Submitted by Silly_Yak_3741 t3_yarsra in RhodeIsland

Me and my family recently bought land In the town of Warren RI. We purchased the home with all intent of adding on an addition to be able to accommodate our large family, AKA my mom and dad with a in-law to be built. We had architects, surveyors, landscapers, realtors and all close neighbors involved in knowing our future plans for the property. After weeks of waiting for our survey to be completed on July 7th we finally were able to finalize the plans with our architect and approach the zoning board with were the boundary lines were in relation to the addition. We then took the time to personally meet with our neighbors Wally and Elaine felag aka Senator Walter Felag who we had a very friendly relationship with and explained to them our plans to update the retaining wall, add proper drainage and replace the trees that are overgrown and causing erosion to our property. We even discussed which kinds of materials would be used and walked the property to show them where the property lines were. We had all intentions of keeping them involved in the decisions and plans in regards to the retaining wall and bushes. 

On August 12th my families beautiful sunny Saturday was disrupted by a court summons being hand delivered to us by the authorities ordered by Senator Walter Flag and his wife Elaine Flag, owner of feminine fancies in Barrington RI,  who are attempting to claim ownership of about 2,000 sqft of our property in adverse possession of our already modestly sized lot of land.(lot size is 11,300sqft)He is claiming a row of bushes he planted 30 years ago was thought to be the property line and now should be looked at as such. These rows of tress are 13 feet on my property. This will cause my lot to become nonconforming with frontage and lot size. We are not able to do my in-law addition on my side yard because they will be moving my side yard from 36ft to 18 ft. He is using a law in place from many years ago to steal this land. He claims he had paid taxes on it but has been found to be lying about that from the town tax collector. He has still managed to use the courts to have a restraining order put up on the trees and land that goes with it. So i am unable to proceed with any build or use the land i legally own. I am now having to battle this senator in court to keep ownership of the land i just purchased.

We were taken back by the severity of the situation and blind sided by the claim. We knew we did all of our due diligence to make sure we knew exactly where our property lines were and had no clue about any potential adverse procession claim. We never once were told they “owned” any part of our property during the 3 months we lived there, nor did the realtor that sold us the property have any clue about there dispute with the trees despite having multiple conversations with the felags. 

As far as we know and the town knows we own past those bushes and the variances we require do not affect the Felags property as it stands. I ask that Walter Felag and Elaine Felag please reconsider there objection to our variance and allow us to continue to go forward with our home as we have established relationships in this town and would hate to uproot our growing family. They have denied any talks of mediation and they are legally trying to take part of my property. My family has been through a terrible ordeal having to wait to see what our future holds for this property. My 5 year old son started Kindergarten and my daughter is in Pre-K in the warren school district. I would hate to have to uproot my children because of these awful people we live next to. We have nothing else we can do but make this as public as possible and get him out of his power seat he holds in the senate. Felag should be representing the people of the good state of RI not bringing them to court to take there property!!

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Brotendo88 t1_itdbxp6 wrote

I suggest taking to the r/legaladvice and see if they can provide any helpful info.

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CatH2222 t1_itdhzt2 wrote

I hate to say this but this is RI. Connections and knowing "a guy " get you far in this state. The senator is well connected. He has time, money and people in right places. It will get messy. Are you ready to fight?

*edit for spelling

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lom117 t1_itdr2in wrote

Textbook RI corruption. You're going to have to hire a lawyer.

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skippyspk t1_itdsibn wrote

You might also want to tell a media outlet about this.

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bambooboi t1_itdszhz wrote

Go to the Barrington Times with this

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Bjarki56 t1_itdt0h9 wrote

Lawyer up. This happened to a friend of mine. He lost in court. It was so infuriating.

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my-cat-has-no-dick t1_itdtuae wrote

Go to the news! Let them put his face on the news and see how that affects his future reelection bids

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mdurg68 t1_itdty05 wrote

I had always wondered how adverse possession works when a new owner comes on. If I was encroaching and using some property and someone called me on it I would concede. Because you bought property based on established property lines not where the row of bushes is. You’ll definitely need to see a lawyer to see what your options are. I wonder if there is any recourse with title insurance? Good luck, I hope you succeed.

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BobJacobs2022 t1_itduyg5 wrote

Welcome to RI...otherwise know as the corrupt state. Sorry this is happening, but corruption rules. I'd just pack up and move. However, make sure you blast this story all over the place as you leave....good luck!

