Submitted by poke133 t3_zyw374 in technology
Comments
poke133 OP t1_j28mjio wrote
And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling reddit user!
granoladeer t1_j2bgrn5 wrote
Scooby doo by doo!
BasilExposition75 t1_j29e7kb wrote
I have been thinking of buying in. The PE ratio is starting to look good for a company growing that fast.
Mistyslate t1_j29svro wrote
Hopefully, their P/E ratio should be soon at the level they deserve. 6.76 and not 37.65.
BasilExposition75 t1_j2drimh wrote
They deserve? What did they ever do to you? Are you one of these ICE forever fans?
Mistyslate t1_j2egz5z wrote
Nah. I am r/fuckcars follower
Whompa t1_j29zjvr wrote
You mean the super reliable and well known news group “inside evs . com” might have a motive to push Tesla numbers?
poke133 OP t1_j2a7hbq wrote
to put your mind at ease, Inside EV article just quotes from a generic car website: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-model-y-passes-vw-golf-europes-top-seller
TeddyBongwater t1_j2cmra9 wrote
Somebody wishes they owned any stock lol
Seleene t1_j2bxdsk wrote
I’m not. I’m steadily buying weekly. Yes, Elon is acting like an idiot, but remove emotion from it and look at the actual company performance and financials. It’s one of the best performing companies of the last few years, with no sign of slowing down. Regardless of how many others are trying to catch up, Tesla will sell every single car it produces for the next five years with no problem.
As for the cars, my mother was the early adopter and has a Model Y and it’s her favorite car ever. One and a half years of driving and not a rattle or problem at all. It laughs at Colorado winters. I started this year with an Audi Q5 and A6. Now I have a Model 3 and a Model S. Previously I drove a BMW 335d. I know exactly what “quality” is and I have exactly zero regrets. I fucking LOVE every moment I spend in these cars.
I know it’s easy to bandwagon, but it’s absurd the number of people who have never driven ANY EV who just want to shit on Tesla.
sobanz t1_j2bxwhf wrote
someone needs to make a addon like the scammer list to tag people crying about Tesla while posting in /r/fuckcars
jessief2 t1_j2ciigy wrote
Owned a model Y, wasn’t worth the price. For ~62k I could find better. EV charging is only great for commuters. If you just need a car for anything else, go gas or a cheaper EV if you really want one. The gas vs electric savings for me wasn’t worth it and other cars (BMW x5, gle) etc are much better in terms of quality/feeling.
Leuchty t1_j2an9p3 wrote
I thought it is known that Tesla delivers all their cars at one time.
Just look at the numbers in October. The Model Y is not even in the top 10. Or you can look at the yearly numbers...
One month is not a good timeframe to compare
Messier_82 t1_j2bhxxw wrote
Weird, that’s crazy if true. Do they just put them all on a single ship? Is it somehow cheaper? Otherwise I’d assume they ship them as they roll off the production line
swistak84 t1_j2bvgld wrote
>Weird, that’s crazy if true. Do they just put them all on a single ship? Is it somehow cheaper? Otherwise I’d assume they ship them as they roll off the production line
It's true, you can look at the numbers yourself.
This is related to two things:
- A lots of their cars are still shipped in. So one or two ships arriving with thousands of cars each will skew statistics for that month.
- Tesla overall has strong pushes at the end of the quarter. If you look at the graphs of their sales it's basically peaks and holes whole year, while most other car makers are more flat. This is mostly left-over from the time they were producing thousands of cars, struggling to survive and every quarter counted. Old habits die hard
soldiernerd t1_j2bzf2h wrote
Traditionally, all globally sold vehicles (ie outside US) were made in Shanghai and shipped early in the quarter. As the quarter progressed, Shanghai would shift to local deliveries.
They’ve made some efforts to unwind this delivery pattern, and they now make Model Ys for Europe in Germany, but Europe still receives a lot of Chinese exports (and US exports for Model S/X) so the deliveries are still somewhat “lumpy”.
This should continue to smooth out however
ResponsibleAd2541 t1_j2bqwsr wrote
They make’em in Berlin?
Messier_82 t1_j2bsb8t wrote
Then it would make even less sense for them to deliver all at once… is that person full of it?
