How much did it cost you to run power to your build per foot/yard? Green Mountain Power

Submitted by Elegant_Schedule1566 t3_zl38ys in vermont

I am expecting a huge cost estimate for running power up a hill about 500 yards to a future homesite. I don’t know the details of what all will be needed to do this and would much rather just have a solar array and generator, but that presents lending issues on build loans so I’ll likely have to tie into the grid. Would love some ideas of what to expect (and yes I’ll contact GMP also but would love to hear from those with personal experience in doing this)

14

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

anothervtcouple t1_j04cc9r wrote

Gmp is currently around $23/ft for underground installs. That includes primary cable cost, transformer cost and them hooking it up. That does not include the cost for having someone dig the trench and lay the conduit (gmp does not do that). You will also need an electrician to run the secondary cables from the pad mounted transformer to your home site. Not sure what the current price for installing poles is. Off grid solar is probably going to be a bit more expensive but then you don’t have to pay an electric bill. Roughly $4-4.50/watt. Electrician/owner of solar company here.

43

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j04e51o wrote

This is great info. Thank you!

3

arh3 t1_j05goln wrote

I ran fiber to my house recently and the set of costs were similar. I live in a wooded area with lots of ledge, and my house is a bit of a distance from the road, so digging the trench was BY FAR my biggest expense.

3

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j05hcwv wrote

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I’m not a native Vermonter - what does “lots of ledge” mean?

1

arh3 t1_j05hmex wrote

Rock formations that can't really be removed... but are often buried so your guy with the excavator is digging 10 ft at a time hoping for the best lol. I'm up on a mountain.

3

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j05i50b wrote

Ah gotcha, yeah we’d likely have the same issue as we’d be on a mountain also. Did he just have to route around the formations then or idk if they can use a rock breaker to get through those. If he had to route around, did that make a noticeable difference in the amount of cable you had to run?

1

arh3 t1_j05if4s wrote

He worked around it, which extended the timeline a bit. I don't think it made a material difference in distance.. But he also had to clear a road through the woods so the excavator can fit in the first place. It ended up being a large, two week project just to get the trench and conduit in place.

5

Legitimate-Future255 t1_j06ounr wrote

What does something like this cost roughly if you don’t mind me asking?

2

arh3 t1_j1zzkf7 wrote

Apologies for the delay. IIRC it was about $13k... comprised of labor, machinery, and the conduit itself.

1

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j05h7u3 wrote

At what depth does the conduit/trenched cables need to be? I think someone gave me a link to a handbook below but figured I’d ask in case you knew off the top of your head. We’d probably do this part ourselves.

1

Willie_the_Wombat t1_j05s17q wrote

Most utility providers will require their primary conduits to have 36” of cover. If it’s not practical to achieve that depth, you could potentially work out a contingency with concrete encasement.

Edit: “primary” meaning from the last utility pole to the transformer location. From the transformer to the meter location and/or entrance of the structure is considered the “secondary”. In most cases secondary conduit will require 18-24” of cover, depending on material and use.

5

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j0626xh wrote

Awesome, thanks so much for the info. Do you know anything about crossing small streams with cable? I get that water and electrical doesn’t mix, but considering there’s so much water in VT I’m wondering if anyone’s figured out how to make crossing a small stream feasible with underground conduit, like placing it over or below a culvert or bridge or something, or if that scenario will always require overhead lines whether related to permitting or code.

2

Loosh_03062 t1_j06g3n9 wrote

Crossing the streams? Forget calling the Ghostbusters, you'll be talking to the Agency of Natural Resources. They can be persnickety at times.

5

happyonthehill802 t1_j06ie9m wrote

Chances of legally touching a stream with a piece of equipment are not good.

5

[deleted] t1_j06jkn8 wrote

[deleted]

2

Legitimate-Future255 t1_j06onqf wrote

What they are trying to say here is the agency of natural resources in Vermont is VERY strict about any work done near water, on public or private land and the red tape/permitting/cost of trying to “touch” the stream will far outweigh the cost of going overhead instead

3

Willie_the_Wombat t1_j06tqu2 wrote

That really depends on what you mean when you say “stream”. If it’s small enough that your driveway would cross it using a culvert, you would just continue the conduit underneath. If it’s big enough to require a bridge for the driveway, you’d probably surface the conduit on both sides and attach to the bridge.

As for the state getting involved, I believe that depends on the size of the watershed being collected. But I don’t know the exact regulations, or dimensions.

2

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j06uroj wrote

Oh that totally makes sense, I didn’t think of it running along a bridge - have you seen that done before or done it? Either scenarios are possible options in my run, so that’s at least a good starting place to look into doing. Thanks so much for the helpful info.

1

Willie_the_Wombat t1_j06wu6f wrote

Yes, back when I was an apprentice. We attached conduit to the bottom of a covered bridge at a winery.

