What gives, landlords??

Submitted by Ecofolux2427 t3_zhjnpm in boston

I started my apartment search today, and aside from half of the listings being scams, I had to be told by two different landlords/companies that I "do not make enough", which is so frustrating to me and frankly insulting. I don't mind spending 50% of my take home on rent. I have 20K in my checking, 50K in my savings and 45K in my Roth, no debt, 800 credit score. I even explained this to them and they just repeat the same line "you do not qualify, you do not make enough". I even said, "I'll pay for the entire year up front" (not that I would)...the dumbasses still said no!!

What gives? How do you turn down an entire year up front? Obviously I can afford the rent!! Let me rent it!!!

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EDIT: I was trying to keep my personal life out of this conversation, but since so many have been helpful and inquired about my situation, I will share a little. My fiancee and I are in the process of getting married and it's taken quite a long time to complete this process to get her green-card, etc. It might even take another year, that's why I want to rent for the next year. Once she gets a job legally here, she will make 2-3x as much as I do, this is when we will apply for buying a house because combined incomes will qualify for so much more. Until that point, we will just live off my my salary. I hope this makes my situation a little more clear. Thank you to those have have given helpful advice.

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Comments

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Lemonio t1_izmoal3 wrote

They want to be confident you’ll be able to pay multiple years in a row including with rent increases and your salary is relatively low What the other posters said

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izmp96q wrote

Landlords have expectations of their tenants staying beyond a year if they jack up the price?? Who's to say I don't get a raise or promotion to keep up with the landlord's greed?

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Lemonio t1_izmpfzz wrote

That’s possible but probably if they’re not super confident you’ll be able to make payments they’re confident they can get someone else

If you were a landlord why would you rent to someone who makes less than someone who makes more

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izmq9dv wrote

My point is, just because you make more, doesn't mean you have more. If you were a landlord, would you rather rent your $1,500 studio to someone making 3K a month with an 800 credit score and a net worth over 100K, or rent to someone making 5K a month with a 650 credit score with barely 5K in the bank and a $500+ a month car payment?

The reason I say this is because I have several friends who make 2-3x as much as I do, but they're terrible with their money.

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lukibunny t1_izmto2w wrote

issue is that there is just so many people trying to rent that they can easily find renters

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_iznyq6o wrote

They'd happily reject both of you.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo1u10 wrote

lol so there are just SO MANY renters with high incomes and great credit scores??

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bostonhockey_80 t1_izoahr6 wrote

If they couldn't fill units with their rigid criteria - they wouldn't be so rigid. The market here is wild... Hope you can sort it out

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navymmw t1_izpc8vm wrote

You realize you’re in Boston right?

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_iznymr9 wrote

Not worth the gamble to them. They'll find someone who consistently makes more.

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dropsofjupiter1031 t1_izmxft5 wrote

Dang. You might wanna buy that piece of property and practice what you believe! I WOULD.

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RealtorInMA t1_izoi2ip wrote

"Jack up" is relative, but yes. Landlords are looking for tenants who will be long term, stable, and keep up with market rent. Most landlords will raise the rent at least enough to keep up with inflation. By your own admission, you're not likely to be a long term tenant.

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dell828 t1_iznnqkb wrote

Nobody’s gonna jack up the price after a year to the point where you can’t pay it. If you’re a good tenant they’re going to want you to stay.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izx9c0p wrote

I hear stories all the time of people's rent going up $300-600 just after a year.

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dell828 t1_izxf7at wrote

Of course. If a landlord has had an especially difficult tenant, they will jack the rent up to incentivize that person to move. On the other hand.. of you are a great tenant, the landlord will want you to stay. They may even keep the rent stable for you. There are very few landlords who jack up the rent out of greed alone. If you have a personal relationship with your landlord, and it isn’t some corporate management company, you have every expectation of being able to stay for years if you are a good tenant.

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ChildOfHeist t1_izmkpe5 wrote

You’re still relatively poor by Boston standards. Sorry. Nobody cares about your IRA and you can’t pay rent with that.

The move here is getting a co-signer or finding another landlord who is more flexible. They exist. Smalltime property owners will usually be more open than managed buildings that have strict policies.