ResponsibleAd2541 t1_j2bt198 wrote
I think they ramped up production at that factory so perhaps they are thinking a big shift in the number of deliveries reflects something else. If they were shipped from America, I don’t see how they would “all” show up at once. They’d have to stockpile them or something then ship them. Unless they were all on the same boat but that’s unlikely. I dunno what the other fellow is referring to.
It costs money to warehouse product.
kuldan5853 t1_j2bx1c0 wrote
Germany was (and still is) serviced mainly by Shanghai, not Fremont
swistak84 t1_j2buwnf wrote
Some of them, a lot still sails in from China
Jessica65Perth t1_j2c3tvd wrote
Yes true, I read last week Australia is about to get two shiploads buyers have waited months for. Maybe they wait to have enough orders to ship in bulk and get cheaper shipping bills as a result
Mental5tate t1_j2dbz22 wrote
That is a nice publicity trick👍
Explains the long waits….
TeddyBongwater t1_j2cmp60 wrote
Not true at all
nyaaaa t1_j2dhcln wrote
If only there was a linked article that contained the information in the second sentence.
Guess you have to remain ignorant.
TeddyBongwater t1_j2e8771 wrote
Should take your own advice.
Looking at the remaining 90 models, remarkable is the performance scored by the Tesla Model Y in 32nd place, by the Toyota Yaris Cross in 41st, and the new Volkswagen Taigo in 74th.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles-leading-models-europe/
nyaaaa t1_j2e9nro wrote
My own advice? To read the second sentence of the article, which confirms what Leuchty stated?
Ok I did that, how is anything else you are writing in any way relevant now?
All still remains true despite your claim to the contrary.
TeddyBongwater t1_j2ebnka wrote
He said they deliver ALL their cars at one time. Not true
sammich4mehplz t1_j2c85je wrote
You disagree with elon politically therefore his company must be bad. You're a shrill
Brett-the-charmer t1_j28bzar wrote
Then Elon took over twitter
setphasorstolove t1_j29pfvh wrote
He technically took over at the end of October.
Brett-the-charmer t1_j29ue4b wrote
The curve has got to have time to turn
[deleted] t1_j29z3s5 wrote
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Pool_Party_Ziggs t1_j2aafjl wrote
Yes because Tesla is trash and junk to it's competitors. I'm not gonna fan girl over some idiot privileged billionaire with and his trash cars.
[deleted] t1_j2aawv6 wrote
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ImJackthedog t1_j2abvwg wrote
>Tesla is trash and junk
>this is your feelings
I agree that’s a fairly emotionally charged way to put it, but there’s also this-
“Last year, Consumer Reports ranked Tesla, the electric vehicle manufacturer with a market capitalization of over $1 trillion, 27th out of 28 brands [for reliability]”
Source https://www.hotcars.com/truth-about-tesla-reliability/
paintball6818 t1_j2aulwe wrote
In China Tesla Model Y ranked as the most reliable EV in China where there actually is competition. Also Consumer Reports is run by an ex Ford Executive and receives a large portion of funding from the Ford Foundation and GM.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-y-china-reliability-quality-survey/amp/
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Pool_Party_Ziggs t1_j2ad3zf wrote
That's one model not Tesla and they have so few models it isn't sterchted out between 150 car models of other brands. This is the fact.
CatProgrammer t1_j2amj0o wrote
I'd just like them to kick out Musk so they can have some actually competent leadership rather than a CEO who is now spending all of his time driving Twitter into the dirt.
Chupacabra_Ag t1_j2a2uzg wrote
They want elon to fail because he is brave enough to go against the grain
setphasorstolove t1_j29wxxo wrote
December numbers aren't out yet
[deleted] t1_j2ab0gp wrote
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Brett-the-charmer t1_j2aj9tp wrote
You mean the Tesla demographic?
BababooeyHTJ t1_j28ucps wrote
Why? Are gas prices that high where it becomes such an attractive option compared to a hybrid like a Prius? Is the model y comparatively cheaper than other crossovers than in the US? Some sort of tax incentive? Average wealth higher?
I’m genuinely curious and don’t know enough about the EU economy.
