And Jolina’s is arguably even better.

The Blvd is the epicenter of Mediterranean grub in Western PA.

I thought this post was a punchline.

This tracks. Sheetz business model is finding locations off the interstate on the edges of cities/towns.

My hometown used to have one without gas in the middle of town. They closed that decades ago, but now have 3 or 4 on the outskirts, all off I-81 exits. It’s the same here with the I-79 corridor.

There’s clearly not a stat on black fatherhood that is going to force your head out of the sand. Not gonna keep kicking at a moving goal post.

Gonna skip ahead to your last paragraph, because oh boy, you have swallowed the race-reductionist, anti-labor, New Deal revisionism whole-heatedly, haven’t you? Don’t know what to tell you if you don’t think the CIO and the New Deal was beneficial for black wealth and planted the seeds for the Civil Rights movement. You might want to type A. Phillip Randolph into the old search engine as a good starting point.

Yes, those are exactly the statistics to which I'm referring. They show marital and living status but don't actually detail parental involvement or family strength. Do you have stats on that?

Here’s a starter pack for you, but feel free to do your own research if you don’t like what you see: https://fathers.com/the-consequences-of-fatherlessness/

It’s obvious that, even if the majority of the issues that correlate with fatherlessness are economic, then fatherlessness is a serious economic issues that perpetuates cycles of poverty and the associated social problems. The extent to which it’s a problem when controlling for class is in an interesting one, and I’m open to debate on that point.

Do you have any evidence saying that fatherlessness is not a serious problem? Because I haven’t found any that isn’t anecdotal or specious.

I dunno what kind of organizations you belong to or people you associate with but all the leftists I know are working class.

It sounds like you’ve never had the misfortune of being a heretic. I don’t recommend it for everyone, but there is something rather liberating about excommunication.

In the broadest definition, most lefties are working class. But if we’re going to have a serious discussion about modern class structure, then most hyper-active lefties are downwardly mobile PMC at best, or straight up Ivy League brats at worst.

You're cool with letting that racist shit be said because the thing which you find really objectionable is your perception that leftists are nothing but virtue signaling elitists.

Do you think scolding working class people for being concerned about criminal elements fucking up their neighborhoods because there are icky racial dynamics at play, and because they don’t phrase things using the delicate language of the academy, makes the left come off more or less like virtue-signally elitists?

Which doesn't even make a whole lot of sense-- what political side doesn't take a moral high ground and virtue signal and scold those who don't follow it?

The ones that win.

Do you think the average CIO organizer went around chastising steelworkers for their social prejudices? Or do you think they brought a diverse group of working class men together through common struggle, and let that shared material experience and struggle for dignity take the lead in overcoming the bigotry that the bosses tired incite?

Not sure on the mile question, but it takes approx 11.5 laps to work off a night of drinking at Nico’s that ended with a late night Ritters stop.

I think you might need to explain the "decline of the black family". I've heard similar things said but it seems to be based on perceptions rather than reality.

From the book “Of Boys and Men:” “Black mothers are three times as likely as white mothers to be single parents (52% v. 16%) and half as likely to be living with a spouse (41% v. 78%).” That book is, in my opinion, downright cowardly in its failure to address the crime statistics for young black men and primary role that plays in perpetuating anti-black racism, but it does do a good job of explaining the social and financial pressures black women face compared to other “racial” groups.

Honestly, it seems like you're basing all of this off of how you see people respond on social media or in public forums.

Hon, I have 20+ years of experience off and on in left wing political orgs and social circles, and the loudest, most extreme voices on the internet are usually the loudest, most extreme voices in the room. It’s a one circle Venn diagram. Talking about racial issues in a way that is even remotely heterodox (i.e. the way most working class people of all “races” talk about them) is anathema.

