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AllahAndJesusGaySex t1_j1zaf2y wrote

I think the real news here is that Russia had an LGBTQ+ museum at all.

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maxinator80 t1_j1zz6ub wrote

It has always been dangerous, with target attacks and even murders, but there has always been a community in the more modern cities.

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AllahAndJesusGaySex t1_j20r7fi wrote

Oh yeah. There is always a community where ever there are people. But, I know how horrible the LGBTQ+ community has been treated there. So, it just amazes me that there was really anything allowed publicly that showed they exist.

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MasterBot98 t1_j20y6em wrote

Krasovsky,the dude who talked about drowning Ukrainian babies was one of the first gays to publicly come out in times when Russia was pretty conservative(in that regard anyway) even in the big cities,and obv in the media. Also, before talking about drowning Ukrainian children he talked about similar stuff about Ukrainians in general, which got no big reaction from his audience.

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elifodep t1_j24926g wrote

Moscow, and probably St.Petersburg (where this museum was) is not typical Russia. They have some money

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Isthisworking2000 t1_j22jkcm wrote

I mean, Holocaust museums exist. They should always remember the things Russia has done to them.

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Pottymouthoftheyear t1_j1yqd2f wrote

The man needs to go back to having cancer.

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sephelutis t1_j1zfwll wrote

How much suffering can be avoided if just one man kicks the bucket

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Thatsidechara_ter t1_j215ynf wrote

He'd probably just getting replaced by someone doing the exact same shit. Russia will always be the same until the Russian culture, which isn't likely any time soon.

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Koss424 t1_j22d0q3 wrote

careful what you wish for. Russia in a power vacuum doesn't usually lead to more moderate leaders.

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ThereIsNoGame t1_j1yzgzh wrote

Minor correction sorry, you got it the wrong way around, cancer has Putin.

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TRIBETWELVE t1_j1yun2j wrote

Just a friendly reminder that the first book burnings in Nazi Germany were of an institution that led the way in LGBTQIA+ research, specifically Trans research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft

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die_a_third_death t1_j1yxujx wrote

Yup. It really set LGBT rights in Germany back several decades.

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ThereIsNoGame t1_j1yzrb0 wrote

There's this permanent fixture now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_Homosexuals_Persecuted_Under_Nazism

I think this, right in the middle of Berlin, is fitting and appropriate.

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Creepy-Explanation91 t1_j1zuvg1 wrote

It’s a giant concrete cube with a tiny screen of two dudes kissing inside? Not a very creative or artistic design is it? Wouldn’t a big statue of two guys kissing both send a better message and be more artistically pleasing? Is there a specific reason for it being just a giant cube? It’s a very important monument since gay men were heavily persecuted by the Nazis but the article doesn’t give much information and I have a-lot of questions about why the design was chosen.

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ThereIsNoGame t1_j1zz0nb wrote

I'm not an art critic, but my understanding this is in parallel with the memorial to the murdered jews of europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_the_Murdered_Jews_of_Europe

As the maze of blocks represents the fear, confusion and directionlessness of the jews in that dark time, so too does the concrete cube, and it's unassuming exterior, represents the way the gender diverse had to hide their identity, remain closeted, to avoid persecution. Only by getting close, can you see who they really were.

Art is most powerful when it's subtle. Art should not tell a story to the audience, but instead guide the audience in the direction of the conclusions they should make. It's not there to answer questions, but ask questions and challenge the audience to understand the answers.

Why have Mount Rushmore when you could just put up a big sign that says "Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt and Lincoln were all good presidents."?

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burgermiester288 t1_j20nbdi wrote

It's meant to reflect how queer men had to hide their love. Like your coming across something you shouldn't see.

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apple_kicks t1_j1yywni wrote

In some cases esp in nazi occupied areas that previously saw more of a strong lgbt scene (Paris and Amsterdam) took til 60s or 2010s to get rights back on track

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MBH1800 t1_j20nqu5 wrote

Worst thing I read about the holocaust was that when the camps were liberated, most inmates still alive were released and sent to hospital care - except the homosexuals, who were transferred to prisons to serve out their "sentence". It was still illegal under the new government as well.