You (or your contractor) will be responsible for installation of the primary conduit run in whatever path it takes. But your utility (GMP or others) will design that installation for you. Primary (before the final transformer) is outside the jurisdiction of the NEC and local inspectors if applicable. The utility will specify what conduit(s), cover, attachments, etc… for you depending on the particulars of your project.

2

KittenLOVER999 t1_j06t8qy wrote

Also make sure you use the right diameter…at least at the pole, not going to suggest or say I’ve stepped down to smaller under ground…but hey it’s buried only you will know

2

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j06udoc wrote

You mean diameter of conduit? What are typical, appropriate diameters?

1

happyonthehill802 t1_j06z9ej wrote

Conduit size depends on wire guage. Wire guage depends on run length and amperage required.

I personally wouldnt skimp on conduit size...infact on smaller runs i often upsize. You'll thank yourself if you ever need to replace/upgrade the cable.

4

KittenLOVER999 t1_j073zwe wrote

Not sure if it depends on your provider as well or not but Comcast is 4 inch (completely unnecessary IMO), Washington electric was also 4 inch

2

jaylaxel t1_j07ehh8 wrote

GMP doesn't want to deal with anything less than 4", but other comms routinely use 2" for cable or fiber, and yes, they are supposed to be separate conduits (for commercial work at least)

3

timberwolf0122 t1_j04r377 wrote

I’ll chain together and run any number of lowes economy extension cords to get you connected for $199.99 + beers

21

JimTheJerseyGuy t1_j04xraw wrote

On the plus side, if you loop the extension cords back and forth across the driveway, you’ve got a free snowmelt system!

13

ripiss t1_j05aemw wrote

This is huge boys, get on this

5

Hillman314 t1_j06qk79 wrote

Don’t jump too soon, bud…his beers will set you back about $8K. We’re talking the Vermont good stuff.

2

Nutmegdog1959 t1_j032939 wrote

You're looking at $50-75k. If you're near a service pole with a transformer, and you buy and install your own service poles that are to GMP spec, you might be able to save. But either way it ain't cheap.

18

TrumpImpeachedAugust t1_j03nout wrote

The cost of running power from the grid to your home site is possibly more than it would cost to install off-grid solar infrastructure for a normal household. Especially with the 30% tax credit.

Take a look at your energy consumption and see if this is an option.

7

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j0488hl wrote

I think I mentioned this originally as well, but the point is that I need to meet build loan lending requirements. Banks typically don’t fund off grid mortgages, it’s fairly rare.

8

Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_j0661np wrote

Ya that can be rough often they will make you take an ARM been there done that ugh.

2

8valvegrowl t1_j03a1l6 wrote

I seem to recall I paid about 9-10K for 100 yards from utility pole to meter/house site with trenching and a comm conduit installed simultaneously (which was good, because Comcast came up my road a year later and I already had the conduit to the pole). This was in 2019.

So, at least 5X my cost is probably ballpark, especially if you have to use poles for some/all of the span.

6

1DollarOr1Million t1_j03lo76 wrote

Running coax cable and/or fiber at the same time is so clutch if one can afford it. Saves trenching twice.

8

Abbot_of_Cucany t1_j0k2lp6 wrote

Absolutely. If you're paying to dig a trench anyway, the extra cost for a 2" conduit is pretty small. And run a pull-string (or 2) through the conduit so that when it's time to install the fiber, it can just be pulled through. The same conduit can be used for fiber, phone, coax, or other low-voltage services as long as it's big enough.

1

ainttheolddays t1_j04ft6t wrote

This is Vermont Utilities Electric Service Requirements Manual that every Electric company in the state adopted. It was very useful in our build and will shed light on service options you’ll have on a run at 500yds. Five football fields is 1500 feet of power cable, minimum. $$$$$.00. Good luck and pm me if you have other questions.

https://greenmountainpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/VT-Utilities-Electric-Service-Requirements-Manual.pdf

5

kevinhcraig t1_j06wqgh wrote

I cannot answer OP's question but I was looking to do a project recently and a stick of conduit that was $15 2 years ago is $90 now :|

5

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j06wxph wrote

Baha. Insane.

1

Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_j071k2f wrote

Hate to say it but that's correct and you would be looking at about 11grand in conduit. Just spitballing but as it's plastic I assume it's tied to oil price. Maybe hold off and see if the recession predictions are true. Either way GMP would let you know what size they require and maybe you could beg them to allow 2 inch which is around 30 bucks. Most often though they want 3 inch for that and that is sitting around 70 bucks right now. Ya insane for sure

2

kevinhcraig t1_j074j59 wrote

The price MUST come down at some point in the next year or so. I cannot imagine it stays at 5k permanently. Lord I hope it comes down. I just can't imagine building a house or doing a large project right now but so many are doing it somehow.

