Submitted by ChatNoir33 t3_11iy2ti in Pennsylvania
Other than the senior level management that has to go back into the office 3 days a week starting tomorrow, has anyone heard anything about other state workers returning to the office? State employees haven’t heard anything either way. The Governors office has not said they will have to go back in eventually, but he also hasn’t said they won’t have to go back in. Will the 2023 union contract include anything about telework?
Well, why would Pennsylvania do the smart thing when they can do the least efficient, costlier thing. Idgaf about all the small business owners in center city kicking up a fuss because they can't charge the office drones 20+ for a dry egg sandwich and crappy coffee anymore
they think everyone would be going to those restaurants again but the truth is that we're all so much poorer from inflation that we'd be packing our lunches anyway.
Cities need to be made to live in, not to be commuted into. This change will happen, over time, but the cities need to adapt.
That's what triggered me. I already started packing more and will patronize hrg businesses even less if they force us back.
Strawberry Square food is substantially worse than outside the city and more expensive. Even the taco bell has items $2 more than outside the city. No shit these businesses are struggling. They are charging $12+ for the cheapest option and it is usually shit quality.
This is the exact type of answer I was looking for. Thanks so much!
I heard that the union wasn’t too keen on putting telework into the contract and are actually discussing calling union staff back into the office in August.
Yeah and I also heard that at that meeting two weeks ago they'd be telling us we are back in full time.
Then I was told actually we're going to be told we're doing three days a week in the office...
Then I was told actually it's just managers going to get called back three days first.....
Oh actually, managers are gonna be coming in full time...
My point is, unless you get it in writing from the governers office, stop believing all these stupid back to work rumors flying around.
Let the office pessamists work themselves up, dont feed into it by spreading all those rumors. Like I said, talk to your union rep about your telework opinions, tell them you want to telework. Or If you aren't in the union consider joining so that you can voice your concerns yourself.
I’ve been trying to be the voice of reason in my office about the rumors, but it does get exhausting.
Well, there is something to be said for being a voice of reason. However, I have seen the state do dumb dumb things regarding state employees for decades now. Oh, the republican congress and republican governor starts not to pay into the pensions, cool... then they complain about the pensions being underfunded and have cut the pension - on of the things that really brings folks into the state employement.
They also don't do half measures or easy situations, like if I could go into the office when I want to, i'd be in more often but it would have to be every wednesday or one wednesday every month, similar to the AWS bullshit. I'm not doing that, i'm staying home full time if i can.
It is possible that the union gets telework into the new contract and those usually do include general management level staff as well, since it is easier but it is possible that management level are not included in that.
Our teaches union (in Central PA) is currently grieving the jobs of the online only teachers that are working from home.
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I fall under the people who have to go back three days a week starting tomorrow and I was told I have to sign a new telework agreement. The old one is no longer valid.
Pray they do not alter the deal any further.
> 3) A lot of new employees took paycuts to come to the state with the understanding that the cost saved from going to an office by teleworking would make up for it. These employees might leave for the private industry if they lose the one plus they had coming here.
So much this. My department's down about 20-30% workers since the start of COVID and most of those people left when it was told that they had to come in for some days in the office last year. Senior leadership is expecting another 20-30% to leave if we're forced to come for any amount of days.
That's a lot of workers to replace and not a lot of applicants coming in.
Ha. I was also on that meeting (virtually, from my house across the state, wonderful how that works when you can work from home), your description is very accurate. Anyways, I contacted the union this morning and requested that they push hard to keep telework for us as a part of the new contract. The person who responded to me said he has received similar feedback and would pass my message along to the negotiating team. I don’t have high hopes, but glad I said what I wanted to say.
One of the few perks of the job that could help with retention at the moment. Salary has really caved in due to inflation....
Suck rolls downhill. If the bosses have to come in, the chain of command will follow. Downtown Harrisburg seems to need the influx of state workers to survive in the long term.
My labor and life is worth more than someone’s economic dreams. Remote work means business needs to adapt, not complain and constrict.
Harrisburg should knock down the empty parking garages and put in high density housing units imo.