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Johannes_P t1_j20wo0e wrote

Moreover, the time spent in KZ wasn't treated as prison, meaning they were kept even longer than their initial sentence.

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MBH1800 t1_j2146r1 wrote

Jesus Fucking Christ, that's horrible.

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Johannes_P t1_j20wk4l wrote

Yep, the Nazi era aggravation of the paragraph 175 was retained after 1945 and until the end.

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chatte__lunatique t1_j21s69h wrote

Not just in Germany, across the world. Hirschfeld's work was groundbreaking, and the loss of his research and treatment documentation was so devastating to queer and especially trans healthcare, that it's not an exaggeration to compare it to the loss of the Library of Alexandria.

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WikiSummarizerBot t1_j1yuofq wrote

Institut für Sexualwissenschaft

>The Institut für Sexualwissenschaft was an early private sexology research institute in Germany from 1919 to 1933. The name is variously translated as Institute of Sex Research, Institute of Sexology, Institute for Sexology or Institute for the Science of Sexuality. The Institute was a non-profit foundation situated in Tiergarten, Berlin. It was the first sexology research center in the world.

^([ )^(F.A.Q)^( | )^(Opt Out)^( | )^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)^( | )^(GitHub)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)

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Ksnj t1_j20u6e3 wrote

Maaaaaaan, every time I see this, it makes me so fucking upset. As a trans person myself, not being able to be myself for over 3 decades, due mostly to lack of information/representation, has caused catastrophic damage. What would trans lives look like if the Nazis (current iteration included) were not around? Our mental/physical health be so much better……so many lives could have been saved.

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chatte__lunatique t1_j21q37t wrote

Yeah it's super depressing. We lost so much knowledge because of the Nazis, knowledge that could have saved countless trans and queer lives. And that's not even getting into how many queer people the Nazis — followed by the Allies who let us continue to rot in the camps — murdered directly.

I wonder what my childhood might've been like if that knowledge hadn't been burnt to the ground, and had instead become widespread...

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postsshortcomments t1_j1y7xvq wrote

Now they're at the 'taking it out on their spouse because they lost the mortgage payment on blackjack' stage.

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Express_Opposite t1_j1yccy8 wrote

Yikes. Kristallnacht next?

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Thue t1_j1yxs01 wrote

Jews are somehow always among the first to be persecuted. Some Jews are already leaving for that reason. The Chief Rabbi of Moscow does not dare return to Russia until the situation changes.

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burgermiester288 t1_j1yzxcb wrote

Jews see the gays being persecuted and know they're next, they know when to leave

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[deleted] t1_j1yzxbe wrote

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Thue t1_j1z6kok wrote

The NAZI stab in the back propaganda against Jews contained arguments like Jews controlling society etc.. Russia will almost certainly make their own stab-in-the-back retcon if they lose, to avoid the blame going to leaders like Putin. Highly placed Jews are absolutely not safe, in fact they will make excellent scapegoats, and Jewish oligarch wealth will be free money when confiscated.

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Express_Opposite t1_j1z7jw1 wrote

Wow dude

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RevolutionaryCreme35 t1_j1z8b05 wrote

I think some people took it the wrong way, but I was just stating the facts. Main propagandist Soloviev is Jewish, I can't really see him being targeted. They'll just blame the partisans and "foreign agents".

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nachoolo t1_j1z840x wrote

I suppose that they will use their long knives before going for the Jews as a whole...

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1yflvz wrote

Germany legalized gay marriage since the end of 2017.
Using German powerwords doesn't make you tough.

Russia just needs more time to also modernise.

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Express_Opposite t1_j1yinpp wrote

Might be time to call a bondulance, mate, you’re being incoherent.

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dar_uniya t1_j1ymw6g wrote

go back to russia then

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1yo83r wrote

Please do tell me where I said that I agree with Russia.

I'll wait, but not too long. Good luck.

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dar_uniya t1_j1zg3ri wrote

you didn’t shit on them. that’s the tell. enjoy winter.