Pdxlater t1_j28yv5i wrote
You will find a really negative narrative here, but it’s a really great car. The size is very functional, the tech is great, it’s very comfortable, and range is very high. Tesla still tops the industry in customer satisfaction.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j2981bt wrote
I completely understand that. I’m just surprised that such an expensive car is the top selling car in Europe. There’s something more to it. It’s 3 times the cost of a Prius here in the US. I can’t see the gas and possible service savings ever covering the difference not even including interest payments on the higher valued car.
Pdxlater t1_j29jgkj wrote
People don’t buy it for the cost savings. As much as people harp that Tesla isn’t a “luxury” brand, a big part of its market is taken from customers who would otherwise buy BMW, MB, etc.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j29xtfa wrote
When are any one of those status symbols the top selling cars in any area?
Pdxlater t1_j2a4hon wrote
It is a consolidation effect. The top monthly car in Europe is typically a compact car selling about 15K units. There is just not anything in the Model Y's league in terms of size/price in the market right now. A base Y in Germany is 54K euro. An ID.4 seems to be about 44K, but is significantly smaller. Now that production is fully underway it takes demand from a lot of other classes. That has been part of the sales success in the US. Prior brands of Tesla owners in the US range from Toyota to Mercedes.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j2aacwd wrote
Thank you! That makes a lot of sense.
paintball6818 t1_j2avooa wrote
I mean in Germany you can get like $9000 in incentives and tax savings, and then you go about saving $700 a year in gas, less maintenance and helping the environment.
Alimbiquated t1_j2b1vgd wrote
Also a lot of the cars in Germany are company cars, and there is a price range built in to the contract.
happyscrappy t1_j2b58zw wrote
It's just one car. It has this effect where people who buy an EV are disproportionately likely to buy this one car.
Non-EV crossovers as a whole massively outsell it. Also VW sells more EVs than Tesla does in Europe also, it just is spread across multiple models.
But if you are just looking at which car sold the most it's that one.
It won't last. All the European car companies are targeting Tesla and making gains. Another car (likely from a European make) will take over to become the most sold car in Europe.
AR2185 t1_j29cl66 wrote
When I bought my Tesla Y in early ‘21 it was about double the cost of a Prius. I work in construction management with some very long commutes and the math worked in its favor when I compared gas savings to larger car payments. Added bonus is I can charge at work for free most days as well, but that didn’t factor into my decision to buy because that can always go away. But I think they have more expensive in the time since. Prius is also much smaller, so the closer comparison would be the Rav-4 hybrid
themiracy t1_j29f3qa wrote
I thought that the quality reviews on this particular model were quite poor. Has this stuff gotten a lot better?
poke133 OP t1_j2a9amm wrote
Consumer Reports - 14 Dec 2022 - Tesla and Nissan Make the Most Reliable Electric Vehicles
> The relatively strong reliability of the Model 3 is unique among Tesla’s lineup: Its other models remain below average. Closely related to the Model 3, the newer Model Y has improved in recent years but still shows some suspension issues and body hardware problems associated with closing the hatch, and paint and trim. Owners have reported problems with the air suspension on the higher-end Tesla models.
it seems ModelY still has to catch up to Model3 in overall quality.
themiracy t1_j2aa05k wrote
Ahh, thanks for the point about the 3. I didn't know that it was doing better, that's nice to hear.
Apolitik t1_j2b7gxs wrote
I got a Y in October. A year before I test drove a 2020 Y—it was shit. The Y I got is one of the nicest cars I’ve ever been in. Spartan minimalism aside, the interior is incredibly comfortable and well put together. I’d say they’ve improved the quality a lot, but I also got an Austin built Y where I know the original Fremont built Ys were dogshit.
Pdxlater t1_j29h38t wrote
Initial quality that also includes cosmetic defects can be very different than overall customer satisfaction where Tesla excels.
SponConSerdTent t1_j29t30z wrote
I have to imagine that part of it is the fact that Tesla has so few models.
Since other manufacturers have what, 10, 15 different models to choose from, they could sell 10x as many cars, but the model Y could still be the bestseller.
If someone wants to buy a Tesla, they get the Model Y.
kuldan5853 t1_j29x0pi wrote
Yeah, that's basically the reason.