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CatH2222 t1_itdw1dc wrote

I have been trying for the last 20 years. Nothing changes. Once they get into office, they try to do something different but always end up doing the same thing. It's really troubling.

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Vibrant-Nature t1_itdwk3e wrote

LAWYER UP, find one in property law, ya got no other option here and you’ll make an absolute fool out of the senator and the town sees it as yours already, has acknowledged he has never paid any taxes on that land. (Not sure if this matters)

Unfortunately for you and your family these court proceedings will probably drag on for awhile unless the senator realizes he’s in the wrong and does the right thing. Which I doubt. You went over the property lines with them and they never mentioned anything till you were right about to start the project. Morally wrong. Please do your due diligence, hire a good lawyer, I’d try getting everything you can out of this. Don’t be afraid to have a bad neighbor, he already is one and he’ll continue to be.

After consulting with your lawyer, ask about informing the local media and news. They’ll love to hear a story like this. Mention how much damage it’s done with him removing your ability to walk on your own land. If his connections are as deep as some people here say. Blow this shit up over the media.

PS - if you can prove he planted those trees there on the land he thought was his, you could probably have the judge force him to pay to remove all of those trees. This man is an RI senator who’s had many people over his house over the years and doesn’t wanna get looked at like a joke the next time he has company over and a chunk of his yard missing. He’s gonna fight you tooth and nail I think. GOOD LUCK!! And Godspeed! Yeah

And if you lose, definitely blow this up over the news!

EDIT Also keep them downvotes coming, OP deserves justice, his entire plan is now fumbled and his family lives with uncertainty & discomfort now. A Rhode Island senator is literally stealing his land and bullying him. Keep licking those boots.

EDIT 2: How could OP have avoided this? Sounds like they couldn’t have.

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4k5 t1_itdxn2q wrote

Why are you posting this on Reddit?

This reads like you are trying to publicly shame the senator into backing down.

You should be settling this in court.

If he legally does own that section and you can no longer build your addition I feel for you man, but tough luck and take it up with your title insurance company.

If he hasn't been paying taxes in the land (or maintaining it for 40 years as others have brought up or whatever I'm not a lawyer) like you claim this should be an open and shut case and you can proceed building your house and then it sucks that you have a shitty neighbor.

Edited some stuff.

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nonosejoe t1_itdz9p3 wrote

Call the local news stations.

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quahog_clambake t1_itdzu7r wrote

Please keep us updated as your fight continues.

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AbbreviationsWest360 t1_ite0v4z wrote

Having been land surveying 30 years in RI, MA & CT. Did your surveyor set monuments at property corners and show the existing record boundaries on his plan? (Legally required in RI depending on lot size in RI.) I have a feeling this is not going to end well for you, unfortunately. Best of luck.

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techsavior t1_ite1puk wrote

If you haven’t already, lawyer up! and make sure you disclose this post to them; they may have you delete it.

Do not go to the news with this. You don’t want to add a defamation of character or libel lawsuit on top of what you are dealing with.

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Dt74104 t1_ite22qy wrote

The language of that law is an embarrassment to humanity.

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DeliciousScratch3899 t1_ite33zk wrote

Surveyor here. You need to talk to the previous owners. Need to understand the history of that row of bushes. Please find them, and ask them about it.

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UsedCollection5830 t1_ite36l8 wrote

Even if you get a lawyer you don't have the connections he has let's just hope the legal system does the right thing but smalls towns run on who you know and how long you've known them sad situation

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BitterStatus9 t1_ite638c wrote

All the people saying "RI is corrupt!" and "Damn politicians" are on about something that has nothing to do with this. This kind of thing happens all the time in every state, and 99.99% of the time, the people involved are not politicians. Check your knee-jerks at the door.

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JimmyHavok t1_ite6np9 wrote

I don't know about Rhode Island, but in my home state you cannot use adverse possession against a new owner. A friend bought property, and a friend of the seller who had been using it for grazing immediately tried to file adverse possession on it. The new deed invalidated that. The adverse possession period has to restart from the date of transfer of ownership in order to prevent those kinds of shenanigans.

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Street_Run_6445 t1_ite6ync wrote

You need to go to local tv Media to get this resolved.

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DanLins t1_ite774d wrote

Yes on the comment about speaking with the previous owner, since Adverse Posession in most states requires the possession to be hostile, open, notorious and with color of title for the entire statutory required time period. That hostile requirement normally means the possessor would have been "in the face" of the original owned had the question ever come up during that period.

