable energy (aside from hydro) you need land which Texas has the most of. Which is why it is not reasonable to compare the absolute value as oppose to percentage.

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wh4tth3huh t1_j8vkt65 wrote

Especially considering how much of west texas is a barren wasteland, they could easily build solar farms as far as the eye could see and never have to worry about energy production pollution again.

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CommonConfusables t1_j8wot46 wrote

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/23577512/texas-clean-energy-wind-solar-natural-gas-ercot-blackout

Here is an article discussing how Texas is a leader in wind and solar, and how lawmakers invested in coal, gas, and oil are trying to make renewables more difficult to get, make, or add to the system for their own financial benefit.

You can’t deny that there are shitty lawmakers trying to hold back forward motion for their own financial benefit and that many of the ones in Texas for this situation are Republican.

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Conscious_Figure_554 t1_j8uokfo wrote

Thanks for the information - I did not know that so thanks. IF that is the case then do you think the adoption rate will not be blocked by the Government? What I mean is that as I assume you are a Texan - do you see your local government officials welcome this adoption with open arms and is gearing the populace towards said adoption?

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tilhow2reddit t1_j8wocdu wrote

Actual Texan here. Cities like Houston are trying to go 100% renewable with their energy consumption (investing in solar farms, and or purchasing only renewable energy for city buildings, parks, projects, etc.)

At the state level you’re unlikely to see a similar approach adopted because there’s entirely too much O&G money with too much influence in that arena.

But you also won’t see much interference because that would be telling Texas landowners what they can and can’t build on their massive ranches in West Texas. Out in the Permian Basin, where there’s nothing but miles and miles of miles and miles. The area is hot, dry, flat, and sees the sun more often than most other places on earth. It’s ripe for wind and solar. And as the oil out there dries up, that barren land will be used for something.

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Conscious_Figure_554 t1_j8xnd7l wrote

Thanks. I like being proven wrong with facts. Yep Ly comment was reactionary but I think setting me straight with actual facts to change my mind is great.

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ThePrince14 t1_j8upa86 wrote

It depends how you look at the adoption rate. Texas has been and will continue to be (at least in the short to medium term) very oil and gas friendly because it contributes a massive amount to their economy.

So is Texas going to go out of their way to ban oil and gas to prop up renewables, like California? Hell no. They’re going to continue encouraging investment in an industry that has allowed them to become the second biggest economy in the country. But they also aren’t going to discourage investment in renewables in the state because any investment in the state is a good thing.

Edit: Since you edited your post to add that last question - I am not from Texas, I just choose to try and actually educate myself instead of parroting the same BS everyone posts in every Reddit thread.

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Conscious_Figure_554 t1_j8v8ehm wrote

Again thanks. Hopefully the adoption is easier. As much as I do not like what the politicians are doing to any state, they (the politicians) are never really affected. It’s the citizenry that gets fucked every time.

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SherbetShoddy8432 t1_j8wabnj wrote

Doesn’t matter. Texas sucks. Fuck Abbott and the people who voted for him

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Caldaga t1_j8wtin6 wrote

I'm not going to argue further but if your intent is to imply that Abbott and his cronies are pro renewables you've already lost the plot decades ago.

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ThePrince14 t1_j8wvcbb wrote

Did I say that anywhere in my posts? Please show me where I said that.

My only point was that Reddit likes to paint Texas with the broad brush that they’re this super conservative devil state against anything progressive, when in reality, if you look at the actual numbers, Texas has had massive amounts of investment in renewables and generates the most renewable energy in the country.

Just tired of the BS black and white hive mind on Reddit that lacks any sort of nuanced thinking. You can hate Abbott and the things he’s trying to do in the state while also stepping back to understand that Texas as a state is doing a great job of developing renewable energy infrastructure and should be supported in doing so.

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Caldaga t1_j8wxrcu wrote

I live in TX. I was here when their grid failed thanks to their lack of investment in any infrastructure. Abbot can fuck himself.

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caguru t1_j8uy4w4 wrote

Your 2nd question describes Reddit pretty well actually.

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vacapupu t1_j8wng44 wrote

That energy doesn't make it to the city. Lots of it gets dumped because they can't use it all out west.

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