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FoggyBottom4u t1_j1fnvvo wrote

Immigration is good for a country as a whole. What's lacking is oversight. Withe these kind of visas as well as illegal immigration. There's widespread abuse of H1B visas. Even at my small-ish Midwestern company, US citizens are being replaced by cheaper overseas workers on some kind of visa. Maybe good for them, but it sucks for US citizens.

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Sniffy4 t1_j1g5ef7 wrote

the problem is tech companies feel free to abuse their h1b workers with absurd work requirements because their alternatives are limited, and the detrimental effects spill over to their domestic co-workers as well

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neomis t1_j1i1t8m wrote

This. I’ve seen h1b’s put up with so much toxic culture because if they get fired they have something like 30 days to find a new job or they’re kicked out of the country. The companies Glassdoor rating was terrible and no engineer with any other option would apply. Instead of fixing the culture issue and raising wages they just hired more h1b people and the downward spiral continued. It sucks because it also drives a wedge with employees who blame h1bs for keeping wages / conditions down when really everyone should just be blaming upper management.

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hodl_4_life t1_j1iijtq wrote

The rich guy convincing the middle class guy to blame the poor guy… isn’t that what making America great again is all about?

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[deleted] t1_j1fym3p wrote

[deleted]

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sex_is_immutabl t1_j1jqpau wrote

They tried it in the UK but we just wind up with the shit left over that couldn't get into the US with the H1b lottery. ARM Holdings in particular made a massive push for "diversity" and in reality just hired a load of indians cheaper than a UK citizen owuld have accepted. It turned CB1 into an entire slum in the process. Guess who owned the property there?

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9-11GaveMe5G t1_j1frwfx wrote

I think with immigration, much like healthcare, the majority of us agree it's a problem and needs fixing. We just can't agree on the path forward.

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thatVisitingHasher t1_j1j6j0f wrote

The problem is I feel like we’re putting our fingers in our ears and refusing to move the conversation forward

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PacmanIncarnate t1_j1geboi wrote

Then we should be streamlining the green card process. H1B wages are depressed by the requirement that you work for just that one company. If we put people through the security checks for H1B and they show they are employable in a high income field, they’ve essentially proven they are worth keeping here and shouldn’t be a burden, which is what a lot of our immigration system seems to be based on.

Immigration is good. Immigrants earning money here and spending it here is good. Ensuring foreign workers view their time here as temporary and take their accumulated wealth and experience back with them to another country is just idiotic. It’s the worst outcome: locals have less chance to get a high paying job because there are H1Bs to fill the roles with less power to negotiate, AND the wealth is largely transferred out of the country.

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Raalf t1_j1gqot6 wrote

except these H1Bs are taking half the rate (or 1/3 the rate) of domestic roles. The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States.

That is the abuse going on, and until the H1B visa makes the salary of the visa-holder equal or above that of domestic market it's just outsourcing and not as intended.

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uselessadjective t1_j1grzsj wrote

Woah, I am shocked at most of the comments here.

I used to work for a big billion dollar firm on H1B (long time back) and my package was over $300K. I mean come on, I used to get over $60K just in stocks every year.

There is so much wrong news that H1Bs are underpaid. If the folks are referring to Consulting Firms then YES they abuse H1B.

Bur companies like Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta pay over $400K also for qualified H1B.

So using a blanket statement that All H1Bs are undeepaid and used to replace local jobs is wrong

These are mostly stupid folks commenting here. Either they are disconnected from the reality OR Just pure jealous.

One thing which I have seen in H1Bs or folks on VISA is they work way too hard (because they purchase house, have kids etc and can not afford to uproot everything and end up overworking). Unfortunately US Capitalism wants more revenue every quarter to show to NYSE so the H1B guy working day-night takes the promotion. It is mainly the drive to suceed. I have seen over 1000s of H1B guys almost all working 12+hrs daily (weekend working pretty common) and guess what Corporate America Likes this..