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Ornery_Ear_5613 t1_iznru15 wrote

I am a mom and pop landlord and can attest. We are more flexible on qualifying but still, at the end of the day we don’t want a situation where you pay rent and have to live an extremely austere lifestyle because of it. Over time that is unsustainable and forces a decision to pay rent or prioritize other expenditures. It’s not good for either party. Honestly just because you are willing to spend 50% of your take home and have some savings doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. I think sharing an apt, a co-signer or moving far from your preferred location are some solid options.

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thatpurplelife t1_iznw2mc wrote

Agreed. Plus what happens if they are hit with sky high utility bills or unforseen medical or car issue? There's no room to pay everything

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some1saveusnow t1_izp1vv9 wrote

Rent starts coming in late, items start accumulating, oddly. I think people are less willing to get rid of certain items like an old bike for example cause it might be needed eventually. Eventually a delayed payment plan is requested

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ChickenNoodle519 t1_izo0240 wrote

Have you considered getting a real job instead of leeching off other peoples paychecks? Or simply charging less rent?

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_izo3k0s wrote

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you've never actually owned property.

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ChickenNoodle519 t1_izo8dj4 wrote

No shit, the landleeches keep hoarding it

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RMR6789 t1_izpgjou wrote

There are actually people that prefer to rent and not buy homes. There are also landlords who have 1 or 2 properties and still work full time jobs. Just saying…

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Wickedweed t1_iznezjq wrote

Unfortunately if they can fill the vacancy with someone more qualified, they will. There are just too many people with more money

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Hey_yall_1984 t1_izqkttb wrote

Yep. This is exactly why more housing (of all types!) needs to be built. Because “regular” apartments are in such high demand, you’re competing with people whose salary is much higher. If everyone was a similar salary to yours that applied, they wouldn’t be so picky. You’re financial situation sounds very dependable.

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dell828 t1_iznnjvo wrote

Paying a year upfront is not an incentive. Provide your landlord with Proof that you are capable of making steady monthly payments. You may be fine with spending 50% of your income on an apartment. You say that you’re good with money and You very likely can pull this off but most landlords calculate that you must make 3x more salary than rent.

Keep looking. If you’re young a lot of landlords will accept cosigner on the lease. Also don’t rule out Roommate situation. You might be able to find a great two bedroom for $3000, and with a second persons income attached to the lease that might work out for you better.

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fantakeaow t1_izojv4q wrote

Why isn’t a year upfront incentive though?

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UniWheel t1_izp1qlg wrote

>Why isn’t a year upfront incentive though?

For one thing its actually illegal

Landlord tenant law is chock full of things that the parties are prohibited from agreeing to do.

Sure, you think you are "volunteering" to pre-pay (so it's not the landlord "requiring") but if you can volunteer, why wouldn't a landlord refuse anyone who did not also volunteer that?

The law strictly limits what a landlord can accept in advance, because what they can accept is in practice what they can require.

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_izoloq3 wrote

It's indicative of someone with cash flow problems. Once they move in, it's really hard to get them out. What happens when the lease is up and the OP can't/won't pay? Evicting someone takes forever.

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fantakeaow t1_izoqqth wrote

Having a years worth of rent is indicative of cash flow problems? That doesn’t make sense to me… more than 60 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

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dell828 t1_izop3aw wrote

It could also be indicative of somebody who obtains the money illegally. Technically if it doesn’t go into a bank and goes into an apartment it’s sort of a way to launder the money.

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lukibunny t1_izmtjkf wrote

what they are afraid of is that once you lived past whatever amount you pay upfront you will stop paying rent and it will take them months to evict you.

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cooperstonebadge t1_izmlfvh wrote

I wish I only spent 50% on my rent.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izmlicj wrote

How did you get someone to rent to you?

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cooperstonebadge t1_izmzmxd wrote

I wish I had an answer for you but it was my lovely tough as nails wife who got us in here. She has her talents and I have mine. Mine are mostly useless for survival.

Edit: she says she lied to get us in.

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shapovalovts t1_izmmscg wrote

How much you make? What apartment price you are searching for?

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izmnwch wrote

I take home 3K a month, looking for a place for $1,500.