Second Street shouldn't be left at the whims of commuters. Also, what happened to all the leases Governor Wolf was renegotiating? I thought Wolf was trying to shed office space and force state workers back on the complex
The city desperately needs more housing. It's one of the most competitive rental markets in the country which only proves that it is an inventory issue since we have been working from home for the past 2.5 years
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Yea, I've heard of a few (terrible) managers making their people come in 3 days a week too because "if I have to, so do you.'
non-union state employee here. The work we do can all be done virtually and we’ve proven that for the past 2.5 years. The email sent out by OA was pretty much a slap in the face and came off like they (leadership) do not care about their employees. I seriously wouldn’t mind coming in once or twice a week, for maybe half days. Sometimes it’s good to just get in touch with our teams face to face and brainstorm. However, when we’re in the office nothing gets done. It’s like back to back meetings and people want to be chatty. In my house it’s quiet and I can power through so much more work. I won’t even go into the driving time/car/gas savings. Not sure what their goal is here but there’s a lot of tension within agencies!
Edit: spelling
Slowly learned that most meetings are for upper management to feel important in their positions.
Anecdotal and not related to state work but definitely meetings:
my fiancé works as an engineer at a factory company. Desk job, he could work from home but the management severely frowns upon it (tells him he can only do it if he’s sick but ok enough to work at home or bad weather or something). Absolutely HATES working there. The work itself is fine but the people are awful. Everyone’s pushing their work onto someone else so nothing gets done, and there are constant overlapping meetings. Then there’s some people who only have to ok something for it to move on but don’t bother for three weeks. No one emails for some godforsaken reason, instead hunting the other person down or scheduling unnecessary meetings, especially outside of hours. Don’t get me started on the environment (office chatter is downright depressing).
We had plans one Friday, and if he left on time it would have been fine. He had to cancel one meeting to go to this other meeting deemed “more important” an hour before he left work. The questions could have been solved with emails and maybe a 15 minute meeting. Scheduled for 30 minutes, supposed to include between 6-10 people. Only 3 people showed up, including my fiancé. The rest were doing mandatory training that their WHOLE department was doing. The thirty minutes go by and as they wrapped up, another person showed up. So the meeting happened AGAIN, and it was time for my fiancé to leave work. Then the freaking supervisor walks in and also asks for the meeting to go again. Sits right in front of the door and it would have been “disrespectful” for my fiancé to leave so he left late. My fiancé made it clear he needed to leave before the meeting started. Then some guy asked for his help after the meeting as he was about to leave. And he had the gall to say “weren’t you supposed to be gone an hour ago?” NO SHIT JIM. And he still had to drive home (mind you the traffic gets worse the later it gets). Absolutely ridiculous.
What the actual hell is wrong with office culture people? There’s no respect for anyone’s time, working in the least efficient manner. It’s no wonder work from home works better, they’d actually have to use the tools given to them to communicate and (GASP) do their job!!! God lord what a concept.
Edit: he did a review recently with management. The mkfs told him he’s “not working enough hours” and treating it like a “punch in/out job”. So you’re telling me he’s supposed to work through lunch (they said that) AND unpaid overtime for a company that already treats him like shit? Yeah no. Fuck that.
A lot of management is just trying to fill up their schedule to justify their position
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I know that dcnr is bleeding workers. We can't seem to keep them at our parks. Especially seasonal workers. They can just go to Sheetz and work for better starting pay. I'm hoping for an adjustment in pay with the next contract but I'm not holding out hope. If it was not for the health insurance I'd be gone as well but that thankfully is still decent.
I work at one of the last state centers for intellectual disabilities and we are having the same issue. We've had contract/agency helping us for the past year or more and it's getting to the point where there are more contract than regular state staff. I don't see us being open much longer due to no one wanting to work there and more people keep leaving. It's upsetting!
It is really unsettling and upsetting. It's sad that the Commonwealth doesn't really seem to make it a priority when it comes to employee retention. It used to be people wanted to work for the state because you had good health benefits... Decent pay... And the pension. Now the decent pay is going out the window and the pension is gone for most workers unless you've been grandfathered in. Like I said the health insurance is still decent.
I've heard that they were floating the idea of reinstating the pension for all workers to try to create some retention. But the way I see it is that is a good idea but if I'm a new worker coming into the state the pension is the last thing on my mind. I would rather start out with good pay. It seems to me that they want to dance around the issue and that is the workers need paid more. And until that happens they're going to keep bleeding.
Right they took away all the good stuff that made it worth it to work for the state. I've been there for almost 14 years and feel like I'm stuck. It's luke they don't even care about us.