So if you wanna blame then blame Corporate America

Now I have Green Card so I dont toil hard over weekends, Guess what my VP has caught another H1B guy who can deliver 2 projects :) This is a system and not fault of H1B folks. I am now on other side of the fence and probably VP might kick me out some day because he'll obviously draw my comparison with the other H1B folk (who works 2x for the same salary). Corporate America guys. So you have a choice Either work like hell OR Coporate American Execs will just find an excuse to replace. I am on the other side of the fence but I know life of H1B guy is. The harsh truth is One can not compete with a guy who is willing to work 15hrs daily to protect his working status What will a local guy do here ? Tell me some genius idea which I can also implement in my life.

It is the Executives, CEOs, COOs takinf advantage of the system. I also know some folks on H1B in Google getting $650K. I know a doctor on H1B who gets $800K yearly but these guys are asked to work 15+hrs a day and they work happily because they want to succeed at every cost.

Even if locals try to compete they will have to keep their 'work-life balance out' and trust me the moment anyone tries to bring this up to HR then they'll be shown the door using some excuse.

Corporate America wants slaves to work which can lead to more projects in shorter timeframe, more revenue. Cost is not much of a factor. Also Trump and Obama Admin did a lot of cleanup.

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kalipede t1_j1gtbto wrote

I have worked for multiple companies in the Bay Area and the visa workers were all paid really well.

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Raalf t1_j1gsfps wrote

I can tell you personally I have watched over 3500 positions (probably closer to 5-10k but I'm going with confirmed rate drops by me firsthand only) in the last 10 years get outsourced to half or below wages to H1Bs. I'm sure that's just a minor number in your book but it sure as fuck looks large when it's in your city, your companies, and your field. Call it whatever you want but it's real and it's now.

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uselessadjective t1_j1guo6l wrote

What you mentioned is H1B Consulting Firms NOT companies like Google, Microsoft, Tesla, Meta etc...

When you say you managed 3500 positions I expected you to have better knowledge of H1B Consulting Firms vs H1B Product Based Companies

You just desribed the problem. Most folks don't know these 2 types of H1B Companies and are way too over confident to pass a judgment

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Raalf t1_j1gvmhf wrote

You're right. I'm dumb. I just speak what I see, which is rampant H1B abuse. No sense in me passing judgement over your self-imposed compartmentalization.

Simple solution: enforce the intent of the law. Pay above market wage to H1Bs.

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draculas-shaggyballs t1_j1hiyu3 wrote

You don't even have to work that much harder. What matters is the output. And those of us coming from overpopulated underdeveloped countries have been forged in an environment where you need to have a hyperactive attitude to outcompete your peers. I don't work any harder than American students at my grad school, and my professor doesn't want me working after hours either. Many of the faculty I'm familiar with basically say that they've started preferring East Asian and South Asian students because they can be more productive and more interesting than American students at the same time. All the Asian grad students here seem to be top of the class, high up in citations, pop culture nerds, classical musicians, sports heads, fitness enthusiasts, technical gurus- all at the same time.

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uselessadjective t1_j1hw1cj wrote

You just desribed the problem in again (as above) in your own words.

How do you solve it ?

Coporate America love this kind of hyperactive, over compering folks. Fuels their revenues and stocks prices.

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cusmilie t1_j1jml9d wrote

What jobs are making over $400k in Microsoft, Google, etc.? General curious because I know tons of people that work for them and nobody makes that much.

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uselessadjective t1_j1ksypn wrote

SWE Or Sr SWE to start

TPM - Technical Program Manager Product Manager Sr Product Manager

Mostly any job above L6 (Level 6) ia $400K at Google.DM me for details.

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imissze90s t1_j1idg82 wrote

It's difficult to feel sympathy for "slaves" making high six figure salaries.

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uselessadjective t1_j1ifqmw wrote

So the alternative is to smash them ? Right instead of criticizing CEOs

What a great attitude. If you cant make money so criticise those who make money. Why don't you work 15hrs so that the CEO hires you.

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PiedCryer t1_j1g9sdm wrote

True, the abuse is rampant and why companies like Cisco will do mass layoffs once in a while to clean house. Some cultures create a system that if you hire another that they will provide you a percentage of their salary. It then snowballs from their until corporate cleans house. Then it starts all over again.