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aries_burner_809 t1_izmq1yr wrote

Do you really mean Boston because I’m seeing pretty much no true 1br apartments for $1500. Median looks like $3000. What’s your radius?

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izms4gh wrote

No not Boston. Areas like Lowell, Marlborough, Worcester, etc.

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jp112078 t1_izmyb08 wrote

Well, those areas are a different story and no offense, but lots of people in those places fuck over their landlords. You also got to remember that in MA it’s VERY difficult to evict someone so landlords need to be even more cautious. I agree with others that a co signed lease is the way to go

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minimagoo77 t1_iznj1j0 wrote

So, not actually looking in Boston? They’re not considered remotely part of Boston so this is confusing. Those towns operate a little bit different than the landlords inside Boston. Nobody’s going to care about your retirement savings. If you have somebody who can co-sign then go that route. I’m sure there’s a bit more to this story than meets the eyes. I wouldn’t blame a landlord for not taking you on yo an extent because in those areas, they’ve probably have had more than their fair share of being burned by tenants.

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Apprehensive_Text_68 t1_izqdhvl wrote

When I was making around 3k a month several years ago I could only afford living in a janky 4 bedroom with 3 roommates and no kitchen in Dorchester. You may have a chance subletting or renting a room.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo61vc wrote

Why 10 downvotes for making 3K? Are people offended I don't make more money, wtf??

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[deleted] t1_izop7d5 wrote

I think people assumed you were looking in Boston proper, where $1,500 is impossible to find.

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techdweeb321 t1_izobzwb wrote

Yeah honestly it’s not enough. I’m sorry but it’s just the reality.

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wobwobwob42 t1_iznk84g wrote

It's easier to say no to an unknown risk when you know someone with documented income will walk through the door right after you.

It's not worth the effort to them

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[deleted] t1_izn3zm2 wrote

They've been burned in the past by people in your position so it's better for them to take someone in which they can have more confidence that the rent on the property you occupy will be paid long term.

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Revolutionary-Toe789 t1_iznlh1z wrote

Another issue, aside from what has been mentioned, is that deviating from your standard rental requirements increases chances landlord faces a lawsuit. Better to set your requirements and not deviate because it’s most likely the landlord would be more likely to be a little More lenient to tenants that have a similar background to them. That’s when you start breaking the law.

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sullengirl96 t1_izo76ka wrote

My fiancé makes 6 figures on top of my modest salary and they still asked us for a co-signer 🥴 probably just because we’re young

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo86y5 wrote

Will make* please don't forget her legal income right now is $0

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sullengirl96 t1_izo8z50 wrote

What? I’m talking about myself lmao

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izpppyc wrote

Oh sorry, I thought you were pretending to be speaking from my perspective.

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No-Garlic-2664 t1_izml4t5 wrote

Yeah I can't explain that, if you offer to pay the year (or even 6 months) up front they should accept immediately.

They probably have been burned by tenants not paying rent more frequently since covid and the other monetary inflation problems and are sick of it.

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Wickedweed t1_iznep0v wrote

Or they just could tell OP was lying, they said themselves that they wouldn’t actually pay up front

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo1co7 wrote

The thing is, I could. If push came to shove I would do it, I just think there will be a better deal out there.

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SpiritedCamel_ t1_izpkc6e wrote

Paying upfront is a really, really bad idea.

Let's say your landlord ends up being horrible, breaks the law, and you need (legally) break the lease and move out early. Now you may be in a situation where you have to sue to get your pre-paid rent returned...good luck with that.

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thatpurplelife t1_iznvhk5 wrote

Landlord can accept 3 months worth of rent upfront, first, last, security. So while the offer is a good deal in theory, it doesn't really help the landlord.

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_iznzi07 wrote

I mean, the landlord could accept the entire lease amount up front and that certainly saves them the hassle of chasing people for money every month. The problem of course is what happens when the lease expires?

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thatpurplelife t1_iznzwbu wrote

They can accept but it's illegal.

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_izo03c3 wrote

No lol. It's illegal for them to require anything more than first/last/security/fee. As a tenant you're free to pay the entire lease balance up front, it's just stupid to do so.