Also, I think you might be ignoring the fact that some of those people being called names are actually saying shit that is racist, classist, and ageist. You can sincerely want to protect your neighborhood while doing all those things. In fact, wanting to "protect your neighborhood" can often make one more tribalistic and insular. I think it's important to point out those prejudices when we see them. I think most people are just too deluded or ashamed to see and admit that they harbor those prejudices.

And here you have made my argument better than I ever could have myself! “We must educate the ignorant masses to ignore their lying eyes” and “The scoldings will continue until moral improves;” a perfect encapsulation of the social half of why the left continues to fail to win an effective political majority!

From my experience, most people on the proverbial left have a hard time recognizing the extent to which violent crime is so prevalent amongst young black males, and when they do, the root of the problem is reduced to “systemic racism,” and the solutions are viewed as abstractions like “dismantling white supremacy.” Not to say that historical realities like redlining don’t play a major part in this phenomenon, but racism is. often viewed as a sort of original sin that is to be addressed with repentance, not concrete political change.

When policy is discussed, the conversation tends to shift towards of over-correction of criminal justice mistakes of the past that borders on nihilism and runs counter to what the vast majority of black voters actually support. Attempts to address the class dynamics with a materialist analysis are met with charges of “economic reductionism” and acknowledgement of the cultural aspects, especially the decline of the black family, that while overemphasized by conservatives is still certainly a major factor, is met with outright hostility.

More importantly, as evidenced by this thread, when white “normies,” for lack of a better term, express their concerns about violent black teenagers causing harm to their businesses and the general quality of life of their neighborhoods, they’re met with derision from liberals/leftists and often accused of being straight up fascists for daring to care about the safety of themselves and their neighbors…. And when black normies say the same things, they’re straight up ignored because they’re not going along with the narrative that black people are helpless victims of an oppressive system with no agency.

In general, I think there’s a lot of white guilt that clouds people’s ability to recognize thr social causes that perpetuate racism, that the fear of “ghetto” blacks is based on, to use the parlance of our times, “lived experience.” Which of course is not to say that racism doesn’t unfairly harm the vast majority of black people, including young black men, who are just normal, law-abiding citizens trying to live their lives like everyone else. What it means is that until the complex socio-economic issues that cause the disparity in violent crime amongst young black men (which hurts working black women more than anyone!) are addressed, the social problems caused by that violence will continue to perpetuate racist sentiments, damaging the ability to create the political will through a diverse working class coalition to solve the root of these problems.

I do think there are plenty of serious political thinkers out there who have a good understanding of the problem and possible solutions, ranging from restructuring the welfare state to encourage family building, to delocalizing school funding, to tying industrial policy to vocational training programs in poor areas (both urban and rural) that lost their moorings during deindustrialization. The problem is the discourse is so fraught on the left, that talking outside of the narrow strictures of the culturally ascendent professional-managerial elite is severely frowned upon.

That a greatly disproportionate amount of violent crime and antisocial behavior comes from young black males and there is no one easy answer to why the problem exists or what the solution is.

And because liberals/leftists are afraid to acknowledge this reality, they cede the narrative to conservatives who simplify it to one purely of cultural factors and largely carceral solutions, when what’s needed is a thorough revaluation of social welfare, educational, housing, criminal justice, and industrial policy.

How do people not get that it’s inherently redundant?

How’d you get into a PhD program saying “UPitt?”

The upvotes to this are a sad reminder to never underestimate white liberals capacity for getting more upset over possibly offensive language than violent actions.

People choose the soft bigotry of low expectations over confronting uncomfortable social realities.

“I wonder how much deferred investment there is if they don’t use it much. I don’t know what speed it’s rated for or what it would cost to bring the rails up to speed to be competitive with a busway. Are there any double track sections for passing? Also they would need to budget a place to store and maintain the trains.”

Some track improvements would need done and some sidings added, I’m sure. But the cost of that, the maintenance facility, and buying the DMUs vs paving the whole thing damn ROW? Not even close! And that’s not even factoring the much higher labor costs per rider of operating a busway.