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MuscleHead2022 t1_j1gpy0y wrote

They’ve filled it feels like 1/3 of our customer service with international folks that are likely cheaper and don’t have to pay benefits. We never got the complaints about having people that can’t speak English until last year.

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venti_cocaine_latte t1_j1i5hay wrote

I agree, and the quality of these H1Bs is subpar at best…not to mention severe lack of professionalism…it’s like being in a kitboga scam call everyday.

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MountainScorpion t1_j1insvr wrote

H1-B should be banned entirely. We have hundreds of thousands of unemployed programmers already here. There is no excuse. There are people who can and will do the jobs - pay the damn wage the market demands.

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i_max2k2 t1_j1gj7rz wrote

From where do you base this wide spread abuse? Obama tightened a lot of these policies. H1B Visas are hard to get, most tech companies prefer to find US citizens who can fill these roles, and for the last decade or so prefer to have fewer people on visas as they can. US citizens are much more likely to get a job if they can be close to enough. The issue is they aren’t a whole lot of qualified workers available visas or not.

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FoggyBottom4u t1_j1gk2ai wrote

.... on about 150 US citizens replaced by foreign IT staff in my company. Not all at once but 10 here, 10 there, over a few years. There's qualified definitely US citizens looking for jobs....

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i_max2k2 t1_j1gydmm wrote

So it’s I said so. Which company are you referring to?

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techmagenta t1_j1gjrp6 wrote

It’s actually very easy to hire an H1B worker.

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dinner_is_not_ready t1_j1h20ku wrote

That’s incorrect - it’s actually easier to hire someone who doesn’t require engaging a length, expensive, and frequent process with uscis

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quettil t1_j1hy3bt wrote

> Immigration is good for a country as a whole.

It's neutral really, you can gain or lose good or bad people. Immigration is always a zero sum game.

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DrQuantum t1_j1g0d39 wrote

The only problem there is the company exploiting cheap labor.

I’m not suggesting all visas are the same quality but r/technology seems to be very pro meritocracy. Its not a meeitocracy if you’re denying H1-B visas simply to benefit american workers.

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Sniffy4 t1_j1g5n0k wrote

expecting everyone who works at the company to devote their entire life to work musk-style is not a really a 'meritocracy' but just exploitation

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DrQuantum t1_j1g7exl wrote

Many people here constantly says they want a meritocracy and that bias in hiring doesn’t exist. Now you’re saying immigrants are stealing your jobs and they aren’t qualified either. Its just because its exploitation.

The point I am making is that if you want to address the issue, punish the companies not the H1-B visas.

This has nothing to do with immigration if you truly believe its about exploitation. The companies are doing the exploiting and people are happy to accept lower pay because there is no good way to get in here.

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Sniffy4 t1_j1gdijd wrote

>Now you’re saying immigrants are stealing your jobs and they aren’t qualified either.

Baloney, please point out exactly where I said that above. In fact I am saying that companies abuse h1-b limitations to raise performance requirements to unethical levels and term that 'meritocracy'

>This has nothing to do with immigration

The threat of being uprooted with your family and forced to leave the country is a very real thing which is the whole point of the article, duh. It has *everything* to do with immigration.

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simiamor t1_j1gmeh8 wrote

It sure did suck for native Americans when they were forcefully displaced and replaced by white population. I say let them feel the heat of being replaced by cheaper foreign workers because their imperial capitalist policies have had effects on all such populations everywhere directly or indirectly. That's what they get for hogging a big continent and just fucking around while the rest of the world grinded their asses and jumped obstacles to improve themselves tremendously. Every single one of those cheap foreign workers is way more qualified and knowledgeable than an average American. It's their beloved meritocratic capitalist economic system playing out just as intended, you'd think that this would compel them to address wealth inequalities and basic healthcare and readjust into the new economic system, but we all know these neanderthals will just blame people trying to improve their life by being the racists that they are.

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