Submitted by CaptainJZH t3_10mq259 in todayilearned
I could be mixing up uncontacted tribes but I think I’m the 19th century somebody from the “real” world went to the island and he was welcomed and they had a civil meeting. But because they’re isolated and don’t have any exposure to our basic virus’ their leader for sick and died. I think since then they’ve viewed any attempted contact as an attack. Maybe seeing these guys dismantling a ship right off the beach and not attempting to explore the island told them that these guys weren’t trying to attack. Uncontacted tribes are so interesting to me especially in 2023 with the 24 he news and social media influence. I want to know if they’re mentally healthier than us or if we need a middle ground.
I imagine life is pretty brutal in the Sentinelese islands.
For starters your entire existence is dictated by tribal law
Second, you have nowhere else to go
Third, no modern medical equipment, the flu will end their lives
Lastly there is limited agriculture
On on hand you are free from the burden of choice, but on the other you aren't given many choices at all.
I'm sure some have found peace, while others suffer silently
The problem is that North Sentinel island isn't in the middle of nowhere. There are other islands in the area where the native were brought "civilization". The result was poverty and misery. The sad truth is that they're probably better off being left alone
While it's easy to romanticize the avoidance of Civilization while we're in it, I don't really think life is "better" for them.
I think it makes "us" feel better, because we can say we kept someone away from it all, but in reality it we're just gatekeeping.
The country of Iceland (372k people) has an app because accidental incest was such a thing, now how do you think the Sentinelese (<200people ) are doing? You need around 500 or so to be able to avoid "genetic drift"
All that being said, I do think we should leave them alone
But on the other, if it turned out the island had used their young women to breed like cattle as soon as they're fertile, would we still leave them to their isolated ways?
The question I've always asked is would you rather the middle class today or a king A Thousand Years ago? 95% of people say they would rather be middle class today.
The other 5% are the ones who are rooting for society to collapse
Why do you assume that tribal law is automatically bad?
Why do you assume they want to go somewhere else? They could build boats and leave if they wanted.
Where would the flu come from?
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about them and their lives.
>Why do you assume that tribal law is automatically bad? >
Little oversight due to lack of peers, I'm sure they still have a justice system of sorts though
>Why do you assume they want to go somewhere else? They could build boats and leave if they wanted. >
I assume most creatures with sentience tend to desire to branch out on occasion, also idk if the isolated North Sentinelese tribe can just up and make a seafaring craft anymore, it's been 60k years since they've arrived on the Island.
>Where would the flu come from? >
Ok sure, maybe not the flu, how about contracting a disease from an infected carcass?
>You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about them and their lives.
Well, since I'm not going to go and meet them anytime soon, then yes, that is what I'm doing, because visiting them would very possibly kill them.
>the flu will end their lives
The only way they will get flu would be by contact with outsiders. (Which is why that arrogant missionary may, for all we know, have killed them by carrying with him the common cold, or other viruses they have no resistance to).
If they don't know any different then why would subjects like choice and the ability to have the freedom to choose between regular,soy and oat milk bother them and as far law and governance why would that bother them either we also live under tribal law but our "tribe" is much larger and our laws are much broader in scope since there is a law that will dictate what we can or cannot do for every second of our day.everybody suffers from time to time but its how we deal with hardships that count and finding your own version of peace in this life.
Similarly, most people suffer in our society, and some have found peace. Maybe they're better off
>Sentinelese islands
It’s just one island that they live on. North Sentinel Island.
The rest of the islands are the Andaman and Nicobar islands.
There are other modern peoples inhabiting the other islands.
I once met the widow of a man killed by isolated indigenous people of the Amazon basin. It was one of the more interesting evenings I spent on that trip abroad. Such encounters are quite rare for obvious reasons.
So if the Sentinelese are going to use the scrap metal to make tools and weapons does that count as a technological revolution, sort of like entering the iron age?
How advanced do they need to become to lose the "primitive isolated people" label?
Oh they absolutely were thrusted into an Iron Age of sorts, cause they have been spotted using metal-tipped spears and whatnot. And who knows, the rusting hulk of the ship is still there so they have a pretty good supply for a while, maybe eventually they'll put metal to fire and discover what you can do with that.
This is basically the equivalent of us reverse-engineering a crashed alien spaceship lol
I think that kind of thing happened a couple of times during the island hopping phase of WW2. There were religions set up around this concept.
There's also a tribe in Vanuatu who have a creation myth that involves their first queen leaving across the ocean to marry a god. So when the British turned up and told them about queen Elizabeth the 2nd they decided that prince Phillip must be god.