I've been there for 10 years and I've watched things rapidly deteriorate in that amount of time. I always feel sorry for some of the people I work with that have been there since the early '90s. Some of them are so disheartened and they just want to retire but the economy is so bad that some of them can't. Some of them even talk about the golden years of the '90s and how it was such a wonderful place to work.
Yup I see that too. Most are worried they won't make it until their retirement date. I can't even imagine being a year away from retirement and have to find something else
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Yea that's what I'm worried about. I'm sure there's plenty of open positions in harrisburg but it would be an hour drive. There isn't much local. Most of the contract people don't care and show up when they want to. They're getting paid at least $10 an hour more than the state employees. They don't have the benefits we do. It's all frustrating because the residents have been thru enough in their lives now they have staff that don't care anymore.
My friend works doing the phone calls for heating assistance and all that and they are renting out most of her building to other businesses. She said they are keeping a small office for those who can’t/won’t work from home and managers. Other than that shes working from home permanently.
It just makes sense but the problem is that with the state they're not outright paying for it, it's government money so they don't give a shit. It's so obvious that if you can't retain people, and people are going to leave if you make them go back into the office they're going to quit, it seems obvious to the rest of us then you should keep that at least as a partial option. But again, Pennsylvania state.... People that really really need money can even save money simply on not having to get their professional work clothes pressed or even doing regular loads of laundry all the time because they can wear their house clothes. That alone could save some people money that would really make a difference in their lives.
It saves people so much money from gas, parking and vehicle upkeep to clothing to food and this is not to mention how much time people save by not having to commute. For me, my commute was an hour plus with traffic, but it would also take me another hour or so so get “office ready”. Now I can sleep in until 7:30am and start working at 8am instead of getting up at 5:30am to make sure I’m in the office by 8. The extra time is invaluable.
>saves people so much money from gas, parking and vehicle upkeep to clothing to food and this is not to mention how much time people save by not having to commute
Aside from all those benefits, it's better for the environment and, I highly suspect, better for people's mental health. Win-win
And of course, the last thing which might even be the most important is that happy workers are better workers. They need to get their heads out of their asses this is a win on all fronts if they would allow people to work at home.
I am not a union member; however, all of my staff are active members. They have a great deal of anxiety given the “unknown.” I do know that they reported receiving questionnaires about what issues are most important to them in the next contact. Salary and teleworking of course are the most important issues to them. Personally, since teleworking began, productivity for most of my team has greatly increased and given inflation, it’s one of the few perks they have at the moment. Morale is already low as is our complement. If teleworking is eliminated, I will probably lose most of my newer people and those who can retire. For my agency, there is no need for everyone to be back into the office. In our particular local office, we have no desire for anyone to have to return unwillingly. Unfortunately, we have no control over what the new administration decides. I am hoping that teleworking will continue going forward.
I am in this same boat. I’m not covered by the Union contract, but usually management level staff end up following whatever is in the union contract. I have had two staff members say they will quit if we have to go back into the office and another that said they are likely to retire early even if it means taking a hit to their pension. Our office has been very bit as productive from home as they were in the office. I’d actually argue they are more productive because they are spending more of their day working and less time with the “water cooler” office talk and all the other distractions that come with the office environment. Morale is low already, as you said, and if we get called back in for essentially no good reason, people are never going to put in the same amount of effort into their daily work they are now.
For the new people, you are right because it isn't like the pension is great these days, and pay has always been under the private sector. Leave and insurance are some of the only benefits left that could draw someone in.
and yeah, I don't know why anyone near retirement wouldn't float out telework as long as possible and then just retire when it comes to it.
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Hmm, that sucks. I'm getting to the point where I have the limit saved up and next year I'll have to take like 5 weeks in the year.
I had a friend who got like one-two weeks a year, it didnt roll over. I know a lot of people who don't really even get to take their leave. Having 5pm come or Friday ends I am out of the office, no one is calling me
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Nice. It kinda feels good as a "sorry boss, I gotta take the time" and as a fall back Incase of leaving the state.
That also doesn't could sick. Most places just have PTO. A couple of weeks ago most, I get like almost two months of leave in a year. That is pretty good for me
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I don't remember losing sick days. I remember losing "personal days" that actually added to our sick leave but I could be wrong.
I remember losing out on multiple steps b cause of the 2008 fuck ups that really sucked because multiple years in, I would have been higher but they could have fix d that and I just haven't paid attention
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Hmm. That is something I'll have to look at. Cause I don't remember losing sick days just losing personal and gaining other days
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2 more years till I'm vested with the original pension plan and then I'm out. no reason to stick around if they reverse the teleworking agreement.
