Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

SobeysBags t1_j5qk3wb wrote

One of the richest families in the world, worth $8.4 BILLION. They own so many businesses there are researchers who dedicate their whole careers in discovering what they actually own. They are building Canada's new naval fleet in a plant in a new Halifax yard that makes Bath Iron works look quaint. They have fleets of ships supplying their oil refineries and oil storage plants. They own tire companies, trucking companies, pulp and paper plants, railways, logistics companies, Kent (Canada's version of Lowes), agricultural companies (cavendish farms), they even make diapers and tissues. The list goes on.

Yet they are synonymous with avoiding taxes. You'd never know there was a family of Canadian billionaires floating around New Brunswick and Maine.

28

Azr431 t1_j5r9a3j wrote

Billionaires shouldn’t exist

15

saigonk t1_j5s1g7y wrote

Explain why?

−6

gjazzy68 t1_j5terd4 wrote

You explain why they should.

6

saigonk t1_j5thkxp wrote

Good retort there. If someone makes money it isn’t a crime and it isn’t wrong, it’s how they act as a person. I don’t fault anyone being rich, they either earned it, got lucky, or were given it. All of which you or I could also do in one fashion or another.

Being jealous of those individuals is understandable, they have so much money, why don’t they give to things I want, etc.

It’s “what-about-ism” at its finest.

0

gjazzy68 t1_j5tpjtj wrote

It's not! And I will try to explain you why. Your response is a classic one, that's why I was curious to hear it first. And I get it. Most people work their daily grind, thinking one day they would be filthy rich and get out of that. Capitalism is brilliant that way, make other people work to death, based on a dream. And if suddenly people can't become a billionaire for some reason, that would be the killing of that dream. And hope is important to get by.

But, being rich and being a Bilionaire is two different things. To help you visualize 1 million seconds is 12 days, 1 billion second is 31 years. It would take me, with a very good salary if you consider the American average, 6 THOUSAND years of hard work without spending a single dime to reach a billion, but only 8 years to reach a million. And although a million doesn't have the same power as it used to I'd gladly retire now, in my mid 40s, if I had a couple of that in my savings.

Nobody makes a billion by chance, and even a lottery billionaire, which is extremely rare, won't be able to hold that money for very long if they are honest folks. Because people are only able to keep their billionaire status by exploiting other people, evading taxes, buying political influence, and benefiting from inside trading information. And that's why they shouldn't exist.

If billionaires didn't exist there would still be rich people and poor people, there'd still be inequality, but it would be just a little harder for a very few group of people to keep control over the world.

9

tomhsmith t1_j5udjza wrote

So what does someone do if they want to retain their company and their company becomes worth billions? They'll pay a huge amount of taxes once they sell or die.

1

gjazzy68 t1_j5v3v2k wrote

They should be paying those taxes alive.

2

Muted_Discussion_550 t1_j5tmrv6 wrote

Trickle down capitalism has failed that's why there shouldn't be billionaires someone who has that much money should be deemed a national security risk they can buy politicians lobby for whatever they want whether it be to keep minimum wage down or to keep cigarettes on shelves billionaires are for the most part are turning this world into a coffin

7

Notmystationbro t1_j5r7mvn wrote

All rich people use tax loopholes written by both parties to avoid paying “x” taxes

4

bortvern t1_j5tjk9e wrote

It's kind of an inherent problem with being wealthy. Most people don't make enough money to make "tax optimization" a worthwhile endeavor, but at a certain point the money saved by minimizing tax liability far outweighs the money spent getting there. From the perspective of the wealthy, they are compliant tax paying entities, and any perceived inequity is the problem of the lawmaker.