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dotts6969 t1_ite9g6j wrote

previous ownership passed away. Not suddenly, they were 90+. House was for sale for a long time as well. Seems like a lot of time and opportunity to settle the land dispute before hitting new ownership with a C&D

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Grand_Profession_207 t1_itedikt wrote

It’s entirely possible the AP of the land wasn’t malicious which could explain why it wasn’t settled with the previous owners and wasn’t until OP had the land surveyed that the boundary discrepancy was realized.

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saucyB52 t1_itefi5y wrote

i was once investoibagating the corners of my families odal lands

i found the neighbors(his house has since been struckin down by lightning) corner plot marker, and I placed a quahog shell that i myself had dug up, harvested and eaten, so i then placed the quahog shell on the property marky, thus making the mark my own.

I am now the rightfull ruler of the surrounding lands, their cattle and fruit baring trees

thats all you gotta do

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gravytrain2112 t1_itefk92 wrote

Discuss this with your surveyor. They should have insurance and a lawyer who’s reputable in this area ready to discuss your issues.

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degggendorf t1_itegb5o wrote

>This reads like you are trying to publicly shame the senator into backing down.

Yes, and?

It's a perfectly legal way of getting what they want, why shouldn't OP try this method?

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PinCushionPete314 t1_iteo0ck wrote

It doesn’t sound like it was open and notorious. Doesn’t seem like the neighbors even knew where the property line was.

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mdurg68 t1_itep2a5 wrote

Yeah I’d did some googling after I sent the reply. I guess if in fact the row of bushes was planted there 30 years ago by them then it’s their property. That’s totally messed up.

What part of the home buying process would cover that? Getting a survey? I guess people skip that if they think the area has been “stable” for a number of years.

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wtfburritoo t1_itep5fd wrote

This is normal for any property dispute, the restraining order will likely remain in place until it's settled in court. Adverse possession is common, but in this situation, if they haven't actually been paying taxes on the additional 2,000 sq. ft. of property, and all of the previous owners of your lot have been, then I'd say they don't have a leg to stand on. Then again, that depends on state law and whatever the judge decides.

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totoop t1_iteplpr wrote

I, for one, appreciate when people publicly shame our politicians. Maybe, just maybe, it will begin to temper the inflamed sense of self worth a lot of politicians have and dissuade them from using their political power to screw over the public for their own perverted self interests.

Politics aside, you are voting for a person to represent you in government and I would never want an ass hat like this crap bag representing me in government. Screw this guy.

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mantisMD97 t1_itesdya wrote

Go public with this, f that guy

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barsoapguy t1_iteu5zu wrote

You might need to read your cities laws on taking down trees , certain cities stipulate that you may only remove X percentage of trees on the property.

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mcChicken424 t1_itewp3d wrote

Yes you could get a survey and you'd know about this problem before you closed on the house. Money well spent.

As far as fixing the problem idk. But you'd know before you bought the house

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radioflea t1_itexrir wrote

First off, Bristol/Warren are absolutely the worst when it comes this sort of stuff. The fact that he and his wife are fighting over bushes/trees shows how petty and bored they are.

Secondly, you paid for that part of land correct? How do you recoup that money that you were charged if this doesn’t go your way?

If you decide to move you’ll sell and likely recoup the money you’ve already put down even with less square feet. Bristol/Warren are still a hot housing market.

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upriver_swim t1_itezgk1 wrote

Seems like a fraud on someone’s part. Either the previous homeowner, the senator, the town, a surveyor.

A property was bought sold with X size. Not. Minus whatever a neighbor, regardless or job, has to say.

Slightly scum bag of them to say nothing at all and just go to court. And now, considering their job, completely scum bag.

Fuck that senator. They can eat a heap of shit. It’s low brow.

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Wide_Television_7074 t1_itf1vu1 wrote

these low life RI state senators think they are above the law. if this state wasn’t a one party state this stuff would happen less, but it would still happen

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brojjenheimer t1_itf3g4e wrote

You wouldn't necessarily know about the problem from a survey. Unless there was already an indication of the possession (a fence with occupation up to it) apparent to the surveyor, the survey would only show the record line and you would have to wonder for yourself why the line on the ground (if it was marked out) didn't match with the row of bushes. A row of bushes doesn't make it onto a survey unless it's already being looked at with interest, and is being noted intentionally. Not to say that getting a survey when buying property isn't money well spent, it is, but it wouldn't necessarily alert you to this issue.