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zj3yk wrote

So I just need to wish death to millions of innocent people and that would make you happy?

And why exactly do you think I would do that?

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dar_uniya t1_j1zjs20 wrote

shitting on russia is not wishing death.

taking “shitting” and equating it with genocide is something they advocate to their fans to do.

go back to russia.

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zk68i wrote

I already decided that you are a shit person. So I won't try again.
Let me mute you since all you do is troll.

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zeagnorm t1_j1yt69l wrote

At this point it's gonna take them another however fucking long to modernize with how much they've fucked over their entire country

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1ytlp6 wrote

It starts with the people themselves rising up against the government.

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die_a_third_death t1_j1yweu9 wrote

>Russia just needs more time to also modernise

Nobody got patience for that anymore. Hurry up or you'll be left behind.

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1ywmgm wrote

Like I said, get off your high horse and stop pretending like you are a saint of some sort. Your country only recently invented LGBTQ rights.

Don't trot around like it always been like that. It's cringe.

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die_a_third_death t1_j1ywv7z wrote

>Your country only recently invented LGBTQ rights

Is the 70s considered recent in your dictionary? Also if you think the LGBT rights movement simply ends with the legalization of same-sex marriage then you're pretty ignorant.

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PromiscuousMNcpl t1_j1yxn6g wrote

If Russia needs more time to modernize then why is it going backwards?

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burgermiester288 t1_j1yzscg wrote

Russia is actively homophobic, they support Chechnya puting queer men in death camps, they aren't "modernizing"

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NoelBlack14 t1_j1z3fww wrote

Hello, German here, So non German historians aren’t allowed to use the word Panzer? Or in this matter: are you defending Nazi Germany???

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zja6y wrote

Using German powerwords doesn't make you tough.

try again.

And how exactly am I defending Nazi's? Why are people making shit up? Does it make you feel better to just claim things I never said?

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Sbeast t1_j1yo4al wrote

So aside from invading their neighbour, and committing 50,000 alleged war crimes, they're also persecuting LGBT people in Russia itself.

If only it were possible to just say or do something that made people come to their senses, and become far better people, but I guess it doesn't always work like that.

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[deleted] t1_j1yvni2 wrote

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Krivvan t1_j1ywfh0 wrote

I'm assuming you're trying to refer to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes

Where violent clashes resulted in both sides of a protest throwing molotovs at each other, with at least one starting a fire.

Wording it the way you did makes it sound like a group just rounded some innocent people up into a building and set it on fire and leaves out the very contextually important violent clashes.

>This rally was later attacked by an anti-Maidan mob of 300 from the group Odesskaya Druzhina armed with bats and firearms at Hretska Street.

>Following the attack on the pro-Maidan rally, numerous fights broke out. Both sides fought running battles against one other, exchanging stones and petrol bombs, and built barricades throughout the city during the afternoon.

>According to OHCHR both sides had various kinds of helmets, masks, shields, axes, wooden or metal sticks, and firearms. According to OmTV there were mostly air pistols and the first actual firearms use was by Antimaidan activist Vitaly Budko ("Botsman") who opened fire with an AK-74 rifle using 5.45 bullets.

>While defending the building, militants on the roof tossed rocks and petrol bombs at the protesters below. BBC News said that the situation was unclear, with multiple sources indicating that both sides had been throwing petrol bombs at each other.

Calling it "a house" makes me think you literally didn't even know the first thing about this incident and just heard the name "Trade Union House fire."

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goodplayer111 t1_j1yxvtg wrote

Yeah. Point is, what russia says that there is a big nazi problem in ukraine is true. But no one cares that russians in ukraine are being harrased because ukraine is at war with russia and "russians are always the bad guys"

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Krivvan t1_j1yyiey wrote

You just pivoted from "evil Ukrainians are executing Russians" to "Russians are being harassed."

But even if we pretend and take you at your word 100%, does that somehow justify an invasion, attempted annexation of territory, and persecution of LGBT people within Russia? That's on the same level as "Russians are being harassed?" An invasion of a country with a native Russian-speaking President that opposed the very language laws you'll say are the source of the harassment? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-parliament-language-idUSKCN1S111N

Do you support the invasion of any country with ultranationalists in it? Because I can name a few.