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lukibunny t1_izpcegx wrote

Issue is, I can offer you one year upfront and you can accept it and then 11 months later i can sue you and say you required me to pay you one year upfront and then refuse to leave or pay rent. Now i am gonna live in your house rent free until you can evict me, which will take at the minimum 6 months.

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SpiritedCamel_ t1_izpknfp wrote

But in this scenario, the landlord would effectively be requiring the upfront payment because without it they would reject the tenant.

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IamUnamused t1_izodchr wrote

If you want to pay upfront, I'll let you rent my place

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Coffee_cat262 t1_iznheve wrote

Ya, landlords everywhere usually won’t let you pay more than like 40% of your income on rent, that’s pretty typical and both when I lived in Austin and here. Just curious though, there is a 401k you’re not talking about here right, I assume you only gave us the money you could potentially spend if push comes to shove for the purposes of this post. Just confused as to why you have 70k in savings and only 45k in Roth. I assume it’s because you have a fat 401k. I know this isn’t r/personalfinance but I’m curious.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo27sr wrote

I want cash in hand for buying a house. I can only withdraw up to 10K from by Roth (penalty free) as a first time home buyer. So I don't want all my money locked up.

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_izo3u78 wrote

You don't have enough for 20% down on most properties in the area. You may as well just look at an FHA loan although tbh you're probably going to remain house poor even then. You just don't make enough to afford a house here.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo5j27 wrote

My family will help out a little with the down payment and my soon to be wife will make 2x what I make. You're right though. On my salary alone there is no way I could buy a home here.

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UniWheel t1_izp1yxe wrote

>I want cash in hand for buying a house.

Then you don't want to be blowing 50% of your income on rent

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Crimson-Forever t1_iznlaxr wrote

Out of curiosity where are you looking? It's an unfortunate time for it, not very many vacancies and landlords are significantly raising rent. My landlord in Dracut raised the rent by 700 a month when my lease was up in August, it took 2 months to find a new place and I feel I lucked out as so many places had tons of applicants.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo4y9c wrote

I'm looking at Worcester and everything east of Worcester. I work mostly remote and only need to go into the office once a week.

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Crimson-Forever t1_izochmm wrote

I ended up in Lawrence 2100 for a 2 bedroom, about a mile from the commuter rail. I'm still working remote, but may have to start going back into Boston a couple days a week. It got to the point I was looking in Southern New Hampshire.

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Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo3oky wrote

I added this comment to my post, but just in case people have scrolled past it...

EDIT: I was trying to keep my personal life out of this conversation, but since so many have been helpful and inquired about my situation, I will share a little. My fiancee and I are in the process of getting married and it's taken quite a long time to complete this process to get her green-card, etc. It might even take another year, that's why I want to rent for the next year. Once she gets a job legally here, she will make 2-3x as much as I do, this is when we will apply for buying a house because combined incomes will qualify for so much more. Until that point, we will just live off my my salary. I hope this makes my situation a little more clear. Thank you to those have have given helpful advice.

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Shemsuni t1_izompih wrote

One of the safest capitals in Africa

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f0rtytw0 t1_izp0yoj wrote

> taken quite a long time to complete this process to get her green-card

Good luck, my wife finally got her interview scheduled, in 2023, 4 years after applying.

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Bostonosaurus t1_izp75y5 wrote

Unpopular opinion on this sub, but a consequence of being a very tenant friendly state is that landlords make potential renters jump through a bunch of hoops to make sure they're not stuck with 6 months of rent to cover while they wait for the eviction process. It's kinda like Harvard...hard to get into, easy to stay in.

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rebel9800 t1_izphdmo wrote

I’ve had people turn me down for the same reasons even just to rent a room. I’ve even been turned down because of the distance to my job. I really don’t have an answer for it, I think it’s something in the water.

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HebrewHammer14 t1_izniour wrote

2 things I’ve seen. 1- landlords prefer section 8 assistance because it is guaranteed income and they don’t have to worry about you not paying or losing your job or another pandemic where they struggle to pay the mortgage because not only are you not paying but they can’t evict you so they lose the property. 2-lots of corporation landlords that have tons of property in one area aren’t actually looking for tenants, they just pretend to and leave the places vacant to artificially inflate demand and inflating rent prices.