I just got hired as a remote state employee (non-union, management), I was told that I am expected to come in every once in a while for project related items and office wide meetings and the expectation is work from home 99% of the time. I don’t even think I’ll have a desk space in Harrisburg. The team was hired from all over the state so I think some departments and agencies are handling it different than others.
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You’re guess is as good as ours. Everything regarding the continuity of telework has been met with silence or non-answers.
I’m sure management and executives will find a way to ruin things for those of us currently part time teleworking.
If they call back state employees, we have several in our office that are on the cusp of retiring. Many of them have said if they are called back, they would just sign their papers. Of an office of 35, there is at least 4 that have said they wouldn’t come back. They may not seem like much but our office is already short 3 workers and our caseloads are very heavy as it is. To get approval to fill those positions, have the staff trained, and carrying a full case load would take over a year. I am hoping they really consider teleworking as not only are the wages part of the retention problem, but so is the teleworking option.
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We haven’t gotten rid of any of our office space yet. They were starting to talk about downsizing our space right before the election, but since then we haven‘t heard anything else about it. I’d feel a lot better (as I’m sure others would too) if they started getting rid of more office space.
Lets look objectively.
Leadership is back in the office.
Taxes are down in urban areas where most offices are.
Restaurants etc are not getting lunch crowds, again taxes.
Other employees who cannot telework are demanding some other perk or compensation.
People who rent space to the state are usually politically connected, they are losing rents.
IT is usually the easiest job to telework, and the industry is currently experiencing layoffs.
Whether legitimate or not, when the politicians aka the rule makers have to show up (albeit how little they do), then they are going to demand that you show up.
My opinion is the grand experiment is ending.
>My opinion is the grand experiment is ending.
It's funny because the "experiment" was a massive success, most workers are as or even more productive with WFH than they are in office.
Middle management is mad they can't micromanage anymore, so they're going to cost companies (and taxpayers, in this instance) money trying to force people back. Funniest part is they'll also probably lose some of their best employees, because only the worse employees with no alternatives are going to come back without a fight.
Me personally I am way more productive at home. I'm a software engineer.
>restaurants etc are not getting lunch crowds
Nobody is obligated to patronize a business, regardless of where they work.
You are correct. But employees working at a location greatly increase the probability of those restaurants and other local businesses increasing sales. My point was that those businesses are not paying taxes like they previously have. If they earn less, then they pay less. The city or town where the offices are located count on the tax money to pay for services. The municipalities where state offices are located are undoubtedly lobbying for employees to be back in the office.
Yea, you’re not wrong about any of this.
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State employees have been back since last July-August. There are many articles to reference if you’re interested.
From my understanding, a formal telework agreement is already in effect for all positions that would make sense
I’m a state employee with a full time telework agreement. The management directive about telework however does not guarantee we will get to keep that agreement and given what happened with senior level management staff, the rest of us are feeling like they could make us come back into the office at any time. The fact that no one is saying anything either way doesn’t give anyone any comfort. I was hoping other state employees might have heard something that I haven’t.
Ok, do you think senior level management were wfh on telework agreements that are now being reneged?
The senior level management in my department were under the same telework agreement as the rest of us.
I am in management and I have a full time telework agreement, but since August I've been required to report to the office at least two days a week. Our union staff is still home full time, but I'm worried that if we start trying to pull them back in there will be a mass exodus. The state no longer offers great benefits or a pension, and without those it is hard to compete with private employers that pay more. Unfortunately those telework agreements were to protect the state, not guarantee the right to work from home.
My state employed friends have been back in the office since the end of last summer. Eventually, they were offered to wfh 5 days per pay period by applying for and being approved to work under a telework agreement. The state is hiring people with the telework agreement as an incentive.
Not sure how a telework agreement is to protect the state and there are only two guarantees in life.
Not all state employees.
Ok, but gov Wolfe did end the covid mandates that allowed most state employees to work from home last year.
I'd assume it's saving the state loads of money on utilities. So if your department is getting the work done there wouldn't be much incentive to make people come back.
Is there a forum for PA state employees to discuss benefits, perks, and frustrations of where they work?
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They want all Senior Level Management workers back first. They will decide on everyone else later.
Not all state employees work in an office or at home.