Teslas are still a speck of dust compared to the rest of the car market, it's just this single model gets sold more than the hundreds of other models on the market.
Even if the number are like 100 Model Y and 99 of each other car on the market, it would still be #1 even though overall it's not even a dent in the full picture.
swistak84 t1_j2bvsk4 wrote
With all fairness Tesla is more then a dent now. They sell more cars then Mazda, so they are not some minor player anymore. But you are completely right, the way they deliver cars and limited amount of models (really only 2 of them are mass market cars: 3 & Y). Means they are very high in sales-per-model stats.
kuldan5853 t1_j2bwj3d wrote
For sure - Tesla is still building some interesting tech (even though I personally hate the UX concepts and design principles that go in those cars) that is interesting to some, maybe even many.
But - their technological leadership (mainly drive train/battery tech) will not last forever, and more and more legacy automakers are now coming to market with attractive EV options that might appeal to a more conservative audience like myself.
It doesn't help that Tesla seems to be developing more and more for the tastes of one egocentric person instead of mass market appeal (the "Homer" comes to mind) - Sure, there's people that love whatever Tesla is doing with the yoke, stalkless design, the games, the fart modes and whatnot, (as well as the screen focuses UX that is divisive) but that's not mass market appeal.
I think the next three years will be a hard time for Tesla, especially in Europe - their cars are simply not adapted well to the European market at the moment, and good alternatives are coming to market at an ever increasing rate.
Leuchty t1_j2anekq wrote
Because Tesla delivered all their model Y in November. Look at the statistics for October, you won't find the Model Y in the top ten
rootbeerdan t1_j2a311i wrote
Taxes are so incredibly high in the EU and EVs have substantial VAT and registration exemptions to the point where a Prius would be the same price as a Tesla Model Y in some countries.
You can get a brand new Prius OTD for ~30k USD in most of the US, but you aren't getting a Prius for less than 45k EUR (50k USD) in most of Europe, and then you also have to pay 8 dollars per gallon to fill it up.
Imagine if you had to choose between a 50k Prius or a 55k Tesla (after subsidies), and you can see why these higher end EVs are doing so well.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j2aai0s wrote
That’s not even a decision at that point lol
TheUnfathomableFrog t1_j28x418 wrote
Among many reasons, gas is very expensive in Europe, much of it is cities that are poorly suited for combustion vehicles (city driving is inefficient, hence burning more gas), many governments are outlawing the sale of new consumer combustion vehicles in a few years to combat climate effects of combustion vehicles (so many people are getting ahead), to facilitate this many counties has increased taxes on combustion vehicles (IIRC Norway or Sweden has like 100% tax on combustion vehicles), so electric vehicles are better positioned price wise in some countries.
BababooeyHTJ t1_j298v8s wrote
I understand that but we’re talking about a car 3 times the cost of a Prius. Unless you can foot a much larger down payment you’re paying significantly more monthly in just interest payments that you’re never getting back. I’m having a hard time seeing where the savings come from.
Tax incentives makes sense but is just Sweden and Norway enough to skew the results for all of Europe?
I completely understand the appeal of the model y but it’s way out of my price range.
UnPlugged_Toaster t1_j2bq1vj wrote
its 3 times the cost of a prius here in NA, not really anymore as the new one starts at like 30k.
In Europe, your paying 8 bucks a gallon or even more, the VAT on ICE cars is really high to the point where its actually more expensive to buy a Prius than a Model 3 upfront. Then you get into the whole cost of electricity versus gas, little maintenance (no oil changes, less break weak, no transmissions, etc)
Majority of Europeans pay out the ass for gas because most European countries don't really product any of their own.
Like gas cars are so absurdly expensive in Europe, a base camry hybrid is FUCKING 61K USD: https://www.toyota.dk/nye-biler/camry
The model Y is 50000 Danish Krone more which is 5k USD and the model 3 standard range plus is cheaper and this is without any incentives. So in large swathes of Europe, its cheaper to buy a expensive ass Tesla than a toyota base trim upfront.
NA is kinda spoiled with its super cheap prices. Everything is so cheap here.