In short, you’re f*cked.

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some1saveusnow t1_izp27a4 wrote

  1. can be true but is location specific
  2. not so much
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HebrewHammer14 t1_izptr86 wrote

Boston area that are triple deckers or 2 families it’s very true. You may not want to hear it but it’s true.

Also they ladder is happening all over the country. It’s actually a hot button issue at the moment and a big reason people are fighting that big corporations shouldn’t be involved in residential housing

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Chippopotanuse t1_izopybx wrote

So, I will say this: offering to pay a whole year up front is a bit of a red flag. Even though you think it shows financial strength, it can come off to the landlord as “why is this person so desperate…why doesn’t anyone else want to rent to them?”

I’d would 100% rent to you if I had confidence that your source of income was stable. If your wages are from a w-2, the bigger concern to me is “what industry is this person in, and what’s their educational background/likely salary progression/ability to find replacement work if they are downsized?”

The fact that your fiancé is going to make a ton of money in FUTURE years is wonderful for you both. BUT…to expect a landlord to value that TODAY means you are asking them to take you on as business partners and absorb risk that she will be able to get her green-card and land that job. This is a year or so away (by your admission) and it does zero for a landlord wanting to know how the next 12 months of rent will get paid.

My advice would be to condense your elevator pitch down to only the critical stuff a landlord wants to hear. I’d lead with “I have PERFECT credit. I pay all my bills. We are educated and successful. My fiancé is anticipating a large salary bump down the road (maybe hint at her industry if it’s medicine or law, but don’t mention immigration status - it’s none of a landlords business and will only work against you) and in the meantime, we have plenty of money saved up since we have always been a frugal and financially responsible couple. We are quiet, clean professionals and this place seems perfect for what we are looking for (flattery is always nice and shows you are sincere about wanting that apartment and not indifferent/flakey/looking at thirty similar units). The rent amount and deposits aren’t a problem for us, we can meet to sign a lease and give deposits as soon as you are ready. (being able to move quickly and decisively is really important). Look forward to hearing back from you!”

I say this all because a landlord’s three biggest concerns are (in order):

  1. is this person sincere about wanting this place, or if I take it off the market…will they waste three weeks with stories about why they can’t scrap together a deposit

  2. will I get paid on time

  3. will these tenants take care of the place/be a hassle/wreck the place.

All you are trying to do when applying is prove that you are presenting zero worries about either of those three things.

I’ve been a landlord/developer for almost 30 years in almost every Boston neighborhood. This underwriting approach to tenants has never failed me. I had zero Covid deadbeats and have had 100% occupancy for well over a decade in dozens of units.

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tempelhof_de t1_izn67dt wrote

Have you considered buying a home? In RI you can easily purchase a 2-3 BR single family for 300-400K. Might be worth looking into even with the commute.

−1

Ecofolux2427 OP t1_izo1zne wrote

Yes I have, and buying a house is the plan, but I need to rent for the next year.

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deisjj t1_iznxywu wrote

FYI it's illegal for them to accept a year up front. They can only take first last security and broker fee. Which is a lot already.

−2

Wtf_is_this1234 t1_iznzral wrote

No, it's not illegal lol. It's just unrealistic because most people can't/don't want to put up that much up front.

It is illegal for them to make you pay more than first/last/security/fee up front.

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RealtorInMA t1_izojzgf wrote

So in practical terms, what is the difference? If OP says, "lease to me and I'll pay up front," but landlord can't enforce a document that says this, because that would be a requirement. they have to sign and accept a standard lease and hope op pays up. Can't pursue eviction until the tenant is late based on the written agreed upon rent schedule.

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_izoktie wrote

Sure, and that's why most landlord don't want to bother with the hassle. That said, if OP were offered a lease, signed it and then wrote a check for the full balance of the lease- there's nothing illegal about it- it's just stupid.

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RealtorInMA t1_izolc3u wrote

Point being, landlord legally cannot use it as a screening criteria, which is why OP cannot use it to circumvent LL's screening criteria.

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Wtf_is_this1234 t1_izolia8 wrote

Be that as it may, there may be some small time landlords who are willing to take the chance, but as OP is finding, they generally consider it odd and don't want to take it into consideration.

0