2

PGids t1_j5tbryv wrote

> They are building Canada’s new naval fleet in a plant in a new Halifax yard that makes Bath Iron works look quaint

Full transparency, as far as shipyards go BIW is quaint. When you have one customer and one customer only, who pays handsomely, you don’t need a ton of room to attempt to crank out two ~600ft hulls a year vs what you need to build super freighters

I’ve been in a variety of heavy industries since 2015 including BIW, and as far as sheer acreage of an operation they’re peons. I worked a power plant in Texas whose coal pile alone was probably 80% of the size of the Bath yard

3

SobeysBags t1_j5tn3lz wrote

True, to be fair the shipyard in Halifax essentially didn't exist up until about 10 years ago, when the Irving's won contract to essentially rebuild the entire Canadian naval fleet over the next 20-30 years. It's crazy what they have built on the Halifax waterfront. So essentially they currently only have one customer for this particular shipbuilding plant, but they do have other shipbuilding plants.

1

bigbluedoor t1_j5p978p wrote

https://preview.redd.it/5skrwnt5b2ea1.jpeg?width=2083&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=19a5f081d328dd3ea29dc11effa3f8c677935a22

honestly don’t love that vast swaths of the state are privately help like this. the land owners could do some really gnarly stuff if they wanted with little we could do to stop them

20

terminalE469 t1_j5pa5i0 wrote

im jealous of people out west that have greater access to atv and snowmobile trails because their access to them doesn’t hinge on the schedules and whims of logging companies.

9

Azr431 t1_j5r90tj wrote

lol not even close to reality. The logging/paper product companies out west were always amenable to outdoorsmen. As they sold off parcels to private land owners, many of those private owners have closed off access in many ways. Look up the Wilkes brothers from Texas and the shit they’ve done in Idaho

3

terminalE469 t1_j5rgkp4 wrote

i meant public land but yeah. we have those assholes here too

5

Azr431 t1_j5t3wd2 wrote

Ah yeah, the public lands out west are great

2

hike_me t1_j5s9u6i wrote

They’re talking about federal land (like BLM, National Forests, National Recreation Areas, etc). Out west hunting, ATVing, snowmobiling, etc is generally done on federal land. BLM generally allows more permissive use (like jeep trails and boondocking)

2

hyzerflip207 t1_j5pc5ai wrote

That’s not true. They need to follow regs just like everyone else.

9

enjoiart t1_j5pon57 wrote

Yes they follow the laws that they want to. The rest they will circumvent, like clear cutting laws.

0

Hockeyjockey58 t1_j5q7b0a wrote

FWIW, when you cross the border up there, the Northwoods opens up to farmland. Privately held land is sometimes part of the conservation equation. The fact that Irving makes its money in forestry is mainly why the Northwoods stays as woods.

9

hike_me t1_j5qc2dg wrote

The land that was suitable for agriculture was cleared and developed as such. That’s where potatoes are grown in northern Maine.

When Maine sold off vast tracts of state held forestland, they assumed the timber barons would clear it and then sell it off to homesteaders. Turns out it was shitty farmland so that didn’t happen.

As you go even farther north into Quebec you eventually arrive at the St Lawrence valley, which has good farmland.

9

Volator t1_j5r3hzu wrote

It's the best part of the state. And they let the public use it (for a small fee in the NMW). It's a great resource. If the state owned it they'd never log it, the roads would get all f-d up and it would be useless.

4

marrymejojo t1_j5rxvs8 wrote

How else would it be held? Honest question. I mean we have parks. Public land. It's hard fought land though. Tje majority of land will be private owned.

2

hike_me t1_j5sabhl wrote

Out west a huge percentage of wilderness / undeveloped land is federally owned. Over 60% of Utah is federal public land, over 80% of Nevada, 45% of California, 52% of Oregon, etc

4

chefmtm t1_j5pon0b wrote

Is this Irving from gas stations?

15

Hockeyjockey58 t1_j5q728j wrote

Yes. It’s a family business for lack of a better term that has business in everything from forestry to railroads to oil and even shipbuilding.

8

Claudius-Germanicus t1_j5paegd wrote

Fuck the landowners, all my homies hate the rich landowners

12

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5qcphs wrote

What would you and your homies do with land?

1

Claudius-Germanicus t1_j5qd02g wrote

Nothing! As god intended

10

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5qv5r3 wrote

What's the difference?

0

Claudius-Germanicus t1_j5qv9d5 wrote

They even don’t live here and the properties basically exist as a giant tax dodge

7

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5r59zt wrote

Come with, and you'll be, in a world of accurate accounting!