MrDagon007 t1_j2ape09 wrote
Well, for example in Belgium, most of the relatively expensive cars are leased by the company. The leasing price depends on lots of things, including taxes, running costs and resale value. This is why back when I lived there, I had a nice mercedes C in diesel in the same budget as some nondescript hyundai in petrol. I now see many of my colleagues, depending on the job level, ordering Tesla 3, Y, Polestar or BMW i series cars.
lord_pizzabird t1_j2996m7 wrote
I think the biggest issue with the Prius is just it's Dorkyness.
It's societally considered one of the least cool, rock bottom things you can buy. Where Tesla's may be unreliable, but they're atleast super cool.
Alimbiquated t1_j2b2rzf wrote
All the cars in the showroom of the the local Toyota dealer here (in Germany) are hybrid. They sell pretty well.
lord_pizzabird t1_j2b3wyz wrote
Yeah, nobody said that they don't sell well.
paintball6818 t1_j2aut2c wrote
Gas is like $7/gal there. The economics is much better.
Capenalcode101 t1_j29lx9x wrote
This is getting downvoted to oblivion and it’s statistically true write up 🤣
poke133 OP t1_j2a7ylx wrote
not what reddit wants to hear it seems.. 😅
Leuchty t1_j2ankdq wrote
Well for one month it is true, but if you expand your horizon and look at the numbers from the other months/the whole year. model Y is far away from the first place ...
Capenalcode101 t1_j2b9i4t wrote
That’s why the title says November
deckstern t1_j2b6ul3 wrote
I spent past summer traveling through Europe and I have not seen many Teslas but I've seen at least 15 different electric cars I had no idea existed (and some looked amazing)
N3KIO t1_j2cps3c wrote
yeah, there is a lot of electric cars in the world made by different companies, USA dose not allow them to import the cars.
you should see the cars made in china, india, and japan, they are on another level compared to tesla or any American car.
[deleted] t1_j29zadj wrote
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TeddyBongwater t1_j2cnd2j wrote
2022 YTD
Looking at the remaining 90 models, remarkable is the performance scored by the Tesla Model Y in 32nd place, by the Toyota Yaris Cross in 41st, and the new Volkswagen Taigo in 74th.
[deleted] t1_j2a1ir7 wrote
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kingsadlo t1_j2b8wia wrote
Great car, world really needs to mass use electric cars or generation of our kids is f..
Throwawaystartover t1_j2b94x2 wrote
BUT ELON BAD MAN
GeneralNathanJessup t1_j2c1iru wrote
graspaevinci t1_j2bib65 wrote
But why?
mistywalrus t1_j2bq3a1 wrote
Because they deliver all of their orders at once.
AwareMirror9931 t1_j2cd91m wrote
Yeah right. And the tesla stock still going down.
TheseLipsSinkShips t1_j2a56qq wrote
I feel so sorry for these consumers because… Tesla won’t survive Musk’s dishonor.
phxees t1_j285xs9 wrote
That’s only because the BMW iX2 isn’t out yet. BMW is set to sell hundreds.
ClubBoth8908 t1_j28ucsv wrote
Not anymore.
basey t1_j29k13n wrote
Pardon?
XRaySporks t1_j2ad97p wrote
Europeans jumping on the Tesla bandwagon just as Americans start to realize how crappy they are.
gregsapopin t1_j28ssk1 wrote
You're welcome Europe.
s1ngular1ty2 t1_j29wfvc wrote
I mean Europeans buy mercedes and land rover. They hardly have good taste since those vehicles have some of the worst quality records in history. So this feels about right.
UnPlugged_Toaster t1_j2bqjbj wrote
This is a very NA centric take. You think Mercedes in Europe has the same quality as NA. German cars in NA are made in America or Mexico with shit build quality, while in Europe, they are obviously built in Europe. Whevever you device to take a vacation abroad, you notice alot of used bmw's and mercedes being driven around Europe and the middle east cause they are fucking tanks.
The reason why parts for german cars are expensive here is cause they manufacture the parts in Europe and ship them over to NA.
kuldan5853 t1_j2bx7e0 wrote
Also, lots of import taxes to import car stuff to the US.
ControlledShutdown t1_j28avdc wrote
Somebody is looking for an out for their Tesla stock