Ah the cargo cults! Such a fascinating phenomenon!
Metal ain't no Coke bottle, though.
The Gods must be crazy...
Dang it I and my middle school friends saw that advertised in the theaters and thought it looked good. Went to see it as 12 year olds and was fairly bored with it but it did have some comical relief at times. As an adult I appreciate that picture much more.
Everyone knows if you find a Coke bottle you have to take an adventure to the end of the world to throw it off.
The Sentinelese cold-forge iron to make arrowheads. And they are familiar with outsiders. All they would need to do is hold out their hands, stop killing those who try to contact them, and their lives would be easier. Or would they?
My guess is that they have seen what has happened to tribes that accepted the "blessings of civilization": disease, enslavement, loss of their traditional way of life. And they want none of it. They'll accept gifts, but only on their own terms. They're fighting for their independence. And the Indian government patrols stay at arm's length, keeping away those who would exploit the Sentinelese.
They have personal experience with what the ‘blessings of civilization’ means, the first time an outsiders made contact with the tribe 6 of them (two elderly people and 4 children) were kidnapped. All 6 of them fell ill and died.
I don’t think contact with outsiders is possible for them, their immune systems can’t handle modern diseases and sickness. There’s a good chance somebody spreading a cold to them could wipe out the entire tribe.
Also, some North Sentinel Islanders were once kidnapped, back in the colonial period, only for them to die because of disease. They probably have oral histories dating far far back so I would imagine "that time outsiders literally took some of us away never to be seen again" is a major part of their worldview.
And well, if anyone knows what it's like to have your culture and land tarnished by an outside force, it's India lol
That's actually probably what happened. Back in the 19th century some British guy basically kidnapped 4 of them and took them to Port Blair, they all got sick, 2 died, and he returned the other two. Who knows what effect those diseases had on the population
Couldn't have been good.
Flying up unto space past the huge dust clouds, seeing all of the stars and thinking "it'll have to go"
It’s just not Krikkit
This make twice this week I've had someone reply to one of my comments with a really obscure hitchhikers guide reference from one of the later books. I'm going to have to reread it all to make sure I'm not missing any I might have forgot.
Twice is kinda awesome though
/r/unexpectedhitchhiker
I just wanted a documentary about them today, which also claimed that the scrap metal “thrust them into the Iron Age”. No it didn’t. Making tools out of found metal does not equal being in the Iron Age. The Iron Age was when people figured out how to use raw iron to make tools. They have no iron ore, and if they did they wouldn’t know how to turn it into tools.
12 months later, the first sentinelese nuclear powered battleship enters international waters
The big thing with entering the iron age is being able to create usable iron. The finding and mining of ore, the refining and smelting, and finally the manipulation into something usable.
Tying something you found on the ground to a stick is still primitive, even if the thing they found is iron.
Agreed. There’s little difference between tying the iron onto the stick and an extremely sharp rock that has the same properties as iron.
The Inuit had a mini iron age when a iron rich metorite impacted in their region. Similar events for indigenous peoples in remote areas as ships or other salvage has given them resources they otherwise wouldnt have access to.
Huge difference between using scrap metal and forging iron into steel and shaping it.
The workers violated the Prime Directive.
They're in good company then lol
Exactly. All the workers were keen to 'touch the Sentinelese' but I wonder if they were simultaneously introducing the natives to diseases previously unknown to them.
The iron age refered to the ability to forge iron into a useful way by refining it. Previous to that there were isolated instances of using iron from meteorites that didn't require purification, even then they weren't able to melt them, only soften them up and hammer them into useful shapes.
Not really.
There's a difference between a "cargo cult" and actually developing your technology.
Absent access to things like coal, iron ore, copper, tin, and the like...they're not developing metallurgy or anything. They're just using scrap iron like a harder version of stone tools.
We have broken the Prime Directive.
Bring out the nighttime drone show making a giant gods face screaming crying blood 🩸
Why is this sky person menstruating from their eyes?? Oh well.
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"Ladies and gentleman, it's your friend Mike Brady from Ocean Liner Designs."
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Ah yes, the utopia with no corporations and no landlords.
If you think tribes have no social problems you don't know much about tribes.
Maybe one guy picked all the coconuts?
A century before and they were going to canoe their way into slavery.
CaptainJZH OP t1_j64gy5i wrote
And this might just be my speculation, but I wonder if they recognized that they and the workers were both there for the same thing, and kinda respected them on that level. Like, "oh you're just here for the scrap metal. Cool, us too."