The secret is not to attack land owners. The secret is to audit tax cheats. Accounting is my #1 highest priority when it comes to solving the woes of the modern citizenry.

−2

Claudius-Germanicus t1_j5rd0qk wrote

Well no, landholding and tax cheating goes hand in hand. At least when you own estates that can be seen from space. Nobody needs that much land, break up the manors.

6

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5rdf5a wrote

How? Who owns it? These are the types of questions accountants can help you answer.

0

Claudius-Germanicus t1_j5t9kn0 wrote

The maps pretty clearly lay out who owns it. I’m starting to suspect I’m speaking to a butthurt absentee landlord on the run from the IRS

3

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5to7dc wrote

I think you have far to much faith in "the maps" i know peolle who make maps. The records in this state are incomplete, inaccurate, missing or never existed. It is definitely not laid out clearly.

−1

Claudius-Germanicus t1_j5txi60 wrote

Yeah that’ll stand up in court. Come back from Florida and shovel your driveway like a man!

3

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5tzt1d wrote

Why would I be in court? I don't even know the case. I spent last 2 days shoveling.

I am sorry, but can you be a little more clear with your insults?

0

Guygan t1_j5oy8nh wrote

That’s according to public records.

There is at least one landowner I know of that’s bigger than this but their holdings are hidden by owning through trusts and other entities that disguise the actual beneficial owner.

10

CombinationSea6976 t1_j5tm5t6 wrote

Correct. The $8.2m property that sold in Orland was owned by Penny Candy Cove, LLC

2

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5qcueu wrote

Tree are not an ecosystem like the forest they clearcut.

7

Notmystationbro t1_j5r7rtu wrote

Hence why the planted a shit ton of trees

1

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5rbvzn wrote

Do you think planting trees just magically brings back all the biodiversity?

4

Notmystationbro t1_j5rcxfk wrote

Over time yes of course it does

0

TarantinoFan23 t1_j5rdmti wrote

Says who? Because I have seen christmas tree farms and they are not diverse.

3

bigbluedoor t1_j5vlryb wrote

over thousands of years maybe, and that’s assuming they stop clearcutting today

1

truththeavengerfish t1_j5qf7yq wrote

The trees are being planted so that they can clear cut again. It’s bullshit p.r.

7

Notmystationbro t1_j5r7zdt wrote

And in 100 years from now when those trees are mature to cut down they’ll plant more and the cycle repeats itself. You do know that trees are a renewable energy right?

0

Seyword t1_j5peabj wrote

The Irving family recently sold the most expensive piece of Maine real estate in all of 2022. Can’t recall the address at the moment but it sold for $8+ million. Was worked on by a team of architects/builders over the course of 15+ years.

3

CombinationSea6976 t1_j5s9gyx wrote

Was that the property in Orland?

2

Seyword t1_j5ta0ce wrote

Yeah that’s the one. 135 Hartview Cir

1

CombinationSea6976 t1_j5ti4i5 wrote

I live here in Orland and have for many years. Million dollar real estate properties are popping up here all over the place nowadays Used to be a not so popular town. I’m puzzled as to why all of the sudden interest here.

2

Seyword t1_j5tisjh wrote

Looks like he owned close to 500 acres there, not sure if it was all sold with that house. My guess would be that people were able to buy the land relatively cheaply and the spend their money on the build.

1

CombinationSea6976 t1_j5tnb0q wrote

The old timers here in Orland largely worked at the paper mill in neighboring Bucksport. Many families pooled together and scraped up money to by land and make seasonal camps on Toddy pond, Craig’s pond, Alamoosoock lake, Heart pond, Jacob Buck’s pond in Bucksport just to name a few. Mostly generationally owned which now seem to be being snapped up for incredible sums of money by folks from away.

1

SobeysBags t1_j5rhc3q wrote

The Irving's are also the 5th largest land owner in the USA.

2

acister t1_j5prpb9 wrote

Bunch of thugs

1

HumpSlackWails t1_j60nqfh wrote

How many of those trees are still growing?

What percentage are sold for wood pulp?

1