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ericivar t1_itf3gm4 wrote

Does he have receipts for those bushes? How does he prove he planted them?

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talktwomey t1_itf3tvn wrote

Had a similar situation - unfortunately, previous owners' info wasn't reliable and consistent with each other.

OP, one thing you could check if you haven't already is RI GIS satellite imagery. My neighbor's fence was over the boundary line on my side by about 20ft. I was able to prove it was placed there erroneously less than 20 years ago by comparing satellite photos. My neighbor didn't take the dispute any further after that.

You can toggle images from different years. Maybe the trees weren't planted as long ago as claimed?

https://ridemgis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=a2960d1a022e4dccaab14aa4a58f5d45

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ReverendEnder t1_itf418j wrote

I posted this to my Nextdoor account. These people suck.

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wyther t1_itf49cf wrote

Hi RI surveyor here.

Few things you 100 % need an land use attorney. I would contact the surveyor you used confirm they did a class one comprehensive boundary survey and set monuments at all of your corners. After they set your corners BUILD a fence and start cutting the grass. (Don't touch the bushes) It's your land until a court takes it away, the only way they can get it is in court so don't make it cheap or easy for them.
Lastly the article said there was a verbal agreement? Was the agreement that the bushes were the property line? Or did the previous owners just just them permission to plant the bushes? If they just gave them permission to plant that would create an easement and not support an adverse position claim.

Have your attorney see if they would accept an use easement over the land instead of trying to fully take it that way they keep the bushes and you keep you lot size and boundary line for zoning setbacks. They also save money in court.

Best of luck 🤞

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porcononconforme t1_itf5rk8 wrote

Fuck Felag, sending him an email now to let him know what a scum bag he is and his wife are. Highly encourage others to do the same. He will back down with enough pressure. FUCK HIM.

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Shanesan t1_itf82ys wrote

> you could probably have the judge force him to pay to remove all of those trees

Personally I would much rather get out the axe and slowly, methodically take down each one by hand and drag it out a while. Then have a nice bon fire on my land. :)

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NorwegianSteam t1_itfbjcf wrote

> If the prior owner ALLOWED him use the land to plant the trees, the criteria for AP is not met

But an easement may have been established, in which case they still might not be able to do anything to that part of the land.

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NorwegianSteam t1_itfbq55 wrote

> What part of the home buying process would cover that? Getting a survey? I guess people skip that if they think the area has been “stable” for a number of years.

Title insurance exists for exactly this reason. You may not get the land, but will be compensated by the insurance and they'll be the one fighting in court if it goes to that.

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ThePremiumOrange t1_itfkgfw wrote

Post to all social media with links to this post. Call in to local, state, and national news channels and/or print publications and get them to run this story. Watch how quickly this gets resolved.

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DentalFox t1_itfp7wo wrote

Just take it to court. Try to not get advice here

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SmiteyMcGee t1_itfq7i0 wrote

I'm coming from where this was crossposted in r/surveying

I think what you said is generally true however I wanted to tack something on. In most cases of adverse possession the disputed land should be very clearly occupied by the encroaching party and this is something that would most likely be shown on a survey. Whether it's gardening/landscaping, sheds, other permanent structures or a fence as you noted. If it's just empty unused space after what grounds do you have to possess it?

Also in their duties of survey a surveyor really should talk with all parties involved which would also alert them of this but I think this often doesn't happen unless as you said, there was a known boundary dispute.

Again as you said a surveyor would most likely not discover this "issue" depending how obvious this so called shrub boundary is supposed to be, but for that reason it seems like a weak AP claim

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Previous_Floor t1_itfqzyu wrote

Whether or not the law is on your side, the reality is: you're the new guy and you're disrupting a long established neighborhood in a small town. Nobody is going to take kindly to that -- including the judge, the zoning board, the neighbors, and the town residents.

Even if you win, you're going to lose. Not to mention the small fortune you'll pay in legal fees trying to fight this.

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Null_Error7 t1_itfw916 wrote

Sue sellers estate for misleading sale. Land is not as advertised.

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southclaw23 t1_itg32qt wrote

>Secondly, you paid for that part of land correct? How do you recoup that money that you were charged if this doesn’t go your way?

Let's hope that they have title insurance. Even then, that's no sure thing as a standard policy may not cover this!

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mountedpandahead t1_itg7u71 wrote

Also. Doesn't the land transferring ownership invalidate adverse possession. You can't be open and notorious and have surveyors retracing the boundary, laying out stakes, going to settlement, then starting the planning phase and .... woops it's mine.