I'd count on it. The move to go back to the office is coming directly from the governor. Some departments weren't aware of the 3-day mandate for senior leadership until they got the email. Bring in the senior leadership first and eventually everybody.
While Shapiro was running the OAG, they're the only department I'm aware of that never went remote. Shapiro just doesn't believe in remote working, unfortunately.
This is just so verifiably incorrect.
I'd assume that the justification for the state office space needs to be justified. But I think that this would be a good time for state workers to negotiate better working environments for some office's.
I wanted to work for the state because of the benefits back when I lived in PA. The salaries were so low, and the jobs were always out in the boonies somewhere that I wasn't willing to move to in order to work. Having telework would've been a huge perk and probably deepen the talent pool.
There has been no mention of a return to office for me. (I work for DHS, have been teleworking since mid 2021)
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Oh good the city really needs more traffic and people vying for parking spaces. I was just saying to myself the other day, this place needs more cars strewn about.
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Its nothing but bullshit that employees are not at the work place doing there jobs that aren't getting done I wish we all could work three days aweek
NJ state employees have been back to the offices in Trenton since October 2021
And nobody noticed
For months I've been reading on this sub that people can't make contact with an assortment of State offices, along with extended wait times for everything. Didn't realize it was because no one was at work. I guess my opinion is go back to the workplace and do the job you signed on for. Keep in mind that many less fortunate never got a "work from home" break.
Not one thought given to consumers of government services. I have to wait two months to form an LLC (a process that used to take a day or two) because these lazy shitheads can’t come to the office.
You're waiting because of understaffing and low employee retention, not because the employees that are working are working from home.
Lol state gov employees….
They should, covid is over, people are going back to work now.
Says the person with no understanding of what remote work is.
I work remote some, but I’m a supervisor, so I’ve earned the right. Most people need to be in the office to collaborate and be monitored that they are working and not goofing off.
You sound like a shit supervisor if that's how you view your employees.
Well if anyone needed an example of poor management we have one here.
Thanks for being the example.
Yes, you got me, I am horrible because I want my people working and not on FB.
That’s not it but you are getting so close.
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Good managers drive success by setting reasonable goals and holding people accountable to those. How they meet those goals shouldn't matter. If someone can do the job in one hour and fuck off on Reddit the other 7, that's your failure as a people manager. You need people visible to you because you don't know how to manage work. So yes, that makes you a shit manager, completely unrelated to remote work. That you had 2-3 years to do a better job managing work and you still can't do it without visibility tells me you can't grow as a manager.
Seems like a good thing your manager isn't micromanaging you because you should be on a PIP.
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“I’m higher up so fuck you, I’m working from home but your asses better be in the office.”
If your employees don’t like you, that might have something to do with it. Personally I’d walk into your empty office, toss my badge on your desk, and maybe in two weeks when you next go in you’d realize I quit.
I’m in the private sector and we had to start doing 3 days a week in office for “collaboration”. I have not spoken more than 20 words any day I have been in. My boss sits in her office with her door closed and just IMs people. HR is sabotaging everyone by not allowing IT to provide hardware to work hybrid.
If you think being in the office keeps state employees from goofing off instead of working, I have bad news for you.
Bro that's boomer as hell.
Get up and take your lazy asses to the office
Or you know let them be productive through WFH.
Sorry you have no friends and need to force people into the office so you can feel less lonely. Hopefully life gets better for you, but, rest assured, your coworkers don't actually like you.
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Arcangel613 t1_jb0ntrv wrote
So the new DEP sec had a 'fun' little meeting two weeks ago and we were told "teleworking is a privilege not a right"
Which....Given that several of us signed on with contracts that state we can fulltime/part time telework....im not sure how that's a privilege.
It's since been stated to a few of us by several senior DEP employees that:
The state is having retention problems due to low pay
A lot of senior level employees moved away from the large city centers when teleworking was implemented and are close enough to full retirement they'd rather retire than come back
A lot of new employees took paycuts to come to the state with the understanding that the cost saved from going to an office by teleworking would make up for it. These employees might leave for the private industry if they lose the one plus they had coming here.
The over all take away was that it seems no one aside from the governor has any idea about what's going to happen with it. But management is aware if teleworking goes away, it's not going quietly.
I know our union reps are trying to get teleworking put into the new contract. If you have any concerns I'd reach out to your union rep and let them know how you feel about it. The more voices the better.