Hey, LGBT people are being harassed in Russia. Does that give everyone the clear to invade Russia and seize territory?

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P00TiZ t1_j1yyyb4 wrote

Russians in Ukraine are only harassed when they openly support invasion. Literally no one gives a fuck if you are russian and love putin as long as you keep your mouth shut. And yes, russians ARE bad guys, you act just like nazi Germany, what did you expect?

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Thatsidechara_ter t1_j216j94 wrote

I wouldn't go so far as calling all Russians bad, although I digress it does seem that there's a fairly pronounced homophobic culture in Russia itself

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burgermiester288 t1_j1z0hur wrote

No there isn't. For f""ks sake thier prez is Jewish. No one's harassing ethnic Russians, that's Russia propaganda (and it's really a recycled version of the propaganda Nazis used to justify invading Poland. I'm queer and the Russians are the bad guys here

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Spyt1me t1_j1zlg6j wrote

Big nazi problem is when 2/3rd of a country elects a jew who's grandfather died fighting against nazies lmao.

Your arguments are completely unfounded.

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MasterBot98 t1_j216f9s wrote

Harassing Russians in mass in Ukraine is practically impossible cos we are so alike. As other said,the only way to see the Russians among Ukrainians is generally when they are exceptionally patriotic. Which by general Russian logic would make them nazis, cos their logic sees no difference between patriotism/nationalism/nazism. And then the well known “Russians cannot be nazis” comes in, which is ironically a statement of superiority, which proves that,again, such Russians have no clue what actual Nazism is, and that they have this problem at scale.

"cares that russians in ukraine are being harrased"

What kind of Russians? The ultrapatriotic ones? My first paragraph should tell you enough on my stance on them. And about the others, we treat them like we treat Ukrainians, cos we don't give a fuck (ok that might get worse a bit cos of war but oh well). The only actor who has an actual tendency to harras/disregard/unjustly persecute/outright kill for political reasons Russians is Russian govt and your own ultrapatriots. And when you command "attack" to your "ultrapatriots" and outright Nazis to attack on Ukraine,ofc you will get results like Bucha, it is expected, really.

The only real big differences between Russian nazism and German one-

  1. You figured out that calling everyone else a Nazi works wonders.

2.And you traded racial superiority for a kind of cultural one. That's it, that's how short the list is,everything else like hate on the pacifists, secret police, superiority complex(even if a slightly different one), intense propaganda and everything else is exactly the same. If you want links, just say to what and I will find them.

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rabobar t1_j1zfm5e wrote

Stay out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat

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lordofedging81 t1_j206ryq wrote

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Also, this is one incident.

1is a smaller number than 50,000.

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Sbeast t1_j20igo6 wrote

I only know a little about the events around 2014, but some of it sounded terrible. All atrocities are wrong. I also read some of the war crimes in the current conflict have been committed by Ukraine's Armed Forces too, but on a lesser scale.

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DewyMossEmpire t1_j1zjl51 wrote

I'm amazed they had one to begin with.

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RagingHeretic t1_j1z187f wrote

Ron DeSantis is feverishly taking notes...

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[deleted] t1_j21c79u wrote

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CptDecaf t1_j21n00x wrote

Open bigots like you make more leftists in a day than I ever could in years. Thanks being openly hateful and saying the quiet part out loud.

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heathers1 t1_j1zcu7y wrote

It’s so weird how 34 percent od Republicans feel exactly the way Putin does on similar issues. Hmm wonder how that happened?

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Johannes_P t1_j20wri9 wrote

It might be the reverse: they held such ideas before discovering Putin agreed with them.

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BrownBear109 t1_j21d7si wrote

As their only consistent national identity revolves around being counter to the west, there was actually a period of time where the Soviet Union fell and russia decriminalized homosexuality in 1991, decriminalized homosexual relationships in 1993, and in 1997 allowed transpeople to officially register as the gender which they identified with.