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Freshman44 t1_itg9ubi wrote

Does he have the receipt from thirty years ago to prove he installed bushes? If not I believe it’s case closed.

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Silly_Yak_3741 OP t1_itgb2gf wrote

Im so happy see so many people have seen this and commented! Some things to point out, we have title insurance so they are helping with the fight, even though it doesn't look good at this point. One main reason i want this to be heard all over is to have this ancient law changed. I have read in some states that adverse possession does not apply to recent property sales but RI is not one of those states. Unfortunately we did everything in our power before purchasing the land to make sure what we were buying, this is something that can be brought forward at any time. I understand there is a law to be able to do something like this, it just takes a different kind of person to actually use it. we have lived in this town all of our lives, and have know the neighbors most of our lives as well. For them to do this to us while we are trying to build a home for my family is atrocious. Just another reminder that politicians like Felag all talk about being for the people of this state, and clearly could care less about them. All we want to do is use the land we purchased 3 months ago for our family and this monster is stealing that.

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muddy_moose t1_itggu2b wrote

Tacking onto this; I’m a professional in the GIS industry and would be more than happy to track down the appropriate imagery and look at it if you wanted OP. Just DM me.

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brick1972 t1_itgi92i wrote

This seems like the best answer and should be higher.

FTR the hedge looks like a clearly established boundary, even if it isn't the legal property line. Like reading OPs post I thought it was just some scrum unimproved land between the houses but if you look at the aerials or street view (from 2012) it was clearly built as a border. How it ended up so far onto OPs property is a great question. Not sure why it wasn't built at the property line.

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Swamp_yankee_ninja t1_itgk6lo wrote

Sometimes you just need to break out the chainsaw and just start cutting. You are being played by a corrupt Politician and court system. They will drain your finances and stress you out till you drop dead. This is what they want, they are Essentially evil people. Personally I would go full Marvin Heemeyer, and plow those brushes/trees to the ground, then smile and wave and say, beautiful day isn’t it neighbor?

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Grand_Profession_207 t1_itgknx7 wrote

Not a lawyer but the way the laws surrounding AP sound the sale of property doesn’t reset the clock for either side. Open and Notorious could be as simple as maintaining a garden, it doesn’t necessarily mean building a fence or something. As I said in another comment it’s possible for it to not have been initially malicious it just has to be without permission aka hostile which could be why it wasn’t until the land was surveyed that the discrepancy was noted.

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Jroiiia423 t1_ith14yc wrote

If a plant bushes in my neighbors yard will it become my yard?

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mcChicken424 t1_ithau2z wrote

Yeah you're completely right. But there's a chance the surveyor could have asked about the row of bushes and that POS senator would have said he didn't know and the surveyor might could be called as a witness. But yeah you're completely right

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Grand_Profession_207 t1_iti5dlt wrote

Paying of taxes isn’t a requirement. I think though that it is a way to build a case for obtaining a property via AP. It’s entirely possible, for a neighbor to think they’re maintaining a piece of property that is their own and paying taxes on it especially when hiring a surveyor is an unnecessary expense for most homeowners.

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kittiesmom2 t1_itmr5eb wrote

I wish I could see the pics of my property from 1939 or even the 1950's. I tried everything. I only get a current pic. When I changed to the right years & removed check from current, I don't get a real pic, just an outline of the house. Any idea how I can get it??

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SmiteyMcGee t1_itnf3se wrote

Not from RI but in my jurisdiction to qualify for AP (among other things) it has to be malicious. The senator would have had to made some use of the land (eg. Placing permanent structures)m tough to make an AP claim against a grass boulevard

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rhu-roh t1_iu6w11d wrote

As I'm sure you know, "In Rhode Island, obtaining title by adverse possession requires actual, open, notorious, hostile, continuous, and exclusive use of property under a claim of right for at least a period of ten years. Corrigan v. Nanian, 950 A.2d 1179, 1179 (R.I.2008)" If they were not paying taxes on the property, it may be presumed that they knew you and the prior owners were paying taxes on the property. If they knowingly allowed their neighbors to pay taxes on the property, then you can argue they weren't "using" the property in an open, notorious, and hostile way under a claim of right, otherwise they would have told your neighbors, "Hey, stop paying taxes on my land." In other words, you can't adversely possess property if you knowingly allow your neighbor to pay taxes on it.

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