“I wonder how many of the 45,000 New Kensington area work in downtown Pittsburgh.”

Why are you thinking of this as only the people who live in the town of the terminus commuting to Downtown? That would be like viewing the T as a commuter line between South Hills Village and Downtown and ignoring every connection in between. How many people would ride from Verona to Lawrenceville? Or from the Strip to Oakmont? Or take a short bus connector from Penn Hills or the Waterworks? Those are the riders that need to be factored in when considering ridership, along with the big picture of building a transit system where one can get from roughly any point A to any point B in a reasonable amount of time regardless of mode, and rapid transit for the Allegheny Valley is a big missing link.

“The busway option would be more convenient for servicing oakland but slower than the train for downtown. On the other hand 13 miles of busway would probably cost a billion dollars and seems excessive considering it’s not congested or part of the core network.”

Last I read, the plans for the Brilliant Branch are to turn it into a bike path. I doubt Port Authority gets anywhere with it.

“It seems like cities the size of Pittsburgh are getting shut out from the large chunks of funding that go to rail projects. The larger ridership, larger population growth and willingness to raise taxes to match federal funds is a factor in pittsburgh being at a disadvantage to other cities.”

All the more reason to go with the most cost-effective form of rapid transit!

I’m guessing there’s been some thoughts about AVRR selling the ROW since they’re considering a busway. But either way, that fact that they’re even considering it is indicative of their long standing bias towards busways. Which I largely am fine with when busways make sense, but it’s baffling in this case.

Yes, the FRA grants waivers for lightweight DMUs on active freight lines, but typically only when the freight lines are only used at specific times, like overnight service. NJ Transit runs such a line from Camden to Trenton, which is technically classified as light rail like the Sprinter line in CA that you mentioned. This line in Denton, TX was the first to get such a waiver, according to Wikipedia, though I believe there was a later Obama era relaxing of waiver standards for lighter passenger rail rolling stock: https://web.archive.org/web/20120609012338/http://www.dentonrc.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20120605-dcta-gets-go-ahead-to-use-stadler-cars.ece

There are several lines that use heavy duty DMUs, and I think one iteration of the old PAT train used the old Budd cars. But I think if PRT decides to go with rail for the AVRR line, they should be able to classify it as “light rail” like the Sprinter and NJ River lines (since it only runs freight overnight) and go with the cheaper, lighter DMUs.

Considering what a mess the original West Busway project was and how badly they’ve bungled the Oakland “BRT” project, color me skeptical that the West Busway is going to get finished anytime soon in either direction. Though I do hope they make connecting it to Downtown a high priority, which shouldn’t be that expensive provided they can figure out the ROW around the West End Circle and then use protected bus lanes from West Carson.

The problem with the Oakland project is the bus lanes aren’t going to be protected. They’ll serve as dual right turn lanes at multiple points, and they’re not taking measures to protect the lanes that actually are dedicated, outside of some red paint.

With the full gondola proposal in Port Authority’s long range plans, the connection to the South Busway/Overbrook Line JCT would open up greatly improved commuting options for the South Hills to Oakland, and the connections for Hazelwood and the Hill to both Oakland and the Strip would be highly beneficial for both those neighborhoods, and the Oakland-Strip connection is a major missing link (with all due respect to the 54C).

I highly recommend that article on the Ottawa “O-Train” I added late to my last post. The problem is most North American transit agencies think of local rail service in terms of either light rail or heavy commuter rail, and are blind to the happy medium of regional rail that is significantly cheaper than both. It’s only feasible on lines with limited freight traffic that service some dense neighborhoods, but that’s exactly what the AVRR line is.

I agree on your last point about bus signal priority and exclusive lanes 100%. I’d love to see them start by enforcing the existing Downtown lanes and adding as much signal priority as possible. I’ll also give PRT it’s due on some of the “belt buses” they’re proposing. The east-west connection through Brookline and Beechview is something I’ve been clamoring for since I moved down here!