This coincided with the period of time when the US was struggling with gays in the military, the ramifications of the AIDS crisis from the 1980’s, and Focus on the Family was trying to re-criminalize homosexuality in America.

As the west grew stronger, and gay acceptance became a significant part of western identity, russia decided that maybe the gays didn’t need protecting after all

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[deleted] t1_j21cbxn wrote

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heathers1 t1_j21ir5g wrote

Like what?

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[deleted] t1_j21k0vu wrote

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heathers1 t1_j21nofk wrote

Is it though? I know they are advocating against gay rights and i know they wore “ I’d rather be Russian than Democrat”shirts. They are against NATO and the West helping the Ukraine.

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CptDecaf t1_j21n4fr wrote

Except you literally made a post agreeing with Putin lol.

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Stock_Rush2555 t1_j21nh7u wrote

This no doubt coincides with a massive upsurge in Russian captains raping young conscript men to "toughen them up"

Russia is the most closeted nation ever. Have you seen Russian ballet? Have you seen how full they pack their crotch? It would be comedic, if it wasn't against a backdrop of sexual repression and taboo rape

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hypnos_surf t1_j229k8z wrote

Is this weird considering not too long ago the only relevant culture Russia has given the world within the last 20 years was a duo music group that themed themselves on their homosexuality.

Russia loves riding through history on a roller coaster.

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LocustSwarm36 t1_j22hib3 wrote

Love me some Reichstag Fire Decree

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Isthisworking2000 t1_j22jhcm wrote

Seems like the sort of time in Russia to keep your head down and pray.

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nzdennis t1_j21nl36 wrote

Compulsory Burka is next

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aaaanoon t1_j20cngp wrote

Brave owner. Like having an Atheist museum in the states.

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burgermiester288 t1_j20mwdd wrote

Are atheists beaten to death in the streets in the us? Do atheist kids get kicked out of their homes at three times the rate of non atheist kids in the us? Any existent oppression of atheists in the us is not even comparable to queer oppression in the us, let alone russia

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govi96 t1_j1yjhjz wrote

wtf is lgbtq+ museum?

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Neil2250 t1_j1ykpru wrote

general history of how it's evolved publicly, decriminalization and celebrations spurred from that (if applicable), public openness, milestones in media, etc. I assume, anyway.

Similar to suffragette-focused museums in terms of topic areas i reckon.

Edit: It's more constructive to downvote unhelpful answers and upvote the original question to help spread awareness of helpful answers, but whatever.

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Natural-Coffee9711 t1_j1ygalr wrote

As someone from Eastern Europe just wanting to marry his partner: fuck this thinking. “Just wait a couple more years to get your basic rights lol”

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ChrisTchaik t1_j1yn21h wrote

You're building your entire argument around gay marriage when this isn't even about gay marriage. The last time a Western country had a similar law was in the 60s/70s/80s. Bear in mind that the same law has been extended to include adults, which is unheard of in the Western world.

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[deleted] t1_j1yo6ia wrote

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burgermiester288 t1_j1z11ft wrote

Queer person here, you have no clue what you're talking about so shut the hell up

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PfizerGuyzer t1_j1yxf1e wrote

You're pretending that only being given civil partnerships is equivalent to burning down your museums.

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Ask_Me_If_I_Am_Flynn t1_j1yk0qz wrote

People are only on a high horse because people they care about are getting trampled

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[deleted] t1_j1yokip wrote

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Ask_Me_If_I_Am_Flynn t1_j1yp6uz wrote

Yeah and why is Russia 50 years behind hmm? You're a fucking human paraquat

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[deleted] t1_j1ypo97 wrote

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burgermiester288 t1_j1z1hfe wrote

Religion and their own bigotry is holding them back, this crap is popular with Russians. Russia has always been a homophobic hell hole. The Russians started their war and choose their own death

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zjm2m wrote

You should try to find "open minded" people in any remote area where the only information source is some guy on TV.

Most Russians have no idea what's going on. They just get the news that Russia is at war with Ukraine.

There's no why and how. And they can't fact check anything.

Maybe just watch older videos of Bald and Bankrupt to see what real Russia is like, and how isolated they are.