1

OakBelly t1_j06z9x0 wrote

Tl;dr $155k to get power and a second 3” conduit (for comm.) 2,250 ft. underground. Here’s the breakdown of a project from this past summer. GMP charged $42k to go 2250’ underground. $12k of that was for cost sharing because this was an extension to an existing underground line. There were 4 peds and one 25kva transformer. Another company was hired to trench and install two 3” conduits the entire 2250’ length. That was about $98k of which $39k was conduit @ $8/ft. A 3rd company was paid about $15k to blast 200’ of ledge for the trench.

4

tom_echo t1_j0hgkdx wrote

Wow, why not just go above ground at that point?

1

8valvegrowl t1_j0i7p8y wrote

Expensive, to be sure, but running above ground has it's own risks and future costs, it's a gamble. And if you can afford to bury it correctly, then bury.

3

Vermonter623 t1_j07gt2k wrote

It cost my friend about 17 k to do about the same distance recently

4

o08 t1_j03d6ja wrote

8k for three poles and the line to go 650 ft 10 years ago.

3

SomeConstructionGuy t1_j03m2l3 wrote

The total cost depends on so many things. Call gmp and get an estimate.

If there is a pole on your property or at road bury conduit for primaries yourself and locate the transformer 300’ out from the house. Biggest expense will be conduit but it’ll be comparable to paying gmp for overhead. Rent a mini and put the conduit 40” down and you’re good.

3

mountainofclay t1_j03g12i wrote

Look into buying poles from the phone company. I can’t remember how we did it way back when we put ours in but I think we contracted the pole through the phone company. We went underground for the last 150 feet which also saved some money. Back then there was hardly any fiber optic so I’ll probably wish I had that too.

2

df33702021 t1_j045ux8 wrote

Does running power have any influence over your internet connection? That would be key. Otherwise, if you are in $50-$70k range as some people indicate, you can get yourself a nice LiFePo4 based off grid setup for less or same depending on how big you go.

2

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j047yyd wrote

It’s about lending requirements rather than what would be nice to have, I’d love to go off grid but then it’s harder to get a build loan funded

2

Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_j0664ia wrote

Local banks can be better for this stuff like Union etc. I would guess you have tried all the options though.

1

ripiss t1_j05aloi wrote

The further you are, the bigger the cable, this won’t be cheap at all. Not knowing what you need for amps I can’t tell you but 500 yards is a long way and you are gonna have bigger conductors to get it there

1

Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_j0668xj wrote

That's why you run the primary close to the house site. Secondary cable is the big stuff. Primary is like 18k volts or such can go quite a long ways like miles without voltage drop.

3

insideoriginal t1_j06wbgu wrote

Just out of curiosity, and maybe this is a dumb question… but. Could you have a meter installed on a post near the road, like 20’ off or something. Then run some temporary lines from the meter to the job site, just to feed power for construction, until you can get your solar setup?

Just a thought, but maybe it’s not realistic.

1

Elegant_Schedule1566 OP t1_j06wm4z wrote

The reason I need to tie into the grid is that I need a build loan to begin construction unless I would be paying in cash - lenders who fund off-grid construction loans are few and far between.

1

insideoriginal t1_j06xje7 wrote

So what is the definition of tying to the grid? Do you just need a meter on the property to be considered tied in? Does it have to be on your house? Does it have to be connected to a panel? Does the panel have to be in your house?

I’d try to find the MOST simple way to satisfy their requirements without spending $20k unnecessarily if you are planning on setting up a solar array anyhow.

Wouldn’t it be cool to buy a Ford lightning, charge it up at the meter by the street, then drive it up to the job site and use it to power your build.

I used to work for a contractor, and one of my best friends is a contractor. They do all kinds of shit that makes you scratch your head, because it’s a super cheap way to fulfill some nonsense silly code requirement.

0

2q_x t1_j040kyb wrote

Can I suggest a four-pronged approach?

Get your lender to communicate their "issues" with your off-grid home in writing.

Forward that to their underwriter duopoly―and the state AG. Take them to civil court, after you find another lender. Use the money to get a nice 12kw setup.

EDIT:

The government wants people to invest in energy, as public policy.

The government setup monopolies to buy and guarantee OP's mortgage.

There is no hard requirement in the underwriting guidelines of the Fannies to have electricity whatsoever.

OP would rather have free power than drop $50k on ugly poles and wires, and then have a power bill.

The lender is going to blame underwriters, but they won't cite being off-grid as a reason that they rejected the loan.

The lender is diverging from the underwriter requirements, government policy, the demands of the market and easily obtainable state of the practice technology.

The lender is the problem, not the poles.

−5

whaletacochamp t1_j0473o3 wrote

Sick dude

1

2q_x t1_j04ck53 wrote

The lender won't put open lending discrimination in writing.

But there are lenders in VT who can follow guidelines from the underwriters. They will finance the construction of a home that has electricity commentate with other homes in the area.

−2

[deleted] t1_j04ewri wrote

[deleted]

3

2q_x t1_j04hg3y wrote

I "wonked-out" hard for a day in 2020 to compose a nasty email. It was a successful day, but not for that lender.

Check the local credit union that has a page devoted to green loans.

0