I’m not sure how feasible the Route 8 corridor would be, but the Strip to New Kensington absolutely would be and AVRR ownership has long been amenable to it. Investing in some lightweight DMUs (and their maintenance) and making some small scale track improvements would absolutely be cheaper than paving over the whole line for a busway, and would attract a higher ridership while providing faster, scalable service.

I especially like the idea of building a little shoulder station in the Strip that could serve as the terminus for both the AVRR line and the Oakland gondola, while connecting with the Penn/Liberty bus trunk for an easy transfer to Downtown.

Edit: here’s an article on the Ottawa DMU line I mentioned http://www.eastsiderailnow.org/o-train.html

I get all that for the current financial constraints for Port Authority, but the problem with BRT is projects end up getting watered down significantly. The West Busway is a great example, as is the Oakland “BRT” project (which would be a fine idea if it was actually BRT).

What I’d love to see Port Auth… errr, PRT do is commit to the full Gondola proposal, both for sex appeal and as a highly cost effective way to built a direct transit line to Oakland from multiple dense neighborhoods, use the AVRR as a high frequency regional rail line (which as I argued upthread would be cheaper than converting it to a busway and could pilot the feasibility of regional rail on other lines), and focus on improving the bus network through redesigning it on “high transfer, high frequency” principles and by actually enforcing the existing and proposed bus lanes.

I’d also love to see them electrify the heaviest bus trunks by using trolleybuses with in motion charging instead of buying battery electric buses that will struggle mightily in the winter, and will require expensive battery replacements and time intensive recharging.

Whats even more cost effective than building more busways is running DMUs on existing rail infrastructure that only run freight overnight… like the AVRR line to New Kensington that Port Authority wants to turn into a busway because they’re allergic to trains.

Ottawa started a similar line (mostly single tracked freight line with only overnight traffic) 20 years ago for $21 million. Adjust that for inflation, and triple that for shits and giggles, and you’re still looking at a much cheaper project with higher capacity, scalable, faster vehicles operating at 15 minute headways.

AVRR also owns the line running up the route 8 corridor. Just saying…

You said the same thing to North Haverbrook!

Skybus was an attempted boondoggle, and the years spent over legal and political battles were a waste that ended up making the LRT and Busway plan more expensive and significantly less extensive that it should have been had they done it from the beginning. There’s a reason “people movers” don’t exist outside of airports and a handful of niche lines.

By “500 million.. to build the red line” I assume you mean the phase 1 plans, which I believe was mostly the downtown subway, along with the panhandle bridge conversion, the Mt. Lebo Tunnel, and the South Hills Village terminus? I’ve read that Brookline Connection article before but it’s been a minute.

LRT investment is expensive in the short term, but cost effective in the long term as long as ridership is decent (which it is, save the Library line). The tragedy of Port Authority’s Skybus obsession and anti-trolley bias is could have converted other old trolley lines, most notably the North Side and Oakland trunks, and made similar modifications as were made to the Beechview/Mt Lebonon and Overbrook Lines, and we’d be in clover right now. For decades, we had a great trolley system that was sorely missing a dedicated Downtown ROW… and now we’ve had several decades of a Downtown subway, but with trolleys only going to one area.

How is the red line a “boondoggle?” Converting old trolley and interurban ROWs into LRT with an integrated Downtown subway system is fundamentally sound transit planning. The mistake is that Port Authority only did this for a couple South Hills routes instead of across the city (partially due to the huge bet they placed on “Skybus,” which was an actual boondoggle).

Because saying “UPitt” is redundant.

Pitt = University of Pittsburgh

UPitt = University University of Pittsburgh

Skybus was gadgetban and a total boondoggle. If Port Authority had instead put its energy right off the bat towards the busways and streamlining the streetcar system into a comprehensive LRT system, then today we’d have one of the best transit systems pound for pound in North America.