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burgermiester288 t1_j1zjw9o wrote

Thier information source is the government, and the church, hence the homophobia

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zlbqy wrote

Yeah religion is a 2000 year old backwards ideology that has been altered countless of times to appease the church.

Correct, now try and change people into believing that their entire life is a lie and that it's all wrong.

That's going to be difficult.

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burgermiester288 t1_j1z1and wrote

Nah, not every country was supporting states that put us in death camps. You don't care about queer folk, you care about how much you get paid.

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zjq6c wrote

I care about human rights.

That means all humans, not just the ones you like.

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burgermiester288 t1_j1zk53r wrote

Than why are you treating a government that supports chechyians putting queer men in death camps with kid gloves

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ZhouDa t1_j1ypjhe wrote

Russia is some two hundred years behind when it comes to freedom of speech. This isn't solely about gay rights, but also the fact that discussing the subject gets you thrown in jail.

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[deleted] t1_j1ypv37 wrote

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Defiant__Idea t1_j1yqu0a wrote

You clearly know nothing about Russia and its history.

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User24602 t1_j1zjdco wrote

I see weird takes like this enough that I think these guys are either bored Republicans looking for fights or Russian agents looking for a disinformation messaging angle that works. I'm sure it's a mix of both.

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burgermiester288 t1_j1z136c wrote

This is about queer rights, not free speech, and cops are pos

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zjzi4 wrote

I haven't run into a single cop in my life that is a bad cop.
Try again bigot.

Free speech and freedom to be gay are very VERY closely related.
Russia doesn't allow either of them.

They should, but they don't. Not yet anyway

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burgermiester288 t1_j1zkupq wrote

Every cop I've met is absolute trash and the police have a history of abusing queer folk. Russians actively oppress queer folks and are oppressing us worse everyday

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zl2mv wrote

And there you go. Your personal experience of dealing with cops reflects the entire world.

Great job on setting an example.

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Sniffy4 t1_j1yg9e9 wrote

Maybe, but change doesnt come without fighting for it, ever.

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burgermiester288 t1_j1z0wmm wrote

It's not new and never has been, you dips""t. We queer folks have always existed. They won't come around, they've repeatedly proven this, they are actively getting worse and okay chechnyian "work" camps that queer men are murdered in. You are just a troll, how many rubles do you get paid per comment?

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TrumpetSC2 t1_j20zse0 wrote

Yeah the above poster you replied to is one of those people that are so wrong that even if they were right about the claim, they would still be wrong lol because the entire premise is false.

Like its not like queer ppl have it great in parts of the US now because gay marriage is legal, so how does their comment even make sense on any level lol.

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Spyt1me t1_j1zk2fx wrote

>People should really get off their high horse on LGBTQ rights.It's all new for most countries. And Russia is just walking behind. They'll come around eventually.

Can you tell this in person to a Russian queer who fled their country because of queerphobia? Because i dont think you have the guts to do so.

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zkwpv wrote

I literally said that you need to stop acting all mighty and that Russia will come around getting basic human rights in order eventually.

I'm literally against how Russia treats people, and still you somehow fabricate that I love how it's in Russia right now. You are delusional.

And now you say I wouldn't dare to tell a asylum seeker from Russia that it will be alright in due time and that everything will be fine?

You have no idea how the real world works huh?

Or you simply think that Russian LGBTQ people are just aggressive mindless beasts without the capability top listen such as yourself.

Because that's actually what you said.

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Spyt1me t1_j1zmoj4 wrote

Acting all high and mighty is when we demand basic human rights and equal treatment lmao

You sure talk from a place of privilege where you never had experienced the full might of the state aggressively attacking you and trying to create a deadly culture against you, and never were relentlessly shamed and bullied and forced into hiding.

Shut the fuck up, you are the one talking high and mighty from his high tower made of privilege.

E.: This mf just blocked me because he got offended at me saying shut the fuck up lmao what an absolute privileged snowflake

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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zsxgt wrote

"Shut the fuck up"

Atta boy, that's the spirit I expected from you. Well done.

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